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message 1: by L.A. (new)

L.A. Hilden (lahilden) | 44 comments When is it okay for your heroine to let the F-bomb fly? This came up in another blog I was on a few weeks back, and I thought to discuss it further on my site. The reason for this discussion is because one of the heroines in my Destiny Series, Desirea Leighton, a Hollywood starlit (think Brittany Spears or Lindsay Lohan but without all the trouble those two have managed to ensnare themselves in). Now my character Desirea is a modern day heroine swept back to Regency England and she has the worst potty mouth, in truth, cursing is part of her charm.

Of course, ladies never swore in Regency England, ah, I hate the word never, because I believe even the very best of lady’s had a reason to curse on occasion, I refuse to see it any other way. Anger can lead one to harsher words even if the word is as mild as damn, which brings me back to the biggest swear word of them all the F-bomb.

Does the f-word pull a reader out of a book? Are you personally offended if you see the f-word on the page? Perhaps this isn’t such an issue with contemporaries, but what if it’s found littered through the pages of a historical romance novel when the f-word is not expected?

This is the dilemma I’m facing on the writing front. I love Desirea’s character, she’s sassy, brave, and swears like a dockhand, but she’s great and I don’t want to change her. Her words are a part of who she is and her swearing has made for some very fun scenes. And yet I find myself wondering, should I change this one to frik, or should I substitute anther word altogether like the mild hell or damn. And what if hell or damn isn’t harsh enough. I’ve come to the conclusion that sometimes the f-word simply cannot be replaced or the power of the sentence disappears right along with it.

So what are your thoughts?
www.lahilden.com


message 2: by M.L. (new)

M.L. Bushman | 144 comments Why don't you look up the history of the F-word?

Did they even have the F-word during the time period your story is set in? Where did the word come from?

I seem to remember something about the word being an acronym printed above those put in the stocks For Using Carnal Knowledge (fornicating), but I could be mistaken. However, if that were the case, it could become a humorous sidelight in your story--imagine, a woman who swears like a dockhand in contemporary life suddenly waking up in the distant Victorian past where she sees this word, perhaps on a daily basis.

I would look the origin of the word up and go from there.


message 3: by L.A. (new)

L.A. Hilden (lahilden) | 44 comments Thank you everyone for your great comments. Desirea's Escape has already been written and as I said, I love her character. The f-word has been around since 1495, so it's an old word. I've counted and the f-bomb is used 12 times, but twice it is used in the middle of a word. Truthfully I've gone over this manuscript numerous times and feel each and every one of the f-bombs fit.


I've put in one of the para.below where the f-bomb comes up twice. This moment is when Desirea is frustrated by the Regency men who are suspicious of these two women who fell out of a hidden closet.

When Desirea saw London’s cheeks redden in embarrassment, her anger came to the surface. She stood up, and marched over to the big bear of a man, glaring up at him with hands on her hips. “Excuse me!” she huffed. “This may surprise you, dude. But I don’t give a flying fuck about you or your fucking establishment. This has been the worst day imaginable. And trust me; I’ve had many unimaginable days. I’m physically and mentally exhausted. And yet you stand there trying to accuse us of listening to some lame ass conversation that we have no interest in knowing. Surely you do not believe the entire universe revolves around you, do you, big guy?” She turned back to her friend London. “London, could you tell someone who understands, that I’m no longer interested in doing this photo-shoot. I no longer care how realistic they can make the damn scene. Besides,” she said with a wave toward the two men, the other had disappeared while she was unconscious, “they look ridiculous.”

So what do you think, this is the worst of her Vocabulary. Do you think those words in a historical romance will pull you out of the book?


message 4: by Mark (new)

Mark Adair (markadairauthor) | 7 comments Chiming in a bit late but I'm with Abby. It's just another word. Putting certain verbs or adjectives or adverbs into a different category like that makes very little sense to me. It's just language and people use it, some more than others.

Having said that, I do believe it should be consistent with the character, the general tone of the story, and avoided if a historical context doesn't support the regular use of those words...which, of course, applies across the board.

Mark
Mark Adair


message 5: by Gemma (new)

Gemma | 12 comments Mark wrote: "Chiming in a bit late but I'm with Abby. It's just another word. Putting certain verbs or adjectives or adverbs into a different category like that makes very little sense to me. It's just language..."

I agree with Mark. Whatever language you use should fit in with the story. I'm always annoyed when I read a book set in, let's say, the 17th century, and the characters use modern slang. As for using "hell" and "damn" as alternatives, well, sometimes those words just aren't strong enough. I'd try to use salty language like real salt -- just enough to give it what it needs without making it unpalatable.


message 6: by M.L. (new)

M.L. Bushman | 144 comments L.A.,

I don't think you can really call this story a historical romance. Your basic premise is time travel. Without the time travel, you have no story, right?

So, what does that make your story really? Cross-genre? Fantasy built on elements of historical romance?

Mari


message 7: by KumeKei (new)

KumeKei I think you could use your character foul language to your benefit.
Yes she's a potty mouth now but being in Regency England is a chance to change her a bit, litle by litle.

And regarding the origin of the F word, for what I came to understand it started being used somewhere around the XV century when you couldn't have sex just cause you wanted. Therefore a sign would be put on your door when you were in the act of reproducing with the words "Fornication Under Consentment of the King".(I could be wrong, but imagine having to go ask the king to start a family, visualise that talk... weird!)


message 8: by L.A. (new)

L.A. Hilden (lahilden) | 44 comments I'm sorry, Mari,I don't know if I'm understanding your question correctly. This story is a time-travel where the starlit Desirea Leighton is swept back to the Regency Period, which in turn makes it a historical, but with a couple of modern day characters. There is another character introduced later in the story and she has telepathic abilities, which in turn brings in paranormal elements. So, yes, it would be considered cross-genre. Desirea would have had a story without the time-travel element though, she's a very feisty character.

Kumekei, no, I couldn't imagine asking the king's permission for sex. And you are right, Desirea does realize her potty mouth must stop, it is one of many things she must change or else she will never fit in.

Thanks so much for your comments everyone. I've posted this question on a few sites and most seem to be fine with the f-word in moderation. Truthfully, to portray her character correctly the cursing must stay, it is a part of who she is, at least in the beginning. (:


message 9: by Mark (new)

Mark Johansen | 24 comments The story about the f-word being an acronym is an urban legend. Someone just made it up to be funny.

But to the main point: In my humble opinion, I suggest you avoid using foul language.

Film critic Michael Medved once commented -- and this is not an exact quote, just quoting from memory -- "I never heard someone leaving a movie say,
'Well, that could have been a good movie, but they just didn't use the f-word enough.'"

His point was that some people -- myself included -- find it extremely offensive. If I'm reading a book and there is a lot of vulgar language, I throw it away. I find it distasteful and I just don't want to read it. Maybe it is "just words". Apricots are just food, but I don't like them, so I don't eat them.

Yes, there are plenty of people who feel it's "just words" and don't care. But will these people throw a book away because it doesn't have enough vulgar language? I doubt it.

How many people will not buy a book because it includes vulgar language, versus how many will not buy a book because it fails to include vulgar language?

People sometimes say that they need vulgar language for realism. Sure, if you have a scene where the drug dealing hoodlum discovers that he's been betrayed, it wouldn't seem very realistic if he shouts, "You mean person! You make me want to cry inside." But he could just as well say, "You're going to die for this!" or all sorts of harsh statements that do not involve profanity.


message 10: by M.L. (new)

M.L. Bushman | 144 comments Mark,

There is such a thing as being true to the character, even if you don't like him or her or what they do or what they say.

No gang member is ever going to say, "You're going to die for this!" Ever met any gang members? I have. And to translate "You're going to die for this" into their slang is You're fucking dead, motherfucker.

Now, throw this post away. And please, don't write about gang members.

Your morals are not necessarily the same morals as your characters. But your writing will lack that ring of truth if you bend your characters to fit your conception of moral.

Not saying you have to use profanity in your writing, just saying that to avoid being offended you shouldn't write about characters who would, if suddenly come to real life, ordinarily opt to be profane and even vulgar at times.

You are your book's first reader, after all.

Mari


message 11: by L.A. (new)

L.A. Hilden (lahilden) | 44 comments A big thank you to everyone for your wonderful comments. Desirea's Quest isn't being released until the end of the year, so I still have time to reread the dozen f-bombs that come up and see if they fit. The problem now becomes where to place it, some say it should be Sci-fi Romance, but I was placing it in the time-travel genre. There are also paranormal elements in this book, whereas there's no paranormal elements in the first book of this series. So what genre do you place a time-travel romance that takes place in Regency England, but has a telepath enter the scene as the villian?


message 12: by Shirley (new)

Shirley McLain (shirleymclain) | 8 comments Hi, I just found your blog and I feel I have to comment. This is not a rant just a matter of fact. I was raised to think the F-bomb as you so nicely put it, was the filthest word in the human language. I was shocked when I heard it being used so much. It was never used in my mothers house or in mine, or around me. I for one will turn off a tv show or close a book if it contains a lot of obscienties. Over the years I have to admit my shock as lessened, due to exposure, but it does not make me like hearing or reading it any more. I could really care less when the word started being used, it just has no place in my vocabulary.


message 13: by J. Rosemary (new)

J. Rosemary Moss (jrosemarymoss) | 9 comments I'm fine with obscenities, as long as they fit the character--which seems to be the case here. :)


message 14: by Mark (new)

Mark Johansen | 24 comments Ever met any gang members? I have.

Well, I don't want to argue about it. If you disagree, okay. But I have to laugh. Why do you assume I've never met a gang member? My wife and I once took in a teenage girl who was pregnant by a young man who was in a gang and in and out of prison. On another occasion we took in a homeless young man whose brother was convicted of murder -- I never met the brother in person but I talked to him on the phone. Oh, and we had another young lady whose father was a drug dealer and whose boyfriend was killed in the crossfire of a gang fight. So yeah, I've met some gang members.

And yes, their language was generally vulgar. But not always. Actually in general I think it was less vulgar than what I routinely heard in college. In any case, so what? If I'm reading a story set in ancient Rome, to be "true to the characters" all the dialogue should be in Latin, right? If I'm reading a story about a police detective, most of the story should be about filling out paperwork, right?

More seriously, if I was writing a story intended to be an inspiring account of someone overcoming serious medical problems, it may well be that the disease has many extremely unpleasant symptoms. Does this mean that to be believable the story must describe in explicit detail every scab, every bodily secretion, every odor, etc etc? Such a story would surely be highly distasteful. Maybe if done right it could heighten the contrast between the horror of the disease and the hero's triumph in overcoming it. But more likely, it would simply make the book so ugly that it would turn readers away.

Was Star Wars less interesting because we didn't see the bloody mangled bodies of the people killed in the space battles? Was Casablanca a failure because we didn't see close-ups of Bogie and Bacall's private parts in a torrid sex scene? I think not.

I stand by my original statement.


message 15: by J. Rosemary (last edited Jan 10, 2011 07:32PM) (new)

J. Rosemary Moss (jrosemarymoss) | 9 comments Mark wrote: Film critic Michael Medved once commented -- and this is not an exact quote, just quoting from memory -- "I never heard someone leaving a movie say,
'Well, that could have been a good movie, but they just didn't use the f-word enough.'"

His point was that some people -- myself included -- find it extremely offensive. If I'm reading a book and there is a lot of vulgar language, I throw it away. I find it distasteful and I just don't want to read it. Maybe it is "just words". Apricots are just food, but I don't like them, so I don't eat them.


I've been thinking about this, and wondering if the fact that some people won't read a book with obscenities is a good enough reason to leave them out. Whatever you write, it's not going to please everyone.

In-character obscenities (that fit the context) tend to make dialogue more convincing for me; apparently it turns you off. This isn't a right or wrong issue--it's just a question of taste. Since an author can't please both of us, I think she should go with her gut and use the language that she thinks fits her characters.


message 16: by KumeKei (new)

KumeKei I don't know if theres that much of a cultural diference from where I am (Portugal) to wherever you are but here the F word and other profanities are taken in a lighter spirit.
In some regions a number of curses are part of the dialect and are considered normal speech.
I think you had your advices and this discussion is taking a new direction.
The point is, who's your target reader? Will they get offended by profanity or not? Do you really care if they are offended or do you want your character to be have depth? Most people curse (maybe not in social situations but...)
I think words are just words and the importance they get is the one you give them.
I could read the most offensive, nasty and gruesome text and not even flinch.
But that's me...


message 17: by J. Rosemary (last edited Jan 11, 2011 05:03AM) (new)

J. Rosemary Moss (jrosemarymoss) | 9 comments Kumekei wrote: The point is, who's your target reader? Will they get offended by profanity or not?

Exactly. If someone who would never have read a time-travel book about a Hollywood starlit anyway doesn't like cursing in novels, it won't make a difference to your writing.

So figuring out your target readers is great advice. Not that you can't push their boundaries (or your own) a little, but the unspoken language limits in other books in your genre should give you a rough idea of your potential readers' expectations.


message 18: by L.A. (new)

L.A. Hilden (lahilden) | 44 comments Thank you for your comments everyone. My target audience would be the Historical Romance readers. This is what I read and what I write. But I've never read a time-travel where the herione is sent back in time to the Regency period, which is why I posed this question. As a matter of fact, none of the time-travels I've read have the herione say anything worse then sh*t. The f-word isn't used in the books I read, and yet my herione is from the 21st century and she swears like a dockhand, it is a part of who she is and it is something she has to work at to overcome.
Do I worry Desirea's swearing will make readers unsympathetic to her? Yes, but I feel her occasional swearing doesn't portray her as a villain, to me it makes her real. Whether you like the f-bomb or not, there are many who use it(some far too often). And I agree the shock factor lessens the more its heard. In the end I must stay true to Desirea's character. And although you can't please everyone, it's still nice to try. :) I loved all the comments, it is nice to gather different opinions, so thanks so much.


message 19: by M.L. (new)

M.L. Bushman | 144 comments Mark,

Perhaps I should rephrase the question: have you ever hung out with any gang members on their own turf and not yours? Have you ever hung out with a group of them when they're with their homies and you're not helping one of them out, or feeding their pregnant girlfriend, i.e. you're just another guy they don't owe, not even the time of day? No, they don't curse all the time, just a lot of the time.

I don't see any reason to go all extreme here. Being true to your characters is what any top writer would suggest.

Like I said--you don't have to use profanity in your writing, nor do you have to read it, or watch it, or listen to it.

And no, for a book set in ancient Rome, being written in English, the characters shouldn't speak Latin, but they could adhere to the customs of their times or whatever the research might yield; nor should a story about a police detective be all about paperwork, even though in real life they do a hell of a lot of it. But a little research into forensics or crime scene investigation wouldn't hurt, would it? You act like what I suggested about being true to your characters is threatening somehow.

I personally don't have a problem with profanity. But I've learned that the intent behind the words is far more important than what words are chosen to convey a message.

All writers should write what they feel comfortable writing. A writer has to write for themselves first or it just won't be any fun at all.

Mari


message 20: by Toni (new)

Toni Nelson (goodreadscomtoninelson) | 1 comments M.L. wrote: "Mark,

Perhaps I should rephrase the question: have you ever hung out with any gang members on their own turf and not yours? Have you ever hung out with a group of them when they're with their homi..."


I believe as a writer and author, my writings are a direct reflection of who I am. Simply put, if an author is using obscenities in their books then they are more than likely expressing obscenities in their everyday life. As an author, one becomes extremely vulnerable to scrutiny, fiction or non-fiction. I am an advocate for the homeless population and I have heard plenty of what I refer to as distasteful grammar, however you will not find it in my book.


A Beggars Purse by Toni Nelson


message 21: by Mark (new)

Mark Johansen | 24 comments ML:

Well, my intent isn't to get into an argument about it. I expressed my opinion, obviously you disagree. I'm not campaigning for laws to make it illegal to include such words in a book, I just think it far more likely to hurt sales than to help. [shrug]


message 22: by Rowena (new)

Rowena (rowenacherry) | 35 comments Presumably, your editor loves the heroine and the story, or she would not have purchased it, and your editor will decide whether or not your heroine can use the strongest expletives.

You write, "Truthfully, to portray her character correctly the cursing must stay, it is a part of who she is, at least in the beginning. (:"

As a practical matter, how a person speaks determines how they are treated. If your heroine speaks like a crazed slut, she will be treated as such. She will not be tolerated in Regency polite society, no matter how goodhearted or gorgeous.

That might affect the adventures that she is likely to have, and the people she is likely to meet. You might just as well whisk her back in time to a goldrush mining town.

The most important consideration, IMHO, is plausibility. Your reader must happily suspend disbelief.

How many improbable elements are there in this heroine's story? (Rhetorical) Are they all absolutely essential?

If you are straddling three or four different genres, which will deliver your core readership? Decide that, and you might have a better feel for whether or not it's a commercial decision to put offensive language into your heroine's mouth.

For Regency Romance readers, it's doubtful. For Time Travel/SFR lovers, it's possible... etc.

Is "Starlit" a subset of "Chicklit"? Fascinating.


message 23: by M.L. (last edited Jan 13, 2011 04:21AM) (new)

M.L. Bushman | 144 comments Toni wrote: Simply put, if an author is using obscenities in their books then they are more than likely expressing obscenities in their everyday life.

That's a lot of high-minded bunk.

I work with the public all day and raise a kid the rest of the time--how many obscenities a day do you think I use? But I write them, if and when my characters speak them--why? Because that's who my characters are.

My characters aren't me. They don't reflect me unless we happen to agree on something. I am no more like the serial killer antagonist in my stories than I am the young heroine falling in love. But both are my characters. I may hate one and adore the other, but my only obligation to them is to be true to them, especially when I don't like what they're doing, or what they're doing isn't necessarily what I'd do. But, and here's the big difference between writers--I've given myself permission to write freely, without being chained to my own moral definition of what's good or not, or what's truly obscene.

I think it totally obscene to put limits on my writing. But it would be beyond obscene to let the opinion of others do it for me. Don't like what I write? Don't read it. But don't sit there and assume that what I write or how my characters speak or act are any reflection on me and how I live my private life. I'm a writer. I write fiction. I paint pictures with words and tell tall tales. After that, all you really know about me is what I'm willing to tell you in a short bio under the heading "About the Author."

Mari


message 24: by L.A. (new)

L.A. Hilden (lahilden) | 44 comments I agree with Mari. I am not my characters and they are not me. They are a figment of my imagination. If Nicolas Cage is paid to swear due to his lines in a film, does that mean he lives a life where he goes around swearing all the time? (Well, he might, it is Nicolas Cage, but I think you see my point). Desirea doesn't speak like a crazed slut because if she did, no one would ever be sympathetic to her character. Desirea is a spoiled twenty year old in this novel (Like Brittany Spears, who I'm sure has had the f-bomb fly out of her mouth on occasion). Desirea is like many young people who do often swear, but then curb such talk around elders, parents, teachers, etc.. Desirea is not constantly cursing, she undergoes changes and grows up quickly in the new world she finds herself. Love all the comments. Great conversation.


message 25: by Mark (new)

Mark Johansen | 24 comments My characters aren't me. They don't reflect me unless we happen to agree on something.

Not necessarily, I suppose. But I think in general the hero or heroine of a book reflects the interests and ideals of the writer. If I read a novel where the hero is a dog lover and much of the story centers around his love for dogs, I think it very likely that the author is a dog lover. Not necessarily, of course. It may be that the writer just had a plot idea where something about dogs fit in nicely. But probably. Likewise if I read a book in which the hero is a resolute anti-war advocate (just to take an example), and in which the villains are all war mongers, and in the end the hero triumphs and his opponents are all exposed as evil and corrupt ... I'd be quite surprised to then learn that in fact the author opposes pacifism. It could be. I'm sure it happens. But not often.


message 26: by Joy (new)

Joy Rancatore (joyerancatore) | 9 comments M.L. wrote: "Mark,

Perhaps I should rephrase the question: have you ever hung out with any gang members on their own turf and not yours? Have you ever hung out with a group of them when they're with their homi..."


I can't resist interjecting that if every author wrote by using only the language he or she would use in daily life, participate in only the type of activities he or she would do in daily life and associate with only the types of people he or she would spend time with in daily life, we'd have some pretty damn boring books!

I know I'm just starting out in this "world," but I'm pretty sure that's not what writing is about.

Of course, everything we write comes from somewhere--inspiration is in every relationship, acquaintance or casual observance. And, we absolutely glean much from our own lives, thoughts, dreams, etc. I believe there's a bit of the author in everything he or she writes. However, to limit oneself in language and activity when it comes to one's writing is literary suicide.

Believe me, I'm not a proponent of using the "f-bomb." I was raised in a very conservative household. However, life is life--everyone has different morals and values; and part of a writer's job is to relay the variety we see around us every day.

Now, that being said, each writer must decide what's right for him or her. If you just cannot in good conscience use foul language or even poor grammar, then that's what's right for you. However, in addressing writing in general, I think a writer must be free to be true to each character inspiration lands in his or her manuscript.

Mari, I think you've made some great points; I always enjoy reading your responses to topics such as these!


message 27: by M.L. (new)

M.L. Bushman | 144 comments Mark, it's my turn to laugh now.

One time while driving down to the road to my home, I had a five second experience with vertigo. That's all it was--five seconds of absolute vertigo. I eventually wrote a whole novel based on the premise of a bump into an alternate world. The idea wouldn't leave me, just rolled around in my head for a couple of months, and when I sat down to write the novel, the words poured like water. Funny, though, I never was interested in alternate worlds or vertigo. I've never actually been "bumped" into an alternate world before or since, so how in this world could that world come to me if I as a writer limited myself to characters and stories that reflect only my general interests?

Now, if I, being a female writer, happen to write books where men make up the majority of my main characters and heroes, does that make me interested in men? Or am I gay?

Do you see the problem you have here in assuming facts not in evidence about individual writers based solely on their writing?

All writers should be free to write whatever they damn well please, including where the story and its characters might take them, regardless of how they actually live or believe in their private lives. Leave the stereotyping to the less informed. God knows there's enough of that going around these days.

Mari


message 28: by M.L. (new)

M.L. Bushman | 144 comments Joy, thanks for the support and the kind words! I really appreciate both!

Mari


message 29: by Mark (new)

Mark Johansen | 24 comments ML: I didn't say that I expect a writer to only write about things that he or she has personally experienced. I said that in general I expect a book to reflect the writer's ideals.

It does not surprise me in the least if a book set on the planet Trantor is written by someone who, in fact, has never been to the planet Trantor. What would surprise me is if in this book, the hero is a libertarian, if throughout the book libertarian ideals are repeatedly presented positively, and the book ends with all the anti-libertarians on Trantor being totally discredited ... and then I learn that the author totally opposes libertarianism.

I'm not saying it never happens. But I think it's pretty rare.


message 30: by Mark (new)

Mark Johansen | 24 comments I think it totally obscene to put limits on my writing. But it would be beyond obscene to let the opinion of others do it for me. Don't like what I write? Don't read it.

Umm, this thread began when LA asked for the opinions of others on what she should write. So now you're attacking me for giving my opinion when someone asked for it?

If you are not interested in the opinion of others, that's fine. Don't ask. If you don't agree with my opinion, no one's forcing you to follow it. But please, don't begrudge others asking for an opinion or providing one when asked.


message 31: by M.L. (new)

M.L. Bushman | 144 comments Mark and Abby,

LA asked for opinions. We all gave ours. Then the conversation "degenerated" into a discussion.

What a horrible thing--discussion.

Another horrible thing, in my lowly unlearned opinion, is to discover there are still wannabe writers in the world who persist in supporting stereotypes of writers that are no longer valid, if they ever were valid.

I'm sorry you feel personally wronged somehow. No, really. I am terribly sorry you took this all personal.

Next time, I'll know better than to challenge either one of you or your opinions. End of discussion.

Mari


message 32: by L.A. (new)

L.A. Hilden (lahilden) | 44 comments When I posed this question I knew I'd get lots of differing opinions, this is why I asked it. There is not a right answer to this question, it's a matter of personal preferences. What offends one person may not offend another. I read all the comments and considered everything people contributed to this discussion. Desirea's Quest hasn't went to the editor yet, since I'm editing the first book in this series right now, but before I do I final edit on Desirea's Quest, I plan to go through the novel again and make sure Desirea's word fit her character. Thank you for your comments.


message 33: by Mark (new)

Mark Johansen | 24 comments ML: I don't begrudge you challenging my opinions, if by "challenge" you mean "disagree with". A good argument discussion can be enlightening, if not entertaining. I do find it amusing that you challenge my right to express an opinion. As someone said earlier, I think it totally obscene to put limits on my forum posts. But it would be beyond obscene to let the opinion of others do it for me. Don't like what I post? Don't read it. Or something like that.

It was not my intent in any of these posts to insult anyone. I'm debating the issue, not the personalities.


message 34: by KumeKei (new)

KumeKei Having opinions and expressing them is what makes us human.
Imagine living in a distopia where everyone agrees with everyone. Where's the fun in that?
And from discussions (arguments, or whatever you want to call them), as long as it stays on a positive note, we can sometimes extract the best ideas.
Imagine a hurricane destroying everithing in it's path but at the same time spreading seeds and clearing the land for a "new begining".
For the most part I agree with Mari on writing what you want and not be limited by stereotipes. My char can torture and kill you but I certainly wouldn't (or would I? muahahaha. kidding).
On the other hand I'm open to listen to the opinions of others (even when I don't agree with them). Who knows, maybe I'll learn something new.


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