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General SF&F discussion > Dance with Dragons

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message 1: by Shel, Moderator (new)

Shel (shel99) | 2175 comments Mod
A release date has FINALLY been announced for A Dance with Dragons! The article says that Martin isn't quite finished writing it yet, but that they're confident enough that he'll be done in time to release the book in July.

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2011/03/set-...

I probably won't read it right away...I think I'll end up waiting until the series is finished to go on with it, because I've forgotten enough of what happened before to need to re-read the earlier books, and that's quite an undertaking...don't want to have to do it AGAIN when the next few come out. But thought I'd share the news anyway. Woo!


message 2: by Paul (new)

Paul  Perry (pezski) | 218 comments even though i'm the same - i haven't even read the last one, there's just too many plot threads and characters to keep track of over such a long gap - i can't help going squeeeeeeeeee!


message 3: by Stefan, Group Founder + Moderator (Retired) (new)

Stefan (sraets) | 1667 comments Mod
I've lost interest. There are too many years going by between each volume, and IMO the quality of the last 2 books hasn’t been as high as that of the first 2. Because of those reasons, I will only really get excited when he announces the release date for the final book in the series. It’s sad, because I loved this series so much that I pre-ordered book 3 from the UK, back when it was released there a few months earlier than here in the US. I guess the final drop came when he announced at a signing for the last book that DANCE was practically written and he expected to be back for a signing of that book within a year or so. Since then, lots of anthologies, several Wild Cards books, an HBO series – and still no DANCE. So, I think I’ll wait until he’s done with the whole thing. Plenty of other books to read until then.


message 4: by Dave (new)

Dave I'm very excited about this. I just finished my first read of the series less then a month ago and i felt like a kid when i saw a new book would be out this summer.

I did feel things dropped off with A feast for crows a little, but I thought the third book was storm of swords was the best of the series.


message 5: by Christine (new)

Christine | 594 comments When I started reading this series, I thought it was a trilogy; imagine how I felt when I learned it was longer and not yet completed. I'm not sure I remember enough to read the next book (is there yet another one after this one???)


message 6: by Chris (new)

Chris  (haughtc) Christine wrote: "When I started reading this series, I thought it was a trilogy; imagine how I felt when I learned it was longer and not yet completed. I'm not sure I remember enough to read the next book (is there..."

2 more, actually...


message 7: by Stefan, Group Founder + Moderator (Retired) (new)

Stefan (sraets) | 1667 comments Mod
Unless he changes his mind again... After all, the last book and the next one were supposed to be one big book until it got too long...


message 8: by Ken (new)

Ken (ogi8745) | 1348 comments Stefan
I am with you on this. I love the first 3 books. I refused to read the last one. I am an idiot and bought it and its sitting on my shelf, unread.

Apparently he has written himself into some sort of corner and was having trouble getting out of it.
Of course its no excuse when you say its almost done and 4 years on still nothing. It will be interesting to see if this can be finished up in two more novels.


message 9: by Rachel (new)

Rachel Cotterill (rachelcotterill) Having heard so much about the waiting, I just decided not to start reading this series until it's actually finished. I've got plenty of other things to read meanwhile :)


message 10: by Deedee (last edited Mar 04, 2011 12:22PM) (new)

Deedee | 136 comments amazon.com sent me an email stating the following:
A Dance with Dragons (Song of Ice and Fire) (Hardcover)
"This title will be released on July 12, 2011. "


message 11: by Joel (last edited Mar 04, 2011 02:59PM) (new)

Joel (joelevard) Supposedly the plotting problem he was having will be out of the way with the completion of ADWD, and it should be relatively smooth sailing from here. He estimated two years between the last two books in an interview I listened to last year.

We'll see how that goes, but I'm optimistic. The waiting gets easier the older I get and the faster times moves, so I'd just as soon not turn around to discover that all the books are out, because it means I'll be that much older.


message 12: by Stefan, Group Founder + Moderator (Retired) (new)

Stefan (sraets) | 1667 comments Mod
He said he'd have Dance finished in one year at a signing for A Feast for Crows, so if he says 2 years between the last 2 books... well, I have no confidence in those statements. At this rate, I'll be glad if he's done with this series by the time my 3 year old heads to college.


message 13: by Joel (new)

Joel (joelevard) true, but the problem he was dealing with was still there at that point. basically he wrote all the parts of ADWD that weren't affected too much by the elimination of the five-year time jump and those wound up being released as AFFC. fixing the timeline issues in ADWD was what apparently took so long to work out. going by comments he has made here and there, he basically threw out and rewrote the entire thing multiple times. and it IS a really, really long book.

don't get me wrong, i'm hardly a martin apologist. nearly six years between the two halves of "book four/five" was waaaay too long.


message 14: by Shel, Moderator (new)

Shel (shel99) | 2175 comments Mod
Hope you're right, Joel, because I'd really like to finish reading the series sometime in the next decade ;)


message 15: by Marty (new)

Marty (martyjm) | 310 comments Put me in the column with the others who lost interest due to the time lag.


message 16: by Kathi, Moderator & Book Lover (new)

Kathi | 3153 comments Mod
I'm just glad I never started. I'm buying the books as they come out but won't start reading till the series is done. There have been times when that has been very hard because of my friends all raving about the books, but with this series, it's worked out well that I didn't start. I'd have to reread everything anyway 'cuz my memory is so poor.


message 17: by Jacen (new)

Jacen | 11 comments Marty if I was a cynic I'd say Martin was trying to use the HBO series to refill refill his pews with the positions left by you and many others. That's IF I was cynic... which of course I'm not...


message 18: by Joel (last edited Mar 05, 2011 03:47PM) (new)

Joel (joelevard) he has always been fairly open with his fans about his progress on the book via his blog/interviews/etc. he is nothing if not candid about the delays. i think he got to a point where the book was finished enough to be announced and he wanted it to be out as soon as possible.


message 19: by Marty (new)

Marty (martyjm) | 310 comments Jacen and it might work that way!


message 20: by Shel, Moderator (new)

Shel (shel99) | 2175 comments Mod
gotta say, the hubby and I are contemplating signing up for HBO just for the new series... :)

then again, with the baby arriving in 6 weeks who's going to have time/energy to watch HBO? Guess it wouldn't hurt us to wait for the DVD...


message 21: by Renee (new)

Renee (elenarenee) | 82 comments I have to agree with Stefan. I felt cheated by the last book. It hardly featured any of my favorite chars. I will read the book eventually but I will wait my turn for the library copy.

I cannot reward him with my one hard copy purchase of the month. The economy has me limited


message 22: by Mach (new)

Mach | 15 comments Renee wrote: "I have to agree with Stefan. I felt cheated by the last book. It hardly featured any of my favorite chars. I will read the book eventually but I will wait my turn for the library copy.

I cannot..."


The last book is half of a Dance with Dragons, he had to many pages and povs, so he split the book up, characters like Daenerys, Jon and Arya will be on the next book.


message 23: by Joel (new)

Joel (joelevard) the split between books didn't really bother me, even if the wait to get the "second half" was waaay too long. i actually wound up liking the focus on the less prominent characters that AFFC allowed. never thought i would like brienne.


message 24: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Stefan wrote: "I've lost interest. There are too many years going by between each volume, and IMO the quality of the last 2 books hasn’t been as high as that of the first 2. Because of those reasons, I will only..."

I feel exactly the same way. I loved #1, liked #2, haven't read #3 or #4, waiting for #5 which I thought was the last one. When I found out it's not, I decided phoo. At the rate he's writing them, I'll be 90 when the last one comes out :D! I was disappointed with the snail's pace of the plot in #2. It hardly got past where #1 ended. Engh.


message 25: by Ken (new)

Ken (ogi8745) | 1348 comments Sandra, he always planned for 6 books, now 7 with the splitting of Feast and Dragons.

With all the flack Martin has gotten over the last 7 or 8 years with his tardiness, and with the completion of Dance I certainly hope he actually has the where with all to actually stick to his plan.

I think a lot of the blame should fall on his editor and publisher for not keeping a tighter reign on him.


message 26: by mark (new)

mark monday (happy-end-of-the-world) | 114 comments i hope i am alive long enough to read the end of this series! it sure would be nice if martin finished it before 12/12/12.

i am looking forward to the HBO series. it looks well-cast, especially Tyrion.


message 27: by Mach (new)

Mach | 15 comments Sandra aka Sleo wrote: I feel exactly the same way. I loved #1, liked #2, haven't read #3 or #4, waiting for #5 which I thought was the last one..."

The third book is the best one by the way, atleast i thought so.


message 28: by Renee (new)

Renee (elenarenee) | 82 comments Sorry but he should have split it with all the chars. It left me feeling cheated having to read only about the chars I would rather have skimmed.


He could have included all and left some of what he did for other books. I spent money for a book expecting to find my friends. Instead it was others


message 29: by Ron (new)

Ron (ronbacardi) | 302 comments I'm starting to feel rather smug about abandoning the first book half-way through, so thanks, you brave ones who kept going.


message 30: by Christine (new)

Christine (chrisarrow) Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but here goes. If you have On Demand (in the US at least) and access to HBO, there are extras/previews up for the HBO series based on the series.

Everyone looks very blonde I must say, except for Sean Bean. He looks awesome as always.


message 31: by Ken (new)

Ken (ogi8745) | 1348 comments I was chatting with a writer friend on Friday and she brought up a couple points

1. The quarterly updates about when the next book is to be published. Apparently this has more to do with marketing and publishing budgets than with Martin himself.
2. Martin has never been a quick writer, Previous to a Game of Thrones he has only published 2 or 3 books in 10 years. I mentioned that Thrones and Clash were published pretty close togather and she brought up a good point, maybe he had most of them written so the completions came quicker. Of course this does not explain the 5 year wait for Dance.


message 32: by Joel (new)

Joel (joelevard) he's said enough in the interim to suss out an explanation. basically he wrote the first three books of the series intending for there to be a five-year gap between book three and book four (at this time the entire series was supposed to be six books I believe).

after writing a large chunk of then-book four, he realized that the five-year gap wasn't going to work -- he was being forced to summarize a lot of backstory through dialogue. instead he decided to chuck everything he'd written and start over, eliminating the time jump.

this created other issues, however, apparently having to do with timelines of what various characters are at the end of book three versus where they had to get for the story to commence (because martin writes POV chapters, the story will develop differently based on who is the witness to a particular event).

this explains the long gap between ASOS and AFFC -- he had to rewrite the book, then figure out that the characters in AFFC were't affected by the plot problems he was having, allowing that book to be released first. obviously clearing up the problems with the rest of the timeline took a lot longer than he expected, and he has apparently written, thrown out, and re-written hundreds of pages in search of a solution, which he thankfully appears to have found.

the hope (and he has stated in interviews) is that with the timeline problems out of the way, he will be able to resume a faster pace with the final two books, perhaps delivering them at two-year intervals.

i think that's optimistic, but we'll see.


message 33: by Ken (new)

Ken (ogi8745) | 1348 comments Well apparently the manuscript is in the hands of the publisher

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2011/04/a-da...


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