Breaking Dawn
discussion
Twilight v. Harry Potter?
Very true.... I mean when I watch the movies all I do is laugh.... they make the book look worse then it really is... more dark and less fun.... plus the relationship seems too strained to be real or what was created in the books. There are some parts that are less painful then others but other then that, I think I will stick to the books and my imagination of the rest....
I think Twilight is better! because I tried to read the HP books but I couldn't get past the like the 3rd or 4th one because they were so weird, complicated, and annoying. I think tiwlight is really good and is not too complicated but it does give you something to think about.
I've been meaning to reply to Vedanti's comments. I agree with you that SM's books became predictable at certain points. It's always the same problem: Bella has to pick between Edward and Jacob, and she has to deal with "bad" vampires at the same time. I know Twilight fans will argue that all the Harry Potter books are about Harry vs. Voldemort, but Harry actually has tons of other problems too, as do the other characters. As far as time management goes, I personally don't have a problem with SM making books 2, 3, and 4, occur in the same year. But it'd be nice for some consistency. I mean, the two shorter books cover a longer span of time in comparison to the longer books.
And like I've said before, J.K. Rowling clearly put a lot more time and energy in writing her books. She laid out everything from characters and plots, to symbolism, and meaning. It's a very deep series, and is going to be a classic someday (if not already.) :)
I almost of tired of having to repeat myself that even though both books are good and have huge fan bases, Harry Potter is way better.
And has anyone noticed that this particular discussion has more HP fans than Twilighters? There are only like one or two people defending Twilight.
Vedanti: you said that the only thing that happens in all of the Twilight books is that Bella ends up running for her life because there are vampires are chasing after her but what about Harry Potter? the only thing that happens in every book in the series is Harry trying to kill Voltemort he is always debating whether he should ask Jynnie out! I love Harry Potter I just think that the Twilight saga is better!
Hey... I said that I like Twilight for the soul prupose of entertainment reasons... the character of Edward provides the perfect person to daydream about... I like the books for different reasons so I can't decide which one I like better.
Ivy, pricisely. I couldn't have said it better. Twilight fans aren't really defending their statements, and they only have one example: Edward Cullen's amazingness (which is a good example, I luv Edward Cullen too, but can't they find better examples to supplement their argument?). And in my above comment, I did say that Twilight fans would bring up the point that Harry just goes and fights Voldemort over and over again. Voila, that is exactly what Kamberli said. Kamberli, in addition to Ivy's comments, there are other problems too. We all know the books are about good vs. evil - Harry vs. Voldemort, but we don't know how Harry is going to defeat Voldemort. And there is just so much we learn throughout the series, like the horcruxes, why Harry survived the killing curse, why Voldemort is the way he is. The plot keeps getting deeper and more intense, and finally we have the resolution at the end (as Ivy pointed out).
Whereas in Twilight, the plot isn't deep. It's the same problem, and if you ask me, there isn't a problem. The choice has always been clear: Bella chooses Edward, Jacob's gonna get upset, there will be a big showdown between the Cullens and the "bad" vamps. The only thing SM did to twist the plot was to make everything end "perfectly" because she made sure it was a happy ending. And she did that through Renesmee.
Lee, I went back and read Deathly Hallows and I still feel it was just as good as the other books. Personally, DH is my favorite book out of the entire series (even though it is hard for me to pick). J.K. Rowling's characters were formed very well, and each one stayed true to his or her personality throughout the series. It's actually quite amazing because she had so many pages worth of writing - some people thought that she would make major mistakes over time, but that didn't happen. GO J.K. Rowling! :)
I think that Harry Potter is much better book but also I like the books from stephenie meyer so I belive that Harry Potter is a work of genius and the Twilight Series are only a nice book of love.
Lee wrote: "You know, I think characters/characterization is actually one of Rowling's weaker points in the series. That may just be a result of being in 3rd person P.O.V, but I think part of the reason why pe..."Lee, I'm confused by your characterization comment. Writers are constantly told to show not tell. Bringing readers to the conclusion you want by leading them there leaves a much stronger imprint and makes a way better story than telling what someone is and expecting readers to take your word for it. The characters never act out of character (unlike SM who says Bella is smart and mature, but then she acts childish). People have such a vivid sense of every character in HP and they are all so different and well rounded that JKR's characterization is one of her strongest assets. I hardly think it would make a better book for JKR to tell us exactly what to think of each character and never let their actions let us have our own opinions, like it is in real life. And I don't see how characterization changed in 7, which is one of the better ones in the series. I don't even understand what you're saying she should have done in 7 when you think her characterization is bad but it changed in 7 making it worse?
As far as 3rd vs 1st person goes, it has no effect on the how far the author allows you to reach inside a character's head. People are constantly saying that you understand Bella better because of the 1st person, but that just isn't the case. It's because SM is repetitively telling you what Bella is thinking and feeling. JKR steps back a little so that you feel what Harry if feeling by being there with him and understanding what one would feel. It's the difference between showing and telling and it's way more powerful. Ask any writing teacher and they will tell you to show not tell.
As far as Bella's disturbing behavior being because of SM's Mormon influence, I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you on this one. There are some correlations (no premarital sex, no swearing, no drinking even coffee, living forever as a married couple, having children, the impo of family, etc), but the disturbing aspects of her story are not because of her religion. While Mormons tend to get married younger than the average American (early to mid 20s vs late 20s to early 30s) nowhere in Mormon culture is getting married right out of high school and getting pregnant off the bat condoned. I find SM's older male and underage female relationships highly disturbing: Edward is what 100 years older than Bella, Jacob and Renesmee is beyond wrong, I heard that initially she wanted to have Bella leave Phoenix because her stepdad was showing an unhealthy sexual interest in her and bugged that her editor made her take that out, and even in the Host we see this older guy/younger girl relationship. That has nothing to do with the Mormon church either where most couples are within a few years of each other and makes me seriously concerned for SM that she finds this notion of father-figure romance enticing. While I find many of SM's messages harmful to girls (like the girl begging for sex and the overpowering guy), they are not conducive to Mormon ideology.
Diana wrote: "I think that Harry Potter is much better book but also I like the books from stephenie meyer so I belive that Harry Potter is a work of genius and the Twilight Series are only a nice book of love."That's basically how I feel. The Twilight Saga is great, but I think that Harry Potter is just on a higher level.
i don't see how ANYONE can like twilight
Kelsey, A friend of mine summed it up very well the other day. She said Twilight gives girls something to fantasize about in a safe environment. It's not about the story as much as the dream.
yeah i guess so
think some people just dont really think about the story line and more about wat is involved
think some people just dont really think about the story line and more about wat is involved
I can appreciate that, but that isn't the kind of literature I like. And you can't compare what you feel and fantasize about after reading the novel with the actual story, but the girls that so passionately shout that Twilight is the best aren't really comparing story for story.
yes definitely there are more and more books coming out like that
I didn't get past Twilight with this series.The book is stale. She repeats her adjectives, wasting a potentially moving plot-line by dumbing down her writing/not having the skill to do it properly in the first place.
Apparently Meyer listens to Muse when writing her books. Clearly this inspiration isn't working though because Muse lyrics are some of the most original I have seen for a long time and yet Meyer just continually recycles her words.
The thing that annoyed me most was the hype surrounding the book. I read it because so many people seemed to be enjoying it but this just proves that a lot of people don't appreciate real literature any more (try F. Scott Fitzgerald or Kerouac). They just turn to this stuff because of the popularity and not the quality. It's too easy to read. There is no room for interpretation it's just simple and bland.
Kelsey, Sigh. I know. I'm always saying SM ruined the industry. Everyone thinks they can write now. And they think that is what everyone wants to read.Alanna, and sadly, what a lot of people praise about the book is that they can turn their brain off and are told exactly what to think/feel. I love F Scott Fitzgerald. He's one of my favorite authors.
she also repeted the same frazes OVER AND OVER again
With Fitzgerald you are hanging off every word trying to feel what he felt when he was writing or trying to imagine what it was he was thinking. With Meyer my brain was totally switched off. My eyes were moving across the page and I vaguely took the words in but it didn't excite or move me. The emotions are given to you in a pre-packaged kind of way.
Sadly, I haven't read anything by F. Scott Fitzgerald, so I wouldn't know about that...sorry. But Twilight is really written for entertainment, not anything else. I didn't notice the repetitive adjectives. I like the series, but I also don't think it's great literature. It's like reading L.M.Montgomery. All her plots are the same, but if you can accept that, the story's great.
she says that vampires sparkle at least 20 times in the whole series and her lame quotes about Edward and bell about the lamb and things like that just stink she needs to get a new career or start pickin up the pace.
Okay, she can be repetitive, I'm sort of sick of hearing about Edward's crooked smile even tho ugh I'm in love with it...but all in all I enjoy the series.
UGH how can anyone like EDWARD he is a complet snobby brat and bella is just soooooo whinny and spoiled
Edward is amazing! He's courteous and old-fashioned and handsome and kind and passionate! Bella can be annoying but I'm fond of her in a very jealous sort of way.
I can see why people like Edward Cullen, he does have some redeeming qualities. But I have to agree with all the other comments though. SM is really repetitive, and if she wants to be a good writer she needs to start using the concept "show not tell." Also, I agree that people who compare Twilight to Harry Potter aren't comparing the story lines. If they did, they'd realize that Harry Potter is true work of literature. 
How can SM be repetitive? There's no pattern to her stories! You never know what going to happen next! And quite frankly, you can NOT compare the two in any way. The only thing they have in common is that they've gotten young people reading again. (Not that I wouldn't be reading anyway. Big bookworm) I have read all the HP books and they were repetitive. I loved them, but then SM came! I will cherish both series, but I connect with Bella more. (Did I mention I have Twilight dreams, a Twilight poster, and Twilight references everday?)
Autumn.... thank you. You are so right... I love the HP series and SM hasn't replaced them, but depending on my mood I need SM and other times I need HP....
Kelsey wrote: "i don't see how ANYONE can like twilight"Hey that isn't fair... there are a lot of things to love about Twilight.... and so what if Edward is the best reason we can come up with to love the series... its a compelling reason....
Autumn wrote: "How can SM be repetitive? There's no pattern to her stories! You never know what going to happen next! And quite frankly, you can NOT compare the two in any way. The only thing they have in com..."Oops, sorry...I was referring to her repetitiveness of the same words like "sparkling," "chagrin," "velvet voice."
And I also have a Twilight Poster, all the books, the Twilight movie/soundtrack, and I quote from the books all the time. I am not sure I can connect to Bella though.
And no matter what I am still going to stand by my point that both books are excellent and I love them both. I just feel that Harry Potter was written on a much deeper level and deserves that recognition.
if u like SM's books it means that u arn't reading into it u r just reading it because there is fantisy in it u can fantisise things when u read it Annalisa is right
Twilight personified a spoiled, shallow girl. If you erase all the romance thing it would be trash. I only read it because i know there would be some romantique scene (which inspired me since i am still a teenager)and i like the book cover.
Harry Potter? Gosh its perfect. Independent and clever. Even if i dont like harry being with ginny.
Twilight and HP are good in different ways.
If you want to get tips about how to marry young you should definitely read Twilight.
I said 1000 star for HARRY POTTER.
*sorry for grammar and spelling mistake. i am still learning
the romance even wasn't that good
Kelsey, The romance was awesome... I may have spiced it up in my own mind, but to me.... it was awesome...Arinda, you are right.... they are good in different ways... if you want a romance... don't read HP, the romances don't even begin to get anywhere until the end of number 6.... but for adventure Twilight can only go so far... so depending on which type of teen reading you want both options are good....
it was ridiculously DULL!!!!!
Annalisa wrote: "Lee wrote: "You know, I think characters/characterization is actually one of Rowling's weaker points in the series. That may just be a result of being in 3rd person P.O.V, but I think part of the r..."Thank you for your view on the Mormon religion... you are right.... and I appreciate you saying so... what most people fail to grasp is that just because SM is mormon... her books have to have an LDS tie.... which is annoying because then non LDS people think that the books reflect our views.... which it doesn't....
Edward has only one purpose now.... give girls something to daydream about.... story lines aside... Edward was a really well imagined character.... say what you want about SM writting but the character is prime for hopeless dreaming about....
the whole sophistication of SM writing may be not as high as JKR but there are a few things to consider... 1)JKR is British... better English instead of the slurvian that we Americans use daily... 2) by keeping her writing simpler, more people were willing to read it because you didn't need a dictionary to go with it....
Kelsey wrote: "it was ridiculously DULL!!!!!"You obvoiusly have found better passion??? Where??? For those of us who don't have the opportunity to have it as a part of our everyday lives, we have to take the imaginary stuff that was originally created by someone else.... like SM.... her passion was clean but strong... making it the perfect template for girls like me.
Well i find passion in the books i read. but this was just like bella whinning cuz she wanted to sleep with Edward and who cares she is 17 and 18 for crying out loud!!!! get a life Bella
I would also like to add my reasons for liking Twilight. And to defend SM with the Twilight series in any way I can.1. Edward Cullen (duh)
2. Bella-she is an absolute normal,non-shallow girl in the weirdest situations. And her actions may not have been responsible, but she did what she believed in. She is someone a lot of girls can connect with. If you were faced with the knowledge that your in love with a vampire who craves your blood but doesn't want to hurt you, what else could you do?
3. Suspense-right from the first page, you want more. You want to know what is going to happen
4. Twilight is easy to read and that's what is making so many people read it. Yet there's a lot going on to make the reader read more
5.Self-reality check-all the books also make you think about what exactly you would have done in Bella's current situation. I am very mature and responsible too, yet I find myself wanting to be Bella in every moment, even the feiry tranformation to a vamp.
6.There are so many other reasons that my post wouldn't fit on one page or three.
Movig on. I don't like Jacob in that way, and the reason Bella married Edward was because they were in love. Duh. How to explain the feeling for him.....He lets her do what she wants so she can be happy. Wouldn't you want your husband to do the same? And still protect you at the same time? My dad could actually explain this...maybe. At least my comparison is that my dad saw my mom in 7th grade and immediately knew he was going to marry her. Mom didn't like him at first, but eventually she came around. How's that for love at first sight?
And the discussion on the sex and pregnancy stuff. Let it go. SM didn't write these books for anyone but herself, so there was no limit to where she could go. Now, I'm 15 and a half, and I don't feel uncomfortable reading about this stuff. If you do, don't read it. But it's a part of the tapestry. You can't cut it out. It's goin to happen and besides people wanted to know what would happen. Personally, my favorite out of all four is Breaking Dawn. I was so glad Jacob found who he truly was meant for. Even if it did happen to be Bellla's half-vamp-half-human baby.
There's also a message that SM didn't know she was giving. No it's not to go have sex and get married right after high school. It's to give all girls hope and bravery and courage to do what they, in their hearts know to be true. And that's exactly what Bella did. There was a happy ending because it's like a fairy tale for YA.
And for the record, I don't mind hearing about how Edward's crooked smile melts Bella's heart everytime. I melt too. And her words are not repetitive enough to create such a huge debate. And Bella isn't whiny.
Reply to this if you want to read me blabber on any more.
I agree that it is a positive thing to 'get people reading' but I'd rather 'get people reading' a good quality book instead of this series. People say 'omg they're so good' but that is not my definition of good literature. They should be saying 'omg they are so easy to read, I don't have to concentrate at all'. Personally, I think there are definitely times when you need something light to read and that's where Twilight comes in but I disagree with how the series has become so hyped and that young people now base their definition of a 'good book' on commercialised drivel.
Autumn, I am insanely happy with you for writing all that, I don't have time to respond to all that, but I will later...I definitely don't agree with you on everything, but on some things yes.
Alanna, you are right about the fact that you have to think very little when you read Twilight and more when you read HP. The definition of a "good" book has changed over the years so that easy is good.... I think we just need to find stronger adjectives in our everyday life to describe the books that are of a higher caliber....Autumn, I agree with Clara on the fact that I will get around to reading all of your reasons.... they seem like something that I would enjoy as a fellow Twilight lover.... I especially liked your number 1.... that is my number 1 as well....
Autumn wrote: "I would also like to add my reasons for liking Twilight. And to defend SM with the Twilight series in any way I can.
1. Edward Cullen (duh)
2. Bella-she is an absolute normal,non-shallow girl in..."
ok here is my list rejecting everything u said
1. edward Cullen is an annoying person he is totally dull so i dont get y u like him
2 bella is totally shalow a complete whiner spoiled and is showing the world that she can only live with a boy in her life
3. there is no suspense me watching the show lost which is full of suspence this book was just ful of here letsa jot this and this out
4. that just shows that America is stupid easy reads should not be a reason to read a book books are for the Story not how EASY it is
5. Bella is very unreasonable. she always wants to be the senter of atension she is spoiled and unreasonable
6.that part doesn't make ANY sense half the reasons are hav no point
1. Edward Cullen (duh)
2. Bella-she is an absolute normal,non-shallow girl in..."
ok here is my list rejecting everything u said
1. edward Cullen is an annoying person he is totally dull so i dont get y u like him
2 bella is totally shalow a complete whiner spoiled and is showing the world that she can only live with a boy in her life
3. there is no suspense me watching the show lost which is full of suspence this book was just ful of here letsa jot this and this out
4. that just shows that America is stupid easy reads should not be a reason to read a book books are for the Story not how EASY it is
5. Bella is very unreasonable. she always wants to be the senter of atension she is spoiled and unreasonable
6.that part doesn't make ANY sense half the reasons are hav no point
I love both of these series. But they are in no way simillar except for the fact that they are geared to a youger addiance and are fantacy based.
Mandy Rae, that is the simplest way to sum everything up. At least my opinion. You are 100% right.
Okay. Here is my responseto your reasons, Autumn, chronologically.
1. Of course. Oh, Edward...
2. Bella is stronger than a lot of girls that I know, and she has a personality. I would not classify her as shallow.
3. Suspense...mmm, maybe. All the plotline bores me, I just want to know what's going on with Edward, so the only plance I'm in suspense is before Bella knows he's a vampire and waiting for him to come back in New Moon.
4. Twilight is easy to read which is not a bonus. It shows how lazy and stupid people are that they want all the meaning to float over to them. But I do enjoy that it can be an easy book while I have harder books going too.
5. And self-reality-check's about all it makes you think about morally. And I can do that without Twilight. (So, Clara, what would you do if that guy over there came up and asked you on a date.)
6. Whatever.
But thank you for arguing the devil's case or whatever you call it.
1. Of course. Oh, Edward...
2. Bella is stronger than a lot of girls that I know, and she has a personality. I would not classify her as shallow.
3. Suspense...mmm, maybe. All the plotline bores me, I just want to know what's going on with Edward, so the only plance I'm in suspense is before Bella knows he's a vampire and waiting for him to come back in New Moon.
4. Twilight is easy to read which is not a bonus. It shows how lazy and stupid people are that they want all the meaning to float over to them. But I do enjoy that it can be an easy book while I have harder books going too.
5. And self-reality-check's about all it makes you think about morally. And I can do that without Twilight. (So, Clara, what would you do if that guy over there came up and asked you on a date.)
6. Whatever.
But thank you for arguing the devil's case or whatever you call it.
OK, thanks for responding everyone. I would like to say that I don't uderstand this:"3. there is no suspense me watching the show lost which is full of suspence this book was just ful of here letsa jot this and this out4. that just shows that America is stupid easy reads should not be a reason to read a book books are for the Story not how EASY it is
5. Bella is very unreasonable. she always wants to be the senter of atension she is spoiled and unreasonable
6.that part doesn't make ANY sense half the reasons are hav no point" by Kelsy. I just can't understand your grammar.
In defense of the "easy read" thing, how many of you have about 3/4, neigh,4/5 of the student body that doesn't like to read? These books are easy and have meaning that any average non-bookworm can understand.
And to those who think Edward is dull and that Bella is shallow, please give proof and quotes from the books to give evidence to your conclusions. Edward would be dull if he didn't have mood swings and didn't feel anxious about Bella's safety. And Bella is the complete opposite of shallow. She never wants attention on her. She's refused all gifts and expensive stuff that Edward offered her. (Except the homemade stuff, but hey, I'm a sucker for those too)
The suspense I suppose only works if you don't focus on how amazing Edward is. But I got to say, my heart was racing in some spots.
Clara, what would you do if that cute guy asked you on a date? And whats does your "Whatever" reason refer to?
Lara, thank you for saying our vocab sucks. I quite agree. Although, I'm not sure how else to expand.
In general, I agree with you. If that cute guy asked me on a date, I would freak out, pretend I didn't hear, or ask, "Who dared you?" or something like that. Actually I have no idea.
Whatever referred to the fact that since you weren't writing those things down, I couldn't respond to them, and you were probably just making them up.
I find Jacob very dull, myself?
Whatever referred to the fact that since you weren't writing those things down, I couldn't respond to them, and you were probably just making them up.
I find Jacob very dull, myself?
Is that a question? "I find Jacob very dull, myself? "by Clara. I was so not making them up. And I would propably be a little more daring than you when answering Maxwell when he figures out that he can not live with out me. Something clever. Ok back to the disscussion. I do agree that Jacob is dull. He is a good friend though.
No, that wasn't a question. Would you really? Like what? Yeah, Jacob's dull. Why do people like him so much?
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Yes, I've noticed that movie skips a lot of "important things" in the books...it's like why can't stick to the original thing - people like the books!