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Drums of Autumn
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Cathrin
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Oct 22, 2014 10:45PM
I don't think Roger knew at the time that those were his ancestors
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Sunflower wrote: "I don't think Roger knew at the time that those were his ancestors"I think Roger does know these are his ancestors and you want to remember that William Buccleigh MacKenzie is also known as Buck
I think he did because Claire told him of the changeling story before he went through the stones. I think that is why he had the soft spot for Morag. Do you remember when the family first tried to book passage on the ship. Roger was there and recognized them from that.
He did kiss her - not passionately but more affectionately because she was connected to him. Her husband didn't see it that way though because he knew nothing about what was going on in Rogers head.
Lisa wrote: "Please help. I am confused about the relationship between Roger and Geillis and the couple on the boat with the baby. I know Geillis switched out her child somewhere. The term "changeling" was used somewhere, and Roger ended up naming his child that Jem, which I believe was the name of the baby. Was that the changeling? Did that child survive? "(view spoiler)
Mia wrote: "I am still reading DoA. I almost stopped after the meeting of Jamie and Roger. I thought Jamie too brutal for only having second hand info. I thought it a little out of character, but only a little..."I understood why Jamie was so upset almost berserk. (view spoiler)
I think it was totally within Jamie's character as an over-protective father.
Catherine wrote: "thus, the changeling child...."The first part of Rogers ancestors is absolutely correct. However, I don't remember anyone calling that baby a changeling.
They used the term changeling in Outlander to describe the baby that was dying on the hill that Claire and Geillus found. The parent's though that if they put the sick baby out there, that their child would be changed and kept safe instead of actually dying.
Burbanista wrote: "Never been to Scotland. It's on my bucket list but I'm afraid of getting there and not finding Jamie waiting! :)"LOL! I went on vacation their several years ago and worked in Edinburgh and Glasgow for a few months. Let me assure you there are plenty of wonderful Scottish men, with that cute accent waiting for you. I met some wonderful guys when I worked with there, and they are still some of my best friends. So do go, have fun, and you'll really love it. Lots of Jamie types, especially if you go to one of the Highland Games.. All the guys in Kilts! :}))))
Lynn wrote: "I've read all of the books, but Outlander and Dragonfly in Amber are my favorites, especially Outlander. There is no better fictional hero in my mind better than James Alexander Malcolm MacKenzie F..."I totally agree, gads what a man.. if only we could clone him! LOL!
Brizo wrote: "Catherine wrote: "thus, the changeling child...."The first part of Rogers ancestors is absolutely correct. However, I don't remember anyone calling that baby a changeling.
They used the term ..."
You are right that the term changeling was not used for Geillis' baby. I thought it was mentioned that her baby was given to the couple that had lost their child in the changeling incident so it was part of the same situation. The couple kept the original baby name for the new baby that they were given so that is why the records did not show adoption.
In narration Claire would call that part of Rogers family ancestory the 'changeling' baby. Not because Geillis baby was the changeling but just because that was the events surrounding that family getting that baby.
Diane wrote: "Brizo wrote: "Catherine wrote: "thus, the changeling child...."The first part of Rogers ancestors is absolutely correct. However, I don't remember anyone calling that baby a changeling.
They ..."
Oh, I didn't remember that the baby was given to the couple who lost the changeling child. Was that mentioned in DiA?
I read the books back to back so I cannot ever remember specific details of which book I read it in. I think it may have been Claire was telling the whole story to Roger and Bree.
Yes, that's what I read too. That Dougal arranged for Geillis's baby to be given to the couple who's baby was the changeling.
I'm curious about at the end of DOA, when Jamie is reading the letter from Frank to the reverend (or maybe Roger is just repeating it) - Frank thanks the revere reverend for placing the gravestone in the cemetary. I could not figure out if he was referring to the Jack Randall stone or the Jamie stone. Did I miss something? Just been puzzling me so I thought I'd ask. Thanks!
The Jamie stone -- he placed it there a clue for Brianna to look for her past if she was interested, and put some closure for Claire so she would stop.
I loved this book! Probably my favorite with book 3&6!
I just finished reading Drums of Autumn and I wanted to post my thoughts before I go back and read some of the other comments (I also have to read through comments on the TV series since I just finished that. Should make for a fun few days).I should start by saying that I had issues with Voyager. My main problem with that book was that DG went from one big event to another, never really giving us time to properly address the personal issues between Claire and Jamie. Once Claire was back in the past, she found Jamie quickly and most of the drama/tension between them was gone pretty quickly, despite having some serious issues to discuss. There were a lot of times when I just wanted to slow down and have the characters talk, because a lot of the tension was never fully resolved.
Drums of Autumn was much better in a lot of ways. I think it's probably my favorite of the books since the first (I don't know where that puts me in the fandom... I hope it doesn't all go downhill from here). There was a lot of interesting character interaction and much less focus on moving from one big event to the next.
My main issue with it is that it still wasn't between Claire and Jamie. it was about Brianna and Jamie, or Brianna and Roger. Or even Jamie and Roger. We had hints of Jamie wondering about Claire's lonely life while she was away, but it's never hashed out between them. By the end of the book, it feels like the torch has been passed from Claire to Brianna, and Claire almost becomes a supporting player.
It's interesting, because this book goes to a lot of the places that I wanted Voyager to go. It's just with the wrong characters. Claire found Jamie very quickly when she got to the past. I expected more of a story to that part. Meanwhile, it took Brianna months to find her parents, and then there was Roger finding Brianna.
When Brianna meets with Jamie, things are great, but there is still some underlying doubt and unfamiliarity there, which comes out in a big way and plays a large part in the story. He and Ian pretty much call Bree a whore and it creates a huge rift. Though the reasons were different, I would have liked to have seen some of this tension between Claire and Jamie in Voyager.
The months that Bree and Roger were separated created more drama in the story than the 20 years that Claire and Jamie were separated.
So if I'm comparing books, I think that DoA has done a much better job at the character interactions, but Claire still seems left behind. There still wasn't much from her. How does it feel to have her two worlds collide? To be put between husband and child in arguments for the first time (Frank not counting)? Is Claire's story pretty much over? Is she handing things over to Bree now? I guess I'll find out when I move on to the next book.
What was interesting is that Bree's story was very similar to what Jamie believed happened to Jenny when he was taken away from Lallybroch as a teenager. He thought she was raped in an attempt to save his life and that Little Jamie was Jack Randall's son. That weighed heavily on him and he was hurt that the kid would be named after him.
So now we have Bree who is raped while trying to save Jamie and Claire, by a man who would have been dead if Jamie had allowed him to be executed. I half expected Bree to name the kid Jamie and have Jamie react to that. He was pretty accepting of the kid though, no matter what he thought of the baby's parents. Is that a sign that he has changed for the better or for the worse? I don't know. A bit of both, maybe.
I was waiting for Claire to announce a pregnancy at some point (hey, it could happen). But again, it seems like Bree has been handed that role in the story now. Part of me still regrets the 20 year jump, because it means that Jamie will probably never have the experience of being a father to a child. (again, I haven't read past Drums of Autumn, so don't spoil it if I'm wrong)
Ian... We spent all of Voyager chasing after this kid, risking life and limb. After all that, his being taken by the Mohawks just like that seemed really odd to me. It's great if he's happy, but it seemed more like a kidnapping to me in how it played out, and Jamie seemed oddly okay with it. Again, if it were simply a choice that Ian made, I would have a different reaction. I'm glad that it seem to have worked out for him in the end. I hope he shows up again.
In a lot of ways, he seems like a way for DG to bring back an element of the younger Jamie, always being shipped off or imprisoned.
I wish Fergus had played a bigger role, but I understand why he couldn't.
Lord John, I'm torn with. On the one hand, I like his interaction with the different characters. In that way, he's a great character. However, having him constantly bringing up his romantic love for Jamie to Jamie's wife and daughter eventually started striking me as creepy. I wish that he had just found a way to settle into appreciating the relationship that they do have, rather than linger on the fact that he is still in love with Jamie. Even though the romantic thing between them would never happen, it seems wrong for someone like that to be hanging around the family. If it were Laoghaire pining away despite Jamie's lack of interest, it would be seen differently. I certainly don't think she would be sleeping in their cabin.
I think that John makes a good friend, don't get me wrong. But as long as he is still staring at Jamie's ass, it feels weird to have him around.
I just voiced a lot of opinions that probably sound negative. I want to say again that I did like this book, better than the last two. These are just the parts that I wanted to discuss a bit more since they were floating around in my head.
One last question. Is there a rule that says that someone needs to be raped in every one of these books? It seems to happen quite often, to both genders.
Just finished Voyager and I also expected Claire having more difficulty in finding Jamie. I also expected more interaction to the two before the action started up again. Too much happened too quickly without the emotional aspects being settled. I just started Drums of Autumn and, from everyone's comments, am looking forward to getting to the part where Bree decides to go through the stones.
In Drums, I got a little tired of men being so attracted to Jamie, or should I say, in love with. No one seemed to be attracted to the Clair, except for Jamie; but what about females being attractive. What is with that?
My favorite thus far is Outlander. That one got me hooked, as did the series. Loved it! Thought they did a good job in keeping with the book. The things which were changed did not alter anything. The love scenes between Jamie and Clair were done really well. A must see!
It is weird that everyone seems to walk right past Claire and swoon over Jamie, no matter which sex they are. Maybe it's because I'm picturing Caitriona Balfe in my head for Claire, but that just seems completely unrealistic. :)The TV show is really good. I would have preferred a few more episodes so that some things weren't as rushed, but they did great with what they were allowed. I have to read through all of the comments about the TV series here when I get the chance. I imagine there was some interesting discussion.
Claire gets her fair share of outside "admirers" in the series. Some good and some not so good. I think Claire's dominant take charge, I don't play games attitude is what keeps people at bay. Most women were not straight forward as she was in that time and it was intimidating. I also think men would think twice before offending her knowing she was Jamie's wife.
After Outlander, Voyager is one of my favorites in the series. I love getting the backstory on their lives during the time they were apart, and the way things just start happening so quickly is, well, just fun - for the reader, anyway! How they keep running in to people all over the globe is kind of humorous to me. One of my favorite quotes: "The first thing you do when I find you is faint, and as soon as I've got you back on your feet, you get me assaulted in a pub and chased through Edinburgh in company with a deviant Chinese, ending up in a brothel--whose madam seems to be on awfully familiar terms with you, I might add". You then take off your clothes, announce that you're a terrible person with a depraved past, and take me to bed. What did you expect me to think?". Yep. Action packed!
That was pretty good.I liked Voyager, but it seemed like a lot of emotional baggage was lost in transit. at one point, they are venting anger at each other so violently that Jamie *almost* comes across a little rapist-y. Then it is quickly forgiven and they move on, never seeming to revisit the weird emotions that would come up in their situation.
Then we have Drums of Autumn where Roger and Bree are separated for far less time, yet spend a proper amount of time venting their emotions toward each other. Bree also has some good emotional reactions to Jamie. Jamie even has weird emotional reactions when it comes to Bree.
Claire and Jamie are both hardheaded people and they can have some pretty big fights when they want to. It seemed like they got the dream reunion, not the reality reunion.
I agree. Jamie and Claire certainly do not have any kind of a 'reality' reunion. Everything about them has a star crossed and larger than life AND elements of real people you can relate to aspect to them. I think that is what makes them so compelling. An awful lot happens to them, and neither one is particularly good at listening. Better at making up!
Well, as Claire said later, she had had months to prepare for returning to Jamie. He had had no time whatsoever to prepare for her return. He was in shock. His life was very busy with many different people. He could not suddenly stop everything and shut down all that he was involved in, to spend time with her. He must have been very confused about what to tell her immediately and what to hold back until there would be sufficient time for longer explanations. He could not really know how she might react to anything. I'm amazed he was able to react to her coming back with any degree of sanity. She knew she had to jump in and go along with things until there was time for a proper reunion. It was very realistic I thought.
Barbara wrote: "Well, as Claire said later, she had had months to prepare for returning to Jamie. He had had no time whatsoever to prepare for her return. He was in shock. His life was very busy with many diffe..."
Barbara, those are great comments and totally help me "digest" how it all played out! Thanks.
Barbara, those are great comments and totally help me "digest" how it all played out! Thanks.
True. I was hoping for more a little later though. They had quiet time (especially at sea) when they could have both realized that this wouldn't be as easy as they'd hoped. In some ways, it could have echoed their early days, when they were feeling each other out before finally finding their groove. There are hints of Jamie wondering what Claire went through during their time apart, but he never seems to ask her or to act as though she has told him at some point that we weren't shown. Does he care what it was like for her?
The part where she sees Jamie and John hug exposed a big weakness in their relationship at that point. They didn't truly know each other the way they once had. And this wasn't just in her head, since it led to the Willie revelation. But as with their Lallybroch fight, the air was let out of the moment without properly addressing it between Claire and Jamie. Instead, John drops that bomb and she has fully processed it by the time she sees Jamie again. From there, they move on pretty quickly
Voyager missed a lot of those character moments because DG monkey-barred from one big action adventure moment to the next. DoA slowed it down a little and allowed some of the characters to shine and provided some honest drama.
Just not between Jamie and Claire. There will be moments when Jamie hears Bree say something about unhappy marriages or something like that where Jamie will seem to wonder what Claire went through. But he never asks her about those years. She knows all about the misery of his life and has to live with the fallout. He just shrugs off what she went through.
Claire's perspective isn't fully fleshed out in the later parts of DoA, once Bree shows up. Claire comes across as an observer, with none of her normal passion or attitude. She doesn't express much emotion over Roger's situation, though he is a friend. She doesn't react much when Jamie and Ian are accusing Bree of some pretty nasty things.
She didn't even force Jamie to give Roger a minute to think things through after they rescued him. The man had spent months sick, abused, starved and fearing for his life. Then Jamie dumps the Bree news in his lap and rides away before Roger can even process the fact that he is free. And Claire doesn't do anything to stop Jamie from leaving Roger alone in the middle of nowhere, with little idea of how to get home.
I like the story beats themselves, but Claire seems unusually passive.
Kyle wrote: "One last question. Is there a rule that says that someone needs to be raped in every one of these books? It seems to happen quite often, to both genders."Yeah, what is with all the raping and attempted raping? Seriously, the plot can't move forward without a rape?
Kyle wrote: "True. I was hoping for more a little later though. They had quiet time (especially at sea) when they could have both realized that this wouldn't be as easy as they'd hoped. In some ways, it could h..."I just started DoA and I'm a little frustrated with the Stephen the Pirate plot. Skimming through the comments, I see I'm just going to be more aggravated by it.
By the way, how many times are these people going to be attacked and robbed by marauders? Four books in and I'm kind of over it now.
Starting with Voyager though, I've noticed that Claire is an incredibly unreliable narrator almost like the girlfriend that wants you to be envious of the hot guy she's dating but is reluctant to share how troubled their relationship really is. You get glimpses of Claire's jealousy or concern but she never acts upon it. She doesn't really ask Jamie many questions - partly out of fear, I believe - until something earth-shattering happens like (view spoiler). He's reluctant to share as well. And to me, those events seem like they should have resulted in much more explosive arguments. But instead, Jamie and Claire seem resigned not to rehash their time apart in favor of living in the moment during the time they have together. Maybe that's the point. Neither of them can change what happened in that 20-year gap, so why let it hang over them now that they're reunited?
Another thought I had on this is that we, the readers, already got both sides of the story. Maybe DG didn't feel like boring us with blowout arguments rehashing what we already know.
I'm with the 'they thought they'd never see each other again, so don't poison the future with the past' camp. And as for John, I love him. He's honest about how he feels for Jamie and is completely non-malicious and he accepts there will be nothing but friendship. If Leghair needed a bed, she would start creating havoc just to be a bitch because she was hurt and didn't get her own way. In C&J's place, I wouldn't let her past the milking barn if she was dying of hypothermia. 'there's the hay, go bury yourself in it!'.
Kyle wrote: "It is weird that everyone seems to walk right past Claire and swoon over Jamie, no matter which sex they are. Maybe it's because I'm picturing Caitriona Balfe in my head for Claire, but that just s..."Not really, Dougal was attracted to her. In Paris many were attracted it was Jamie keeping them at a distance. Then there is Tom Christy and later even (view spoiler). So that's quite a few. Of course Claire was not interested in any of them except for Frank of course.
Kyle wrote: "I liked Voyager, but it seemed like a lot of emotional baggage was lost in transit. at one point, they are venting anger at each other so violently that Jamie *almost* comes across a little rapist-y. "Well Jamie and Claire both want to dominate each other in that fight, as she said. She for him sending her away, her for going, she for Leoghaire, he for Frank. They were always using sex as their way to own each other body and soul. So I took this as just more of that, not a rapist but someone who wants to keep her by re-triggering that sexual response again that he knows is in there. She basically admits that to Jenny after he leaves. I think the point is though they both know it's only ever been them, and the pain of the years of being apart may come out but it will never really separate them again if they can help it. We had enough of them being apart, at this point I just wanted them together.
Kyle wrote: "True. I was hoping for more a little later though. They had quiet time (especially at sea) when they could have both realized that this wouldn't be as easy as they'd hoped. In some ways, it could h..."I think they do get into it later and Jamie says he doesn't want to know about her time with Frank because he's very jealous of the man. Claire kept Franks ring, she didn't look for him until Frank was dead, so it was logical for Jamie to think Claire and Franks life was good.
I read into that Jamie's knowing would of made him more jealous every time he was with Claire so Jamie didn't want to know about Frank.
As for Claire not telling Jamie, she knew Jamie well, how he never forgets anything and feels responsible for everything. She goes into it a little but for Jamie's sake she doesn't want him to have to take that on too.
As for her not standing up to Jamie over Roger or Bree for that matter, she knows Jamie is from another time and the morals of those times are very different. Claire can't put herself between Bree and Jamie, they need to work it out themselves Claire loves them both. And though she does try to get Jamie to see reason over Roger, she knows he can't be reasonable when angry so she goes off with him and later address it.
Actually I was a bit annoyed at Roger's response to learning Bree was raped and may not be able to go back. To Jamie if you love someone you sacrifice all for them. He expected that of Roger and I expected it too of Roger. Eventually Roger does do that, but that initial doubt he had caused his riff with Bree. Jamie blames the rape on Roger for not making sure Bree was in his care before he left her. Jamie is a protective father, whose moral code is very different from Rogers, very different from Bree and Claire's too. Claire can bring Jamie around at times but it doesn't change who he is. He is a man of the 18th century with all that implies.
Lauren wrote: "Kyle wrote: "One last question. Is there a rule that says that someone needs to be raped in every one of these books? It seems to happen quite often, to both genders."Yeah, what is with all the r..."
There is an awful lot of rapes in these books & they are equally shared by men, women and children too (view spoiler). I heard DG describe once why the Wentworth rapes which was interesting from a authors point of view and part of a formula writers use to keep interest in the story. She said something to the effect that an author wants some situation really bad to happen to be overcome, and that's what came to her to show the depth of Claire's love for Jamie, and Jamie's ability to overcome even the worse adversary situation. I guess as the novels were successful, the formula worked. Then it got repeated over and over again, just with different antagonists, different people to save. etc. With 25 million books sold I guess she has a point.
MJ wrote: "I'm with the 'they thought they'd never see each other again, so don't poison the future with the past' camp. And as for John, I love him. He's honest about how he feels for Jamie and is complete..."
I agree I love Lord John's character. He's gay he knows he loves Jamie but can never have him. He finds out the friendship is even more valuable to him. He does things for Bree, Claire, William to honor his friendship with Jamie. He's a very honorable and thoughtful man. I like that it shows that gay doesn't translate into bad.. that they are just people like everyone else (some good LJG, some bad BJR)
That being good and gay may means you'd have to work out how to fit that into the world around you, a world that didn't accept that at all in those days and even today. So it's a bit about the morals of the time, and the morals of today too clashing. Same with Slavery and Claire's friendship with Jo Abernathy and Bree with his son. It brings all those things that people are still working towards in terms of equality to light, and shows how we have progressed and how much further we have to go still.
Brizo wrote: There is an awful lot of rapes in these books & they are equally shared by men, women and children too... "I did not have an issue with the plot device in Outlander mostly because there's kind of an establishment of how women are treated and viewed in the 18th century versus the 20th century. Claire had (and in my opinion) and continues to have throughout the series the attitude that she can act however she wants in the 18th century and it gets her into numerous sticky situations. That naivety had an impact on Brianna as well. But in the first book, it was BJR doing the attacking along with a few unwanted others (English soldiers, etc.) and there's opportunity for others to come to Claire's rescue even though she acts like she didn't need it. Everyone loves to hate BJR because he's the antagonist and foil.
What happens to young Fergus in DIA is a catalyst event that sets up the duel with BJR and subsequent miscarriage. But some of the other rapes and attempted rapes just get annoying and gratuitous. The collection of young boys in Voyager was disturbing and it didn't really get any satisfactory explanation.
I haven't gotten to the violation of Brianna yet. But I'm having such a hard time with Drums of Autumn as it is, I really don't mind the spoilers. It's kind of giving me a reason to keep chugging along.
I'm in Part 7 of Drums of Autumn and I shaking my head at the total selfishness of Jamie to force Claire and Ian to stay on the mountain with no provisions or shelter. And this is all based on being too proud to be Jocasta Cameron's heir and taking over her land, business, and slaves. If it were me, I probably wouldn't be pleased about "owning" another person. But considering the day and age, it makes a whole heck of a lot more sense to do what Auntie Jocasta wants for the time being while you build up some capital. I understand Jamie's hubris and pride over being on the mountain. He gave up his property in Scotland for the greater good of his family and tenants. Jamie wants to work the land and care for his people - he says as much from the beginning of the series. It's natural to want to get that back, but at what cost? Right now, it feels incredibly reckless (not like anything else in the books haven't been entirely reckless). There is so much more at stake.
At this point, I don't think I'm going to make it to The Fiery Cross. Feeling kind of angry over it...
Lauren wrote: "I'm in Part 7 of Drums of Autumn and I shaking my head at the total selfishness of Jamie to force Claire and Ian to stay on the mountain with no provisions or shelter. And this is all based on bein..."
HI Lauren! Well, I am only on Voyager, but like you, I have been enjoying reading the spoilers in the books to come. I feel like it actually helps me while reading the book. I watched the Starz series first before I decided to read Oultander. Of course, I am so glad I did start the series but boy, it is a commitment! I have read all of the comments about the rapes, etc and really appreciate the discussion. So thanks for your comments and I think I will probably find myself agreeing with you when I get to this book.
HI Lauren! Well, I am only on Voyager, but like you, I have been enjoying reading the spoilers in the books to come. I feel like it actually helps me while reading the book. I watched the Starz series first before I decided to read Oultander. Of course, I am so glad I did start the series but boy, it is a commitment! I have read all of the comments about the rapes, etc and really appreciate the discussion. So thanks for your comments and I think I will probably find myself agreeing with you when I get to this book.
Nancy wrote: "Lauren wrote: "I'm in Part 7 of Drums of Autumn and I shaking my head at the total selfishness of Jamie to force Claire and Ian to stay on the mountain with no provisions or shelter. And this is al..."Hey Nancy! I came to the books because of the Starz show, too! They are definitely a commitment. I may take a break after this one and read some other - shorter - books on my list next. These books are so long, that it seems like a breeze to read a 200-250 page book in a day or two.
Lauren, about being angry with Jamie about Fraser's Ridge - I recommend pushing through your anger at him. You will see that Jamie made the right decision. After one or two tough years, the family is better off, for a while, but DG always has some trials and tribulations for the characters. You know the American Revolution is coming and that rears its ugly head. How they ALL cope with what life throws into their path is what's so fascinating to me.
Arlene wrote: "Lauren, about being angry with Jamie about Fraser's Ridge - I recommend pushing through your anger at him. You will see that Jamie made the right decision. After one or two tough years, the fami..."Obviously if there weren't complications, there really wouldn't be a book to read. I'm not angry at Jamie as a character, per se. I'm frustrated that the characters occasionally make decisions that are not rooted in sense whatsoever. Sure, it makes for an interesting plot, but sometimes I just scratch my head and wonder why they are so completely unconventional.
But I digress. The Indians are interesting. And i can honestly say I'm a little more interested in the Brianna and Roger drama right now.
Lauren wrote: "I'm in Part 7 of Drums of Autumn and I shaking my head at the total selfishness of Jamie to force Claire and Ian to stay on the mountain with no provisions or shelter. And this is all based on bein..."Jamie doesn't want Jo estate for several reasons. 1) Claire told him she can't own slaves. 2) He says he know what it's like to live as a slave and he would not want to have someone feel about him the way he felt about the people who owned him. 3)He know Jo, would still own everything until she died and she only wanted a man to do what she tells him. He doesn't feel he could be subservient to her. He knows how the Mackenzies are and they would clash too much. 4)He hates the heat and wants to live in a mountain. 5)He wants the land to help give his men from Ardsmoor prison a place to come to once their indenture service is over. 6)He knows he can make a home for them there. Claire agree's to stay there Jamie didn't make her, although she has doubts about it, it's mostly because of the grave in Scotland. She thinks if they stay there, he will go back to Scotland to get settlers for the land, and he will be killed there. But he convinces her that's not the case and she knows that's the only place for him. She's willing to do that for the man she loves. I think it's not selfish of Jamie but more his vision for making a new life in this new world where he knows he can be free of the English.
Lauren wrote: "The collection of young boys in Voyager was disturbing and it didn't really get any satisfactory explanation."Are you talking about the 12 boy's Geillis takes. (view spoiler)
I didn't think Brianna's rape was gratuitous, it made for some interesting comparisons between her and Jamie's after effects from the rape. It gave them a new antagonist, in Bonnet (as BJR is dead). It also gives the story some interesting adventures in the after rape story. So that one I didn't think was a bad addition, the one I really don't like comes in a later book.
Lauren wrote: "Nancy wrote: "Lauren wrote: "I'm in Part 7 of Drums of Autumn and I shaking my head at the total selfishness of Jamie to force Claire and Ian to stay on the mountain with no provisions or shelter. ..."May I suggest going to you local library and get the audio book on CD's it's goes really fast listening to it and Divna Porter the narrator does such a fantastic job with character voices. I couldn't imagine reading these books..
Diane wrote: "I think he did because Claire told him of the changeling story before he went through the stones. I think that is why he had the soft spot for Morag. Do you remember when the family first tried to ..."I don't think he knew when he was on Bonnet's boat when he saved them but later in DoA he ask Claire if she knew what the changeling babies mother's name was and Claire tells him it was Morag. That's when he connects that the women he met on his boat was his GGGGgrandmother and the baby his GGGgrandfather.
Natalie ♥︎♥︎for the love of TBH!♥︎♥︎ wrote: "I loved this book! Probably my favorite with book 3&6!"I was just wondering what order other people liked these books the best. I liked Outlander best, but after that I think I like DoA second best, then Voyager, then DiA, then Moby, then Echo, then ABS&A, least favorite was Fiery Cross.
Brizo wrote: "Lauren wrote: "Kyle wrote: "One last question. Is there a rule that says that someone needs to be raped in every one of these books? It seems to happen quite often, to both genders."Yeah, what is..."
Brizo wrote: "Kyle wrote: "It is weird that everyone seems to walk right past Claire and swoon over Jamie, no matter which sex they are. Maybe it's because I'm picturing Caitriona Balfe in my head for Claire, bu..."
I would agree that the books are a formula and well received worldwide, but it does get repetitive after a while. You would think DG could come up with some other form of antagonism by time we get to book 8 other than rape.
Lauren wrote: "Arlene wrote: "Lauren, about being angry with Jamie about Fraser's Ridge - I recommend pushing through your anger at him. You will see that Jamie made the right decision. After one or two tough ..."I think the young Bree and Roger sort of replaces the young Jamie and Claire, but I like them both. I love even an older Jamie and Claire, I like they can still get passionate with each other at their age.
Outlander Series
Books mentioned in this topic
Drums of Autumn (other topics)Drums of Autumn (other topics)
Drums of Autumn (other topics)
The Scottish Prisoner (other topics)
Cold Mountain (other topics)
