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SERIES—List & Discussions > Wars of Light & Shadow--Peril's Gate - Ch IV, V, VI - SPOILERS!

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message 1: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments In the building stages, the plot thickens: What is Selide up to? What are her motivations, as Prime, now that she has a dagger at her back (in Lirenda) - and what do you feel about Elaira's dilemma.

Read closely - before the intensity of the next three sets blows away the fine points in this section...


message 2: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Well, Selidie/Morriel as I call her, has little choice but to blunt the dagger Lirenda poses. Her body switch was apparently illegal and Lirenda knows it.

Elaira, bless her valiant heart, defies Selidie Prime. I can't help but think there's a loophole in Selidie's oath to never force her to betray Arithon. It says 'in the interests of the Koriani Order' so that must be the out. Selidie can force her to betray Arithon in her own, Selidie's interest.

Elaira's dilemma, as usual, is how to follow the love of her heart without betraying him. I wish to hell she'd ask the Fellowship for help!

It's hard for me to speculate about what Selidie's up to without betraying the future plot as I've read through to Stormed Fortress.


message 3: by Charles (new)

Charles (charliewhip) | 141 comments To me, Morriel's actions vis a vis Seledie are not quite as simply evil as I once believed. I can see where, at one point, following Lirenda's failures, she felt the body-snatch was the only way to ensure the continuance of Koriathain leadership. Pretty much a classic example of doing the WRONG thing for the right reason...end justifies the means , and all that. Morriel's relationship with Elaira seems strange and complex. She hesitates to reign her in, seeks to exploit her relationship with Arithon, but Elaira seems to subvert that course, at every turn.


message 4: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Charles wrote: "To me, Morriel's actions vis a vis Seledie are not quite as simply evil as I once believed. I can see where, at one point, following Lirenda's failures, she felt the body-snatch was the only way t..."

She really does seem to appreciate Elaira's initiative and creativity, doesn't she? While poor Lirenda steams. Ha.


message 5: by Jon (new)

Jon (jonmoss) | 626 comments I cheered Elaira as she stood up to Selidie. And when she 'prayed' or 'called' to Sethvir hoping his earth-sense would hear her plea. And I nearly fainted as she was about to drop her personal crystal into the tin of saltwater. My heart nearly stopped when the adept prevented her. I am hopeful she continues down this path of freeing herself from the K.O.


message 6: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Jon wrote: "I cheered Elaira as she stood up to Selidie. And when she 'prayed' or 'called' to Sethvir hoping his earth-sense would hear her plea. And I nearly fainted as she was about to drop her personal cr..."

::fist in air:: YES!! Although that damned crystal.... that damned crystal.....::duct tape::


message 7: by orannia (new)

orannia I'm still reading these chapter sets, but...I thought it was interesting that Lirenda warned Elaira about Selidie/Morriel. I still want Lirenda to realise that people are not her pawns - what she did to the poor men of Jaelot was...unpardonable! I worry that Selidie will try and hogtie Lirenda to stop her from saying anything..

As for Elaira! What a journey for her (a journey she's still on). What she almost did to her crystal (I had a flashback to what happened when Caoelle did that!). I do love how her crystal sees her as a companion...that broke my heart. I wonder how Lirenda's crystal views Lirenda....

And as the unicorn! OMG! See, I have a theory. It has been proven that Paravian wards can hold out against the wraiths, but yet the Paravians withdrew from the continent. They are obviously still on Athera though, and hiding from the Fellowship. My 'theory' is that this is deliberate. The wraiths were once human...and thus it is up to humans to grant them release. In a way I think it is a test...a test of humanity.

And I find it rather interesting that Davien has popped his head out and...being that Elaira saw spellcraft around the men of Jaelot...'interferring'. If he was so sure that the high kings were flawed, he has had ample opportunity to kill Arithon and Lsyaer. He hasn't, but he's obviously following Arithon. He's up to something! (Obvious statement of the century :)

And I know this post is long, but...poor Ellaira. She knows now what she is up against. The question is, what is she going to do... Interestingly, I can see definite parallels between us...and the choices we have to make.


message 8: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments orannia wrote: "I'm still reading these chapter sets, but...I thought it was interesting that Lirenda warned Elaira about Selidie/Morriel. I still want Lirenda to realise that people are not her pawns - what she d..."

Did you, or anyone, notice What event caused Davien to break his isolation?

For discussion, might you mention the parallels you saw?


message 9: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Orannia, don't forget Elaira has been given her longevity by the Fellowship and thus would not experience the same devastating effects as the other poor woman did from Caolle dropping her crystal into salt water.


message 10: by Jon (new)

Jon (jonmoss) | 626 comments orannia wrote: "And as the unicorn! OMG! See, I have a theory. It has been proven that Paravian wards can hold out against the wraiths, but yet the Paravians withdrew from the continent. They are obviously still on Athera though, and hiding from the Fellowship. My 'theory' is that this is deliberate. The wraiths were once human...and thus it is up to humans to grant them release. In a way I think it is a test...a test of humanity. "

I just read this subchapter this afternoon. And I remember posting something somwhere on GoodReads in a discussion thread about if a member of the K.O. could stand before a Paravian, they would probably cease to be a K.O. I feel somewhat vindicated and relieved that Elaira was found worthy.


message 11: by orannia (new)

orannia Did you, or anyone, notice What event caused Davien to break his isolation?

I spent all day thinking about this. I even went back to the beginning of Peril's Gate, but I think the event was at the end of Grand Conspiracy. Have no idea what, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say I think it has something to do with a decision Arithon made...how vague is that :) Can anyone else remember?

Jon - for some reason I thought it was not just to do with strength of character, but also with purity of spirit. And I can't imagine Elaira is the only one in the Koriani like she is.


message 12: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments orannia wrote: "Did you, or anyone, notice What event caused Davien to break his isolation?

I spent all day thinking about this. I even went back to the beginning of Peril's Gate, but I think the event was at t..."


It's indicated both in Grand Conspiracy, and also, slipped into Peril's Gate. Not Arithon's doing...


message 13: by Stefan, Group Founder + Moderator (Retired) (new)

Stefan (sraets) | 1667 comments Mod
Janny, I think you asked me if I spotted this before, and I still don't know what it was. Talk about a series that rewards a re-read or two...

I'm kinda jealous of the people who are going through this novel for the first time - it's a wild ride. I'm hoping to jump into the discussion when we get to the next book in the series... schedule permitting...


message 14: by orannia (new)

orannia *heads desk* I looked in Peril's Gate, but obviously was completely oblivious :( If I suggest anyone/anything else I'll be randomly guessing....does it pop up again? Maybe if I'm actively looking it will be more obvious?

Oh, I thought Kevor's comment near the end of this chapter set very interesting:

Since time beyond memory, Fellowship spellcraft had always contained the escaped packs of Khadrim.

Not exactly the company line :)

And can I just say...I'm finding this third three chapter sets difficult to read. Everything is becoming very...grim :(


message 15: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments orannia wrote: "*heads desk* I looked in Peril's Gate, but obviously was completely oblivious :( If I suggest anyone/anything else I'll be randomly guessing....does it pop up again? Maybe if I'm actively looking i..."

Yes, very grim. But also very exciting, nail biting, heart pounding, oh no, oh no, ooooh in relief.....


message 16: by Sandra (last edited Jan 22, 2011 07:46PM) (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Wasn't it something to do with the dragon eggs????? I had it in the past, but I've lost it again... but I'm pretty sure it was the dragon eggs.


message 17: by orannia (new)

orannia Dragon eggs? Oh...that Sulfin's uncle introduced to prevent Sethvir from hearing Avenor's discussions?


message 18: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments orannia wrote: "Dragon eggs? Oh...that Sulfin's uncle introduced to prevent Sethvir from hearing Avenor's discussions?"

Yes!


message 19: by orannia (new)

orannia *thinks* *starts flicking through Peril's Gate again* I don't remember mention of the dragon eggs in this book...


message 20: by orannia (new)

orannia OK. I don't have Grand Conspiracy to hand, but I've found reference that Davien watches Arithon flee. So, while we know he is watching Arithon we know from Janny that the event leading to Davien's...'appearance' is not of Arithon's doing...but that doesn't mean it isn't about him.... My head hurts.

Yes, very grim. But also very exciting, nail biting, heart pounding, oh no, oh no, ooooh in relief.....

See, ATM the character I'm most worried about isn't Arithon...


message 21: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments orannia wrote: "OK. I don't have Grand Conspiracy to hand, but I've found reference that Davien watches Arithon flee. So, while we know he is watching Arithon we know from Janny that the event leading to Davien's...."

Oh, I know... ;(


message 22: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments Allright: another hint.

The reference is in Grand Conspiracy. It is repeated as an observation of Sethvir's (he's disturbed by it) in Peril's Gate.

Davien leaves his refuge in Kewar; what occurred JUST PRIOR.

There is also a disturbing (connected) SCENE, even two, in Peril's Gate; however, given the main thrust of the action at that stage, even given it has center stage - it may still become overlooked.

Won't be, on a re-read for certain, as that aspect develops.

T'wasn't the embryonic dragon hatchling SKULLS.


message 23: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Bah! Foiled again!


message 24: by Jon (new)

Jon (jonmoss) | 626 comments Janny wrote: "Allright: another hint.

The reference is in Grand Conspiracy. It is repeated as an observation of Sethvir's (he's disturbed by it) in Peril's Gate.

Davien leaves his refuge in Kewar; what occurre..."


Just re-read the last two paragraphs of XII. Dire Portents in Grand Conspiracy:

(view spoiler)

I'm going to re-read (at least I hope I've already read it) Sethvir's scene(s) from Peril's Gate and see if I can glean anything.


message 25: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments Jon wrote: "Janny wrote: "Allright: another hint.

The reference is in Grand Conspiracy. It is repeated as an observation of Sethvir's (he's disturbed by it) in Peril's Gate.

Davien leaves his refuge in Kewar..."


In that chapter all right, but you've passed by it.


message 26: by Jon (new)

Jon (jonmoss) | 626 comments Janny wrote: "It is repeated as an observation of Sethvir's (he's disturbed by it) in Peril's Gate."

The last triplet of Catalysts might be what you're referencing. Not sure, because it's obscure:

(view spoiler)

Have I missed it?


message 27: by Jon (new)

Jon (jonmoss) | 626 comments Janny wrote: "In that chapter all right, but you've passed by it. "

Shoot. I'll backtrack as soon as I get this loaf of bread out of the oven.


message 28: by Jon (last edited Jan 23, 2011 03:57PM) (new)

Jon (jonmoss) | 626 comments Just re-read the entire Dire Portents chapter section. I'm still not sure which event triggered Davien's involvement. Here are my notes: http://www.goodreads.com/user_status/...


message 29: by orannia (new)

orannia I'll have a look over lunch - thank you for the hint Janny!


message 30: by Sandra (last edited Jan 23, 2011 04:18PM) (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Well, if not the dragon's eggs, then it has something to do with necromancy.... something that happened with Lysaer's priest in Avenor.
::Sleo sulking because she thought she knew the answer::


message 31: by orannia (new)

orannia I wondered that. If it was to do with the blood magic...and how Lysaer was being used. But...I also wondered if it was to do with Elaira...and her decision to steep beyond the confines of the Koriani.

Honestly, I've got no idea! *hands Sleo some popcorn*


message 32: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments orannia wrote: "I wondered that. If it was to do with the blood magic...and how Lysaer was being used. But...I also wondered if it was to do with Elaira...and her decision to steep beyond the confines of the Koria..."

Chomp chomp. I am rereading Peril's Gate tomorrow.


message 33: by Jon (last edited Jan 24, 2011 07:34AM) (new)

Jon (jonmoss) | 626 comments Janny wrote: "It is repeated as an observation of Sethvir's (he's disturbed by it) in Peril's Gate."

I just reread the first few pages of the Delirium subchapter (see my notes via my status update).


message 34: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Jon wrote: "Janny wrote: "It is repeated as an observation of Sethvir's (he's disturbed by it) in Peril's Gate."

I just reread the first few pagers of the Delirium subchapter (see my notes via my status update)."


+
Aha! Jon wins all the popcorn. :D


message 35: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments orannia wrote: "I wondered that. If it was to do with the blood magic...and how Lysaer was being used. But...I also wondered if it was to do with Elaira...and her decision to steep beyond the confines of the Koria..."

There. Your first reference pegs it. Jon's updates (with my comments) pegs the two precise passages...watch this thread in depth.


message 36: by orannia (new)

orannia Ohhhhhhh! *hands Jon and Janny the popcorn*


message 37: by Jon (last edited Jan 24, 2011 12:36PM) (new)

Jon (jonmoss) | 626 comments Janny wrote: "There. Your first reference pegs it. Jon's updates (with my comments) pegs the two precise passages...watch this thread in depth. "

So should I finish re-reading Delirium? I stopped once I found the applicable connection. :)

I'm resisting the urge to take notes as I read through Peril's Gate, knowing that someday I'll re-read the entire series very in depthly (is that a word?). I just can't bear to spoil the wonder this first time through by being overly analytical.


message 38: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Jon wrote: "Janny wrote: "There. Your first reference pegs it. Jon's updates (with my comments) pegs the two precise passages...watch this thread in depth. "

So should I finish re-reading Delirium? I stopped..."


Good lord, no! Don't reread first time through. There's time for that later after you've finished Stormed Fortress. Otherwise it becomes too much like work!


message 39: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments Jon wrote: "Janny wrote: "There. Your first reference pegs it. Jon's updates (with my comments) pegs the two precise passages...watch this thread in depth. "

So should I finish re-reading Delirium? I stopped..."


What Sandra said; definitely.


message 40: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments I'm just rereading this for X3, and was just struck by this sentence spoken by a member of Ath's brotherhood to Elaira when she enters the hostel, "A speaker to stone would have sung the right lines to lay the marble into alignment."

That just seems so natural - would that we knew how to speak to stones, huh?

I never noticed before how many of Ath's brotherhood are from Sanpashir. I'll bet this becomes significant at some point.


message 41: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments All right, it is Lysaer and his poopy priest in Dire Portents that wakens Davien in Grand Conspiracy. I knew it had SOMETHING to do with necromancy. I kept getting snagged by those dragon skulls... poor little babies.


message 42: by Shel, Moderator (new)

Shel (shel99) | 2361 comments Mod
Trucking along, finished this chapter set just now. Wow. I had a hunch when no scrap of Kevor remained that he wasn't actually dead, given his visitation from the old hedgewitch. Very interested to see how things play out, with a true s'Ilessid heir lodged with Ath's Brotherhood - how will his sense of justice play along with their faith as opposed to his loyalty to his father? I can't imagine he has much of a personal relationship with his father.

Loved the scenes with Elaira. She was wise to remove all temptation and send the crystal away so as not to give in and end up with Arithon owing a debt to the Koriani.

I miss the s'Brydion brothers. What are they up to? Hoping to encounter them again soon!


message 43: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Shel wrote: "Trucking along, finished this chapter set just now. Wow. I had a hunch when no scrap of Kevor remained that he wasn't actually dead, given his visitation from the old hedgewitch. Very interested..."

They're coming, they're coming. :)


message 44: by Alissa (last edited Mar 04, 2015 12:57AM) (new)

Alissa | 171 comments Thank you for the interesting insight! Now that I'm thinking about it, Davien is still a Fellowship Sorcerer, I guess he is still bound to the drake directives?
In ch XII Dire Portents of Grand Conspiracy (see Jon's status updates p. 452), this part puzzled me:
"Dark, shrewd eyes surveyed the image still held in suspended reflection: of a blond prince caught in the crux of duplicity as the geas of the Mistwraith's curse collided with the dictates of conscience, and again, deflected Athera's future". And then "before Lysaer s'Ilessid sealed his consent to his priest in the hinterlands of north Camris" (the plain of Camris falls "under interdict by the compact", I wonder if the fact bloodmagic was performed there has a consequence).
So, is it possible the spring-construct in Davien's chamber, that "recaptured in simultaneity" the event in Camris, reacted to the energies unleashed by Morriel, too, and only then showed what caused Davien to stir? Then again, Lysaer sanctioned then and there the practice of his acolyte because of the visible effects of Morriel's meddling.
Probably I'm thinking too much.
The dragon-skull ward usage (ch VIII, the stone elementals say to Luhaine "Has Athera's need sprung from the blight that opens a rift like a sore on the northwestern headland of Paravia?" so its pull was clearly felt) in Avenor didn't seem enough to interest Davien, but the use of bloodmagic yes. I wonder.

I'm much anticipating prince Kevor and Fionn Areth's future course of action, too.

@Sandra I never noticed before how many of Ath's brotherhood are from Sanpashir. I'll bet this becomes significant at some point Oh! Thank you! Speaking about that, there are several snippets with the desert tribe seers, and the culture of the Sanpashir Desert seems to be apart from all the other people's of the continent ((view spoiler))...again, so many questions!
One of the things I love in this series is just that, I immerse in reading, try to care for details because I like it and enjoy the flow. Then, when I'm not reading, say, showering, working on excel...I think about the plot, the characters, sometimes I remember earlier stuff and try to rethink them from a new angle, so whatever, simply double fun!
"'My ends can be served out of love, or from hatred' Selidie agreed in poisoned logic." How cool is that?
Looking forward to more Selidie-Lirenda-Elaira play!
Elaira is one of the strongest female characters I've ever read about. Period.

The current chapters are terribly grim. And absolutely compelling, I read IV to VI on the same day.


message 45: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Oh boy girl. You are really hooked! Your posts are luring me back to Athera!


message 46: by Alissa (new)

Alissa | 171 comments Sandra, thank you and all the others for your posts! I'm sorry I wasn't around when you discussed the series, it is great to compare impressions and thoughts.
Oh yes I'm totally and helplessly hooked, how did you figure it out????
Hope to see you back to Athera soon :)


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