~Opinions~ discussion

25 views
Countries > Israel/ Palestine

Comments Showing 1-40 of 40 (40 new)    post a comment »
dateDown arrow    newest »

message 1: by Siareen, Moderator (new)

Siareen | 533 comments Mod
im interested to see what people think about the whole Israel/ Palestine situation...


message 2: by [deleted user] (new)

The State of Palestine (Arabic: دولة فلسطين, dawlat Filastin), sometimes referred to as short form Palestine (Arabic: فلسطين, Filastin), is a putative state and not universally recognized in the Middle East located in the geographical area of Palestine (which also includes the State of Israel, Jordan, etc..), and claimed by the Palestinian people. In the context of the Israeli-Palestinian borders and the state capital putative subject of much debate.

The first claims that state back to the 1920s, under the Jewish-Arab conflict in Mandatory Palestine. Countered after the Palestine war of 1948, they resurfaced in the 1960s, particularly through the Organization for the Liberation of Palestine (PLO). The Palestine National Council, PLO's legislative body, proclaimed the independence of a State of Palestine 15 November 1988 from the city of Algiers, following the liberation of the West Bank region (which was occupied by Jordan from 1948). The ambiguity of the declaration of independence based on the word "Palestine" which refers to the entire territory of Mandatory Palestine before 1947, that is to say, including Israel (which the PLO still does not recognize at the time). This statement does not involve any de facto independence while the United Nations considers "Palestinian territories" legitimate areas of both sides of the State of Israel, the Gaza Strip to the West West Bank and east.

On 13 September 1993, the Oslo Accords recognize the Palestinian Authority as an entity representing the Palestinians. Unlike the claimed territory as that of the State of Palestine by the Algiers Declaration, the territory stipulated in the agreements for a Palestinian state limited to the "Palestinian territories" recognized by the UN. These agreements, which provide for the gradual allocation of autonomy to Palestinians living in these territories should result in the formation and recognition by Israel of a Palestinian state within the limits of these areas. However, dialogue between the parties is now broken. Gaza is blockaded the West Bank while Israel is militarily occupied by Israel. East Jerusalem, part of the West Bank and a potential capital of the future Palestinian state in the Agreements, was annexed by Israel since 1967. Hoping to revive the process, the Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has repeatedly threatened to unilaterally declare a state in the West Bank and Gaza.

To date, the State of Palestine claimed responsibility for the Algiers Declaration is recognized by 94 UN member countries to 192, while in the spirit of "the Israeli-Palestinian" outlined by the Agreements of Oslo, 11 countries have granted diplomatic status to a particular representation for the Palestinian people of Gaza and West Bank residents only. Hamas, which de facto administering the Gaza Strip, claiming the entire territory of the Algiers Declaration (that is to say, including Israel, which he called for the abolition) while Fatah, which administers the West Bank, claiming that the Gaza Strip and West Bank in accordance with UN recommendations. End of 2010, 5 South American states recognize the "State of Palestine with borders of 1967".



Source: Wikipedia


What is happening in Gaza is truly awful. Hundreds dying or being tortured every day, houses demolished, people arrested for no reason, no water, no food... And when Israel is asked, it's "not their fault. The Palestinians attacked them". It annoys me to know that so much is happening out there and none of the Arab countries, or the other countries for that matter, are taking action and helping those in need.


message 3: by Fariha (damn you SketchUp!!) (last edited Feb 12, 2011 08:33AM) (new)

Fariha (damn you SketchUp!!) (fariha1234) | 1212 comments ^that's true!


message 4: by Siareen, Moderator (new)

Siareen | 533 comments Mod
and why is Israel to blame? It seems to have slipped most peoples minds that Gaza was Israel territory only six years ago. the Israeli government gave it to the Palestinians for peace. Israel kicked out 8,600 residents that lived in 27 settlements so that they could give Gaza to the Palestinians in hope that there would be peace between the two nations.
and how did that end out? Hamas set up a base and started firing rockets into Israeli towns and settlements on the border. Up to a point that there were 90 rockets a day fired into Sderot.
All Israel wants is peace and quiet. all it wants is a place where Jews can live freely and be like every other nation in the world, and enjoy the rights that every other nation in the world posses.
Israel's conflict isn't with Palestine. its with Hamas and Hezbollah and Al- Qaeda, and any other terrorist group who wants to wipe them of the face of the earth.
why should Israel lax the blockade if Hamas uses it to smuggle weapons in to be used against them?
the horrible situation in Gaza is the fault only of Hamas, who made HUMAN SHIELDS of the Palestinians during the war. Israel sent flyers down to warn the Palestinians that an area was about to be bombed, so that they had a chance to escape.
Hamas stationed missile projectors inside Palestinian SCHOOLS.
If Israel could lift the blockade and help the Palestinians, it would. in fact, it does let what it can get through.
but they need to take care of their own people first. maybe Hamas should be doing the same


Fariha (damn you SketchUp!!) (fariha1234) | 1212 comments oh yea israel wants peace and quite..no wonder they are not willing to negotiate..
and yea sending a warning that beware we are about to bomb your place is so a sign of peace loving country.


message 6: by Siareen, Moderator (new)

Siareen | 533 comments Mod
Israel isn't willing to negotiate?!!?? where on earth did you hear that?!
yes, they find it pretty hard to negotiate with people who the only answer for them is to wipe Israel of the map!
and warning is better then nothing, and ten times better then being used as a human sheild


message 7: by [deleted user] (new)

But those lands were originally for the Palestinians! Israel took over Palestine, and the Palestinians have been surrounded by pain and death for over 60 years! And, FYI, Hamas is NOT Palestine! Hamas are merely a group of people that made their own choices. As for the Palestinians, you find them being bombed, humiliated, even killed every day in the streets of Gaza. All this because they want their freedom back.

And if you remember, there was a boat that wanted to bring food and medical help to Gaza, and Israel banned them from entering their boundaries. They even attacked the boat and killed most people on it, and when they were asked, 'the people on the boat had attacked them'. But later, a video of the boat while being attacked by the Israeli forces had showed that the people on the boat showed no type of resistances, nor did they have weapons.


message 8: by Woolfie (last edited Feb 12, 2011 06:22PM) (new)

Woolfie Silvanus (nightlightknight) I recognize I srael's right to wxist and I'm muslim, however, I think it's a counter productive cycle, ok so there is anti-semitic or anti-Israel sentiment in the region, but that in part is created by Israel's blatant flouting of international law, and it's blind support from the United States and also the UK, ok this is not a blanket truth, there are elements within both nations that oppose what it considers to be Isreal's flagarant disregard of rules put in place to govern the internatinal community.

The sectioning off of land where Palestinians dwell to create I srael and creeping tactics to shove Palestinians out are doomed to fail, it's like if you're trying to evict people who have the current deeds for their houses based on the fact that you have an even older deeds that promise the land to you just does not hold up, quite frankly, like it or not the only way peace is ever going to be the status quo if both sidesw comply by international law, Israel has shown itself time and again to be averse to any such application of rule, and you wonder why the Palestinian's are using guerilla tactics? Because the primary powers tha make thing happen are al in Israel's pocket, there's no denying this. Just sa saying Israel has no right to exist is not a viable stance, nor is the 'clear out and live somewhere else this is our land' stance.

Israel may consider that it has taken steps to ensure that it will get it's way ever since the terrible incident in the race's past, but is it worth inflicting a Holocaust on people who have little way out other than to resort to such underhanded methods? What is the alternative? Let Israel bully them out of their lives just because it is a law unto itself?


message 9: by Siareen, Moderator (new)

Siareen | 533 comments Mod
But those lands were originally for the Palestinians! Israel took over Palestine, and the Palestinians have been surrounded by pain and death for over 60 years!

The UN gave land to Israel in November, 1948. three days later the Palestinians started a war against them. Israel won. Israel gained more territory.
in 1967, when half the Arab world [including Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon, with the help of Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Libya, Tunisia, Morocco and Algeria] tried to wipe Israel off the map. against all odds Israel won again in only six days, and fairly won the territories of the Sini desert, the Gaza strip, the Golan heights, the West bank, and East Jerusalem.
they gave the Sini desert back to Egypt and Gaza to the Palestinians for the sake of peace and peace only. there was no international law telling them to do this. they did it because they wanted PEACE.
over the course of history when countries take over other territories in war, it was accepted.
and you cant even blame Israel for starting a war intentionally to gain territory, because they didnt. the arab countries started the war with them.

yes, Israel took over Palestine. yes, Palestinians were kicked out of there houses.
but what about the nearly 1 million jews that were kicked out of Arab countries [Yemen, Algeria, Egypt, Iran, Libya, Iraq, Lebanon, Morocco, Syria, Tunisia]
they were forced to leave most their property to the government of those countries. the amount of money stolen is around $80 billion. the area of land that used to belong to jews in Arab countries that they lost when they were kicked out was 38,625 sq miles.
they were not compensated by the UN, unlike the Palestinians. and Israel took them all in.
the jewish people NEED a place they can call their own. they need a place where they can live freely without the fear of being oppressed once again without the chance to defend themselves. as they have been for the past 2000 years.


Hamas is NOT Palestine!

maybe, but right now they are controlling it and controlling Gaza.



As for the Palestinians, you find them being bombed, humiliated, even killed every day in the streets of Gaza.

by who? not the Israeli army, i can promise you that.
Israels only crimes are wanting to live peacefully and having a horrible media and PR, unlike Hamas.


All this because they want their freedom back.

i will stress it again- maybe they should bring it up with the right people. like Hamas.


there was a boat that wanted to bring food and medical help to Gaza, and Israel banned them from entering their boundaries. They even attacked the boat and killed most people on it,

once again, you are being fooled by Hamas. this is what they want you to think. sadly, they missed out a few important details when covering this incident:
1. Israel would have let them pass if they would have agreed to go though a check to ensure that there were no weapons on the ships. the ships decided not to stop, so Israel had to act.
2. if they were really peace activists, why were the people on the Mavi Marmara waiting for the Israeli army with metal rods, slingshots, and broken bottles? why did they brutally attack the soldiers that boarded after sending a warning?! The Israel Navy requested the ships to redirect toward Ashdod where they would be able to unload their aid supplies which would then be transferred over land after undergoing security inspections. if they really wanted to help Gaza, they would have listened to them. so much for no weapons.
not to mention that the Israel navy boarded the ships with paintball guns.
try watching these videos to find out what really happened:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZlSSa...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6jDIQ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU12KW...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LulDJ...


message 10: by Siareen, Moderator (new)

Siareen | 533 comments Mod
Israel's blatant flouting of international law

please, share examples of that.

but is it worth inflicting a Holocaust on people who have little way out other than to resort to such underhanded methods?


Israel is NOT inflicting a Holocaust! stop bantering the that word out so freely! do you even know what a holocaust is?! you have no basis for any of this other then what Hamas has been feeding the world- showing only the poor sides of Gaza, leaving out the five star hotels and the swimming pools!

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=h...

as for the rest of your words, they were badly phrased and i didnt exactly understand what you were trying to say...


Fariha (damn you SketchUp!!) (fariha1234) | 1212 comments "maybe, but right now they are controlling it and controlling Gaza."

thats like saying since taliban is bombing pakistan they are consideres pakistani aswell..


message 12: by Woolfie (last edited Feb 14, 2011 06:07PM) (new)

Woolfie Silvanus (nightlightknight) Alright are you saying just because jews were kicked out of Arabic countries that it is some sort of payback now in Israel, is this just down to revenge and not about the people who are being dispossessed? International law exists to protect nations and it is a fact that Israel, with it's tacit support from the world's so called superpower, have been taking liberties and ignored international condemnation, purely based on the power of it's pro-lobby.

I hope you're not implyig that Israel is alltogether blamelss in this affair because if that is the case then perhaps it is you who are bgeing deceived, but I'm sure that's not the situation here.

Does the need of the Jewish peple to have a homeland outweigh the needs and rights of people already living in that chosen land they so covet? Or do those people not matter since there is a wider arabic world into which they can be assimilated? The thing is to initiate something that'll heal anti-Israel sentiment, which contrary to some opinions is not completely irrational, although it is deplorable nevertheless.

You are entitled to you opinions of course but I think you'll find that if you were to read what I wrote properly you'll see what I meant. And as for the word holocaust, it's not exclusive to the tragedy to which it has been attached, you say the only crime Israel has done is to want to live free and peacefully but that they have a bad PR front? I'm sorry but that is incredibly naive, thanks to that ineffectual PR machine half the world is apologizing for the Holocaust, I'm not implying that they shouldn't it was a tragedy of epic proportions. but what of simmilar genocides in Chechnya, Bosnia, Croatia Sudan, Congo etc, don't they deserve International recognition on the same level, but are efforts made to remedy those injustices? Not remotely, and why is that? Because of the strength of the Israel lobby in the US that has every offence committed against jews as an issue of international crisis, when perhaps an attempt at a reconciliatory approach is best.

I do not wish to appear unsympathetic to the plight of the people of Israel, and I am not, I'm only asking that perspective be allowed, you say the world is 'fooled by Hamas' but a lot more of the world is fooled by the United States, and more and more people are pulling the wool from over their eyes and seeing the truth.


message 13: by Siareen, Moderator (new)

Siareen | 533 comments Mod
Fariha:
thats like saying since taliban is bombing pakistan they are consideres pakistani aswell..


no, its like saying that as long as a terrorist group is in total control of an area, it makes it very difficult to negotiate peace and help those people, even if it isnt their fault.


Alright are you saying just because jews were kicked out of Arabic countries that it is some sort of payback now in Israel, is this just down to revenge and not about the people who are being dispossessed?

no, what i am saying is that people get kicked out of their homes. that doesn't make it ok, but it happens.
yes, the Palestinians should not have been kicked out if it could have been helped.
but it couldn't.
the Jewish people need a place of their own. as i said before, they need a place where they can defend themselves against enemies.
anywhere they would have gone, there would have been complaints. anywhere, there would have been people kicked out of their homes. at least they were compensated.
why is it fair that jews have been kicked out of their homes for two thousand years- starting from the Roman takeover of Israel in the year 70 A.C, continuing with the Jews being kicked out of Spain, England, France, Germany, Russia, and just about every other country in Europe, and ending in WWII and the facts i brought previously about the Jews being forced to leave the Arab countries.
in most the circumstances, the ones that managed to flee the country they lived in where the lucky ones compared to the many that were brutally murdered.
why dont the Jews have the same right every other nation in the world has to a country to call their own? why shouldn't they have freedom, just like everyone else? what about a right to defend themselves?
if the Palestinians had kept quiet and accepted the UN's decision in 1948 and decided to accept Israel as their new neighborers, there would be two states today. but no, they had to fight for the small amount of land that the UN had given Israel. only it backfired on them, and Israel conquered more land. in the same way almost every other country did from the beginning of time. since the 19th century Jews started coming to what was then Palestine [which was all desert and swamp] and they BROUGHT land from the Arabs living there. fairly. they fought for their very survival to earn the dream of being free and having a country of their own. the richer Jews brought lots of the land that the UN later designated to be Israel.
So no, it is not payback. it is the Jewish nation's fight for survival.


it is a fact that Israel, with it's tacit support from the world's so called superpower, have been taking liberties and ignored international condemnation, purely based on the power of it's pro-lobby.

right, and that is why the whole world currently hates Israel.
and once again, please tell me exactly when and where this ignorance of international law took place.


I hope you're not implyig that Israel is alltogether blamelss in this affair

no, they are not blameless. bombing a school full of children is never right. but when missiles are being positioned from inside one by bloodthirsty terrorists, which are being shot at Israeli cities, there is little else to do.


Or do those people not matter since there is a wider arabic world into which they can be assimilated?

yes, those people do matter. my heart goes out for all the Palestinians that have been kicked out of their homes. they do matter. they are still human, just as much as everyone else is.
but as i said above, the Jews need a home too. and at least the Palestinians got compensated. it isn't as black and white as it seems.
and fyi there are plenty of Arabs that live in Israel peacefully among Jews. Jerusalem is now international ground, and ANYONE who wants to visit it, not matter what religion they belong to, can. that wasn't the case when Jerusalem was in Palestinian control, when only Muslims could visit their holy place, and the Jews were shot down if they tried to come near.


The thing is to initiate something that'll heal anti-Israel sentiment, which contrary to some opinions is not completely irrational, although it is deplorable nevertheless.


what do you think should be done? what can Israel do to make things right without risking its destruction?


And as for the word holocaust, it's not exclusive to the tragedy to which it has been attached

Israel isn't mass murdering the Palestinians! they aren't conducting cruel medical experiments on them, they aren't turning them into bars of soap or lampshades, they aren't forcing them to work hard night and day for barely a crust of bread, they aren't sending anyone of to be gassed and then incinerated. they aren't lining children up at the edge of pits and shooting them down or burying them alive. they arent separating children from their mothers and husbands from their wives, or randomly waking up in the morning and deciding to shoot down someone just because they feel like it. THAT is barley half what happened in the holocaust. and if that is even REMOTELY close to what is happening in Gaza, i'm a cow.


I'm sorry but that is incredibly naive, thanks to that ineffectual PR machine half the world is apologizing for the Holocaust

right, because the half the world couldn't possibly be apologizing because they actually did take part in the Holocaust and they realize that now.
if Israel had good PR, why is half the world against her NOW? why isn't her side of the story also presented?


you say the world is 'fooled by Hamas'

you don't agree?


message 14: by Woolfie (last edited Feb 16, 2011 08:18PM) (new)

Woolfie Silvanus (nightlightknight) I am not implying that Israel is enacting a holocaust against the Palestinians, that, as you say would be ignorant and wrong because they are totally different in terms of pretty much everything that is happening, what I meant was this;

Firstly, it is not Israel's fault, but perhaps some see the fact that the genocide involving the Jews as being the only definition of the holocaust, forgetting the fact that gays, gypsies and other so called 'undesirables perished during this horrific period. Also the world is told not to forget tge holocaust, yes it should not be forgotten, but it is a genocide like any other, and these other genocides do not reveive as much global attention, now why is that? Is it because their lobby isn't strong enough, or that it occurs in economic dead zones in which the true motive of exploiting natural resources is not feasable? Like I said this is not Israels fault, it is the world's fault for having double standards and disguising it beneath the mask of international outrage which makes little to no difference to the people on the ground.

I'm just trying to understand why Israel, by standing up for what it considers to be its rights is so maligned, and yet, no solution is presenting itself. I would like to assume that both sides of the conflict are amenable to reason and could engage in dialogue, but when escalation and cyclical violence is what constantly happens, it is difficult to see through the smoke of ongoing hatred to the real issue, that of coexistence.

You say the side of Israel has not been presented? Then why does it have more mainstream support than the Palestinian situation? That Israel is allowed to go against international condemnation, build it's barricades, destroy homes, prohibit the entrance of aid, and not be punished for it is a small indication of the 'special circumstances it is enjoying', now I know it's not much, and I never claimed it was, it's just the way some people might be inclined to see it.

Perhaps you may not believe this, or you might do, Idon't know, but I am not anti-Israel, I just think that neither side has been properly allowed to present it's side without attracting some sort of condemnation which is a huge pity, if only a solution were as simple as to be forthcoming, but maybe it is, if there is a genuine willingness to parley, only then can the truth be told unobscured by hate and warped by lies and propoganda and spin.


message 15: by Siareen, Moderator (last edited Feb 18, 2011 01:40AM) (new)

Siareen | 533 comments Mod
Also the world is told not to forget tge holocaust, yes it should not be forgotten, but it is a genocide like any other, and these other genocides do not reveive as much global attention, now why is that?

maybe it is because there are still holocaust survivors alive, that remember the horrors that happened to them. it has only been around 70 years since the holocaust. it will probably quiet down in a few decades, when there is no one still alive that remembers.
also, it wasnt just mass murder, it was mass torture, slavery, and THEN mass murder


I would like to assume that both sides of the conflict are amenable to reason and could engage in dialogue, but when escalation and cyclical violence is what constantly happens, it is difficult to see through the smoke of ongoing hatred to the real issue, that of coexistence.


im sure they are. i'm sure that if it was up to Israel and Palestine alone, there would already be peace. but there are other factors involved.
the moment Israel considers coexistence, they must consider too the terrorists that would use the opportunity to get closer to Israel's prime locations and shoot rockets at it, like what happened in Gaza. Israel gave it to PA, and Hamas came in and started shooting missiles at Israeli cities.
of course this isn't the Palestinians fault, but it is a side affect Israel cannot take lightly.
try see it from their point of view- half the Arab world is calling for their destruction. Israel has been through numerous wars and terrorist attacks over the past 60 or so years from the day after it was established. all its enemies have been Arab countries so far. Israel must feel slightly threatened to have yet another Arab country on their border.
once again, this isn't the Palestinians fault. i am sure that most of them want peace as much as Israel does. but when terrorism gets involved, things get complicated.
but this problem isn't as black and white as you make it seem.


message 16: by Emma (last edited Feb 20, 2011 06:27AM) (new)

Emma (zeeberg) I don't think I personally will get too involved in this particular debate. However, I would like to say, that I don't consider anyone good or right in a war. There're no "goods" in war, though it might be portrayed that way.

Take WW II, for example. Sure, the Nazis get the blame, and really, why wouldn't they? But people tend to forget that Stalin had more people killed than Hitler did, that the alleys (the US) had concentration camps of their own, that Germany was bombed to pieces, that Germans are still being spat at, refused entrance and generally "hated on" by many individuals in this world. None of that makes what the Nazis did right. And I doubt that there were other ways to stop them.

But the bottom line is, that there're no "Good" in a war.


message 17: by Marianna (new)

Marianna | 66 comments Might I point out, that famous statement "Israel should be wiped off the map" that so many pro-israel people use is FALSE.

It was widely publicized on the media when iranian president Ahmadinejad gave a speech in 2005 and supposedly said those now-famous words: "Israel should be wiped of the map."

But that was, in fact, a mistranslation. Ahmadinejad never said such a thing. I have personal iranian friends who speak the language(farsi) and they assure me it was a mistranslation and was not a literal phrase.

This link has a very interesting article which will hopefully clear things up:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/...


message 18: by Marianna (new)

Marianna | 66 comments Oh. And might i add something else.

The world does NOT hate Israel.

I am tired of everyone trying to get people to feel sorry for Israel. It is a completely normal country. Instead for some reason Israel is always trying to look like it is the opressed one, it is the small tiny innocent country which never harmed anyone in its existence. The Holocaust is exaggerated for this very reason. Yes, i know the Holocaust occured and that millions of peopel were mass murdered and tortured, but WHY do people always highlight the jews? 6 million jews. They neglect all other people in the event. Really.

Jews today are more privilged than anyone else in society. The world certainly does not hate them. They are given billions of dollars from countries all aroudn the world, particularly from the US (see this link:http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/...), one of the leading superpowers in the world. Why the US is choosing to focus such a big oercentage of our tax dollars on a chunk of land in the middle east, i don't know.

Jews are by far the most successful and rich citizens in the United states and many ither countries because society respects them so much. Jews may be hated in a few middle eastern arab countries, but they are always hated for good reason.

Any president who dares say one negative word about Israel is immediately labeled as a BAD PERSON. This is how much all the countries love Israel.

And this too, is the reason why Israel gets away with so much. Israel gets away with EVERYTHING. Israel is so busy pointing fingers at Iran and Iran's supposed 'nuclear weapons' when Israel itself has not even signed the Nuclear Non-proliferation treaty signed by almost all other countries (look it up if you don't know what it is).

Phew. I have said enough already, although i still have so much more to say, i'll stop here.


message 19: by Siareen, Moderator (new)

Siareen | 533 comments Mod
But that was, in fact, a mistranslation. Ahmadinejad never said such a thing.

he might not, but Hezbollah has many times called for the destruction of Israel, and they receive financial and political support from Iran:

"our struggle will end only when this entity [Israel]is obliterated"- translation of Hezbollah's 1985 Arabic-language manifesto

"If they go from Shebaa, we won't stop fighting them. ... Our goal is to liberate the 1948 borders of Palestine, ... The Jews who survive this war of liberation can go back to Germany or wherever they came from. However, that the Jews who lived in Palestine before 1948 will be 'allowed to live as a minority and they will be cared for by the Muslim majority"- Hezbollah's spokesperson Hassan Ezzedin


The world does NOT hate Israel.

not all of it maybe. but there are plenty anti-semitics and anti- zionists out there...


It is a completely normal country.

i might be wrong, but i haven't heard of any other county thats been through seven wars in a little over sixty years, and had to fight for its very right to exist since it was first established.


but WHY do people always highlight the jews?

the jews were the biggest group- there were 11 million people in total. the jews were over half. and im pretty sure that the jews are the only proper group that now has a country, and they are not letting the matter drop. if the Gypsys and the homosexuals and all the other groups that were mass- murdered would also make a big deal out of it, im sure they would be highlighted too.


Jews may be hated in a few middle eastern arab countries, but they are always hated for good reason.

such as...?


when Israel itself has not even signed the Nuclear Non-proliferation treaty signed by almost all other countries

this article has some of the reasons that Israel has not done so:

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1991...


message 20: by Marianna (new)

Marianna | 66 comments This is a very useful link that will hopefully clear up a lot of misconceptions that people have about the israeli-palestinian conflict:

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/


message 21: by Siareen, Moderator (new)

Siareen | 533 comments Mod
all i can say is that these are dry facts. i find it hard to judge stuff without knowing the reasons behind them.
that is all i can say. you can either accept this or not


message 22: by Siareen, Moderator (last edited Mar 11, 2011 05:03AM) (new)

Siareen | 533 comments Mod
I'm interested to see what people think of this article:


An Interesting German Word

By Si Frumkin

I am not a great fan of German achievement. I believe that a Lexus or
a Cadillac is better than a BMW or Mercedes. But I do acknowledge that
Germans have a way with words. They created words that other languages
simply do not have.

Schadenfreude is such a word. In case you are not familiar with it, it
takes 7 English words to define it: "malicious satisfaction in the
misfortunes of others".

The dictionary also explains it with a quote from the New York Times
about historian Peter Gay -- who felt Schadenfreude as a Jewish child
in Nazi-era Berlin , watching the Germans lose coveted gold medals in
the 1936 Olympics; he said that it "can be one of the great joys of
life."

All this is a prelude to inform you that I felt - and greatly enjoyed
Schadenfreude recently. A friend had recently come back from a trip To
Russia . He told us that he saw beautiful flowers at an expensive
flower shop in Moscow and asked where these out-of-season flowers had
come from " Holland ," he was told. "Most of our flowers come from
Holland but the Dutch buy a lot of them from Israel and resell them
throughout Europe . We are lucky to get them. They are so beautiful"

Another friend spent a week in the French countryside where he enjoyed
a wonderful tasty fruit, apparently some kind of a cross of a peach
and a plum. He asked what it was and was told that it was imported
from Israel , the only place where it was cultivated.

I am sure that at least some of the flowers, fruit and vegetables that
cater to European sophisticates came from the more than 3000 Gaza
Greenhouses. They were all built on barren empty land by the Jews who,
until a few years ago - employed over 12,000 Palestinians there.

Since the start of the last Intifada and several terror attacks by the
more demented employees, the number of Arabs working the greenhouses
was drastically reduced, and they were replaced by Thais, Africans and
Filipinos.

During the months of preparation for the Israeli withdrawal there were
many questions on what should be done with the greenhouses. They were
state-of-art agricultural marvels with their own sophisticated
temperature and humidity control systems, they turned out millions of
dollars worth of produce yearly and they were a source of employment
for thousands of people in an area where close to 40% were unemployed.

Should these marvelous structures be destroyed? Moved? Abandoned?

And then a wonderful and heartwarming solution was found.

A small group of wealthy American Jews decided to buy the greenhouses
from Israel and donate them to the Palestinian Authority. One of the
donors was former World Bank president James Wolfensohn who put up
$500,000 of his own money.

All in all, $14 million was collected, the deal was done and
appreciative Palestinian spokesmen announced that the greenhouses
would become the cornerstone of the future Palestinian economy.

So where is the Schadenfreude, you say? Happy ending for all, right?

Palestinians get the greenhouses, Israelis get $14 million and the
small group of admirable Jews in America get the warm feeling of
having made the world a more tolerant and loving place where Arabs
appreciate Jewish kindness and are less eager to murder Jews, right?

Well, no, not really. Have you heard the old story about a scorpion
that asked a fox to carry him across a river?

The fox refused: "You are a scorpion and you might sting me," he said.

The scorpion scoffed."Don't be ridiculous. Why would I sting you? We
would both drown if I do," he said.

The fox thought this made sense and told him to climb on his back.
Halfway across the river the scorpion stung the fox.

"Why? Why did you do that? We'll both drown," cried the drowning fox.

" I know, my friend, but this is the Middle East ," said the scorpion
before dying.

Just an hour or so after the Jews left Gaza thousands of Palestinians
swarmed into the empty settlements. The Palestinian police stood and
watched the mob demolish the abandoned synagogues and set them on
fire. They also watched with interest as part of the crowd turned on
the greenhouses, breaking windows, taking plates of glass, wiring,
computer and electronic parts, irrigation pipes and timers.

It didn't take long -- after a few hours or so the greenhouses that it
had taken years to build were just so much junk.

And so I have Schadenfreude. The Palestinians will not export flowers
to Holland or fruit to France. The greenhouses will not be rebuilt.
The Palestinian economy, such as it is, will continue to be mired in
corruption, hatred and violence. They will suffer -- Schadenfreude --
but still, they'll never admit that it was their own fault.

And I also have Schadenfreude towards the naive rich Jews who thought
that the Arab reaction to their gift would be based on logic and not
on inbred hatred.

You silly people, didn't you learn yet that this is the Middle East
where scorpions sting even if this means their own destruction?

You lost $14 million and, you know, I am glad you did.

I only hope that Israel cashed the $14 million check before it was too late.

Si Frumkin was born in Lithuania and survived a concentration camp,
the only member of his family that did. He now lives in Valley Village
, CA. He is a contributing columnist to the Jewish Observer, Los
Angeles, where this article appeared.



message 23: by Naomi (new)

Naomi  (purplebookdragon) | 202 comments something for all you pro arab/Palestine people to know

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110312/w...

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/New...


message 24: by Siareen, Moderator (new)

Siareen | 533 comments Mod
there was another bombing today in Jerusalem next to the main bus station. 20 people got injured, and three are in critical condition...


message 25: by Naomi (new)

Naomi  (purplebookdragon) | 202 comments omg, siareen, i am seriously freaking out!!!! its five minutes from my school!!!! ah!!!!! i finally got hold of my dad. thank god everyone in my family is ok. im so scared. im making my dad drive me to school tomorrow.


message 26: by Siareen, Moderator (new)

Siareen | 533 comments Mod
oi. thank God all your family is ok. did you hear it go off?
i seriously hope there isnt another Intifada starting. it was bad enough the first two times.
do you know if it was a suicide bomber or just mi'tanim


message 27: by Naomi (new)

Naomi  (purplebookdragon) | 202 comments it wasnt a suiciede bomer. the bomb wasnt on the bus, it was in a suitcase outside the bus and it went off when there were two buses near it. i didnt hear it go off, but our mutual friend from my school did when she was on the way home. do you get who i'm talking about? lol. she called to make sure i was alive, you called to make sure i was alive, a family friend from tel aviv called to make sure we were alive. my grandparents from america just called to make sure we were alive...... i think im going crazy


message 28: by Siareen, Moderator (new)

Siareen | 533 comments Mod
one of the people died now. a fifty year old woman. and 38 injured.
and to think after all the chafatzim chashudim they blew up, the one bag they didnt check actually was something.
ya, and i sent you a message to make sure you were alive.
ya, i got it.... thats so freaky. poor her!
did you see the headline on y-net? 'the terror returns to J-m'
i really hope this is another one- time thing.


message 29: by Naomi (new)

Naomi  (purplebookdragon) | 202 comments i REALLY hope this is a one time thing. i live here!!!!! help!!!!!! there was a different suspicious abject a few weeks ago in gilo but they found it and got rid of it be4 it blew up.


message 31: by Naomi (new)

Naomi  (purplebookdragon) | 202 comments hey! i was gonna post that link!!!!


message 32: by Siareen, Moderator (new)

Siareen | 533 comments Mod
you mean the one i sent you in Email? lol


message 33: by Naomi (new)

Naomi  (purplebookdragon) | 202 comments i also saw it on facebook.


message 34: by Siareen, Moderator (new)

Siareen | 533 comments Mod
lol. ya, im trying to get it out everywhere


message 35: by Naomi (new)

Naomi  (purplebookdragon) | 202 comments i can tell


message 36: by Siareen, Moderator (new)

Siareen | 533 comments Mod
does everyone remember the Goldstone report back in 2009, that condemned Israel of war crimes against Palestinians?
well, guess who just backtracked those accusations?

http://honestreporting.com/goldstone-...


message 37: by Tsuki (new)

Tsuki | 3 comments Sometimes when I have to debate this topic in MUN it comes down to "he started it". I'm a huge promoter of peace and whenever someone asks "are you pro Israel or Palestine", I have to stop and say that terrible things are happening and have happened in each country and I cannot take a side but instead wish that, for the sake of humanity, each country can put their differences aside and stop the bloodshed.


message 38: by Siareen, Moderator (new)

Siareen | 533 comments Mod
its not always as simple as just 'putting outside differences'. while it might be the ideal solution, it is not a practical one. the problem is much deeper then that.


message 39: by Tsuki (new)

Tsuki | 3 comments Yeah I know it's not that simple, but I suppose thats why I'm such an idealist :P. I kinda wanna pose a question to all of you, you don't have to answer but whatever. Do you guys think that diplomacy is no longer an option, and if not what hope is there for a quick ending to this conflict?


message 40: by Siareen, Moderator (new)

Siareen | 533 comments Mod
sometimes its important to be idealistic. it just doesnt really always work practically :)
as for your question- diplomacy is always an option, though i dont think Obama is going about it the right way. The two people are at such odds right now, up to a point that they both believe in two versions of history that are almost complete opposites. this would need a bit of straightening out before any productive discussions are started.
also, now that Hamas- a terrorist group that has sworn to wipe Israel of the map- has joined Fatah, things are getting a little more complicated.
can Israel really be expected to negotiate with a terrorist force who has attacked her cities before and sworn to wipe her of the face of the earth. If Israel decides to go back to the borders of '67, Hamas will be able to shoot missiles that could reach the whole country.
as for a quick ending, i don't think there will ever be hope for that. if there will be an ending, it will not come quickly or easily. though maybe if both sides understood each other, things would be easier


back to top