Breaking Dawn (The Twilight Saga, #4) Breaking Dawn discussion


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Frozen body?

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Stevie because edward injected her with the venom/ bit her AFTER he delivered the baby. The venom healed her whole body...any trauma that had been done to it was repaired.


Shannon I think he ate that part when he was trying to get Renesmee out. *giggle*


message 3: by SR (new) - rated it 1 star

SR Deus ex machina. Do not ask questions.


message 4: by Kat (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kat Helgeson Bella HERSELF is a deus ex machina.


Shannon Helkat, that's food for thought. The baby obviously is, but I honestly hadn't considered Bella in that light. Would you mind fleshing out that perspective for me? I'm curious.


message 6: by Toni (new) - rated it 1 star

Toni LOL @ Helkat14

And truth be told, Bella is a deus ex machina if you really think about it. Further proof that the Mary Sue is the bane of plot and logic.


message 7: by Kat (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kat Helgeson Sure thing, Shannon:

First, just to ensure we're all understanding the same thing by the term:
"A deus ex machina (lat. IPA: [ˈdeːus eks ˈmaːkʰina], literally "god from a/the machine")[1] is an improbable contrivance in a story characterized by a sudden unexpected solution to a seemingly intractable problem...Thus, the term "deus ex machina" came to mean any inferior plot device that expeditiously solves the conflict of a narrative." -Wikipedia

End of the book. All the good vampires are on one side of the line, and all the bad(?) ones are on the other. It's time for the showdown of the ages, right?

Psych! Magic!Bella suddenly has the unexpected power to stop them from touching each other. Sonofagun!

Or how about this: Turning into a vampire will cause Bella to be crazy and bloodlusty, right?

Nope, Psych again! Magic!Bella can turn into a vampire and be normal, basically for no more compelling reason than because she WANTS to!


Shannon Ahhhhhh. I'm with you, now. I was applying the concept to Bella's character throughout the series, not just in Breaking Dawn. I got sidetracked. Thanks.


Leslie It is a really easy way to lose all that baby fat. I haven't done it yet...and my son's going into 3rd grade! A few hours of pain and you're a hot chick!! Wow! Oops...I guess you're a vampire, too, so that might not take business from Weight Watchers and Jenny Craig!


message 10: by Kat (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kat Helgeson Leslie - or it might. Apparently being a vampire is teh kewlest. You can live forever, have superpowers, and be all sparkly-glowy! And if you plan things right, you won't eat your family either!


message 11: by Lori (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori Ah - the dream life.


message 12: by niamh (new) - rated it 1 star

niamh I wondered about the hole baby belly thing as well and thought of all the other things that could have gone wrong , what if she hadn't shaved her legs for a while , or her arm pits , heehee.

but she did grow 4 inches during her change so her body really wasn't frozen in time as MS says , wish the author would make up her mind . no babies to babies , werewolves to not really werewolves , love is about choice to hahaha you've imprinted to a freaky baby no choice for you.


message 13: by Lori (new) - rated it 4 stars

Lori She grew 4 inches? What? Did I miss something?


message 14: by Toni (new) - rated it 1 star

Toni but she did grow 4 inches during her change

Wait, WHAT?!


message 15: by niamh (last edited Aug 23, 2008 01:55PM) (new) - rated it 1 star

niamh yeah , in the first book bella says she is 5foot 4 but after the change she is 5 8' . nearly sure . i would quote but i dont have the books any more .



message 16: by Toni (new) - rated it 1 star

Toni I have the PDF but I had officially given up and do not want to glance. >.<

I can't believe people are still refusing to call Bella out as the Mary Sue that she is.


message 17: by Shannon (last edited Aug 23, 2008 08:11PM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Shannon Toni,

I'll call Bella a Mary Sue. :) I read the Midnight Sun leak, and I thought that perhaps seeing Bella from Edward's POV would help flesh her character out a little more. I assumed being inside his mind would add depth to Bella's personality because I would experience how and why he falls in love with her. Strangely, she still seems like a cardboard character. His character, on the other hand, is very fascinating. But, I'm not sure he even knows why he's in love with Bella. One day, she's the bane of his existence, and the next day he's inexplicably in love with her.


message 18: by Kat (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kat Helgeson Toni- who's refusing to do that? I'll totally back you up on Bella being a Mary Sue!


message 19: by Toni (new) - rated it 1 star

Toni @ Helkat14

I believe the TwilightMom's site or some other fan site posted a "Manefesto" in which members were not allowed to address Bella as a Mary Sue in any way, since it was detrimental to the character's image or something.

I was like, "Denial, much?"


message 20: by Kat (new) - rated it 2 stars

Kat Helgeson Hold on, the twilight moms aren't ALLOWED to say anything bad about Bella?

That's a little intense. What happens to them if they do?

Can anyone point out to me a place where I can read this manifesto?


Shannon I think it was the Lexicon that posted the Manifesto, but TwiMoms has rules against character bashing, etc. You can't call Bella a Mary Sue and you can't even say that you hate BD. They have their Breaking Dawn forum divided up into three threads: likers, dislikers, and those on the fence. No debates between the groups. It's sort of ridiculous.


message 22: by Toni (new) - rated it 1 star

Toni Shannon, I believe you are right and it is the Lexicon. I don't know the link to the "manifesto", but I did read it and it was pretty ridiculous. XD


Shannon Helkat and Toni,

Here are the rules on TwiMoms Breaking Dawn Forum: http://twilightmomsforums.freeforums..... I find this one particularly ridiculous, because no one is allowed more than one post in the BD forum. There is NO debate or discussion whatsoever.

Here's the Lexicon's philosophy, part of which I think is the "manifesto": http://www.twilightlexiconforum.com/v....

You get the idea......




message 24: by Toni (new) - rated it 1 star

Toni Yeah, here is what they said:

"Bella is not to be referenced as a Mary-Sue, nor are any of the other characters in the series. If you think that, you are on the wrong website. There is no character bashing on this site. Stating “Alice’s visions and perkiness really annoy me.” Isn’t character bashing. Stating, “pleez let’s get over failcob, the demon spawn, and the sperminator.” is character bashing. If you think something is unrealistic than articulate that, don’t just cop-out on the Mary-Sue moniker."

Someone should tell them it's not impossible to "articulate" the dozens of reasons why Bella is a Sue.


message 25: by Penny (new) - rated it 1 star

Penny Yeah, weird how they allow people to bash ACTUAL PEOPLE that don't like the books but you can't say anything about the fictional characters.




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