Dark Swan series by Richelle Mead [SPOILERS!]

[Pamela, Moderatrix]

I just finished Iron Crowned literally five minutes ago, and to save my poor fiancé from listening to my ranting about a book he's never read, I had to run here.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaargh! How?! How does Richelle Mead manage to rile me up so much with her books?! I had the same reaction when I got to the end of the fifth Georgina Kincaid book, where I want to stomp around and demand that she finish the story now because OMG, how can she leave me hanging like that?!

I'm not a big fan of Kiyo. I liked him at first, but after the business with Leith and especially his devotion to Maiwenn, I soured on him. So I spent half the book pissed off, but then the jerk managed to worm his way back into my affection, and then... the end! OH MY GOD. I knew I should've kept hating him!

Dorian, on the other hand, I like, even though I know he's power-hungry and not terribly scrupulous. I dunno why I like him so much, but I definitely trust him more than I trust Kiyo. Kiyo is deceptive, but he sugarcoats it. With Dorian, you know he's probably scheming, but at the same time, I do think he cares very much for Eugenie.

I'm not sure what to make about the end of Iron Crowned. Despite my ranting, it's left me kind of speechless.

So what did you think of Iron Crowned?

[Leslie Bhargava]

It was my least favorite of Mead's books. I thought Eugenie was almost to the point of unlikable in this book. Not to mention all the men in her life... including Roland. I am a really big fan of the author and this book doesn't change my opinion on that but it was definitely weak writing imho.

[Amanda]

I felt the same way! I really really loathe Kiyo now. Dorian I've loved from the start and I am really enjoying the way his relationship with Eugenie is developing into something that seems to be based on real feelings rather than lust and power-lust.
I do think that having strong feelings for the characters is what really makes me enjoy the books. If I felt ok about all of them, it would be pretty boring.
I can't wait for the next one to come out!

[Suz]

I gave the book 2 stars. Hated it, thought it was anticlimactic after the first two, that the writing was slow and boring for the first half of the book, the characters are unlikeable, and the end isn't a cliff hanger, it's a sloppy non-ending that just stops as if she reached her word count limit and decided not to write anymore.

Eugenie is so unlikeable and dysfunctional that I'm not sure I can stomach another book. She is the walking epitome of everything I dislike about chic lit, of everything I think gives chic lit a bad name.

You realize this on-again, off-again, never really growing or learning anything, giving up everything for the sake of insipidly obsessing about boys is typical of all of Read's heroines, right? They fight (or in Georgina's case sleuth) but they are not strong at all. They fight to avoid themselves and that essentially makes them despicable. Georgina (if I gagged over her whining about Seth anymore I would have hurled), Rose (can you say "inability to just say "I need more time" and flip-flopping like a fish out of water) and now Eugenie (the worst over all).

Honestly, watching Eugenie bed hop between destructive and abusive men to avoid dealing with her daddy approval issues was painful. Her step father raises her to blindly hate and kill without thought one of her own races, with her mother's approval, and when she decides to try to think outside of the box a bit her family abandons her. Nooooo...that's not evidence of any kind of on going, life long abuse. And Eugenie whines about it, feels responsible for their disapproval, and goes back and forth into the beds of guys she blindly gives her power and authority away to (even though she's stronger than both of them combined magically). The longer she goes on the more she is manipulated - with her cooperation because god forbid she should actually decide to see what's there instead of avoiding what she doesn't want to see - such that she actually regresses into deeper stupidity as she moves through the story, instead of maturing or growing.

In short, I may have enjoyed the first two Dark Swan books, but I hated Iron Crowned and I now hate Eugenie Markham. It will take a lot to get me to care again.

[Pamela, Moderatrix]

I'm frustrated with Eugenie's lack of ability to make her own damn decisions and her habit of letting the guys push her around, but I still like the overarching story. I keep holding onto hope that she'll grow a spine and tell both guys to back off (I'm doing the same thing with Georgina, so yeah, there is definitely a pattern with Mead's heroines).

[Pamela, Moderatrix]

Oh, and I thought of another complaint.

The quest to get the Iron Crown? Whaaaaaaat? Was it just me, or was that WAY too quick and easy? I was expecting some serious danger, but instead they fought giant snakes, walked through fiery fan blades, and fought a lich for ten minutes. And ta dah! She got the crown.

The more I think about it, the more the book feels rushed, like Mead had to pound it out to meet a deadline and didn't get enough time to revise and improve. Actually... it feels like my first drafts, where I race to get the characters from point A to point B without a whole lot of obstacles.

[Hana]

I've always been a bit wary of Kiyo and this book just shows us how much of a a$$ he was. It's like he's Maiwens stray dog or something. Seriously, I don't think the guys made an independant decision in the whole series! That said, Eugenie was sooo frustrating throughout the book. The amount of annoyingly idiotic decisions she made just pi$$ed me off soo much. Don't get me wrong, I love the girl, but she needs to grow a backbone and stop relying on the men in her life soo much. (Felt sooooooo good 2 get that off my chest) :D

[Pamela, Moderatrix]

Maybe I'm Machiavellian, but I kept thinking that she should threaten Dorian with the Iron Crown. I mean, seriously. He thinks she's tough and all that stuff, but he still thinks he's the one in charge. Eugenie could have easily put him in his place by waving the crown at him. Of course, that would have definitely put a damper on any future romantic interactions, haha, but it would have been great to see Eugenie get the upper hand.

The fact that she refused to do the logical thing (i.e. threaten Katrice with the crown) just because Dorian said she should do it annoyed me. It's one thing to be pissed at him. It's another to ignore good advice just because you're angry. I mean, for heaven's sake, she's a queen! She needs to start acting like one.

[Hana]

TDF Pamela wrote: "Maybe I'm Machiavellian, but I kept thinking that she should threaten Dorian with the Iron Crown. I mean, seriously. He thinks she's tough and all that stuff, but he still thinks he's the one in ..."

TOTALLY agree with that. She hardly acts like a queen who has power over a whole land, no make that 2 now. It would be hilarious to see her wave the crown at Dorian, but i don't think she'd do it (what with her situation, and Dorian being the only help she has).

[Suz]

She's too preoccupied with pining over the next piece of tube steak that throws her over.

Honestly, she needs a therapist to work out her daddy issues.

[Lea]

I THINK THOSE BABIES ARE DORIANS!!!!! Atleast I really hope so.... they cant be Kiyo's... they just cant be!!! I loved this book in the begining, wanted to throw it across the room in the middle, then it ended with my heart aching...... I DONT WANT TO WAIT ANOTHER YEAR TO GET ANSWERS!!!! Help.... give me some theories to ease my mind!

[Cindy]

I love love love this series but this book was so FRUSTRATING!!!!
I mean when Eug slept with kiyo without even talkin to Dorian first I just wanted to bitchslap her!!! WTF was she thinking 'oh in my head we're broken up already'... Yeah that counts right?
I see what y'all r sayin bout her 'men' issues... I don't so much mind her being flawed...it makes her more real. I just wish she would stop and think sometimes instead of just acting. And stop worrying about being evil! Jeeeze!
I wasn't surprised by kiyo's actions, I haven't trusted him from the beginning. Team Dorian all the way baby :)
I thought the wait for this book was long.... I'm gonna go crazy for a whole frickin year!

[Jessica]

Lea I totally agree they are Dorians! Remember when they had really kinky sex and he touched his own juice and then touched Eug.

I have a feeling this book was a filler. She is setting things up for the remainder of the series. Just my opinion, but I could be completely wrong.

[Alethea]

I am currently reading Iron Crowned and I am really enjoying this series. I am glad there will be another book, very exciting :)

[[deleted user]]

I dont like Kiyo either, never have, but for me, this was the best book so far in the dark swan series. Totally loved it

[Alethea]

Ok I just finished that book and I have the same feelings as most of you! I am so frustrated! I cant believe we have to wait so long. Well if Eugene was an idiot about birth control then maybe they are Dorian's because she is just so stupid lol. I really like power hungry Dorian.. I mean neither of those guys are ideal for her but he's the better of the two.. damn Kiyo, what as ahole. *rants and grumbles*

[Lee]

I REALLY hope the babies are Dorians. The last time they had that really kinky sex and he touched his own junk and then Eug, I think she probably got pregnat then. Or atleast I hope so! God I hate Kiyo,theres just something about him that makes me squirm.

[Terri ♥ (aka Mrs. Christian Grey)]

I agree I wish they would be Dorian's but I doubt it. Kiyo doesn't need another kid nor does he want them.

[[deleted user]]

Me too...I so dont like Kiyo

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

I love Richelle Mead. I might be in the minority but I love the twists and turns and cliffhangers which make you hang out for the next one of her books. I actually like the succubus series best but thought the pace picked up a little in Iron Crowned and can't wait for the resolution. Yeah it was a bit icky that Eug was with two men but what a set up for the final book. I think that probably that each of the men fathered a baby, maybe the old good/evil twin scenario??? Can't wait till January to find out. Seeing Richelle Mead will be tied up with motherhood for a while I'm just going to enjoy her writing for now.

[L-D]

So far I've only read Storm Born so I tried to kind of skim through this quickly without reading any spoilers but I have to chime in on the hating on Kiyo. I agree! Sure, he was hot for a brief moment, when they hooked up at the bar and back to his hotel, but when I find out he had a kid I was like WTF. And then when she took him back I was like, okay, really, WTF. I don't know why she's so into him. Started reading Thorn Queen but then got distracted with August reading challenge and haven't gotten back to it.

I was digging Dorian though.

[L-D]

haha - is it like Hard Bitten's WTF??? Hopefully not! I don't think I can stand another one of those!

[Lisa - (Aussie Girl)]

No No, nothing like Hard Bitten. sort of the opposite situation.

[L-D]

Evil Twin One (Ange) wrote: "Lisa's right definitely not Hard Bitten WTF. Nothing is as bad as that. A lot happens but none of it really bad. Surprising but not bad."

Okay - I can handle that. I'll get back into these soon. I'm not in a super rush since Shadow Heir doesn't come out until 2.2.2012

[Jessica]

I hate Kiyo too, for all the reasons stated above. I have no idea what she sees in him. I'm not sure I really get what her problem with Dorian is either. He has his faults but he still seems less shady than Kiyo. It's like she doesn't see him as a person most of the time. She only seems to want him when there's something he can do for her. Then if he pokes one little toe out of line, she tries to wash her hands of him. She's really immature, and you guys are right, she doesn't act like she's the queen of anything.

[L-D]

Jessica wrote: "I hate Kiyo too, for all the reasons stated above. I have no idea what she sees in him. I'm not sure I really get what her problem with Dorian is either. He has his faults but he still seems les..."

I'm not sure what happened after the first book since I haven't read that far yet, but I think her hang up with Dorian is that she doesn't trust his motives. Does he like her for herself? Or does she want to use her for political reasons? I think the fact that he knew she could gain control of the Thorn Lands and shape them into her own kingdom but didn't explain it to her made it worse. She figured out that he knew he couldn't take the lands for himself without angering other kings/queens for being power hungry, but what if he could turn her into a queen and gain an alliance? Also, his emotions aren't all over his sleeve like Kiyo's. Dorian is too proud to just put himself out there knowing she loves Kiyo. But because of this, I don't think she knows how much he cares about her. And I personally think he cares about her a lot. Now you guys have me wanting to jump into the next book!

[Rebecca]

I have always felt that Dorian has done everything for her best interests as much as he has for his own. Kiyo i believe doesnt really know how to love. He is so concerned about the prophecy that it comes across like he cant trust her...he is always waiting for her to screw up.
As for Eugenie she is making some huge mistakes that make me think of her as more of a 20yr then her actual age. Everytime i think maybe she has grown up, she does something silly....hopefully in shadow heir she will become the person we know she has buried in her.

[L-D]

Evil Twin One (Ange) wrote: "Rebecca wrote: "I have always felt that Dorian has done everything for her best interests as much as he has for his own. Kiyo i believe doesnt really know how to love. He is so concerned about the ..."

Totally agree with both of you. Eugenie is an idiot. This is exactly why I ended up liking the heroes way more than the heroines. It always seems like the heroines make really stupid, immature decisions.

[Anika]

I hate the going back and forward thing. One minute its Kiyo the next its Dorian. I like Dorian better cause Kiyo it seems lead around by the nose by his baby's mom and that's the reason why he wants to now kill Eug because of the stories she's put in his head. I was thinking maybe a new guy has to come on the scene cause this love triangle does not work. And yes Eug looks like an idiot in book 3.

[Cindy]

Has anyone else finished? I don't wanna ruin with spoilers for those who haven't but i need to vent lol!!

[Rebecca]

I finished shadow heir and yeah i have been waiting for others to finish for the same reason haha.

[Joyce]

lol I have been waiting to vent as well... I started off loving the series but by the end of Shadow Heir I was so disgusted and disappointed I wasted 2 days of my life on it that I wanted to throw the book across the room.

[L-D]

uh-oh. I bought it and haven't read yet but that can't be good

[[deleted user]]

I just finished it last night, and to tell you the truth I was PISSED about the ending. There's too much for me to put in a comment in the group, so check out my review here: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
You'll see how I felt about the book LOL

[Terri ♥ (aka Mrs. Christian Grey)]

*ok, I glanced at your review for just the rating. I'm in the middle of this one and I don't want spoilers. The book is moving slow. But because you are pissed Sarah, (view spoiler)[ I have a feeling that HEA with Dorian is not in the works. And heaven forbid she gets with Kiyo. But more likely, she's going to get with this human teacher guy at least that is what I think based on where I am in the story. (hide spoiler)]

[Terri ♥ (aka Mrs. Christian Grey)]

Darn it doesn't look good for this book. I had such high hopes based on how well her succubus series ended. Crap, I leaving this thread so I don't accidently read something.

[[deleted user]]

Terri ♥ wrote: "Darn it doesn't look good for this book. I had such high hopes based on how well her succubus series ended. Crap, I leaving this thread so I don't accidently read something."

It's all downhill from there! LOL You'll figure out why I was so pissed when you finish.

[Issa]

Well I'm seriously thinking of not reading these then. I really liked how Thorn Queen ended and if the next two don't live up to that, then why bother. That way I can do my own ending in my head : )

[Joyce]

I'm curious if there is anyone who actually enjoyed/ liked shadow heir and was okay with the ending?

[L-D]

Hmm - I'm considering not reading it also.

[Cindy]

There were certain aspects that pissed me off; esp this being the final book. But don't let me discourage you guys from reading! There are things I wish she would have changed, yes; but quite honestly (besides one stupid decision on Eug's part at the end), what pissed me off more about this one was that this was the last book and it felt like instead of creating another 'problem' we could have been a littttle more focused on all the other shit that has been building up. Things are concluded, just not nearly enough for me. I hate bitching when I love the series and the author but arrrgh. sorry richelle mead :)

[Jessica]

I was okay all the way up until the last page when I realized it was the last page (view spoiler)[and I realized she really wasn't going to tell him. (hide spoiler)] Then I wanted to break something, preferably over Eugenie's head.

I really hope this was left this way for some spin off series that has yet to be announced. Otherwise, I really just don't understand it. I'm so dumbfounded that I honestly can't think of anything else to say about it.

*Edit*

Okay I've had a few minutes and the shock has worn off a bit and now I've thought of a few things to say. These are truly spoilers so if you don't want to know, don't click.

(view spoiler)[Now that I've had a little time to think about it, I don't get the majority of this book. I think it would be okay if it weren't the last in the series, but it is.

Nothing was resolved, nearly the whole of the book was some manufactured drama to set up Eugenie's crappy decision not to tell Dorian about the kids. That's all that mess in the Yew Land did. Then whole Storm King's heir thing got shifted over to some other poor guy, and STILL that issue is not truly resolved.

Kiyo and Maiwenn never get their comeuppance. Kiyo... omfg Kiyo... The guy was trying to kill your children. Shove his ass in the effing lake FFS!!! Who cares if he can't defend himself! His sole focus in life is to murder your children!!! Also, I really don't get how death is an okay punishment/revenge for sexual abuse, but not for trying and admitting that he will continue trying to murder you and/or your kids.

Same goes for Maiwenn. Dust off that Iron Crown and slap that bitch with it!!! Kill her, take her kingdom and give it to Dorian or Jasmine. I just don't get it. She has the means to defend herself and her family and she just doesn't do it. Then she turns around and makes the worst decision ever because she won't do it. Like she doesn't have a choice when she does.

At first, I was almost placated because she and Dorian ended up together. But then I thought about it, and they're just a big fat lie now, so that's ruined too. (hide spoiler)]

Okay, I think I'm done for now :(

[Pamela, Moderatrix]

I was just about to start this (with trepidation, considering how pissed off I was by the third book), but now I'm not sure if I want to bother. I hate it when a series with such potential goes down the crapper, and from the spoilers I've read... well, I'd rather not spend my evening wanting to punch a fictional character in the face, haha.

[Terri ♥ (aka Mrs. Christian Grey)]

I'm so tempted to read the spoilers. But darn it, I already bought the darn book! LoL!

[Terri ♥ (aka Mrs. Christian Grey)]

Sarah ~Slow reader, or slowly reading? ;) wrote: "Terri ♥ wrote: "Darn it doesn't look good for this book. I had such high hopes based on how well her succubus series ended. Crap, I leaving this thread so I don't accidently read something."

It's..."

No, say it isn't so. (view spoiler)[ Freaking Kiyo showed up and if she ends up with him I will scream and send nasty messages to Richelle (just kidding). (hide spoiler)]

[Jessica]

TDF Pamela wrote: "I was just about to start this (with trepidation, considering how pissed off I was by the third book), but now I'm not sure if I want to bother. I hate it when a series with such potential goes do..."

Oh please read it... I need someone to rage with me. I admit that sometimes I've gotten a little pissy because a book didn't end the way I wanted it to. But I think my biggest beef with this one is that it didn't feel like it actually ended at all. It felt sort of like a tv show I really like getting cancelled after a cliffhanger finale.

[Cindy]

Jessica wrote: "TDF Pamela wrote: "I was just about to start this (with trepidation, considering how pissed off I was by the third book), but now I'm not sure if I want to bother. I hate it when a series with suc..."

agreed jessica :)
aggravating... *sigh* and I absolutely love Dorian. Could have been a way better (and way longer) series.

[Leslie]

WOW! What can I say about Shadow Heir? The first word that comes to mind..... What was she (Richelle) thinking, and why would she do this to us? (yeah I know, that's way more than one word, but if you our a fan of spasmodic wit, you'll get it). (((and yes, I did just make that up))).
Tangent over, review begin...
On the author's website she goes on and on about how she envisioned her stories, and as a true artist of the written word, she would stick to a certain amount of books in each series, even though she could make more money by adding "filler" books. So, I believed her. And even though I pretty much hated "Ironed Crowned ", I was sure

[Pamela, Moderatrix]

Okay, I finished it last night at about midnight. Maybe my expectations were too low, but I actually wasn't as disappointed as I thought I would be. I'm disappointed that Eugenie never really grows as a character; she was a little smarter at the end than she was in book 3 (but then it would be hard to be much stupider than she was in that book), but overall, I don't feel like she actually grew into being a queen or a mother.

I really didn't mind the ambiguity of the ending; I actually kind of like being left to my own devices to imagine what happened after the end. On the other hand, I think her decision to (view spoiler)[leave the babies in Alabama and keep the fact that they're Dorian's kids from him just plain sucks. Come ON. You're a damn queen with two armies at your disposal. You can protect your damn kids from that crazy bitch Maiwenn. (hide spoiler)] That just hacked me off.

I do feel like there were things that, because of the way they were left hanging, made it feel like there should be more books to come. Specifically (view spoiler)[Maiwenn's crazy "maybe the prophecy transferred!" stuff and allowing her to walk off into the sunset with that bastard Kiyo. (hide spoiler)]

Oh, and am I the only one who thinks (view spoiler)[that Mead must have come up with the vasectomy thing on a whim? Why the hell wouldn't he have told Eugenie that a long time ago? If they were concerned about her not getting knocked up, then that would have been some very pertinent information to disclose. I get the feeling Mead might have wanted the kids to be Kiyo's at first, but changed her mind and needed some kind of foolproof way for him to not be the father. Or maybe she saw all of us fans flipping our shit at the idea that he is the father, haha. I am happy that the kids are Dorian's, though. As manipulative as he is, he's by far a much more interesting character than Kiyo ever was. (hide spoiler)]

[Desperado]

I have not read Shadow Heir & have no intention of even putting it on my TBR shelf. I told this whole series AND Mead to kick rocks after Iron Crowned. This is the SECOND series by her that I quit after the next to last book (the first was leaving VA alone after Spirit Bound).

I have however read the spoilers for this book & all I have to say is...Is anyone REALLY surprised? NO ONE saw the BS that ensued coming? Eugenie has been a childish dumbass since book 1. I tolerated her because of Dorian (& because she kicked major ASS in Thorn Queen) but even Dorian couldn't make me read "Shadow Heir". Mead has this uncanny ability to turn great independent heroines into to boy-crazed idiots. It's almost like a freaking superpower. I mean, it's okay to have flaws & not be perfect. But there's a difference between being a "regular Joe" & being brain damaged.