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general > Mosque being built near Ground Zero.

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message 1: by ShadowTalon (new)

ShadowTalon (flameofnight) I just wanted to know what you all thought of it. Should it be completed or not?


Chiara  ♪*CheesecakeLover*♪ | 684 comments Sorry- what is this?


message 3: by ShadowTalon (new)

ShadowTalon (flameofnight) A mosque has been built near ground zero, the site of the 9/11 terrorist attack. And a lot of people are complaining about it.


message 4: by ShadowTalon (new)

ShadowTalon (flameofnight) And why do you think this?


message 5: by ShadowTalon (new)

ShadowTalon (flameofnight) Would you say the same if a church was being built on the site of the abortion bombings?


message 6: by Kristen (new)

Kristen | 349 comments The Lonely Hollow wrote: "I feel it's an insult to America.
Lots of lives were lost because of the terrorist attack, they shouldn't build a mosque on the site where they glorified (they loved it) their attack."


I agree.
It's a slap in the face to every person who lost their lives or lost a loved one in the attacks.

Do they have the right to put it up?
Yes.
Is it a good idea?
No.


Chiara  ♪*CheesecakeLover*♪ | 684 comments Black Cat wrote: "A mosque has been built near ground zero, the site of the 9/11 terrorist attack. And a lot of people are complaining about it."

I see.


message 8: by ShadowTalon (new)

ShadowTalon (flameofnight) Kristen, what about you? Would you make the same argument if a church was being built on the site where the abortion bombings took place?


message 9: by [deleted user] (new)

Anything that could be deemed offensive on such a scale should not be allowed whatever religion it was about.


message 10: by ShadowTalon (new)

ShadowTalon (flameofnight) But it wasn't the actual religion that attacked. It was interpretors of the religion. Now, if statues of the people who attacked the world trade center were being built instead, I could see your point. But don't shoot down an entire religion because of what several people did.


message 11: by [deleted user] (new)

No one is and we all realise ( well I do) that it is extremists in all religions who cause the trouble. It is still insensitive though. Why build a religious building at all there of any denomination?


message 12: by [deleted user] (new)

There are many places throughout the world where horrendous things have taken place with many lives lost and not just to do with religion. None of these places I have ever heard of has had anything built on it - especially not a place of worship. They are usually left as parks or places of quiet where people can go and sit with their own thoughts whatever religion or of no religion. That would be far more sense.


message 13: by ShadowTalon (new)

ShadowTalon (flameofnight) Realize as you're saying this that the mosque isn't actually on top of Ground Zero, it's more than a few blocks away. No one is arguing that a place of worship should be built on the actual site, just in the general area.


message 14: by Kristen (last edited Dec 21, 2010 04:08PM) (new)

Kristen | 349 comments Black Cat wrote: "Kristen, what about you? Would you make the same argument if a church was being built on the site where the abortion bombings took place?"

Um...that's not quite the same thing.
Yes, Christianity says abortion is wrong. But it does not condone vigilantism.
two wrongs do not make a right
But ok, supposing that were an actual issue. Then I would have to say, no, it's probably not a good idea if people are offended. Although I'm confused about who would be offended in this instance.

The fact is, Islamic extremists killed all those people.
Therefore most people are going to associate Islam with the terror attacks.
Yes, I know not all Muslims were responsible for the attacks, but if in fact it is a religion of peace, as you claim, shouldn't they be trying to promote peace?
Building their mosque is not about peace. It's about doing what they want, regardless of what everyone else says.
It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong. The fact is, many people are offended by it.
If they really want peace, maybe they should work a little harder for it.
If it's so offensive to so many, why don't they just change the site. No one's saying they can't have their mosque.


message 15: by ShadowTalon (new)

ShadowTalon (flameofnight) The fact is, Islamic extremists killed all those people.

The key words here are Islamic extremists. Islam itself did not kill those people, extremists did. Christianity itself did not kill those Jews, Hitler did.


Building their mosque is not about peace. It's about doing what they want, regardless of what everyone else says.

Isn't that what all religion does? Do whatever they want regardless of others?


If it's so offensive to so many, why don't they just change the site. No one's saying they can't have their mosque.

It's already more than three blocks away, how close is too close?


message 16: by [deleted user] (new)

Black Cat wrote: "Realize as you're saying this that the mosque isn't actually on top of Ground Zero, it's more than a few blocks away. No one is arguing that a place of worship should be built on the actual site, ..."

I had no idea. Do you know, you're the first one to say that? Everytime I've heard it talked about, they say it is on the actual spot. In that case, that puts a whole new slant on it in my eyes. Everyone is entitled to have a place to go to worship and as it is nowhere near the actual spot, then I see no problem.


message 17: by Kristen (last edited Dec 22, 2010 12:09PM) (new)

Kristen | 349 comments Black Cat wrote: "The fact is, Islamic extremists killed all those people.

The key words here are Islamic extremists. Islam itself did not kill those people, extremists did. Christianity itself did not kill those..."


This argument is becoming old, Hitler was not a Christian. Christianity had nothing to do with what he did.
And I'm not sure how that's relevant to this. Is someone trying to build some church on or very near those concentration camps?

"Isn't that what all religion does? Do whatever they want regardless of others?"

You apparently seem to think so, but no, I would have to disagree.
And the debate isn't about all religions, it's about this one who is linked with the terror attacks.
It really doesn't matter that the people who want to build it had nothing to do with those attacks. People see it that way. And if they really wanted peace, they would compromise.
The location of this mosque is not vital to their religion. So I'm not sure what the big problem is about moving it.

"It's already more than three blocks away, how close is too close?"
Apparently it's still close enough to cause people to take it as an insult. And is it just my imagination or isn't the issue "a mosque at ground zero"? That's the way I heard it on the news.


message 18: by ShadowTalon (new)

ShadowTalon (flameofnight) Which people specifically are the ones who are taking it as an insult? What location do they live in? Because the last time I checked, it isn't anyone who lives in Arkansas's business what happens in New York City. NYC already took a vote on it, and it was passed. Why does everyone else care?


message 19: by Kristen (new)

Kristen | 349 comments The terror attacks were against Americans in general, not only the people who were killed. So American's in general are going to feel insulted by this. But most especially the family members of the victims. And yes, it's possible that there are family members living in Arkansas.
They care because it's insulting. You can say it's not the religion that did it, but that is what people associate it with.
And, where is the peace in all of this? Yep, I can sure see how the religion is all about peace...


message 20: by Nike (last edited Apr 21, 2011 12:35PM) (new)

Nike Chillemi Black Cat wrote: "A mosque has been built near ground zero, the site of the 9/11 terrorist attack. And a lot of people are complaining about it."

New Yorkers didn't take a vote on it. It was voted upon by the City Council and was passed. Then some New Yorkers went to court to stop it. It hasn't been built yet. There's been a stay. Now the people behind the Mosque are asking for financial aid...through tax payers money.

And at the same time the Greek Orthodox Church on the World Trade Center site has NOT gotten a permit to rebuild.


message 21: by Little Sparrow (new)

Little Sparrow (Ella) (LittleSparrow) | 10 comments I agree that you all have a right to your opinions, and that this is a very sensitive subject for most people, but there are some thing we need to keep in mind.
1.) The terrorist attacks of 9/11 were perpetrated by Islamic extremists whose views and actions are not endorsed or celebrated by a large majority of the Islamic population here in America and in other countries.
2.)The mosque in reference is not actually being built as a mosque, but as an Islamic community center. And it is not directly on ground zero, but a few blocks away.
My best wishes to the victims of 9/11 and their families.


message 22: by Nike (new)

Nike Chillemi Little Sparrow wrote: "I agree that you all have a right to your opinions, and that this is a very sensitive subject for most people, but there are some thing we need to keep in mind.
1.) The terrorist attacks of 9/11 we..."


If the builders of the Mosque were truly sensitive to the families of those who perished on 911 they could've purchased land elsewhere in NYC. In this real estate crunch, for sure they could've found another spot. In fact several other locations were suggested by prominent New Yorkers.


message 23: by Little Sparrow (new)

Little Sparrow (Ella) (LittleSparrow) | 10 comments But as I said in my post, the building in question is not a mosque and not directly on Ground Zero, and though they could have purchased land elsewhere, the community center was probably best placed in the community.


message 24: by Nike (new)

Nike Chillemi The building contains a mosque and a school. It is funded by people who have very staunch, fundamentalist views of Islam. Some of the people who are funding the Islamic center have questionable pasts.

Whether it is a mosque or an Islamic Center would make no difference to the families of 9/11 victims. Bot of those would be objectionable.

There is no Islamic community there. There is no Islamic population there at Ground Zero.

If the families of victims are outraged and hurt by this...and they are...then I'm against it.

The people who want to build the center have a right to pursue their agenda. This is America after all. The people who oppose the center have a right to put up every road block they can. Just be cause you want to build something doesn't mean you will be unopposed.


message 25: by Little Sparrow (new)

Little Sparrow (Ella) (LittleSparrow) | 10 comments I disagree with the fact a mosque or community center would be objectionable. Simply because of the fact that these Muslims are not terrorists. And as for "questionable pasts", I'd like to see where you got that information.
Secondly, "There is no Islamic community there. There is no Islamic population there at Ground Zero."
Where are you getting that information?!
There are an estimated 600,000 muslims in New York City. No Muslim community? You've got to be kidding me.
"The people who want to build the center have a right to pursue their agenda." - What agenda is that, I wonder? A church, a place of worship, a place to come together as a community? A place where they might also mourn the lives lost in the twin towers? Do you think that they might have known someone who died in the towers?
I agree they have a right to oppose the building of this mosque. And that some people feel strongly about it. I just hope that we'll be able to uncloud our eyes and see the situation clearly, and from all perspectives.


message 26: by Little Sparrow (last edited Jun 22, 2011 01:01PM) (new)

Little Sparrow (Ella) (LittleSparrow) | 10 comments It is near Ground Zero.

How near? Just over two blocks. Two long blocks, in fact. The Washington Post noted that the location is "roughly half a dozen normal lower Manhattan blocks from the site of the North Tower, the nearer of the two destroyed in the attacks.”
But it is close enough to have symbolic import, a fact that was not lost on those trying to build there.

"We want to provide a counter momentum against extremism,” said Daisy Khan, wife of Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who would lead the mosque, in a Newsweek interview. "We want peace, and we want it where it matters most. This is where it matters most.”

While we're considering the term "Ground Zero Mosque,” we also wondered whether it was proper to call the project a mosque. A mosque is, in fact, planned there, but it's part of a plan for a much larger, $100 million cultural center that includes a swimming pool, gym and basketball court, a 500-seat auditorium, a restaurant and culinary school, a library and art studios. Organizers say the center would be open to all New Yorkers, regardless of faith, and would promote cultural diversity. But the center would be geared toward "engaging New York's many and diverse Muslim communities and promoting empowerment and compassion for all.”

"You can't see Ground Zero from our current building and on completion of our planned building some years from now, there won't be any views of the Ground Zero memorial from the building,” said Sharif El-Gamal, owner of the building and developer of the Park51 project, in an interview with an Islamic news site.


message 27: by Wingstar (new)

Wingstar You have to remember, even though the terrorists where Muslim, they weren't the ones who did it. You cant automatically assume that all Muslim people are bad, but then also, the terrorists might have gotten the idea from Muslim code or such. Its a pretty equaled argument.


message 28: by Nike (new)

Nike Chillemi Little Sparrow wrote: "I disagree with the fact a mosque or community center would be objectionable. Simply because of the fact that these Muslims are not terrorists. And as for "questionable pasts", I'd like to see wher..."

It is objectionable. That's a fact. Tons of New Yorkers object to it. We live here and we don't want it in that place. That is a special place to us. It's a place of great pain. Many people lost a loved one there. And the consensus of residents of New York is that the Moslem cultural center should be somewhere else in the city. Not there.

Where are you getting your information? I live in NYC. There is NO Muslim community at Ground Zero. None. There is NO Christian community or Jewish community either. It's downtown. It's the financial district. It's skyscrapers with accounting firms and investment firms, not residential.

Yes there are 600,000 Muslims in NYC, mostly in the boroughs of Brooklyn and Queens. And there are over 100 mosques in NYC most of them in Brooklyn and Queens. In fact a Moslem cultural center and school is being built about ten blocks from my house. Nobody is objecting. It's even a unique concept, it is totally cultural and not religous and will accept nonMuslim children to foster good relations between the nationalities. Nobody is objecting. Nobody is protesting. But we do object to a mosque or Moslem cultural center at Ground Zero.


message 29: by Nike (new)

Nike Chillemi Little Sparrow wrote: "It is near Ground Zero.

How near? Just over two blocks. Two long blocks, in fact. The Washington Post noted that the location is "roughly half a dozen normal lower Manhattan blocks from the site o..."


Exuse me, the Washington Post can make whatever observation it wants, but I'm basing my opinion on living here in NYC. When the Twin Towers went down, I who live in Brooklyn, had charred bits of paper landing in my front lawn from the disaster. I was watching burned bits of paper fall into my front yard that had been handled by people who were jumping out of buildings to theri death. I dont' want the mosque at Ground Zero. They can put it twenty blocks away and I'll be OK with it. But where they're trying to put it is in the Ground Zero locale.


message 30: by Call~Me~Rose (new)

Call~Me~Rose (oswaldslostinwasteland) I don't even want a Masque in our country, i know we may have freedom of religion, but we can't just except every religion into our country, It will be our nations down fall.


message 31: by Nike (last edited Jun 23, 2011 05:37AM) (new)

Nike Chillemi Wingstar~sama (Dark the Wolf) wrote: "You have to remember, even though the terrorists where Muslim, they weren't the ones who did it. You cant automatically assume that all Muslim people are bad, but then also, the terrorists might ha..."

I remember everything. I remember the charred paper falling into my yard. I remember my neighbor's niece and my friend's daughter who were vaporized. I remember the weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks, extending to months and months of funerals in NYC. If I went out to get Duncan Donuts, I'd pass a funeral parlor with police and firefighter in dress uniform outside having a smoke. I do remember. And I object.


message 32: by Little Sparrow (new)

Little Sparrow (Ella) (LittleSparrow) | 10 comments I understand this was an emotional, terrifying and horrible experience. I can't begin to feel the pain of any New Yorker who witnessed the attack. I know you want someone to blame, and some way to make the city seem safer and solemn and reverent in this aspect. But the fact is, you are blaming the wrong people. You are punishing the wrong people for this act. I would be outraged if a suspected TERRORIST was being allowed to have a building near Ground Zero. But these people do not have an agenda, they simply want a cultural center/mosque (it doesn't really matter). I think any religion should be allowed to have a center at the same location. If we really want to talk about disrespect towards the area surrounding Ground Zero, it should be towards people that can't respect other religions, nationalities, sexes, abilities, wealth, and color. We need to understand who and what caused these attacks and to what degree.


message 33: by Little Sparrow (new)

Little Sparrow (Ella) (LittleSparrow) | 10 comments It was not a religiously motivated attack.
It was a HATE motivated attack.
Love to the people of NY.


Chiara  ♪*CheesecakeLover*♪ | 684 comments Jesus Lova! wrote: "I don't even want a Masque in our country, i know we may have freedom of religion, but we can't just except every religion into our country, It will be our nations down fall."

not that i live in the US, but why would it be their downfall? Culture is good...


message 35: by Nike (new)

Nike Chillemi Chiara ♪*CheesecakeLover*♪ wrote: "Jesus Lova! wrote: "I don't even want a Masque in our country, i know we may have freedom of religion, but we can't just except every religion into our country, It will be our nations down fall."
..."


We have over 100 mosques in NYC alone. That's not counting the Islamic schools. The vast majority of New Yorkers don't want them closed. They are building more. To my knowledge there is only one mosque of all the ones that are being built that has opposition to it. That is the one two blocks from Ground Zero.


message 36: by Little Sparrow (new)

Little Sparrow (Ella) (LittleSparrow) | 10 comments Then why is this mosque being opposed? You still don't seem to realize what I'm trying to say. Which is okay, because I don't understand you.
Why is this mosque in particular being opposed?


message 37: by Nike (new)

Nike Chillemi Little Sparrow wrote: "Then why is this mosque being opposed? You still don't seem to realize what I'm trying to say. Which is okay, because I don't understand you.
Why is this mosque in particular being opposed?"


It's being opposed because it's two blocks from Ground Zero. Period. You don't understand. You don't live here.


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