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SERIES—List & Discussions > Wars of Light & Shadow--Grand Conspiracy - Ch IV, V, VI - SPOILERS!

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message 1: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments Watch for some of the 'details' in these chapters to flower into major plot points, later.

What do you make of Sethvir's actions in the warehouse?

Parrien's handling of Arithon's objections?

Lysaer's high priest? Might there be more afoot in Lysaer's court than meets the eye?


message 2: by Kerry (new)

Kerry (rocalisa) | 487 comments I just finished. I think there's a whole lot more going on in Lysaer's court than at first glance. I'm also bveginning to suspect that the time will come when Lysaer finds he's set moving a juggernaut that he can't control any more.


message 3: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments Kerry wrote: "I just finished. I think there's a whole lot more going on in Lysaer's court than at first glance. I'm also bveginning to suspect that the time will come when Lysaer finds he's set moving a juggern..."

There was due warning given by the Fellowhship...do you recall the scene?


message 4: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments Do you have a favorite line, from these chapters?

What did Arithon's altercations with Parrien say about his character?

Did you find the awareness - whether or not Arithon knew Cattrick was going to act against his interests?


message 5: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments Do you have a favorite line, from these chapters?

What did Arithon's altercations with Parrien say about his character?

Did you find the awareness - whether or not Arithon knew Cattrick was going to act against his interests?


message 6: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments It's good to keep in mind that these 5 books - Arc III - are really one long story. FP and GC build up to Peril's Gate and then the climax in Traitor's Knot and finally in Stormed Fortress the big bang.


message 7: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Janny wrote: "Kerry wrote: "I just finished. I think there's a whole lot more going on in Lysaer's court than at first glance. I'm also bveginning to suspect that the time will come when Lysaer finds he's set mo..."

Oh yes, indeedy!


message 8: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments Anybody have favorite lines from this section?


message 9: by Kerry (new)

Kerry (rocalisa) | 487 comments I'm sure I do, but I'll have to look them up. I'll see if I've got anything to add later today.


message 10: by Jeff (new)

Jeff Watson | 55 comments The old man secured the lamp in a niche and stooped to bear up his share of the burden. 'You don't fear shadows?'

'I should.' The healer gave back a gruff, barking laugh. 'Maybe I will, if I see any. You ask me, what we have is a crisis in trade that began with the bold-as-brass theft of crown ships by a scoundrel. I don't see any Spinner of Darkness storming the kingdom by sorcery, His clan allies are left as convenient scapegoats, dragged in to vindicate old hatreds'


I like this because it shows that not everyone is blindly captured by the charisma of Lysaer nor driven to a mindless fear of shadows.

'The herb you've chosen will cause harm in this case, and that stick is an unclean implement with which to recall a man's blameless, strayed spirit.'

Here be foreshadows.


message 11: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Jeff wrote: "The old man secured the lamp in a niche and stooped to bear up his share of the burden. 'You don't fear shadows?'

'I should.' The healer gave back a gruff, barking laugh. 'Maybe I will, if I see a..."


Good ones Jeff! I like.


message 12: by orannia (new)

orannia I will try and have a look for my favourite lines tonight. And at the risk of coming across an idiot...here are my thoughts on the previous three chapter sets.

Personally, I loved Sethvir in the warehouse scene. And I know we never learn the Avenor royal healer's name, but I liked him. As Jeff showed with that great quote, the healer isn't blindly captivated by Lysaer. And you'd think he'd have reason to hate sorcery...what with the charlatans paraded in to the warehouse and the fact he has such patients to begin with. But...he just does his best for his patients. What does infuriate me is that people like him end up caught in this madness and then won't be able to escape. So many are caught up in this web.

I find the dichotomy between Lysaer and Arithon fascinating. One fair, one dark, one at home in the finest clothing, the other prefering sailor's garb. One embracing his heritage and his chance to rule, the other would rather do anything but. One welding light and linking it with being 'divine' the other welding shadow and clearly stating it is a birth gift and nothing more. Interesting. Am sure there are more examples, but those are the ones I have picked up on.

Oh, and while I understand that Lysaer's birthgift of justice has been warped by the Mistwraith there is absolutely NO excuse for what he did to Ellaine. NONE! I was yelling at my book. His excuse for why was beyong pathetic. Fine, so he doesn't want to care for Ellaine enough so that she could be used by Arithon (like Talith was /sarcasm) but...he could still take care of her. His idea of preparation for their marriage night was getting her to drink drugged wine? OMG! That is callous and cruel. Sorry, but that whole scene hit a very sore point with me.

As for Lysaer tapping into Cerebeld's gift to talk to him from afar and using his maternal gift of farsight? YIKES!

As for the farce in Avenor - those accused of sorcery are dammed if they heal the Etarran men flattened by the trees (for sorcery) but dammed if they don't (for chicanery).

Am even more sure Morriel is up to something...she has entirely another plan in place for when Lirenda fails. Because IMHO Morriel has no faith in Lirenda any more.

Question - were there any plans afoot to have a pause in reading over the Christmas-New Year period?


message 13: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments orannia wrote: "I will try and have a look for my favourite lines tonight. And at the risk of coming across an idiot...here are my thoughts on the previous three chapter sets.

Personally, I loved Sethvir in the..."


Orannia -- with regard to your request for a pause: did you wish one? I will bring that up for discussion in the appropriate thread. If readers want a holiday break, I see no problem at all.


message 14: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Janny wrote: "Anybody have favorite lines from this section?"

I just love where Asandir brings the trees to consciousness and uses them to stop the soldiers from burning the forest. The whole thing is lovely, but this quote specially took me away when he sits beneath the beech tree:

"There he reclined, with his head cradled amid the branching divide where the trunk of the beech engaged its splayed grip on the earth. He, too, shut his eyes, but not to subside into sleep. Instead, he embraced the dream of the tree, stately, slow, a step in four attenuated beats that marched to the change in the seasons....He immersed his whole being into the slipstream of life that was the joined multitude, root, trunk and bough, that comprised the forest of south Tysan....he became at one with the gnarled old beech... he was knotted root, tasting the mineral-rich darkness of earth. He was leaves, speaking the summer's endless, whispered promise of tranquility. In the grasp of winter's gates, he was bare branch and twig, drumming the untamed tempo of the elements. He was pollen, sifted under spring sunlight, and the spanging snap of bitter frosts. The old beech's memory extended like fog past the dawn of Athera's Third Age....the forest's webbed consciousness extended its reach to encompass the far borders of the wood. Asandir rode that tranquil sea of soft whispers, loomed from the speech of blown leaves in the wind, and braided amid the gosamer filaments of root hairs...


message 15: by Jeff (new)

Jeff Watson | 55 comments I can remember sitting under an old black cherry tree when I was a kid. Enjoying the dappled shading caused by the whispering leaves. The feel of the gnarled bark against my back. The scent of the ground. The stickiness of the sap. The essence of Tree. This passage recalls those halcyon moments from my youth. I wonder now, knowing a bit more about things, if I were to sit beneath a tree if I might not sense something of what this Sorcerer does.


message 16: by orannia (new)

orannia Thank you Janny. I wasn't exactly sure where I should ask the question, but now I know :)

I'm all over the place ATM so will try and think of my favourite lines while reading the current chapters. I will say though, I did love the part when Ellaine's handmaid slapped Lysaer. Of course it's like water of a duck's back, but I do like that she was overawed by his exaltedness /sarcasm but instead treated him as she would anyone. Lysaer doesn't have anyone around him who will do that. He is the Exalted Prince, the Blessed Prince (I need a bucket), the divine....whohewhatsit! They all...fawn and jockey for position around him. No one is there to give it to him straight. Arithon has Dakar and Jiret... I really think Lysaer needs someone. Will that be Sulfin? ATM I don't think so. Sulfin needs to look at him as a person, with faults, not as a divine saviour. Will shut up now :)


message 17: by Michelle (new)

 Michelle (varmint3) | 34 comments Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "Janny wrote: "Anybody have favorite lines from this section?"

I just love where Asandir brings the trees to consciousness and uses them to stop the soldiers from burning the forest. The whole thi..."


I think this was one of my favorite passages also! I love many writings about the consciousness of trees for the ideas, but this is surely one of the most beautifully written, too!


message 18: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments orannia wrote: "Thank you Janny. I wasn't exactly sure where I should ask the question, but now I know :)

I'm all over the place ATM so will try and think of my favourite lines while reading the current chapter..."


You are dead to rights about Lysaer needing someone to tell it to him straight. Some older women usually will...what does this say about his relationship with women?

And - who else might come forward from the ranks of those closest?

The advice of his 'high priest' - how far might this extend?


message 19: by Janny (last edited Dec 15, 2010 08:25AM) (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments Sandra - thanks for pulling up that passage.

Interesting, now, with the research (ongoing) that indicates that plants and trees DO communicate - intensely and interactively - via chemical transmission. More going on at the root of things about the state of their world than we ever realized.


message 20: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Janny wrote: "Jeff and Michelle - thanks for pulling up that passage.

Interesting, now, with the research (ongoing) that indicates that plants and trees DO communicate - intensely and interactively - via chemic..."


Ahem! I pulled up that passage :D


message 21: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "Janny wrote: "Jeff and Michelle - thanks for pulling up that passage.

Interesting, now, with the research (ongoing) that indicates that plants and trees DO communicate - intensely and interactivel..."


Whoops - my apologies, so you did! I will edit the notation, immediately.


message 22: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Janny wrote: "Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "Janny wrote: "Jeff and Michelle - thanks for pulling up that passage.

Interesting, now, with the research (ongoing) that indicates that plants and trees DO communicate - in..."


No need. Apology accepted. *grin*


message 23: by Shel, Moderator (new)

Shel (shel99) | 2361 comments Mod
I haven't read the above posts yet because I still haven't completely finished the chapter set, but here's something I was thinking about this morning: the Koriani perceive themselves (or at least "market" themselves) as being concerned with taking care of people, yet they can be absolutely ruthless when it comes to individuals (I'm still amazed at how heartless Lirenda was in forcing Elaira to participate in what's probably going to ruin the life of a 6-year-old child). They seem to have the ability to rationalize their actions by saying that the ends justify the means.

The Fellowship, in contrast, though their overall goal is the preservation of Athera itself, does show a very human compassion - witness Sethvir's healing of the soldiers stricken down in Caithwood.

Just occurred to me as I was reading and I thought it was an interesting contrast. I'll be back to read all of the above posts when I finish chapter VI :) (hopefully later today)!


message 24: by Shel, Moderator (new)

Shel (shel99) | 2361 comments Mod
Finished these sections last night. I also loved when Lysaer got slapped - I'm absolutely APPALLED at how he treated Ellaine. I felt mild pity for her when she was first introduced as a character, knowing the type of marriage she was about to enter into, but I didn't think Lysaer would be THAT callous with her!

Let's see, what else. I'm surprised by the actions of the s'Brydion brothers. Have they actually taken Cattrick and his men prisoner? It doesn't seem to mesh with their clan honor. Very curious to see how this pans out.

More later - have to go!


message 25: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments Shel wrote: "Finished these sections last night. I also loved when Lysaer got slapped - I'm absolutely APPALLED at how he treated Ellaine. I felt mild pity for her when she was first introduced as a character..."

Shel - fabulous points, I have been amazed (so far) no one posted much on your three observations, here (the s'Brydion motivations with Cattrick, the ACTIONS vs the WORDS of Fellowship vs Koriathain/ and also Lysaer's treatment of Ellaine.

Hindsight into these scenes will reveal MUCH more of what is really going on - sharp insight, to be asking the questions you have.

What do you think is really going on, underneath of these 'actions' by the various characters involved?


message 26: by Kathi, Moderator & Book Lover (new)

Kathi | 3327 comments Mod
Just a quick note. I finished this set last night. I concur with the observations of others re: Lysaer and his new bride. Yes, we know she is just for bearing heirs, but she and her women may be surprising. Personally, I think she will not remain a quiet mouse.

So, Arithon *was* being affected by the Curse when he and Perrien fought on the ship. I think they eventually hatched a plot to lessen the loss of life and perhaps maintain the cover of s'Brydion loyalty a bit longer. Clan honor runs way too deep for them to cast it aside, IMO.

Cerebeld is one scary dude and very dangerous, I think. I don't see him as a check on Lysaer at all, in fact, just the opposite. He will push the religion and the intolerance to the limit, and is able to ignore the irony of using talent to suppress talent.

I was so afraid that Lysaer was going to kill Harradene when he & the Etarran soldiers declared they would/could no longer wage war, for forsaking their pledge. Thankfully I remembered as I read that the penalty was to be turned loose w/o resources. Will they play a role back in Etarra, which Lyasaer wants to make a seat of power? Irony there, too, since that is the seat of the Prince of Rathain.

OK, random thoughts over for now.


message 27: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments Kathi wrote: "Just a quick note. I finished this set last night. I concur with the observations of others re: Lysaer and his new bride. Yes, we know she is just for bearing heirs, but she and her women may be..."

Very good observations, Kathi - watch for them to develop.


message 28: by Kathi, Moderator & Book Lover (new)

Kathi | 3327 comments Mod
Hard to remember that in some ways, both Lysaer and Arithon are both but pawns... in the long term, to defeat the Mistwraith and other threats and somehow bring back the Paravians, and in the shorter term, it almost appears that Lysaer might be a pawn of the religion he spawned.

Also, Lysaer seems to grow sleeker and more majestic while Arithon continues to wear away and fade until he is, yes, but a shadow of his former (still slight) self.


message 29: by Sandra (last edited Apr 06, 2011 04:24PM) (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments It's endlessly fascinating to speculate, isn't it Kathi? And I agree, Cerebald is one scary dude!


message 30: by Alissa (new)

Alissa | 171 comments Currently reading ch VI. Lysaer and Arithon are both having ugly moments, that's for sure. I cannot sympathize with Lysaer, but the more I read, the more I think he is still- somehow, partly- a victim of circumstances OF HIS OWN SHAPING and the curse. The priest is scary. I admit I'm all for Sulfin and Vorrice though, I've always loved the fanatic-zealot type.
But the real candy is the s'Brydion role. I really want to know why they are openly showing a wavering resolve in the Alliance's cause by failing to show at the wedding, and why Lysaer is biding his time about the issue.
The whole thing about employing mage-gifted people to hunt down other mage-gifted people is scary and it reminds me of very similar predicaments in our history, which usually ended in bloodbath.
I admit I struggled a little thru the first three chapters, now I'm keeping up pace, the story is moving quite faster.
I'm trying very hard to see behind the surface of the events.


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