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Buddy Reads > Wives & Daughters, Ch. 19-24

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message 1: by SarahC (new)

SarahC (sarahcarmack) | 1424 comments Post your comments for this section of the book. Spoilers for this section of the reading may appear here.


message 2: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) Chap. Nineteen-Cythia's arrival, this seemed to be a fun chapter while Molly is anticipating Cynthia's arrival, she is hurriedly getting things ready. Chapt.20 Seems like Mr. Preston shares some kind of past with Mrs. Kirkpatrick and Cynthia. Chap. 21-Osbourne Hamley, I think Mrs. Kirkpatrick had him picked out as a possible husband for Cynthia. Osbourne has a french wife hidden away in the countryside, of which Squire Hamley knows nothing about.


message 3: by Silver (new)

Silver Yes I quite enjoyed the chapter of finally getting to meet Cynthia. I have to say she turned out to be quite different than I had imagined, but thus far I am liking her. And I do sense something ominous in the mix with this Mr. Preston character.


message 4: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) I think Cynthia is good for Molly, and even though Molly whines, Cynthia seems like a good foil against her mother, and she seems to mind herself in front of Mr. Gibson.


message 5: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) I don't know where the other chapters are for this book, but I am well past the above chapters. I am finding that Cynthia is quite the flirt, she apparently got herself engaged to Mr. Preston, and that is why she hasn't wanted to make it official with she and Roger. At this point, Molly is now returning the money that Cynthia borrowed and that is how she got in the mess with Mr. Preston. Anyway, that is all for now.


message 6: by SarahC (new)

SarahC (sarahcarmack) | 1424 comments Hi, Robin, I thought since you were leading the discussion, you might be posting the continuing threads. If you had rather, I can post them. (I posted these first few when I couldn't get in contact with you that day.)


message 7: by SarahC (new)

SarahC (sarahcarmack) | 1424 comments Robin, I posted the continuing threads just then -- I had a little free time and thought it might help out.


Marialyce (absltmom, yaya) Yes Cynthia is a surprise to me as well. The girls seem fated to give Mrs. Gibson a run for the money. I like how Cynthia resents her mother for sending her away at such an early age. I resent her too! Poor Mr. G seems to have gotten quite a winner in his new wife. I am about to begin Chapter21.


message 9: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) Sarah, I was caught up in the earthquake, tsunami disaster, my brother is in Japan, and I have been otherwise detained, in trying to contact him. I am not moderating this. I just wanted to read and comment about the book.


message 10: by SarahC (new)

SarahC (sarahcarmack) | 1424 comments Sorry, Robin, there was a misunderstanding. I hope you find your brother to be safe.


message 11: by Marialyce (absltmom, yaya) (last edited Mar 14, 2011 04:49PM) (new)

Marialyce (absltmom, yaya) What a shame that the Hemley family seems to be falling apart without it's matriarch. The boys especially Osborne seems to be separating themselves from their distraught father.

I do think it is quite something how Mrs. Gibson is trying to "throw" her natural daughter into Osborne's path not being aware that Osborne is taken. There seems to be though a bit of a spark between Cynthia and the two men although Osborne should certainly be a bit reticent about establishing a relationship with the Gibsons. Was there a bit of jealousy at the end of chapter24? Perhaps the girls will not remain such good friends for long with the advent of the men.


message 12: by Deborah (new)

Deborah (deborahkliegl) | 923 comments I've really been enjoying the book and the discussions. I, too, was struck by the disintegration of the Hemley family by the lose of Mrs. Hemley. It's true for a lot of families that the women hold it all together and it falls apart with their deaths. I think it's an excellent way for the author to show how important women are/were even when their roles had been so limited.


message 13: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) I also see that the women did "hold" up the family, and played a central part in the upbringing of the children, and Molly seems to do her share in helping with her father.I do see the manipulative ways in which Mrs. Gibson does think that Osborne and Cynthia would be a good match. She seems to insinuate herself too much into Cynthia's business.


message 14: by Silver (last edited Mar 14, 2011 09:03PM) (new)

Silver Robin wrote: "I also see that the women did "hold" up the family, and played a central part in the upbringing of the children, and Molly seems to do her share in helping with her father.I do see the manipulative..."

In that day and age young girls did not have a lot of personal freedom and independent. And it would have been looked upon as the duty of the mother to attempt to secure a good match for her daughter. So Mrs. Gibson's seemingly manipulative and insinuating herself into Cynthia's business is what would ultimately be expected of any mother at that period of time.

In retrospect. Mrs Gibson trying to put Cynthia in Osbone's way and try and bring them together is not much different from Mr. Gibson intervening with Mr. Coxe and sending Molly away without even letting her see the note or explain to her what it was or why she was being sent away. Though we may view what he did as being with good intention he still read a private letter directed to his teenage daughter.

In a way it is interesting how our modern minds view Mr. Gisbon's actions in a more private light than we view Mrs. Gibson trying to fix her daughter into what she views as a favorable marriage.

It would have been considered improper for a girl herself to try to make a match completely on her own. It would have made her look too forward.


message 15: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) I guess we are looking at it with 21st century sensibilities. I think in those days girls and young women were more demure and without acquaintances introducing them, they probably would not attempt it on their own. But I can recall that a male parent wanting to shield his daughter in this day and age, it still happens to some extent.


message 16: by Deborah (new)

Deborah (deborahkliegl) | 923 comments I think why I view Mr. Gibson's as different from Mrs. Gibson's is because I feel their underlying motive is different. I understand that Mrs. Gibson' would be instrumental in making a match for her daughter, and that she would need to make sure it was a good match. Yet, I feel that she's way too focused on status. She's focused on what the Hemley family stands for instead of the fact that they have no way to support her daughter. Mr. Gibson on the other hand was worried that the match would not be a good one for his daughter and acted out of protection. He seemed to feel that the apprentice could not provide for his daughter and that they both did not have the maturity for marriage.


message 17: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) That is the similar view that I take. One is for protection and the other is for advancement in the social strata. That is why she is always talking about the Lord Cumnor, Lady Harriet, etc.


message 18: by Silver (new)

Silver Robin wrote: "That is the similar view that I take. One is for protection and the other is for advancement in the social strata. That is why she is always talking about the Lord Cumnor, Lady Harriet, etc."

But than most marriages made at that period of time were with the hope of advancing the status of the daughter. Though because Mrs Gibson was formerly a governess society might view her as "over achieving."

It is little different than the cases of the Hamley's. Mr. Hamley as much as he liked Molly did not want his sons particularly Osborne to form a romantic attachment too her because she was of no social account and was seen as being beneath Osborbe's status.


message 19: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) No, he thinks Roger would be a better match with Molly, he keeps pressing that point. Is this because Osborne is the first born, and he inherits, while Roger is seen as not as good. This to me didn't turn out the way Squire Hamley envisioned, since Roger went on to Africa, and became notable, while Osborne, did not.


message 20: by Silver (new)

Silver Robin wrote: "No, he thinks Roger would be a better match with Molly, he keeps pressing that point. Is this because Osborne is the first born, and he inherits, while Roger is seen as not as good. This to me didn..."

It was becasue Osborne was the first born as well as the fact that they thought he would have such a brillaint career and go one to do such remarkable things. It was Hamley's idea that Osborne should marry a wife that comes from wealth as well as high social status.

Initially he did not want an attachement with Roger and Molly becasue he did not think Roger would do much with his life and Roger would have to work, and so he did not think Roger would be fincially capable of marrying until he was able to find work in which to support himself.


message 21: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) I read that he did want a match with Molly and Roger, can't find the exact page, but he alludes to it, and I think Molly has some feelings for Roger.


message 22: by Silver (new)

Silver Robin wrote: "I read that he did want a match with Molly and Roger, can't find the exact page, but he alludes to it, and I think Molly has some feelings for Roger."

When Molly first came to visit him I know he said he did not want a match for either of his sons with Molly, maybe later in the book he changed his mind.


message 23: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) But once he saw how much of a help she was as far as a companion for his wife, he saw the goodness in her.


message 24: by Deborah (new)

Deborah (deborahkliegl) | 923 comments Robin wrote: "I read that he did want a match with Molly and Roger, can't find the exact page, but he alludes to it, and I think Molly has some feelings for Roger."

I read the same thing. I think we're leaving out that the estate was entailed which means that Squire Hamley had no control over who gets the estate. Since they had no money left, he needed Osbourne to marry somebody who would bring money into the estate to keep it running. He couldn't sell any part of it due to the entailment.

Also I think after Molly took care of his wife and the family through the tough times of her illness, he saw what type of person she is plus he saw how interested she was in Roger's work so she became acceptable to him. He didn't need to worry about how much money Molly would bring because Roger would not get the estate.


message 25: by SarahC (new)

SarahC (sarahcarmack) | 1424 comments Hamley I think really did accept Molly as a daughter figure almost from the beginning of their relationship. I think that he truly wishes that Molly could be his daughter-in-law, but in reality does not want her for either of his sons, due to her low birth and no money. So much of Hamley's story is about his struggle between his heart and his stewardship to this ancient land he holds -- that's a large part of the story which I really enjoy. And the story between him and his sons. That is why I always think it is funny that the novel was called Wives and Daughters -- it could have been called Fathers and Sons as far as I am concerned!


message 26: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) or could have been called people and their relationships, so much of this story is intertwined in others and I really enjoy all the characters, from the Brownings and how they knew that Molly was not scandalized and how the one sister did not want to hear Molly's name being dragged into the mud, and they always make reference that she was Mary's daughter, Mr. Gibson's deceased wife. It also could have been called Loyalties. It bespoke of everyone's loyalties to one another.


message 27: by Deborah (new)

Deborah (deborahkliegl) | 923 comments It does indeed, and also reflects the strong limitations on each person by what they feel is deemed appropriate by "society" or even what restrictions there are to all legally.


message 28: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) I agree with you totally on the above, they were constricted by their class in society as well. What is good for one class is not for another. Thank goodness we don't have that nowadays. But their is the rich, the middle class and the poor.


message 29: by Deborah (new)

Deborah (deborahkliegl) | 923 comments And limited by law with all the entailments, etc.


message 30: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) and that too.


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