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Archive: Past Book-of-the-Month > [Mar 2011] "Shadowfever" Discussion **Spoilers**

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message 1: by Steph, Just keep swimming … (new)

Steph (angel4492) | 28251 comments This is the discussion thread for March's BOM: Shadowfever by Karen Marie Moning.

Spoilers Welcome Here
Please include in your discussion:
* Did you like the main character? (If not, why?)
* Would you recommend the book to others?
* Do you plan on reading the rest of the series?

* What did you think of the last book in the series?
- Were all your questions answered?
- Did you find yourself with new questions?

And, for this book only,
* Was all the frustration created by the previous books' cliff-hangers worth the wait?



message 2: by Judithe, Soap Operas never end.... (new)

Judithe | 6371 comments I'll start with the last question, and say "Yes, it was worth the wait." But, I didn't have a year wait between 4 & 5. (mass market PB for 4 and e-book for 5 a couple of months apart) That said, I hate MASSIVE cliffhangers that you have to wait a year or more to find out what happens.

Mac has grown a lot since she first stepped off the plane in Ireland, but still annoys me at times. That's OK though, because she comes off as a "person" not just a "character". My favorite is Barrons, though. Lots of questions answered about him, not all, but enough.

The end leaves one wondering whether there will be a spin-off...maybe with Dani as main...


message 3: by Dana (last edited Mar 07, 2011 08:02PM) (new)

Dana (erato) | 922 comments I was another who didn't have to wait an entire year for the finale, but I was still on the edge of my seat for SF. It was worth the wait for sure. I new the minute the beast showed up in Dreamfever that it was Barrons and I cried when she stabbed him, knowing what was coming. It was horrid! Thank heavens for raging beasts that never die, huh? :)

I felt the book did a wonderful job of wrapping up any sub plot issues. Better than many series I've encountered in fact. As I said in my review, all my questions (maybe not ALL) were answered aoubt V'Lane, Rowena, the Fey in general, Unseelie King, Barrons and compatriots, Mac herself, and even the DEG (dreamy-eyed guy). I was even OK with the bit of 'still to be settled' storyline in regard to Dani. If everything had been wrapped up like a package, I think I would have lost respect for KMM's plot resolutions.

So now that I mentioned Dani, did anyone else feel like she was written with a different 'personality'? She seemed almost less mature and more unstable than the previous books and didn't seem as if it should be the case. She also was cursed with the worst dialogue in the whole book! I don't mind all the 'fecking' this and that, but I don't think she made one real contribution when speaking. Even her internal monologues seemed to have lost a few IQ points. Previously she was a smart-mouthed, insecure, teen girl who but on the swagger to protect herself. In SF she had a few moments of seeming schizophrenic. Was that just me?


message 4: by Judithe, Soap Operas never end.... (new)

Judithe | 6371 comments RE: Dani--
I don't think it was just you. I thought she seemed a little "off" compared to B4...I really enjoyed her there, but not so much in Shadowfever.


message 5: by Vivian (new)

Vivian (_vivian) | 1934 comments I guess now that you mentioned it, Dani was a little less mature, but it didn't really bother me while reading.

And I have heard there will be a spin-off series involving Dani, Christian, and Ryodan. I think KMM did leave us with a few unanswered questions about Dani so that would make sense.


message 6: by Judithe, Soap Operas never end.... (new)

Judithe | 6371 comments Hmmm....if it comes out in one-a-year installments, I may hold off this time. LOL!


message 7: by Steph, Just keep swimming … (new)

Steph (angel4492) | 28251 comments Me too, if she's planning the same type of cliffhangers. :)


message 8: by Dana (new)

Dana (erato) | 922 comments At least this time when Ryodan gets flung off a cliff, we will know not the freak out and mourn him! Forewarned is forearmed. :)


message 9: by Steph, Just keep swimming … (new)

Steph (angel4492) | 28251 comments LOL! Very true.


message 10: by Judithe, Soap Operas never end.... (new)

Judithe | 6371 comments Got that right!


message 11: by Vivian (new)

Vivian (_vivian) | 1934 comments LOL, I don't know if anyone does a cliffhanger like she does.


message 12: by Steph, Just keep swimming … (new)

Steph (angel4492) | 28251 comments None that I've read. Some tiny ones, in comparison, but nothing close to hers for me.


message 13: by Judithe, Soap Operas never end.... (new)

Judithe | 6371 comments Hmmm... I can think of a couple others that drove me crazy, but I had the next book at hand, so survived quite well. Catching Fire, and Parasol Protectorate...Blameless. BUT, not quite up to the same level as KMM's!


message 14: by Steph, Just keep swimming … (new)

Steph (angel4492) | 28251 comments It's funny how spoilers are being judged on a KMM scale these days. Someone mentioned a book I was in the middle of had a cliff hanger, but also said, "not as bad as KMM". So, I knew I'd survive the fall. LOL!


message 15: by Judithe, Soap Operas never end.... (new)

Judithe | 6371 comments LOL!


message 16: by Vivian (new)

Vivian (_vivian) | 1934 comments Haha, maybe it's party the wait that makes it bad.

But since you mention it - Catching Fire was quite a shocker, but all I had to do was put one book down and pick up the next so that minimized the impact a lot.


message 17: by Steph, Just keep swimming … (new)

Steph (angel4492) | 28251 comments Most definitely! Mega-drop cliff hangers are not an issue if you've held off for the following book. It's absolutely the wait that is the killer, no doubt.


message 18: by Dana (last edited Mar 10, 2011 10:07PM) (new)

Dana (erato) | 922 comments KMM is a cliffhanger champion. I have only read two other books that beat her Dreamfever cliffhanger. One was Jim Butcher's Dresden Files this past year.

**This is spoiler-ish off future jacket covers** (view spoiler)

Whhhhaaaatttttt?!?!?!?!

AND, he pushed the publication date back on the next one, 3 months to boot! Laughingly called Ghost Story. The man is evil....pure evil. I think he and KMM are cousins or something. Twisted gene pool!


message 19: by Steph, Just keep swimming … (new)

Steph (angel4492) | 28251 comments Wow! That'd be a serious hanger! My hubby reads that series. He's mentioned there was a cliff hanger and waiting, waiting for the next one, but I had no idea it was that bad. He read the Side Jobs: Stories From the Dresden Files book, but wasn't thrilled with it. He's not a fan of shorts, even if all by the same author.


message 20: by Judithe, Soap Operas never end.... (new)

Judithe | 6371 comments That definitely calls for an EVIL AWARD! Round of applause for JB! Maybe I'll wait to see what he does after Ghost Story before I pick up the series.


So...what did you think of Mac's reaction @ Barron's death (there on the cliff, right where we left them in Dreamfever)?


message 21: by Vivian (new)

Vivian (_vivian) | 1934 comments Dana - I know it's not a spoiler for these books, and I was trying not to read it too carefully, but if those are directly translated spoilers for Dresden Files, maybe you can add some spoiler tags for those who are reading Dresden Files and don't want to know those things yet? That'd be appreciated, thanks!

If they're just random crazy hangers, please disregard this message :)


message 22: by Dana (new)

Dana (erato) | 922 comments @Steph: Yeah, I'm not a hugh fan of shorts either. Side Jobs was fun, but it had some shorts Jim wrote when he was young and it showed.

@Vivan: Sorry! And honestly I don't know. Is the shorty description on the jacket considered a spoiler? Those comments are straight off the jackets. In fact, the daughter comment is the first line of book 12. I'll put a little note though just in case. I guess anything that is revealing at all is s spoiler. :( Again, sorry!

@Judithe: No don't wait! (Well, at least based on that.) Everything will be fine. :) They're the 'Dresden Files' ...you can't have them with out Dresden! This is only book 13 and the series will be 23 books long. All will be well.


message 23: by Dana (last edited Mar 09, 2011 11:03AM) (new)

Dana (erato) | 922 comments I loved Mac's reaction! It seemed time for Mac to grow up enough to embrace grief so she could recover from it. She just pushed her grief for her sister to the side and focused on revenge for a long time and didn't really 'deal' with it. Alina dying was a loss during her 'pink' life, but her pink life had other aspect to ground her; parents, job, school, friends, etc. Her new Mac O'Conner life really has only Barrons. Everyone else has lied to her or is using her for their own gain. Even Dani lied. True, Barrons is using her too, but Barrons also provides for her and protects her. The loss of Barrons is akin to the loss of every real connection to the Mac she is now. It would be devastating on many levels. The grief of being the one to do it would be icing.

And how the black lake worked was bitchin'! I liked the dipping into the lake for knowledge concept. Great visual! And freezing everything with her 'grief scream'? W.O.W.

OK, I'll admit that I threw up a little in my mouth when she kissed Darroc. It would be gross enough kissing the enemy but I get the neccessity. Kissing your sisters boyfriend? Ackkk! I don't have sisters though so maybe that is why that sounds so icky, gligggghhaaacckkkk!


message 24: by Vivian (new)

Vivian (_vivian) | 1934 comments No worries Dana, I'm only on book 2 so I won't remember a thing by the time I get there :) But I know the series is fairly popular, so didn't want someone to inadvertently read something they weren't ready for.

Dana wrote: "OK, I'll admit that I threw up a little in my mouth when she kissed Darroc. It would be gross enough kissing the enemy..."

LOL.


message 25: by Steph, Just keep swimming … (new)

Steph (angel4492) | 28251 comments Dana wrote: "I loved Mac's reaction! It seemed time for Mac to grow up enough to embrace grief so she could recover from it. She just pushed her grief for her sister to the side and focused on revenge for a lon..."

Great explanation. KMM did a great job b/c I could totally feel her pain and devastation. The audiobook really amplified everything for me in that book, I think.


message 26: by FlibBityFLooB (new)

FlibBityFLooB | 169 comments Did anyone find an explanation for why Bb&b kept changing the #of floors? I'm perplexed...


message 27: by Judithe, Soap Operas never end.... (new)

Judithe | 6371 comments @FlibBityFLoob: I didn't remember that at all from previous books...so was thinking, "huh...when did that start up?"

@Dana: Love your summary! That part was so intense...loved it!
The lake, too! The explanation of her connection to it was great as well.

Considering lake & knowledge, it REALLY bugged me that she told Barrons she had the knowledge he wanted, when she didn't actually possess it...


message 28: by Dana (new)

Dana (erato) | 922 comments Ahh! I had this same problem with the floors thing! Only I read the first 4 the week before reading Sf and I think it started in book 4. Am I wrong and it was all just blending together? In the first 3 books, BB&B had 4 floors, then (I think) in Dreamfever it had 5. but then it went to 4 and back again to 5 in SF? Is that right?

Someone smarter than me (this means the entire membership of SOS) needs to confirm what the sequence was. :)


message 29: by Steph, Just keep swimming … (new)

Steph (angel4492) | 28251 comments Ya got me on the which floors in which books, I'm terrible when it comes to that stuff. But, I do remember questioning it, along with Mac in SF.

Judithe, I was SO mad when she did that. After all the poor guy had been through, to lie?! But, after he didn't question her ... I kept waiting for the "other shoe to drop" and it never did ... I figured he'd guessed she'd lied. I calmed down a bit when he wasn't tearing her a new one. But, still, why do that? Just mean, IMO.


message 30: by Vivian (new)

Vivian (_vivian) | 1934 comments Took me a second to figure out what you guys were talking about. But yeah, that's like the worst lie ever to tell! What if he actually believed her?!


message 31: by Judithe, Soap Operas never end.... (new)

Judithe | 6371 comments Yep! The solution doesn't stick in my mind as much as the lie, but that was just such a doozy!!! Had moments of..."OMG...there really isn't going to be any HEA or even a resemblance of one here!" Glad that didn't turn out to be the case!


message 32: by Vivian (new)

Vivian (_vivian) | 1934 comments My thoughts exactly!


message 33: by Steph, Just keep swimming … (new)

Steph (angel4492) | 28251 comments Ditto! She was so lucky!


message 34: by FlibBityFLooB (new)

FlibBityFLooB | 169 comments I think I am in the minority with secretly enjoying the cliffhangers. The enigmas found within this series drove me nuts, but in a good way. *grin*


message 35: by AmandaG (new)

AmandaG (amandag3) | 122 comments I just finished listening to audiobook after having read it when it came out in Jan. She does a whole lot of internal dissecting and repeating of things. I didn't like how after Barrons died, she was grief stricken, and thinking how she wishes she could've used her time with him more wisely, then, when he comes back, it's like back to normal. I know she's pissed at him for never telling her he wouldn't die, but still. I did like how much interraction they had together, because I always wanted MORE BARRONS in the other books.

I think Dani will end up with Christian and Ryoden will end up with Jo (or Liz, can't remember now who was the leader of sidhe seers at the end.)


message 36: by Dana (last edited Mar 11, 2011 08:14PM) (new)

Dana (erato) | 922 comments Oh, BTW, we never did answer the floors changing question. :) I think it was because Barrons had a silver in BB&B. Remember Mac noticed the same distortion in the LaRue(sp) house, but didn't connect it until later that she was seeing the same distortion in BB&B. Like the White Mansion only on a smaller scale.


message 37: by Vivian (new)

Vivian (_vivian) | 1934 comments I have to admit, I never noticed the floor changing thing.


message 38: by Regina (new)

Regina (reginar) | 2883 comments FlibBityFLooB wrote: "I think I am in the minority with secretly enjoying the cliffhangers. The enigmas found within this series drove me nuts, but in a good way. *grin*"

You know in retrospect and now that the pain was over, it was an incredible experience -- to bond with all the fans, create and gather more fans, re-read the books, read the HL books, re-read the HL books -- yeah, I kinda agreee with this!


message 39: by Regina (new)

Regina (reginar) | 2883 comments Dana wrote: "Ahh! I had this same problem with the floors thing! Only I read the first 4 the week before reading Sf and I think it started in book 4. Am I wrong and it was all just blending together? In the fir..."

I think tht is right and I don't remember the floors changing or her room changing places in the first 4 books. Am I wrong on this? Could I have missed this? It seemed very Hogwarts to me.

I thought the that lie was so wimpy, yeah I know why she did it, but it was very unfair to JZB.


message 40: by Regina (new)

Regina (reginar) | 2883 comments Vivian wrote: "I guess now that you mentioned it, Dani was a little less mature, but it didn't really bother me while reading.

And I have heard there will be a spin-off series involving Dani, Christian, and Ryod..."


I agree with you all -- Dani was definitely less mature. I don't know if this was because she was unraveleling -- she was homeless, no longer had Mac to rely on, was living with a renegade group of humans fighting the fae and the guilt of what she did to Alina? I am not sure if it was purposeful by Moning or not.


message 41: by Vivian (new)

Vivian (_vivian) | 1934 comments Regina wrote: "FlibBityFLooB wrote: "I think I am in the minority with secretly enjoying the cliffhangers. The enigmas found within this series drove me nuts, but in a good way. *grin*"

You know in retrospe..."


They definitely created buzz and a lot of conversation, so yeah, now that it's all done and over, kinda fun...

And the Dani thing -
I'm going to say it was purposeful and we'll find out why in the spin-off, but maybe I'm giving KMM too much credit. I'm just thinking of Mac in the first book and how she grew and changed throughout the series and see Dani doing something similar.


message 42: by Judithe, Soap Operas never end.... (new)

Judithe | 6371 comments That could be...I'm not sure I could stand it if she didn't grow a lot & quickly!


message 43: by Steph, Just keep swimming … (new)

Steph (angel4492) | 28251 comments Vivian wrote: "I'm just thinking of Mac in the first book and how she grew and changed throughout the series and see Dani doing something similar. "


I think so too. Or hope so, anyway.


message 44: by Sandra (new)

Sandra AmandaG wrote: "I didn't like how after Barrons died, she was grief stricken, and thinking how she wishes she could've used her time with him more wisely, then, when he comes back, it's like back to normal."

This was one of my MAIN problems with the book. I felt like Mac finally grew and matured... and than she just reverted immediately. SO annoying. I enjoyed the book a LOT more once the two of them got together (and not just because it was amazing *wink*) but because they both stopped fronting and having those immature back and forths where their in crazy denial and both too proud to make the first move.


message 45: by Sandra (new)

Sandra Regina wrote: "Dani was definitely less mature. I don't know if this was because she was unraveleling -- she was homeless, no longer had Mac to rely on, was living with a renegade group of humans fighting the fae and the guilt of what she did to Alina?"

If anything, I think all that should have made her more mature. But maybe it came off that way because we didn't really get to see her in action and interacting with Mac as much (which is where her softer side comes out most frequently), only got her input from her 'Dani Daily'... which I'm surprised anyone who doesn't know her can understand, what with all the slang.

I understand leaving something if there's going to be a spin-ff, but I felt the Mac-Dani-Alina thing was a huge bomb that KMM dropped and than ignored and never really wrapped up. Although I loved the way Barrons handled it, I think he was able be sweet because Mac had finally let her guard down temporarily.


message 46: by Sandra (new)

Sandra Dana wrote: "we never did answer the floors changing question"

Any chance KMM just accidentally said it was 5 floors in the 4th book, got a lot of slack by fans, and tried to acknowledge/correct it by just saying the floors moved? I mean Barrons is all magical and there's wards all over, but what does that have to do with the floors?


message 47: by Vivian (new)

Vivian (_vivian) | 1934 comments Sandra wrote: "Dana wrote: "we never did answer the floors changing question"

Any chance KMM just accidentally said it was 5 floors in the 4th book, got a lot of slack by fans, and tried to acknowledge/correct i..."


That's totally possible. Who really knows?


message 48: by Judithe, Soap Operas never end.... (new)

Judithe | 6371 comments LOL...that could be true!


message 49: by Kim V (new)

Kim V Poetry (kym4ever) | 3 comments Hmmm, I have to say that at the beginning of the series, I couldn't stand Mac. She was whiny and oblivious, and immature. But KMM set us up good for her to grow. In this last book,I came to respect her...a little!!

I would definitely recommend this whole series. I have already to some of my friends. They agree with me, Mac can be downright thick!

I liked this last book of the series, it just left everything kind of open ended for me. I, like everyone, have questions that are better left to my imagination!

Was all the frustration created by the previous books' cliff-hangers worth the wait? Hmmm, yes and no. I still have, like 30 billion questions as to why certain things happened. I bought the books all at once except for this one, so I didn't have to wait too long to find out what happened.

BTW, I think my fave character is Jericho. *sighs* Oh Jericho!!!


message 50: by Judithe, Soap Operas never end.... (new)

Judithe | 6371 comments ahhh....Jericho....we had to put up with Mac's growing pains, but at least we got a luscious treat to enjoy along with that!


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