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Stormed Fortress (Wars of Light and Shadow, #8)
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Wars of Light and Shadow > Stormed Fortress: More discussions about magic **SPOILERS**

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Sandra  (sleo) | 1059 comments What do we know so far? Anyone up to a summary?


Sandra  (sleo) | 1059 comments Oh pooh! I just tried to copy and paste a post I made to the author free thread yesterday and I lost it! I'll try to summarize it here.

A quote from p. 36 where Arithon is talking to Sulfin Evend about the history of magic/Biedar:

The seals that stay death were once part of a sacred rite,` used to commune with the ancestry. The Biedar don't write. Their tradition is inherited. They waken their talent through a trial of privation that opens initiate memory. Long before mankind settled Athera, Koriathain used arcane channels and disclosed the content. They catalogued everything. By rights, they claimed, since the dedicate purpose laid out by their founders held a mission of preserving all records of human achievement. The library they guarded was not discriminate, nor was it kept with integrity. Somebody tinkered, mixed forms, and experimented. Dark sources were tapped without wisdom. Sigils with binding aspects were forged. Worse forms evolved later, recombined with blood ceremony, which warped offshoot was leaked from the order. As I understand, the breach happened before today's stringent oath, which shackles each sister to unswerving loyalty.

So, okay, this seems to say that the Koriani invented necromancy from once sacred Biedar rites. Does this imply that they sanction it? Does anyone recall Selidie/Morriel having any thoughts about this dark magic? I'm not remembering any off the top of my head. Or did they come up with the binding oath as a result of these reprehensible actions?


Sandra  (sleo) | 1059 comments And then, of course, we have Paravian magic - the scene where Arithon awakens the Paravian guards with his lyranthe playing of the horror and destruction that awakens the guardian...Wholeness resulted. From horror and destruction came the exquisite freedom of unbridled peace, the harmonic dance as death was rebraided into the dazzling glory of rebirth. Grace resounded. The dark and the light were not separate, but one, reforged in dynamic balance.

We haven't said much about Paravian magic in any of the other threads. Perhaps that is because it is so numinous and overwhelming, almost God-like, that words fail us. And I can't help but think that this is the power Arithon was calling on when he cried GRACE and raised the power to transform the horrors of necromancy. And he first met that power in the maze when he met the centaur and was given forgiveness and grace himself.


Sandra  (sleo) | 1059 comments Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "Oh pooh! I just tried to copy and paste a post I made to the author free thread yesterday and I lost it! I'll try to summarize it here.

A quote from p. 36 where Arithon is talking to Sulfin Even..."


Gah! I just read Michelle's post in the other discussion in another club about Grand Conspiracy! It totally hadn't occurred to me that what Morriel did with Selidie was necromancy! Duh, duh, and DOUBLE Duh!


Stacia (stacias) | 5 comments Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "And then, of course, we have Paravian magic - the scene where Arithon awakens the Paravian guards with his lyranthe playing of the horror and destruction that awakens the guardian...Wholeness resul..."

I'm only halfway through Stormed Fortress, but the magic in this book that strikes me is the Paravian magic. It's a magic that heals & protects (in Shand & in Alestron - not addressing anything specifically in order to avoid spoilers). Balance is really important with this magic & this world. Balance is one of the biggest differences, in my opinion, between Arithon & Lysaer. With his initiate training, Arithon has been able to maintain some semblance of balance but Lysaer's life & thinking are completely skewed.


Sandra  (sleo) | 1059 comments Stacia wrote: "Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "And then, of course, we have Paravian magic - the scene where Arithon awakens the Paravian guards with his lyranthe playing of the horror and destruction that awakens the gu..."

Yes, exactly - balance - the statement that "The dark and the light were not separate, but one, reforged in dynamic balance" says it all, doesn't it?


message 7: by Sandra (last edited Dec 29, 2010 06:13PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sandra  (sleo) | 1059 comments And then there's Athera herself. A quote from p. 164 in the ebook, chapter Blood Debt :

At full moon, when the lane tides peaked, sleepers rode the driving swirl of raised flux, sunk in the meteoric splendor of dreams. Athera's web of active consciousness beguiled them, entwined with the seasonal currents, until even waking thought sailed through the life-quickened stream, where vivid colours and sound ran outside of the familiar senses.

What a magical place! Doesn't it make you long to be there?


Sandra  (sleo) | 1059 comments And the scene in the King's Glade with the Sun Child! OMG, just tore my heart out. Absolutely beautiful.


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Janny (jannywurts) | 414 comments Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "And then, of course, we have Paravian magic - the scene where Arithon awakens the Paravian guards with his lyranthe playing of the horror and destruction that awakens the guardian...Wholeness resul..."

If you examine this scene in conjunction with another - Ch V in Traitor's Knot, when Asandir goes out of body to counteract the invasive threat of the wraiths from Marak.

Quite a lot of the groundwork for Arc IV is laid down in Stormed Fortress; but the web of connection extends backward in the story line.

This point you've raised is a significant one, and recurs, and will become keystone a bit later.

It beckons for deeper examination...


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Janny (jannywurts) | 414 comments Stacia wrote: "Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "And then, of course, we have Paravian magic - the scene where Arithon awakens the Paravian guards with his lyranthe playing of the horror and destruction that awakens the gu..."

This point, connected with another quotation Sandra pulled up, about the planet herself...more to be mined from this aspect, too.


Sandra  (sleo) | 1059 comments Janny wrote: "Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "And then, of course, we have Paravian magic - the scene where Arithon awakens the Paravian guards with his lyranthe playing of the horror and destruction that awakens the gu..."

Well, the concept of wholeness being a result of the combination of dark and light, or good and evil, is a very Jungian thing, and is of course a deep one. Jungian theory says that everything contains its opposite - thus, love and hate are on a continuum and part of a whole, etc. I like this aspect of the series' philosophy very much. It resonates with my own philosophy and 'fits' with my psychological theories.


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Janny (jannywurts) | 414 comments Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "Janny wrote: "Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "And then, of course, we have Paravian magic - the scene where Arithon awakens the Paravian guards with his lyranthe playing of the horror and destruction that ..."

The concept I was looking for was the idea that limitations FORCE entropy. That denying any one piece of existence, or excluding a portion ultimately creates atrophy and imbalance.

A black and white view of morality, likewise, freezes change and stops movement in place.

How might this concept 'draw the line' between certain factions' forms of magic - the open-ended version, and the controlled one founded upon limitations?


Sandra  (sleo) | 1059 comments Oh well, yes, exactly. Certainly in individual psychology, most people run into trouble when they are 'stuck' in some rigid position or cycle and are unable to break out of it. Which is exactly why balance is so essential. If you think about something as simple as a ball on a balance board - the slightest tip in one direction or the other sends the ball into a ditch, where it rolls disconsolate and unable to move again without help.

And this, of course, is the defining difference between the magic of the Sorcerers, the Paravians vs the Koriathain. Which conclusion engages hope that in the end the limitations of the Koriathain will bring its own doom. Please Ath.


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Janny (jannywurts) | 414 comments Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "Oh well, yes, exactly. Certainly in individual psychology, most people run into trouble when they are 'stuck' in some rigid position or cycle and are unable to break out of it. Which is exactly w..."

Do you perceive a difference between the administrative ranks and the lower ranked, charitable initiates?


Sandra  (sleo) | 1059 comments I just finished this last night and got so caught up in all the drama at the end that I couldn't stop to post.

So much more in the way of magic

Davien and his dragon - Seshkrozchiel! What a name! But I was totally blown away by the beauty of the way what is basically indescribable is described - dragon thought processes. Dragon seeing things as 'not dragon'. And the episodes in the grimward, the dead dragon's agony, the work with Asandir and the poignancy of the reunion with the now corporate Davien.

The Biedar tribe and its' work with Sethvir and the F7! I just know they will become very important in finally bringing about a comeuppance for Morriel/Selidie and the Koriathain. And how much was stolen from them for the Koriathain to even exist! The bargain between Sethvir and Mother Dark for the baby.

And Dakar made a huge mistake in the 'Awakening Ceremony' when he only made it to bar the Koriani for the Babe and not for Arithon! Gah!


Sandra  (sleo) | 1059 comments Janny wrote: "Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "Oh well, yes, exactly. Certainly in individual psychology, most people run into trouble when they are 'stuck' in some rigid position or cycle and are unable to break out of..."

Well, yes, but the lower ranks don't seem to count for much in the scheme of things - politically, that is.


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Janny (jannywurts) | 414 comments Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "I just finished this last night and got so caught up in all the drama at the end that I couldn't stop to post.

So much more in the way of magic

Davien and his dragon - Seshkrozchiel! What a name..."


So many times dragons in fantasy are either monsters; or very wise/very anthropomorphic creatures that work in concert with people. I wanted something very different...very alien and quite a bit frightening in their power.

The painted image of a Paravian Dragon IN the energy would be something fun to behold...(one day, I hope).


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Janny (jannywurts) | 414 comments Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "Janny wrote: "Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "Oh well, yes, exactly. Certainly in individual psychology, most people run into trouble when they are 'stuck' in some rigid position or cycle and are unable t..."

The lower ranks are almost a separate entity - with separate powers and totally different goals.


Sandra  (sleo) | 1059 comments I would certainly be interested in others' understanding of the dragon magic, and the whole business between Davien and Seshkrozchiel and then Asandir. How did Davien become permanently corporate again? Why did Seshkrozchiel help with the grimwards?

This dragon (or these dragons) are very intriguing to me. They're clearly not like Puff! This one appears very interested in peaceful deaths for her kind - the dragon eggs that so outraged her - the unnamed dragon in the grimward where Asandir struggled. Is that why she agreed to help? Or perhaps the grimwards uncontrolled mean the death of the planet and the Paravians, which the dragons don't want.

Thoughts anyone?


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John | 138 comments Sandra, I don't know that I can answer those questions, but I haven't let something so small as ignorance stop me before. :)

How did Davien become permanently corporate again? I don't know about the how of it, but it seems to have had something to do with re-living the scene where he fought with the other Fellowship sorcerers and ended up discorporate in the first place. Two things stood out to me in this regard: "Watching, the golden eye of Seshkrozchiel encountered his human regret." That, to me, seems like a key piece, that somehow he had to acknowledge his own responsibility. And then we see this to end that chapter: "Davien's present, discorporate consciousness launched itself across a threshold of shifted event. Devoured by a coruscation of rainbows, he passed through the King's Chamber at Althain Tower." And then, I think, the next we see him, he has a real body and, like Pinocchio, is a real boy again.

Sandra, that seemed like a good observation about this dragon's interest in peaceful deaths for her kind. There also seems, clearly, to be something compelling about humans for dragons. If I'm remembering things correctly, the drake's recognized in themselves something flawed, something dangerous, and they summoned and bound the F7 to counteract the danger they--but most especially their spawn--posed to the Paravians. In this scene we see that Seshkrozchiel has a fascination with the very human qualities that are very much "not dragon": beauty, loyalty, adamance, and finally love (introduced gradually throughout the scene).

I'm pretty sure I'm missing a few (or many!) things here. Let's see... Davien made a deal with Seshkrozchiel, which got him a body (at least of sorts), but then Davien owed her, and she called in that debt when it came time to first destroy Avenor and then stabilize the grimward(s). Right? Hmmm... what was Davien needed for, exactly?


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Sandra  (sleo) | 1059 comments John wrote: "Sandra, I don't know that I can answer those questions, but I haven't let something so small as ignorance stop me before. :)

How did Davien become permanently corporate again? I don't know about t..."


Good guesses. The whole dragon thing makes my brain hurt, but I think Davien is needed as all of the sorcerers, to tame what the dragons themselves created in their inability to control their own creation. Clearly, when Davien left the others, he made some kind of bargain with Seshkrozchiel, and it allowed him some of the super magic with which he created the maze, the beautiful rock caves, etc., and also allowed him to become corporate intermittently. Fascinating stuff. Did you see we have a release date for Initiate's Trial???? I'm SO EXCITED! Oct 27 this year!!!


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John | 138 comments Mum's the word. I'll be sure not to blab about it on, say, an internet forum. :D

And I'll buy that explanation: just as the dragons couldn't manage to secure Paravian survival themselves and needed the F7 to be bound into service, something similar seems to be applying here. Dragons are unimaginably powerful, yet they seem also to lack some pretty important things, no?


Sandra  (sleo) | 1059 comments John wrote: "Mum's the word. I'll be sure not to blab about it on, say, an internet forum. :D

And I'll buy that explanation: just as the dragons couldn't manage to secure Paravian survival themselves and neede..."


Well, yeah, like all those things 'not dragon' that Seshkrozchiel was observing.


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