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message 1: by J.D. (new)

J.D. Stroube | 2393 comments Mod
Alice I Have Been is one of the 3 books that won in our polls for the March Group Read! :)


message 2: by [deleted user] (new)

When I saw it was one of the books for the group read I looked for it at the library.....it just came in yesterday :)


message 3: by Jaime (new)

Jaime (mrsjaimepy) I am waiting for it to come into my library! :) Looking forward to starting it once it comes in!


message 4: by Jaime (new)

Jaime (mrsjaimepy) I have just started "Alice I have Been" I am about 50 pages in and have to say.. I am intrigued..


message 5: by J.D. (new)

J.D. Stroube | 2393 comments Mod
Jaime wrote: "I have just started "Alice I have Been" I am about 50 pages in and have to say.. I am intrigued.."

Is it slow to start? Do you really get immersed in the characters? I am thinking about getting it to read, but I'm a little uncertain...


message 6: by Jaime (new)

Jaime (mrsjaimepy) I don't think it is a slow start. I mean they are definitely building up to something which has me wanting to go back and find out what.. Only 50 pages in and my curiosity is surely peaked! :)


message 7: by [deleted user] (new)

I found the first few pages slow but could be because I am on 12hr shifts right now hahah I am waiting till my days off to go back and revisit this book because like Jaime I am interested in the storyline so far


message 8: by Jaime (new)

Jaime (mrsjaimepy) I am about 170 pages in and was wondering if anyone else has started?


message 9: by Elizabeth (new)

Elizabeth (elizabeth8921) | 2233 comments I am about 150 page into it and likeing it better than I thought I would. In fact I am now intriqued.


message 10: by Jaime (new)

Jaime (mrsjaimepy) I have to agree!


message 11: by Jaime (new)

Jaime (mrsjaimepy) I have finished it! Has anyone finished so we can discuss?


message 12: by SANDRA (new)

SANDRA (smilleysandy) | 28 comments i just literally finished it!! i have to say it was intruing.. like jaime said wen can we discuss it'?


message 13: by J.D. (new)

J.D. Stroube | 2393 comments Mod
SANDRA wrote: "i just literally finished it!! i have to say it was intruing.. like jaime said wen can we discuss it'?"

Dig right into the discussion. Whatever you want to talk about involving the book. :)


message 14: by SANDRA (new)

SANDRA (smilleysandy) | 28 comments Okay.. thanks well did anyone get the feeling that mr. dodgson? spelling might be wrong.. but either way.. did they get the feeling he might have been a child molester? or such.. it had a very weird reaction from me. since i have a little sister of 6 at home. or was it just blown out of proportion by the grown ups? also her sister Ina jealous much? did it happen to her too. I'm curious... any ideas?


message 15: by Elizabeth (new)

Elizabeth (elizabeth8921) | 2233 comments Sandra I think you hve a good point about Mr. Dodgson
being a closet molester or possibly a dreamer about an unattainable angel. I think Alice must have stood out in personality with her sisters.
I liked the book alot and will always think of all that itching those little girls did with those petticoats and pantaloons.


message 16: by SANDRA (new)

SANDRA (smilleysandy) | 28 comments Lol. those itching clothes.. ouch glad i was born in this era where i can wear my comfy sweats! :D

but yes his behavior did nag at me and still does to be honest.

I enjoyed the book tremendously. and i didn't get y her mother was sooo uptight and hurtful to her. couldn't she see that her daughter just had a wilde streak n all she had to do was love her just a little bit.
i think it was cruel how those men talked her down to the queen so she didn't get her prince. That was just aweful!!

Ina really needed some therapy thou.
I shed a tear for Edith. seemed such a waste for her to die!


Michelle (In Libris Veritas) (shadowrose) I loved this book, but yes Mr. Dodgson did give that impression as well he should I think. I know that he really did photograph quite a few young girls and if you look as some it becomes hard to deny that he might have felt something. Though there is no proof that he did anything other then photograph or in Alice's case write about them, for everything that has been documented he seemed to be in denial about the possibility of him being attracted to young girls and remained celibate. The " break" between him and the Lidell family did indeed happen but there isn't an actual explanation as to why exactly. At least that's what I've read.
I was sorry Edith died too, she was a dear compared to all the other hateful characters.


message 18: by SANDRA (new)

SANDRA (smilleysandy) | 28 comments What else have you read? I'd interested in reading some more on it. but yes it was a lovely story... I've always enjoyed Alice in Wonderland. :D And with the movie coming out recently it made me fall in love with the story all over again...

So did anyone else notice anything they'd like to mention..

It was quite sad how she kept losing those who brought joy to her!


Michelle (In Libris Veritas) (shadowrose) Just various articles from literary and history journals online. I haven't been able to find anything on Carroll in the stores but I do think there are few available online that I might check out.


message 20: by Jaime (new)

Jaime (mrsjaimepy) I absolutely think there was so supposed to be that unconfirmed feeling of him being a pedophile. Mr Ruskin as well was portrayed in the same light. Although Alice was the one who initiated certain behavior such as the kiss on the train and being so blunt about her feelings, he was the adult and did not shun away from interacting with her. I think that the book was really good and I enjoyed reading from Alice's perspective.


message 21: by SANDRA (new)

SANDRA (smilleysandy) | 28 comments O Thats great let me know what you find out


message 22: by Cathy (new)

Cathy (cathycr) I read this book and throughly enjoyed it. You can read my review on my blog at http://cathysreadinglist.blogspot.com


message 23: by Paulapsn (last edited Mar 14, 2011 07:23PM) (new)

Paulapsn | 2 comments I enjoyed the book a good deal caught up by the pixieish Alice as much as the painfully shy Charles Dodgson.

Two books that consider the question brought up in this discussion - was Carroll's relationship with Alice abusive - is The Mystery of Lewis Carroll: Discovering the Whimsical, Thoughtful and, Sometimes, Lonely Man Who Created "Alice in Wonderland" by Jenny Woolf published last year and Simon Winchester's book just released last week, The Alice Behind Wonderland. I've read the former and have yet to make it to the bookstore for the latter.

Woolf's book was well written and interesting, though she devotes an extraordinary amount of wordage to remind the reader that Victorian sensibilities regarding children and sexuality were quite different to our own views and that none of Carroll's contemporaries ever gave hint that they suspected anything inappropriate between the author and the children he photographed. Nonetheless, Woolf implies that Carroll was probably a pedophile by our modern way of thinking.


message 24: by Paulapsn (new)

Paulapsn | 2 comments Cathy wrote: "I read this book and throughly enjoyed it. You can read my review on my blog at http://cathysreadinglist.blogspot.com"

Nice blog Cathy. I enjoyed reading some of your reviews.


message 25: by SANDRA (new)

SANDRA (smilleysandy) | 28 comments ALRGT WILL HAVE TO FIND IT AT THE LIBRARY TO READ IT OR IF I GET THIS KINDE WORKIN AGAIN ILL DOWN LOAD IT. THANKS PAULAPSN


message 26: by Nessa (new)

Nessa Finally got my copy of Alice I Have Been. I hope to get started on it soon. It sounds so interesting, and now I will have to look for the other books that have been mentioned. I find Carroll very fascinating and am looking forward to reading all about the man behind one of my favorite stories :)


message 27: by Elizabeth (new)

Elizabeth (elizabeth8921) | 2233 comments Outstanding read and one I will carry with me in my heart


message 28: by SANDRA (new)

SANDRA (smilleysandy) | 28 comments Nessa wrote: "Finally got my copy of Alice I Have Been. I hope to get started on it soon. It sounds so interesting, and now I will have to look for the other books that have been mentioned. I find Carroll very f..."

i gotta agree u nessa. u will enjoy this book!!! i loved it


message 29: by Kim (new)

Kim (kimmies) Alice I Have Been, was a good read. It was a little upsetting to realize how the times scandalized the relationship, however thinking about how the same "activities" would be viewed today....... the same conclusion could be reached. Very interesting to delve into the proprieties of that time and compare with today. How a woman can be "ruined". The times have changed but being a mother of a daughter I have had to think about how careful one must be with children.


message 30: by Elizabeth (new)

Elizabeth (elizabeth8921) | 2233 comments Outstanding comments Kim. I agree society still treats young women with prejudices and also demeans them on television. ( 2 1/2 Men for example) I may be in trouble for making that comment
I want to own the book that is how much I loved it.


message 31: by Nessa (new)

Nessa I am having a slow time reading right now, so I am only about 100 pages in so far...but I am facinated!! I can see a sleepless night in my near future to finish it. I can't get over the times...I mean, why IS it such a bad thing for a child to get a little dirty. They are children! I can't imagine getting my children re-dressed to go outside wearing ALL those clothes. My daughter would have a fit. I suppose that's just the way thins were though. Must continue to read.....lol


message 32: by Kim (new)

Kim (kimmies) It wasn't so much about a child getting dirty as it was that Mr Dodgson watched. A pure and innocent young girl simply playing and feeling the grass between her toes was turned ugly by his attentions to it, and his constant references to it in later years. If any man, encouraged my daughter to change into a gypsy costume, roll in the grass while he watched and then photographed her, I would lose my mind. But that the child was ruined, as per her mother and other's, for any suitable marriage. That was unforgiveable.


message 33: by SANDRA (new)

SANDRA (smilleysandy) | 28 comments Kim wrote: "It wasn't so much about a child getting dirty as it was that Mr Dodgson watched. A pure and innocent young girl simply playing and feeling the grass between her toes was turned ugly by his attenti..."

That was horrible what they did to her. N than that he didn't stand up for her when she wanted to marry the prince that was unforgiveable. N also the other older man that wanted her to keep him company for him to speak well of her to the queen. I just feel bad for her to live without the love a little girl deserved


message 34: by Nessa (new)

Nessa Kim wrote: "It wasn't so much about a child getting dirty as it was that Mr Dodgson watched. A pure and innocent young girl simply playing and feeling the grass between her toes was turned ugly by his attenti..."

There was that too. Now that I have finished the book, I see things a bit differently. I feel soooo bad for her. In the scenes where Mr. Dodgson wanted to take Alice's picture in the gypsy costume....I felt like I needed a shower. Even I felt dirty just reading it. I can't see how her mother still allowed her to go places with him. It's obvious that her mother had misgivings about spending time with Mr. Dodgson, why did she let it continue for so long? Alice was just a young girl and didn't know any better. Someone should have put an end to the visits long before.

At the same time, I wonder what Mr. Dodgson's thoughts were. At first, I thought that maybe he didn't think he was doing anything wrong...just spending time with a child who really didn't have friends other than her sisters. But then he took her to take the gypsy photo...and led her to a secluded area for it. I had originally thought of him as a "Peter Pan" of sorts....the grown man who lived in a constant state of childhood and was trying to hold on to that through Alice....well that thought changed pretty quickly! Although I still don't get the feeling that he thought there was anything wrong with his friendship. It just makes me mad and disgusted! Not just his attentions, but everyone's reaction to it. Like she wasn't good enough to marry the Prince, wasn't good enough to be happy. She didn't just miss out on a real childhood....she missed out on a real life, and felt as if it was HER fault because her mother told her she was ruined, and had to be constantly reminded of this her entire life. It's just so sad.


message 35: by SANDRA (new)

SANDRA (smilleysandy) | 28 comments Nessa wrote: "Kim wrote: "It wasn't so much about a child getting dirty as it was that Mr Dodgson watched. A pure and innocent young girl simply playing and feeling the grass between her toes was turned ugly by..."
IM glad u were able to finish the book. it was a tragedy in my opinion how a lil girl was punished for something that she had no control over. just so we all agree her mother was a true biotch to her! wat kind of mother does that... but as she did she moved on. its too bad she didnt relise how much she actually loved her husband and might have actually been very happy w him..


message 36: by Ruth (new)

Ruth (ruthie1) Just finished this book....and thought it was so sad....from beginning to end...I felt she was shaped by the 'affections' or attention of Dodgson....which effected her mothers view of her(what a piece of work she(Mom) was!)...and helped destroy her budding relationship with the prince...and these events shaped her reactions to her husband and sons(not being able to read Alice in Wonderland to her sons..)...I felt so badly for her...and wasting her life pining for Leo...and not realizing what a gem she had in her flesh and blood husband...
Yes I Definately felt that Dodgson and Ruskin were bodering on being child molesters...they were both very creepy...and reading about them made me feel like taking a shower...
Good good story....very glad I read it...


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