The Sword and Laser discussion

126 views
Podcasts > Shadow and Claw - The S&L Podcast #53

Comments Showing 1-28 of 28 (28 new)    post a comment »
dateDown arrow    newest »

message 1: by Veronica, Supreme Sword (new)

Veronica Belmont (veronicabelmont) | 1701 comments Mod
http://www.swordandlaser.com/home/201...

FWIW, my laptop crashed 4 times trying to edit and post this bastard, so I hope you guys like it!!


message 2: by Vance (new)

Vance | 362 comments It was demons.


message 3: by Veronica, Supreme Sword (new)

Veronica Belmont (veronicabelmont) | 1701 comments Mod
It was my karma for not finishing Good Omens in time.


message 4: by Tamahome (new)

Tamahome | 6350 comments Belmont! I'm man, baby! It's straight to the moon with you!

Btw, Severian is also supposed to be an 'unreliable narrator', so add that deception into the mix. I didn't notice the rockets either.


message 5: by Ed (new)

Ed (edwardjsabol) | 170 comments I posted this as a comment on one of Veronica's update before this thread had been created.... Reposting here:

The Book of the New Sun is one of my favorite books I've ever read. Wolfe writes on multiple levels. You can certainly read and enjoy the superficial fantasy adventure, but, if you want to dive into the deeper meanings or just want some help in trying to figure out what the heck is going on, the WolfeWiki can be helpful. It's very much a work-in-progress, but I think it's the best resource there is for reading Wolfe on the web. Here are some entry points for you:

http://www.wolfewiki.com/pmwiki/pmwik...
http://www.wolfewiki.com/pmwiki/pmwik...

I presume you've read Neil Gaiman's essay "How to Read Gene Wolfe"? If not, that's also a good place to start.

http://www.sfsite.com/fsf/2007/gwng07...

Enjoy,
Ed


message 6: by Paul (last edited Feb 09, 2011 08:38AM) (new)

Paul  Perry (pezski) | 491 comments i'd have to agree about Wolfe being problematic in audio; his writing is so dense i find him better to read from the page.

(view spoiler)


message 7: by Ed (last edited Feb 09, 2011 10:36AM) (new)

Ed (edwardjsabol) | 170 comments "Mind=blown" was exactly my reaction the first time I found out what the towers really are. I missed it when I read it too, and a friend had to point it out to me. It's very easy to miss things when reading Wolfe, Veronica. Don't beat yourself up. Wolfe's text practically demands multiple readings.

Actually, there is an American flag in The Shadow of the Torturer. It's in the painting Severian admires in Chapter V. The stars and stripes aren't described explicitly, but you can figure out exactly what the painting depicts.


message 8: by Alotor (new)

Alotor | 18 comments You should be more careful with the spoilers on the kick-off of a book.... I stopped the podcast because you were too spoiler-happy. I'll try to resume when I've finished the book. Please, try to warn beforehand.

The rest of the podcast was great, as always.


message 9: by Abraham (new)

Abraham | 33 comments I didn't notice the laser or the towers. Well, not having read the book it wasn't that surprizing.


message 10: by aldenoneil (new)

aldenoneil | 1000 comments Great episode, and nice to hear a third voice. Where do I sign the "Make Josh a Permanent Co-host" petition?


Nukethewhalesagain | 27 comments I have to agree with Alotor. Last I heard Shadow and Claw was still a maybe and I hadn't bought it yet just in case. Now my order in Amazon is still in transit and this episode had a few too many spoilers. I stopped once you actually warned but even before the spoiler warning you guys talked about some stuff that would have been nice to try and discover for myself.


message 12: by Patrick (new)

Patrick (halfadd3r) I'm liking the Shadow and the Claw so far. It reminds me of Asimov's Foundation series in the not-so-subtle philosophic asides.

One question though: What is it about Tom and books with torture?
The Blade Itself - Major character = torturer
Altered Carbon - Huge sections on torture
Shadow & Claw - I'm seeing a trend.


message 13: by Thomas (new)

Thomas Masterson (zaphod717) | 40 comments Enjoyed the podcast. I read this series when in my teens, and I still remember realizing those towers were space ships. :) One thing that got me this podcast was the whole one quarter one eighth, aaaaarg thing. I blurted out "Math is Hard!" Good thing I was alone in the car.


message 14: by Tom (last edited Feb 17, 2011 06:22AM) (new)

Tom (tjwebdude) | 11 comments Hurt my soul a bit when Tom and Veronica both admitted to having not read Stephen R. Donaldson's's Covenant series. Maybe it was just because I read these during my teen/formative years, but they were as important to me as Tolkien.

I'm hoping they both address their lack of Donaldson exposure. The Covenant series defines the "Sword" genre and Donaldson's "Gap" series (The Gap into Conflict: The Real Story) defines the "Laser" genre.


message 15: by Tamahome (new)

Tamahome | 6350 comments But, you are Tom.


message 16: by Ed (last edited Feb 17, 2011 08:48AM) (new)

Ed (edwardjsabol) | 170 comments Careful, Tom. You can almost tell how old someone is by what books they read in their teens. The "Thomas Covenant" books were hugely popular in the '80s. Everyone who read SF/fantasy read them back then, including myself. Kind of like A Song of Ice and Fire Books now. But by the mid- to late '90s and early '00s, I think not so many people read the "Thomas Covenant" books anymore, which is a shame because I remember them being really very good. I wonder how they've held up over time. Even back in their hey-day, they were quite polarizing. Some people just hated Thomas Covenant, the character, but others found him to be a refreshing take on the genre. There aren't a lot of anti-heroes in fantasy. Besides Covenant, there's Elric of Melniboné and not many more.


message 17: by Tom (new)

Tom (tjwebdude) | 11 comments Right you are Ed. Hard to step outside of myself and see that fantasy books from the 80's might now be "dated." Or maybe I am! (Gasp!)

I re-read the first two Covenant trilogies as recently as a couple years ago. They probably hold up for me because of my original feelings/biases towards them, not on their own merits. Would be interesting to hear what fresh eyes think about them.

The newest in the series Fatal Revenant Against All Things Ending... yikes... they just don't live up. Maybe my expectations are too high.


message 18: by Tamahome (new)

Tamahome | 6350 comments Tom wrote: "...and Donaldson's "Gap" series (The Gap into Conflict: The Real Story) defines the "Laser" genre..."

I didn't know Donaldson wrote sf. Tempting.


message 19: by Sean (new)

Sean O'Hara (seanohara) | 2365 comments Tamahome wrote: "Tom wrote: "...and Donaldson's "Gap" series (The Gap into Conflict: The Real Story) defines the "Laser" genre..."

I didn't know Donaldson wrote sf. Tempting."


I believe Luke reviewed the first volume on the SFBRP. As I recall, he didn't like it.


message 20: by Ed (new)

Ed (edwardjsabol) | 170 comments I've heard good things about the Gap series, but I haven't read them. I have read the Mordant's Need books. They were fine, but not extraordinarily good, as I recall, and something of a disappointment after the Thomas Covenant series.


message 21: by John (john) (new)

John (john) (dowdykitchenman) | 137 comments Surprised to hear mention of Boston Science Fiction Film Festival Feb. 11-21, but not Boskone Feb. 18-20. (All the cool kids will be there!)


message 22: by Bert (new)

Bert Van Vreckem | 9 comments Tamahome wrote: "Tom wrote: "...and Donaldson's "Gap" series (The Gap into Conflict: The Real Story) defines the "Laser" genre..."

I didn't know Donaldson wrote sf. Tempting."


My three word review: despair, torture & rape. But, by all means, form your own opinion!


message 23: by Jim (new)

Jim (jimherdt) | 71 comments Tom wrote: "Right you are Ed. Hard to step outside of myself and see that fantasy books from the 80's might now be "dated." Or maybe I am! (Gasp!)

I re-read the first two Covenant trilogies as recently as a..."


You have some company - I read the Covenant books as a teenager in the 80's. I remember it as a great story arc, but haven't gone back for a reread.

Cheers, Jim


message 24: by Feargal (new)

Feargal | 12 comments The GAP series is awesome. The first book reads like a starter where he didn't quite know where the series would go. A few ideas, some cool names, stir them up and see where it goes. From the second onwards, Donaldson knows exactly what he's doing and where it's all going. There's no petering out like we see so often. Everything is kept tight and overall, Gap is like an onion with layer after layer peeling off until you reach the core. for my money, the single best SF series I've read.


message 25: by Jlawrence, S&L Moderator (new)

Jlawrence | 960 comments Mod
I'd like to belatedly apologize to those who felt spoiled by the kick-off for Shadow & Claw. I was excited to give some concrete, early chapter examples of how excellently the books combine sword and laser, but I should have given a spoiler warning before doing so, for people who wanted to figure out those things on their own.


message 26: by Philip (new)

Philip (heard03) | 383 comments Jlawrence wrote: "I'd like to belatedly apologize to those who felt spoiled by the kick-off for Shadow & Claw. I was excited to give some concrete, early chapter examples of how excellently the books combine sword ..."

Personally, I don't like spoilers- but I didn't think those things discussed were spoilery. They actually made me interested in the book and along with the rest of the podcast got me off the fence and downloading it from Audible. Your enthusiasm for the book went a long way in convincing me to give it a go.


message 27: by Jlawrence, S&L Moderator (new)

Jlawrence | 960 comments Mod
Thanks, Philip, that was totally the intent! To catch people's interest with a few details. I still felt bad that a few people felt spoiled, though. I generally hate spoilers myself, too. :)


message 28: by Basil (new)

Basil Godevenos (basilgodevenos) Another example of a fantasy world that is murkily referenced as a future/past version of our own world is Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time Universe.

There are a couple of somewhat explicit references to things like the cold war (or what the cold war could have turned into had it heated up), and others.

There's a comprehensive list at the bottom of this page: http://wot.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Real-w...


back to top