The Painful Truth discussion

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Abortion

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message 1: by Redwallcrazy (new)

Redwallcrazy (redwallcrazybigkotfan) | 814 comments These are Statistics from the Center for Disease Control and Planned Parenthood. It's absolutely shocking.

The arguments for abortion often are as follows: What if the mother is underage?
What if she was raped/ victim of incest?
What if the mother's life/health is in danger?


The following statistics from 2009 will blow these arguments out of the water!

Only 17% or abortions were performed on teenagers... 2% on girls 15 or under.
50% of abortions are performed on women 25- 40 years old (or older).
Only .3% of abortions are performed on women who claim rape or incest.
1.7% of abortions are performed for fear of the mother and/or child's life and/or health.
75% of abortions are a matter of convenience (it would interfere with work, school, and/or lifestyle).


These are other statistics you should know:

20% of abortions last year were performed on MARRIED women... that's 258,000 abortions.
As many as 75% of pregnancies are "unexpected", 41% of which will end in abortion
5.1% of pregnancies in America end in abortion
An estimated 48 million legal abortions have occured since Roe v. Wade in 1973.


message 2: by Kayla (new)

Kayla Which website or book are these from? Because all statistics are not necessarily true, and I know of another one that was conducted in the same year that had almost the opposite results. And I think that it is a good idea to have abortion just in case someone really is raped and needs that escape. It should not be outlawed, because then the female who really need it can't have it.


message 3: by The, Happy in love <3 (new)

The Pyromaniac00 (pyromaniac00) | 506 comments Mod
Hmm. Interesting. I think the 2% you mentioned is still way too much. I think we should eliminate the availability of abortions to people who are "inconvienienced" cuz that's just bullshit.


message 4: by Kayla (new)

Kayla Very good point, I agree completely.


message 5: by SpazzyJazzy (last edited Feb 06, 2011 08:27PM) (new)

SpazzyJazzy Oh for God's sake, it's a freakin' violation of the woman's privacy! I would certainly feel violated if somebody walked up to me, told me I was pregnant, and said: 'Oh, by the way, you can't get rid of it, because the government are insensitive pricks who like to control us. Good luck!' Not everything is black and white- abortion included. Everyone makes abortion sound like they just pop into a clinic somewhere, and then walk out child-free, psyched up, and ready to do it again. It's not that simple, and I can tell you now that it's not all fun and games for these women. Getting an abortion is a serious decision for any female. And don't tell me they should suffer the consequences for their actions- females have a right to do what they desire with their body, and nobody has any right to force a child into their arms.


message 6: by SpazzyJazzy (new)

SpazzyJazzy I never said they should be put up for adoption (which is why I edited out that bit almost immediately afterwards when I realised it made it sound as if I did). Personally, I find adoption and foster homes can be stressful on a young child, especially if they're going from house to house. Also, I do not believe that the child has an actual living conscience when it has hardly even formed. As you said, abortion is actually a lot more humane.


message 7: by The, Happy in love <3 (new)

The Pyromaniac00 (pyromaniac00) | 506 comments Mod
I get what your thinking is, but the right to life is the first constitutional right given to all people, born or unborn.


message 8: by Lyla (last edited Feb 07, 2011 01:16PM) (new)

Lyla Neko (scourgelyla) | 654 comments I wrote a paper on abortion a few months ago, if that. I'll post it if ya' like. My teacher said it was pretty acurate. (btw, i'm neutral on abortion even though my paper is about the negative effects...)


message 9: by Lyla (new)

Lyla Neko (scourgelyla) | 654 comments oops... darn I lost my junk drive... :/ sry...


message 10: by Redwallcrazy (new)

Redwallcrazy (redwallcrazybigkotfan) | 814 comments I believe that abortion is unacceptable. It kills a young life, and the baby knows what is happening. It feels the pain! There are abortion survivors too!!
Gianna Jessen is probably the most well known case. Gianna's mom, Tina, was 17 when she went to get a saline abortion and she was 7 months pregnant. The abortion attempt failed and on April 7 1977, after being burned for 8 hours, Gianna was born alive. The Abortionist had not arrived for work yet, and Gianna was transported to a hospital where she spent 3 months in intensive care. She was born with cerebral palsy. Doctors believed she would never sit, walk or talk, but she surpassed all their expectations and has rock climbed and ran two 25 mile marathons.
Ana Rosa Rodriguez is another abortion survivor. Ana's mother was only 20 when she went to an abortion clinic, and before it had begun, she decided she didn't want to go through with it. Her mother was told she had to continue with the abortion and was held down while she was sedated. She awoke to be told the abortion was incomplete, and was told to come back, but she suffered bleeding and was taken to the local hospital. It was there that Ana was born a healthy young girl, but was injured by the abortionist that tore her right arm off.
Ximena Renaerts was born after a failed saline abortion, placed in a plastic pot while she was still breathing and transported to a dead fetus storage room. A nurse went to check on her after 30 minutes and found her still alive. 30 minutes after that she was rushed to the hospital and found to have lost a lot of heat, and suffered brain damage because of it.
In 1999, Baby Grace's mother went to have a partial birth abortion, but after the two days of the stages of the dialation, she went into premature labor and Baby Grace was born alive and healthy at 26 weeks.
And Heidi Huffman's mother was 17 when she went to have an abortion after being pressured by her family. The abortionist missed the baby and took most of the placenta amniotic fluid instead. Heidi was born by c section a few months later and born healthy.
Sarah Smith's mother sought an abortion, but a few weeks later she felt Sarah kicking inside her. Neither she nor the abortionist knew that she had been pregnant with twins. Sarah was born healthy. Those are just a selection of people who have survived death at the hands of an abortionist. How can anyone say that abortion is the removal of a non-living being, it is soooo obvious there is life in the womb.


message 11: by Redwallcrazy (new)

Redwallcrazy (redwallcrazybigkotfan) | 814 comments And there are babies who survived but where murdered after a failed abortion. Baby Shanice Denise Osbourne was born alive after a failed abortion in Florida, in 2006. Instead of taking her and transporting her to the hospital, she was placed in a plastic bag and thrown on the roof of the clinic and left to die.
18 year old Sycloria Williams returned to the second term of her late term abortion and gave birth to a live baby girl. She watched her baby kick and gasp for air for five minutes until doctors cut the umbilical cord and placed the baby in a black bag. The baby's remains where found later by the police and murder charges where placed. But if many don't consider this a live baby, how can murder charges be put in place? People need to wake up and see abortion for what it really is. Abortion ends the life of a child in all cases. Abortion is done in most cases for "social reasons" and then in late term stage for "health reasons". For example, you can go to a abortion clinic at let's say 30 weeks and say that you just couldn't cope mentally with with having a baby, and that would justify as a good enough reason to have an abortion "to protect the mother's health". What a joke society we live in! Next we will be killing off the elderly and in-firmed as caring for them could be considered a burden to someone else's mental health. I want laws that protect the innocent and unborn from the careless actions of others. Everyone deserves a chance at life, just give it and don't be selfish.


message 12: by Kayla (new)

Kayla Andy, you won't get this because you're not a girl. All you have to do is father the child, but the female is the one who has to carry, give birth to, and primarily care for him/her. If it's too stressful to that person, it is inhumane and cruel for them not to have a way to get out of it. It doesn't matter if it's not their fault.


message 13: by Megamarie (new)

Megamarie | 25 comments whoa. that's a lot to chew...


message 14: by Redwallcrazy (new)

Redwallcrazy (redwallcrazybigkotfan) | 814 comments To be frank with you all right now, if I were raped today, I would not have an abortion, even if it would kill me. And contrary to popular belief, I am a girl, not a boy.


message 15: by Lyla (new)

Lyla Neko (scourgelyla) | 654 comments I wouldn't either...


message 16: by Kayla (new)

Kayla If I were raped and I thought I could handle it, I wouldn't. But if I was told I was going to die, then yes, I would get an abortion. For crying out loud, I love kids, but I'm not going to kill myself for one, especially when 85 percent of children whose mothers die giving birth to them die as well. 15 percent chance my child will live even if I die? No way. I'll get the abortion, and if I ever actually have this happen to me and the government has banned it, you don't want to know how pissed I will be.


message 17: by Lyla (new)

Lyla Neko (scourgelyla) | 654 comments >.>


message 18: by Redwallcrazy (new)

Redwallcrazy (redwallcrazybigkotfan) | 814 comments I would rather die than murder an innocent life, that's where I'm at. I would rather let my baby have the chance to live, since the place I'm goin' ain't too bad, lol. I'm not afraid to die. (Doesn't mean I'd commit suicide or anything, I'm just not scared of death.)


message 19: by ♥ Rachel♥ (new)

♥ Rachel♥   (i_got_a_jar_of_dirt) | 922 comments Mod
A point no one has mentioned - banning it won't stop it from happening.


message 20: by Lyla (new)

Lyla Neko (scourgelyla) | 654 comments Exactly Rachel. There would still be illegal abortions. People will go to extreme lengths to get what they want, even if it includes murder in the process. They will kill the baby, somehow.
And for those of you who say that a baby in the womb is not alive: I can insure you it is. It is attached to you, sharing your food, etc. It is alive.


message 21: by Emily (new)

Emily (lafillebrigitte) thank you! on this other group that's what everyone's saying! and a baby is alive at the very moment an egg is fertilized.


message 22: by Kayla (new)

Kayla I don't care. If I am going to die or even have a possiblility to die, in my mind an abortion is my only option and I'll get it. I'm sure if I was actually in this situation I would think more heavily on my decision, but I am almost positive I would still choose abortion and if the government ends up banning it, I will be one of the ones doing an illegal abortion. And yes, I could a fetus as alive - but it has no feelings, and is not aware of what is happening. The only remorse I would fel would be wondering what my baby would have been like, but that's it. In my opinion, abortion is better than adoption.


message 23: by Lyla (new)

Lyla Neko (scourgelyla) | 654 comments Actually Yum, you have a chance of dying every time you walk out of your door. If you think about it, there is ALWAYS a chance of dying.
(not to scare anyone...)


message 24: by Kayla (new)

Kayla Yes, but carrying a child and something going wrong is a bigger chance, especially at a young age if I was raped or something of the sort. But I put my life ahead of most people's - even an unborn child of mine. That's just how I am.


message 25: by Lyla (new)

Lyla Neko (scourgelyla) | 654 comments kinda selfish, but i'm sort of the same way. Lets say... me and my class are walking across the road to the preschool to read to the lil' kids. A car is about to ram into our group. One of my haters is in the way.
I'd say, "haha haha, sucks for you" then keep walking. XP


message 26: by Emily (new)

Emily (lafillebrigitte) i'd push them out of the way! or at least warn them! seriously.


message 27: by Lyla (new)

Lyla Neko (scourgelyla) | 654 comments Me as well.


Lexphie (The Animal Lover) | 855 comments Mod
Me too


message 29: by Lyla (new)

Lyla Neko (scourgelyla) | 654 comments It's still live though!


message 30: by Emily (new)

Emily (lafillebrigitte) Lindsay wrote: "Ebonypelt wrote: "thank you! on this other group that's what everyone's saying! and a baby is alive at the very moment an egg is fertilized."

Of course it's human life. It's just not a human life."


what?? is it TWO human lives then?


message 31: by Lyla (new)

Lyla Neko (scourgelyla) | 654 comments No. It just means it is not a true being yet. It is just a living mass, until it takes shape.


message 32: by Kayla (new)

Kayla That's why I have no more remorse for getting an abortion. Call me selfish, but I call it self-preservation and I've got no problem with it.


message 33: by Lyla (new)

Lyla Neko (scourgelyla) | 654 comments My mom wouldn't even get an abortion. She doesn't think she should take the privlage of life away from the baby. She said it's not her choice and she wont do it.


message 34: by Kayla (new)

Kayla Thank you, Lindsay.

I do count it as life, but it is not living until it can think and feel for itself. A child has no memory of its time inside a mother's womb - it is not aware. Therefore I do not think of it as taking a life away - maybe life, without the a first, but if it is not personal to that living thing it doesn't count in my book. I don't have anywhere near a problem with it. I don't think you should do it just for the convenience, but I have no problem whatsoever if the person doesn't think they can handle it. Life is recycled - you don't take away a life until it is aware, and since a fetus is not so, you're not 'taking a life.'


message 35: by ♥ Rachel♥ (new)

♥ Rachel♥   (i_got_a_jar_of_dirt) | 922 comments Mod
Lyla (Scourge) wrote: "Exactly Rachel. There would still be illegal abortions. People will go to extreme lengths to get what they want, even if it includes murder in the process. They will kill the baby, somehow.
And fo..."


Not what I was saying...? (I think. I'm not quite sure what you're saying, lol)


I agree also, fetuses aren't alive...but their cells are of course :P


message 36: by Lyla (new)

Lyla Neko (scourgelyla) | 654 comments Hmmm. That's what I got from ur post Rachel... >.>
Anyway, my point was stated.


message 37: by Emily (new)

Emily (lafillebrigitte) if the cells are alive then what they make up is alive too.


message 38: by Lyla (new)

Lyla Neko (scourgelyla) | 654 comments yea


message 39: by Redwallcrazy (new)

Redwallcrazy (redwallcrazybigkotfan) | 814 comments Yum-Yum the Warrior wrote: "Thank you, Lindsay.

I do count it as life, but it is not living until it can think and feel for itself. A child has no memory of its time inside a mother's womb - it is not aware. Therefore I do n..."


It can feel things even as a fetuses, doctors have proven that fact.


message 40: by Kayla (new)

Kayla It is alive, but not necessarily living. I don't believe a fetus is aware - my uncle did a test on that and the results were that a fetus is not aware - but even if they are, I have already stated that a child does not remember its time in a mother's womb. Unless it can do that, and think for itself, I have few reservations with getting an abortion.


message 41: by ♥ Rachel♥ (new)

♥ Rachel♥   (i_got_a_jar_of_dirt) | 922 comments Mod
Agree with Yum-Yum.

Lyla (Scourge) wrote: "Hmmm. That's what I got from ur post Rachel... >.>
Anyway, my point was stated."


'Tisn't murder.

Ebonypelt wrote: "if the cells are alive then what they make up is alive too."

So your skin is alive? It's made up of live skin cells.


message 42: by Emily (new)

Emily (lafillebrigitte) yes. yes it is.

and i don't remember what i did or said when i was 4. does that make 4-year-old me not alive?


message 43: by ♥ Rachel♥ (new)

♥ Rachel♥   (i_got_a_jar_of_dirt) | 922 comments Mod
...Well, no, it isn't. The cells in it are alive, it is a functioning organ, and you are alive, but the skin is not a living entity.

What logic is in that? Of course you were alive. What's that to do with memory?


message 44: by Kayla (new)

Kayla I have been including memory in mine, but again, Ebonypelt, when you are a fetus you cannot think for yourself and you are not intelligently aware of where you are and what is happening. You just aren't.

So, if you believe your skin is alive, then do you call it murder when you accidentally (or purposefully in some cases) cut yourself?


message 45: by Lyla (new)

Lyla Neko (scourgelyla) | 654 comments lol!!!


Lexphie (The Animal Lover) | 855 comments Mod
Ikr? Ouch paper cut, I've murdered my finger! Nooooooooooooooooooo!


message 47: by Teresa (new)

Teresa (bewitching1attitude) | 1 comments love hurts


message 48: by Lyla (new)

Lyla Neko (scourgelyla) | 654 comments lolz!


message 49: by Lyla (new)

Lyla Neko (scourgelyla) | 654 comments Teresa wrote: "love hurts"

damn, I kno...


Lexphie (The Animal Lover) | 855 comments Mod
Lindsay wrote: "Lexphie wrote: "Ikr? Ouch paper cut, I've murdered my finger! Nooooooooooooooooooo!"

I think that would count as manslaughter, you'd only get minimum time for that. XD"

Lolz!,


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