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World issues. > Abortion

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message 1: by Cody, Ninja (new)

Cody (rolinor) | 905 comments Mod
Is it wrong should it be legal.


message 2: by ♥ Rachel♥, Hey, whoa, I'm a mod! (new)

♥ Rachel♥   (i_got_a_jar_of_dirt) | 767 comments Mod
Wrong? In some cases. Should it be legal? With a mild limit, yes.


message 3: by Cody, Ninja (new)

Cody (rolinor) | 905 comments Mod
there are many cases that it is just fine but some well they should have to have the child.


message 4: by ♥ Rachel♥, Hey, whoa, I'm a mod! (new)

♥ Rachel♥   (i_got_a_jar_of_dirt) | 767 comments Mod
What are those 'some'?


message 5: by Cody, Ninja (new)

Cody (rolinor) | 905 comments Mod
Well people who can afford the child, will not be medically affected by it, etc, and prostitutes who are just trying to use abortions as a form of birth control.


message 6: by ♥ Rachel♥, Hey, whoa, I'm a mod! (new)

♥ Rachel♥   (i_got_a_jar_of_dirt) | 767 comments Mod
Thing is, those people will just give the child up for adoption, which currently is run by a rather poor system.


message 7: by Cody, Ninja (new)

Cody (rolinor) | 905 comments Mod
yeah that is a good point unfortunately....


message 8: by Nathan (new)

Nathan Well people who can afford the child, will not be medically affected by it, etc, and prostitutes who are just trying to use abortions as a form of birth control.

Yeah, because prostitutes don't use birth control. Prostitutes are just dumb, sleazy bitches who sleep with everyone without thinking ahead about pregnancy. I hope you sense the sarcasm.


message 9: by Cody, Ninja (new)

Cody (rolinor) | 905 comments Mod
Nate that's not quite what I meant, I mean that sometimes they do screw up and they should face the consequences.

But rape victims on the other hand should be allowed to have an abortion, same if the baby can effect the mothers life, or if they really can't afford the child.


message 10: by Nathan (new)

Nathan Problem. If only rape victims were allowed to have abortions, many women who were not actually raped would claim they were. And they may even accuse not rapists of being rapists just so they could get out of a jam.


message 11: by Cody, Ninja (new)

Cody (rolinor) | 905 comments Mod
oh that's not what I meant either... I'm trying to say that people shouldn't be allowed to get an abortion just because they don't want the child, they have to have a good reason.


message 12: by Nathan (new)

Nathan That is what you meant though. Reasons can be whatever anyone says they are. If you say one needs to be raped, they will claim to be raped. If you say one needs to be impoverished, they will claim to be impoverished. It simply makes more sense to make it legal to all. Women aren't going out to get abortions as a form of birth control. It is far too expensive and is a relatively painful and difficult procedure. It is a last resort for all, not a preferred method.


message 13: by Cody, Ninja (new)

Cody (rolinor) | 905 comments Mod
Yeah I guess I agree with that...


message 14: by Elizabeth (new)

Elizabeth (EvanescanceFan101) WHAT IS ABORTION?


message 15: by ♥ Rachel♥, Hey, whoa, I'm a mod! (new)

♥ Rachel♥   (i_got_a_jar_of_dirt) | 767 comments Mod
Abortion is a termination of pregnancy that causes the death of the fetus.


message 16: by Elizabeth (new)

Elizabeth (EvanescanceFan101) what is the fetus? and don't think i am dumb!!!


message 17: by Nathan (last edited Dec 09, 2010 12:13PM) (new)

Nathan Read one article on abortion and no one will need to continue to answer these ridiculous questions. You have the internet. Stop being lazy.


message 18: by Elizabeth (new)

Elizabeth (EvanescanceFan101) i am not lazy!!!


message 19: by Nathan (new)

Nathan Yes you are. Or you wouldn't ask such ridiculous questions that you could find the answers to on your own.


message 20: by Cody, Ninja (new)

Cody (rolinor) | 905 comments Mod
Elizabeth please if you don't know what something is research it first before spamming the main topics.

and to answer your question a fetus is a baby while it is still growing inside a mother. (an unborn child)


message 21: by Elizabeth (new)

Elizabeth (EvanescanceFan101) i am not spamming anything, nathan just called me lazy!!!


message 22: by Courtney (new)

Courtney | 4 comments question about adoption, if a baby is given up for adoption and no one "wants" them then does the child go into the foster care system


message 23: by Cody, Ninja (new)

Cody (rolinor) | 905 comments Mod
Elizabeth wrote: "i am not spamming anything, nathan just called me lazy!!!"

Don't take it as in insult... he has said a lot worse, any way you may not think your spamming in the normal sense, but by asking questions that are just as easily researched in a few seconds is close to it.


message 24: by ♥ Rachel♥, Hey, whoa, I'm a mod! (new)

♥ Rachel♥   (i_got_a_jar_of_dirt) | 767 comments Mod
Courtney wrote: "question about adoption, if a baby is given up for adoption and no one "wants" them then does the child go into the foster care system"

Yes.


message 25: by Anony-miss (new)

Anony-miss a-non-y-miss | 399 comments Mod
I like the idea of abortion being open to poor women and teenage girls that are scared out of their minds about being pregnant. There are a lot of cases in which it is necessary. A limit? Sure. I do not know of anyone that really abuses abortion. And I have NEVER heard of anyone that loves having one. The thought of having one myself makes my stomach crawl a little. It's usually a choice between a) sitting in a clinic, with my legs spread out, as a doctor pokes me with two prongs or b) a pill to induce a spontaneous miscarriage. Both sound very unpleasant, but like I said, sometimes it is necessary.

I think the people who are against abortion have the whole image wrong. They picture a filly mature child, or hear a child crying, etc. They pry and grasp onto unneeded sentiment. When I observe pictures of a protest against abortion, you see signs with children that are already born or fully matured .. with, of course, sentimental text to go with it.

Have your own thoughts on it, fine. But please don't invade my privacy. It makes me sad to hear that abortion doctors get killed because of their profession, or that people having abortions are terrorized at the clinic. And hey, abortion doctors are not in it for the money. And the largest reason why a woman might feel depression after having one is either because a) there is still a large stigma surrounding it and b) I believe it's a natural response/effect of the procedure.


message 26: by Cody, Ninja (new)

Cody (rolinor) | 905 comments Mod
Hey Tenebris in that Teen group we're part of there was just this really long thing posted by Miriam in the sex topic... I refuted most but not all of it can you go get what I missed, you're a little better at wording some stuff then me.

Oh and yeah I agree.... I'm so glad I'm a guy...


message 27: by Anony-miss (new)

Anony-miss a-non-y-miss | 399 comments Mod
Okies. And yeah, you should be. xP

Yeah, that's what my boyfriend told me once when HE ASKED in DETAIL about "how horrible could periods really be?" Tsk tsk ..


message 28: by Cody, Ninja (new)

Cody (rolinor) | 905 comments Mod
XD well we have to deal with so less compared to you girls lol. It's kinda nice :). :P


Beautiful Cheese (Celine) (zeelazybum) | 131 comments Murder is still murder no matter who does it or who is being killed. (talking about abortion doctors being killed here not abortions.)


message 30: by Anony-miss (new)

Anony-miss a-non-y-miss | 399 comments Mod
Hey Cody, do you mind popping into the "Abortion" debate in the teen group? I need a little help :-P


message 31: by Cody, Ninja (new)

Cody (rolinor) | 905 comments Mod
Yeah sorry I wasn't there, I was at the county fair camping there.


message 32: by Cody, Ninja (new)

Cody (rolinor) | 905 comments Mod
Yep :)


message 33: by ♥ Rachel♥, Hey, whoa, I'm a mod! (new)

♥ Rachel♥   (i_got_a_jar_of_dirt) | 767 comments Mod
Agreed, nor should she have to suffer the 9 months of pregnancy.


message 34: by ♥ Rachel♥, Hey, whoa, I'm a mod! (new)

♥ Rachel♥   (i_got_a_jar_of_dirt) | 767 comments Mod
For sure :/


message 35: by luhvBOOKS (new)

luhvBOOKS Cody wrote: "Is it wrong should it be legal."

It is completely wrong. A child is your responsibility. You shouldn;t kill it before its born. Its unmoral. Its wrong. MURDER.


message 36: by Anony-miss (new)

Anony-miss a-non-y-miss | 399 comments Mod
Sometimes you don't see it coming. Just because you had sex doesn't mean you are join to be pregnant. It's better to be protected, but accidents happen and people aren't always anticipating that sort of a thing.

Let's say, spontaneously, this new huge responsibility (aka the kid) is now placed on your shoulders. And you can't do anything about it ..

Seriously. Abortion isn't the worst thing in the world, but I also believe it isn't the greatest thing.

If you are going to argue that it is "against God's/Whoever's plans" for me to have a child .. what if I *am* destined to not bear a child?

And also -- if you don't like your rights to be taken away, then why take away other peoples' rights?


message 37: by Thalia (new)

Thalia (thaliaanderson) Whew. Okay.
I can get kind of...heated with this one.

Abortion is wrong under ALL circumstances. I don't care who you are, what you did, how you got pregnant; murdering a child is totally, completely unacceptable. And you know what? I do believe it is one of the worst things on this earth, and I can't...I can't even FATHOM how people can be okay with it. It just...stuns me that people are like, "Oh yeah, doesn't matter; can't see it and it doesn't look like you, so it can't be a child! Go ahead and do away with it!"

It doesn't make sense.

It's a freaking baby. It's a child. Just because it's not formed yet, or it doesn't breathe the same air as you do yet doesn't make it any less alive. And yeah, I get REALLY pissed off when I find out things like an idiot teenager had sex and then aborted the baby when they got pregnant. If you're not ready for a baby, don't have sex, because sex is for procreation; that seems pretty straight forward to me. People wanting pleasure with no consequences makes me angry beyond all belief.

It's freaking murder. There's no getting around it! That "thing" inside of you is a baby, and it's YOUR baby. How could anybody just kill it? And for those who don't want the baby or can't afford one? Give it up for adoption! The adoption agencies may not the best right now, but you are NO ONE to decide that death is the better path for that child than being in an adoption agency.

Ugh. It just disgusts me. Even if I was freaking raped and got pregant, I would never kill that child. I don't care if the baby lives with you or is put up for adoption, but life will always be better than death for that child. It just...it doesn't deserve to just be thrown away because their parent decided it wasn't worth going through with the pregnancy or something. It's just so...selfish.


message 38: by Brigid ✩ (new)

Brigid ✩ I don't care who you are, what you did, how you got pregnant

Sooo ... Say a 12-year-old girl gets raped and gets pregnant. You would force her to keep her child? Because in my opinion, that would be a cruel thing to do.

It just...stuns me that people are like, "Oh yeah, doesn't matter; can't see it and it doesn't look like you, so it can't be a child! Go ahead and do away with it!"

That's a rather offensive way to portray people who are pro-choice. I'm pro-choice, and I realize that fetuses are living human beings. And I think abortion is a very sad thing, and I wish that women would avoid it as much as they can. But ultimately, it's the woman's choice. There are some circumstances where the pregnancy can be harmful to the mother, or the baby has an extremely low chance of survival, and it's in those type of cases where I understand the decision.

I get REALLY pissed off when I find out things like an idiot teenager had sex and then aborted the baby when they got pregnant.

Another rather judgmental thing to say. Just because a teenage girl has sex does not make her an idiot. I mean, having unprotected sex is a rather poor decision. But there are also times when contraception doesn't work, and that's not the girl's fault.

sex is for procreation

Yes, according to biology. According to emotion, no.
Gay people have sex and that's not for procreation. It's for love. (Of course, having been in debates with you before, I know that you don't support gay relationships either.)

Even if I was freaking raped and got pregant, I would never kill that child.

I probably wouldn't either. But I'm assuming that you, like me, are in a decent financial situation and that your parents wouldn't kill you (literally) if you got pregnant. Some girls are not in that good of a situation.


message 39: by Anony-miss (new)

Anony-miss a-non-y-miss | 399 comments Mod
Abortion =/= Murder, otherwise it would still be illegal today. There is a point when it does think and feel pain, yes, not not from the start.

It's a blob of cells, really. Call it whatever you will .. it's still a growing blob of cells. Not even tissues, not even organs, not even advanced enough to really tell what it is.

Baby and child are subjective terms. Baby is much too broad -- you could use it to describe the embryo, the fetus, or even after birth. In this case, it is not fitting.

"An idiot teenager having sex." I suppose it's my turn to feel a little upset. Not every teenager isn't going to go around having sex willy nilly (while there are some) and not all teenagers are idiots. I'm a responsible teenager who will take BC or some other contraception (perhaps both condoms and birth control) when the time is right. Even when I'm an adult .. I cannot see myself having kids.

Again, baby is not fitting. And it's alive, sure. But a LOT of things are alive. The grass you are stepping on, the flowers you pick .. you don't see my raving about that. And even so, you don't rant and rave about other mammals. Just today, I saw some pictures of a bat fetus. The fetus of a bat .. looks VERY similar to a human fetus, minus the webbed hands. Seriously.

How can it be a death when it hasn't been alive yet? I will agree that abortion is not the greatest thing in the world, but you know what else pains me more? Child neglect, abuse, and just .. not giving them a chance. I'd rather have no child that a child I can't attend to. About the whole me-not-having-kids part? I suffer from a disorder that disconnects me from the people I'm even closest to (a dissociative disorder, with major depression and anxiety problems). Plus, I have a very fragile body, even as a woman. Well, I'm an older teenager, really, so I'm still maturing as far as my body, but a pregnancy could seriously damage me mentally and physically. Giving birth is more dangerous than having an abortion, as far as the woman.

Which reminds me .. why is it that a lot of "pro-lifers" are against or ignore the woman in the equation? We're the ones bearing the child. We're the ones who got pregnant, be it from consenting sex to rape or incest. Are you against abortion even in the case of rape or incest?! I was molested when I was 10 (not the same thing has rape, but) it definitely hindered me. I have zero. Zero. Tolerance. For that kind of thing.

Hey hey, adoption isn't the smartest thing. I suppose it would be like abandoning the child. The easy way out. Eh .. I'll just carry the kid to term .. and leave it for *complete strangers* or for the *poor government funding* to deal with. I really don't get that mentality.

Again, I dislike your use of the word kill in this discussion, too. It isn't killing. Not murdering. It was definitely be illegal if it were murder. It's termination of the pregnancy, halting the pregnancy from progressive, aborting the clump of cells. Would you rather have someone get an early abortion (normal abortion) or would you rather the parent abuse the child later on, or even do some horrible things to the child after birth?

It's not selfish at all. You know what reminds me of selfish? There are teenage girls my age who want to have babies because they want to doll them up and be on TV because they are sixteen and pregnant or because they want to stand out or to have a child to grow up to do all of the chores and work. Ugh. That is selfish.

Think about abortion as planning ahead. Abortion is pretty expensive for those who are poor or don't have a job, but it's pretty cheap compared to having a child all on your own later. '

Lastly, I'd like you to at least understand *why* someone would have an abortion:
- not ready for a child
- too poor for a child
- not physically ready for one (the mother or the child could die in the birthing process)
- miscarriage
- teenager
- still has education to finish (high school, college)
- abusive father or mother
- disease (the mother has a disease/is sick or that the child has been detected of having a serious problem that wouldn't allow them to live long after the birthing process)
- and many more reasons

^I believe all of those are valid reasons.


message 40: by John (new)

John Egbert (heirofbreath) | 492 comments Hm. Someone from a thread like this so wisely said "Nobody is pro-abortion". Who really wants to have someone go through with that? Nobody. But guess what, it isn't your body now is it? How is it in any way moral to force a person to give birth to another human entity if they aren't ready?

Which reminds me .. why is it that a lot of "pro-lifers" are against or ignore the woman in the equation?

This here is what bugs me the most. Everyone claims to be thinking about the child with pro-life, but guess what, if the mother isn't in her right mind or isn't ready to raise a child mentally the kid's life will ultimately suck in one way or the other. A few months ago I saw a man protesting outside off a Planned Parenthood center and thought..."Bitch, you haven't even gone through one painful menstrual cycle so how the fuck do you think you deserve to judge someone else for not wanting to give birth?" It's not that men can't have an opinion on these things just because they don't have ovaries, but it still makes me mad when people refuse to think of anyone but themselves in a situation where they're deciding things for a whole group of people, that's all.

Let's not even talk about in cases of rape or incest. Anyone who tries to force a woman who has been raped, especially by family, to give birth to a child of that union really needs to go through the same thing themselves first, that's all I have to say. It's really easy to sit up on your high chair and tell people they shouldn't do this and they shouldn't do that, and it's even easier to say that if this happened you would never do that -- it's a little harder to step on the ground and experience these things yourself, now isn't it? How incredibly selfish is it to demand something of a person who has gone through such hell? They literally had no choice in the matter, in fact that choice was viciously ripped away from them. It's bad enough to be raped, bad enough to be raped and impregnated, but to be expected to carry and give birth to the children who are the product of these rapes? I simply do not understand it.

And let's not even go into how terrible lives would be for those children, how their mothers or people around them would secretly despise them. Let's not talk about how, depending on the situation, the father or brother or neighborhood weirdo might target and indeed rape the child themselves. These things have happened and do happen still, no matter how much we all hate that fact.

I believe life begins at conception, but I do not believe forcing poor unaware children into households of poor unprepared mothers is in any way a warranted or remotely intelligent decision.

Even those idiot teenagers who have sex without protection for the lulz...would you really want anyone like that raising any sort of child? How long do you think the child would stay alive? And if alive, do you think the child could be raised mentally and physically unscathed? That's just how I see it...


message 41: by Anony-miss (new)

Anony-miss a-non-y-miss | 399 comments Mod
Pretty true. Like I said -- how would you feel if you sudden had a large responsibility dumped on you (maybe without any notice) and you couldn't do a thing about it?

70% of anti-abortion people in politics are men. And the others? Woman who are a wee bit too old or crazy to have kids.

Also, quite a bit of people who have abortions already have a child or two or more (meaning they aren't in the position for having to support another kid or that they are already finished with their family).

Also true about the rape/incest thing. Easy for them to say, oops, oh well. How would they like their rights to be taken from them, or at least to be shown little respect? The day I heard that they wanted to make abortion illegal, even for those who were raped .. I really wanted to cry when I heard that. Even rape, something so harsh and ugly and traumatizing?

Also true, with the last paragraph. Reminds me of something I saw:
If you don't trust someone who believes in abortion, why trust them with a child?

Well, it wasn't that exactly (the way I worded it sounds like people who believe in abortion cannot have a family -- my mother believes in abortion but she still planned on having kids, for example) but you get the point.


message 42: by John (new)

John Egbert (heirofbreath) | 492 comments 70% of anti-abortion people in politics are men. And the others? Woman who are a wee bit too old or crazy to have kids.

This part just kills me, it really does. 70% of people who want to decide on abortion for women around the US don't even have an idea of what it's like to have to go through with it! What the hell is up with that? You'd think sense would say it should be primarily women. To just be honest, it's a little crazy. I hate it word it like this, but it's like this: how the hell am I supposed to know anything about testicles? I can read all the books in the world, sure, but when it comes right down to it I really have no idea what I'm talking about because I just haven't felt that. Especially considering these political men -- political people in general -- are crotchety old jerks half of the time and perverts the other half, perhaps maybe two percent are actually normal, and so many of them are idiots it's not worth counting the percentile on that.

Making abortions illegal is literally one of the stupidest things you can do right now, or ever...the abortions wouldn't stop -- people would just turn to back alley doctors and get infected by diseases or just incredibly messed up because those doctors don't know what they're doing. The same with drugs. Just because it's not legal doesn't mean people won't do it. It just means they'll find other means of getting it, terrible dangerous means that could cost them their lives.

The way you worded it sounds spot on. If you're the kind of Christian who thinks those who have abortions are lost or stupid, would you want someone who you think is a lost or stupid person raising a child? Well damn, not looking out too much for the child's interests anymore are we...


message 43: by Brigid ✩ (new)

Brigid ✩ Making abortions illegal is literally one of the stupidest things you can do right now, or ever...the abortions wouldn't stop -- people would just turn to back alley doctors and get infected by diseases or just incredibly messed up because those doctors don't know what they're doing.

That's a good point, too. If a professional doctor doesn't do it, a woman might just try to do it herself, and end up really hurting herself or killing herself.


message 44: by Thalia (new)

Thalia (thaliaanderson) Responding to Brigid's first post first.

I didn't say the 12-year-old should be forced to keep the baby. I said she should have it, and then do as she pleases; give it up for adoption or keep it (have their parents raise it as their own or something?). Just...anything is better than death.

I also didn't say everyone who is pro-choice believes that way. But I have met a lot of people who DO believe the way I stated, and that's what makes me angry. I never said everybody was like that; the majority very well might not be.

I, too, understand if there's was ZERO chance for the baby to survive, and having the still-born or something would jeopordize the mother's life. I understand aborting the child then. But if it's already dead and/or cannot be born alive, I don't think you're actually killing the baby.

"Idiot teenagers", I believe, are the girls like at my school, who sleep around for fun and screw the consequences. Again, I'm not referring to everybody, but then again still referring to a lot. And as for my own moral views on sex outside of marriage, I do think having sex at all when you're a teenager and totally unprepared for commitment is a poor decision in and of itself, regardless of protection.

And yes, I won't get into my views on homosexuality. Staying out of that topic this time. Usually everybody ends up hating me, so I'm just backing away from that one. Because I am religious, I do believe God meant sex for procreation, and not for abusing it for pleasure alone. So...I'll stand by my statement of procreation.

If you were raped, there are a lot of people who could help you, regardless of situation. Schools, police, etc. I mean, especially schools. I mean, because of my beliefs on sex outside of marriage, my getting pregnant isn't something I've really gone over with my parents. I'm not having sex before I'm ready to have a child, so it's not something I worry about. But, like I've said in other groups, I had a friend who was pregnant, who's mom would really have kicked her own (and nearly did when she found it), and was in no financial support whatsoever. Her boyfriend knocked her up in the eighth grade after he gave her a funny drink, and she couldn't tell anybody except for me. I think that if it worked out for her (she had the baby and gave it up for adoption-->also which I believe is possible without a parent's knowledge, just like abortions, so telling your parents wouldn't even be an issue), it can work out for almost anybody.

* * * * *

Tenebris: I do not think it's the woman's choice what happens to the "baby's" life. Just because it's not "alive" like you are doesn't mean it's not alive at all. Grass also isn't alive like us, but it still is. And if you can't handle raising the kid, give them up for adoption! I plan to adopt as well as have kids of my own someday, and there are lots of couple who can't have kidw who want them and will adopt children. Giving them up for adoption is not a curse; but having someone choose whether you ever get to take that first breath? It just seems so terrible and heartless.

As for if you were about to die if you gave birth, I cannot say my stance. I don't feel like abotion should be okay, and while I would give my life for a chance my baby might live, I understand it's not fair to force everybody into that. That's something I'm torn on and cannot really say where I stand on it right now.

As for rape/incest-->my religion stands on that abortion is alright in such cases, but I...I wouldn't do it. Have the baby and give it up. It's hard to deal with pregnancy like that, but...I just know that I would feel terrible to be raped and then actually kill an innocent little child. I think both cases are immoral. And also, like I said, I don't "ignore" the woman. Yeah, it's your body, but it's not your life you're just giving up. Nobody has the right to play God and decide if that baby is worth having. It's been brought into the world, so it deserves a chance to live.

As for "abandoning". Refer to my comment about playing God. I believe that even growing up poor without much is better than someone deciding that it's not even worth it for you to live at all. I believe people make their own lives; so you are you to choose whether that child is going to have a crappy life anyway? You should at least commit to the baby for those nine months. If you look at a baby as being able to tell what's going on, imagine this: Being abanoned in an adoption agency with strangers and the chance to have a good home or to make your own life? Having your mother decide you aren't worth dealing with and not even giving you a chance for your own life?

I'd take option one any day of the week.

I get why people have abotions. I just don't agree with most of them, like "not ready" (in the case of choice sex-->why'd you have sex?), etc. Probably because I'm religious, and very VERY conservative I'll see all these things differently. I don't expect to change anybody's minds. But I don't expect anybody to trash me, either. It's incredibly offensive to say such things as "It's really easy to sit up on your high chair and tell people they shouldn't do this and they shouldn't do that, and it's even easier to say that if this happened you would never do that". WOW. Come on. Be a little less offensive, could you? Debating isn't about TRASHING the opposing side. It's about giving facts for your opinion. I don't in ANY WAY believe I am "better" than anybody else for my views, and I think it's extremely rude to say such a thing.

I'd just like to point out that I'm sixteen. I am not evil or all "holier than thou" because I stick up for the rights of the unborn. I will forever stick by that belief and I don't think I'll ever be able to fully understand the opposing side; it doesn't make sense to me. But this is an issue that I would give my life for, and if you guys are going to make sure offensive statements like I think I'm SO much better than you, and I have noooo clue as to anything, and my opinion is null-in-void because I someone think it's wrong to kill a baby to didn't even get a chance? If you're going to do THAT, then there's no point in debating, since the opposite side is obviously not even welcome to share their views without being trashed. I get that I'm the odd one out, and I also seem to be one of the only religious people here. But show me some respect or I'll just get out, if you want.

I appreciate Brigid's responses. We've debated before, and I appreciate that you never once...made it seem like I was evil or selfish or sitting on a throne. That's the kind of civil debate you guys really need to allow, because the other responses were just rude. :/


message 45: by Brigid ✩ (new)

Brigid ✩ Thalia wrote: "Responding to Brigid's first post first.

I didn't say the 12-year-old should be forced to keep the baby. I said she should have it, and then do as she pleases; give it up for adoption or keep it (..."


Fair enough. I understand your point of view even if I disagree with it, and I don't think I can really say anything I haven't already said. :]

Also I'm glad I don't make you feel offended; I'm always paranoid about offending people...


message 46: by John (new)

John Egbert (heirofbreath) | 492 comments Aleph wrote: "i think don't go around judging people who have abortions until you've been in their position. the idea that abortion is wrong is in my oponion, 100% stupid. like tenebris in lux said: it is litera..."

I think you've put my name in here by mistake...I agree with everything you said 100%, but I just think life begins at conception. Even if it's a "big lump of cells" as you say, you do realize that your entire body is literally just a big lump of cells, correct?

And yes, to make it perfectly clear because I don't quite understand your message, I do not think a bunch of crotchety, old, sometimes perverted white males should be the judge of whether or not women of all races and ages should be allowed to have abortions. And if they do make it illegal it'll only make things much, much worse.


message 47: by luhvBOOKS (new)

luhvBOOKS Brigid *Flying Kick-a-pow!* wrote: "I don't care who you are, what you did, how you got pregnant

Sooo ... Say a 12-year-old girl gets raped and gets pregnant. You would force her to keep her child? Because in my opinion, that would ..."


First of all, Thalia made a point in saying you don't have to keep the child. You can give it up for adoption.

Secondly, how is it the mother's choice? Why is it the mother's choice? The right to live lies with the child, not the mother. Are you telling me your right to live is held in the hands of your mother? Because we all have our own rights, such as BREATHING, and no matter how small and young the baby is, they have those rights.


message 48: by luhvBOOKS (new)

luhvBOOKS Aleph wrote: "i think don't go around judging people who have abortions until you've been in their position. the idea that abortion is wrong is in my oponion, 100% stupid. like tenebris in lux said: it is litera..."

Who cares if its just a bunch of cells? I DO. Becuase it will grow inside of you and become a human being. You were just a bunch of cells once, I was just a bunch of cells once. If my mother aborted me before I was born, do you think that's right? She would never because she's very responcsible, but seriously would you be okay if you knew your mother aborted you. God gave life to the baby. God decides if it lives or not, for better or worse.


message 49: by John (last edited Oct 22, 2011 08:36AM) (new)

John Egbert (heirofbreath) | 492 comments luhvBOOKS *~Colin Morgan/JD Forever~* wrote: "Who cares if its just a bunch of cells? I DO."

That's fantastic. Then you know what, we'll transplant the baby into your body and you can carry it for nine months, you can give birth to it and you can feed and clothe it for the next 18 or so years of it's life while giving it the right amount of love and care.

What? Well you said you cared, so you obviously won't have a problem with these things. I'll send agents over tonight at 7 to acquire you for the surgery.

That last part may have been leaning on the sarcastic side :P


message 50: by luhvBOOKS (new)

luhvBOOKS First off, Mello, I didn't have irrensponsible sex, so its not my responsibility. And I would take carrying the baby instead of it DYING. Murder is a crime, and should have consequences. Abortion is just an easy way out of that, and its wrong.

Its not my responsibility. I didn't have sex. Whoever has sex should bear the results. Whether its STDs or a baby.


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