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SERIES—List & Discussions > Wars of Light & Shadow--Fugitive Prince, Ch X, XI, XII - SPOILERS!

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message 1: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments OK, Don't read unless you have finished, for spoilers surely do follow!

Here is the point where the story turns, twists, and deepens - and in Fire and Sword, we see something about the true colors of Arithon's character; also, we find out how scary the power of a DEAD DRAGON is; and get a demonstrable display of the arcane properties found in their skulls....! There are hidden mysteries in even innocuous lines; and of course, Caolle rises to the occasion in spectacular form.

So let the discussion and speculation begin!


message 2: by Michelle (new)

 Michelle (varmint3) | 34 comments Lirenda messed up long before I thought she would - I had been afraid that she would wait until she had the full power of Prime to pull such a spectacular screw-up! Poor Morriel can't die, now, though, without pretty much ending the Koriani order! Surely she can't pass her office to someone in such deep doo-doo (technical term, of course!)... and she is TIRED!

I was sad to see Caolle go, but WOW! he took down some big ones with him - Lirenda disgraced and fearing for her life, and the Koriani healer killed as an example to her of how he could take her out, too, if she didn't cooperate... her defection, however unwilling, totally undoes Morriel's plans for Arithon!

I feel so bad for Arithon that he is unable to forgive himself for the deaths he's caused (even though those deaths probably kept even greater numbers from suffering lingering death) and am amazed that he can still reach out to another in need through such pain (even if that reaching out serves his own purpose of opposing Lysaer's "justice" even as it saves the bard). What cruel "gifts" he bears! I expect that Jieret will be able to find his spirit and bring it back... but I assume this will bring another twist when it happens =)

There is not much of Lysaer in this chapter set, but I did go back and re-read the Koriani scrying of the princes' characters in The Curse of the Mistwraith p.622-623 as Janny suggested, and now recall that he really is at war with himself and is aware of this conflict, but has no idea how to resolve it. He too has a pair of "gifts" that play against each other to pull him further from balance and sanity...


message 3: by Charles (new)

Charles (charliewhip) | 141 comments Michelle wrote: "Lirenda messed up long before I thought she would - I had been afraid that she would wait until she had the full power of Prime to pull such a spectacular screw-up! Poor Morriel can't die, now, tho..."

Michelle, I am astonished at how deeply you are reading the series. Your observations about Lysaer are very acute. Wait until you see how Morriel "resolves her conflict" (SPOILER IF I SAY IT NOW).


message 4: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments Michelle wrote: "Lirenda messed up long before I thought she would - I had been afraid that she would wait until she had the full power of Prime to pull such a spectacular screw-up! Poor Morriel can't die, now, tho..."

That little, buried detail (about Lysaer) ... keep it in mind.

As we build from these events (Fugitive Prince) into Grand Conspiracy.


message 5: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments Charles wrote: " Michelle wrote: "Lirenda messed up long before I thought she would - I had been afraid that she would wait until she had the full power of Prime to pull such a spectacular screw-up! Poor Morriel c..."

Charles - good on the not spoiling - grin - I won't have to gag you. ;)


message 6: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments What about the Grimward? What might this sort of power suggest, with regard to Athera's great drakes?

Were you moved by Jieret's courage?

What did you think about Traithe, and his working, despite his impaired situation?


message 7: by Shel, Moderator (new)

Shel (shel99) | 2361 comments Mod
Michelle wrote: "Lirenda messed up long before I thought she would - I had been afraid that she would wait until she had the full power of Prime to pull such a spectacular screw-up! Poor Morriel can't die, now, tho..."

I just finished chapter XII, and Michelle, you've captured my thoughts exactly! I find myself sympathizing more and more with Morriel; though I dislike her actions, I can understand where she's coming from. And I am also VERY interested to see how things get resolved with Lirenda.

I also haven't forgotten that we haven't seen much of Elaira in this book...where is she going to come back into the main story? Because I'm certain that she will eventually :)

Regarding the Grimward - that even a DEAD drake has such power - wow! And I'm very impressed with Asandir and his determination to hold things stable as long as he can, even if it means he only can save one of the Alliance guardsmen, he's determined to do it. I hadn't realized how much I've missed Asandir until he showed up - we haven't seen much of him. I'm finding myself a bit frustrated with his hands-off approach to dealing with Dakar, but at the same time, it does seem to be working as Dakar is finally maturing - after so many centuries of living!

Traithe - I respect him immensely. To be able to go on as crippled as he is, knowing that he doesn't even know how much he's lost, has got to be so difficult! His quiet acceptance of his situation is impressive.


message 8: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments What might you speculate about Athera's great dragons?


message 9: by Charles (new)

Charles (charliewhip) | 141 comments Janny wrote: "What might you speculate about Athera's great dragons?"

Pure guess -- immense psychic/energetic powers; probably manifesters/creators as well


message 10: by orannia (new)

orannia What might you speculate about Athera's great dragons?

That if this is the power a dead drake can manifest...what would we see with a sleeping dragon or a living one?

Pure guess -- immense psychic/energetic powers; probably manifesters/creators as well.

IIRC, wasn't it the dragons that created the Seardluin? They scared me silly! Predators to the bone...and intelligent! A bad, bad combination.

I was so sorry to read of Caolle's passing. He was in a place of what could have been complete despair, but...his courage and faith in Arithon and what Arithon represents (the chance for the clans to leave exile) - he fought despair, fought out of the corner and literally snatched a victory.

As for Lirenda...running from feeling anything. It's like she thinks power will replace emotion. I hate to think what will happen if Lirenda meets Arithon face to face!


message 11: by Michelle (new)

 Michelle (varmint3) | 34 comments Janny wrote: "What might you speculate about Athera's great dragons?"

If a dead one creates a landscape convincing enough to kill the living who step within unaware, living dragons imaginings must have BEEN reality for anyone near enough to feel their power... and that must have been a huge distance, too! The grimward was not a small area...


message 12: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Janny wrote: "What might you speculate about Athera's great dragons?"

Well, they're scary as hell, for one thing. The scene in Ships when Asandir tells the s'Brydion brothers about the origins of Fellowship presence there tells us that they're immensely intelligent - to ask the F7 for help is pretty amazing in and of itself. But I think they definitely have a role in creation and their psychic power to bend the mind is pretty clear from the trip through the grimward.


message 13: by Janny (new)

Janny (jannywurts) | 1003 comments Michelle wrote: "Janny wrote: "What might you speculate about Athera's great dragons?"

If a dead one creates a landscape convincing enough to kill the living who step within unaware, living dragons imaginings must..."


Watch for it.

How might this affect or change your perceptions of Athera, the Paravians, the very fabric of this world as the platform for a history that may not match the bias of our (earth based) assumptions?


message 14: by Kathi, Moderator & Book Lover (new)

Kathi | 3329 comments Mod
My random thoughts as I finished this chapter set:

Well, it occurred to me that Athera exists in the imagination of the dragons, and the humans are allowed to exist there because of ... well, whatever the pact the F7 and clans made with the Paravians, also too "intense" for mere humans.

Caolle amazed me--so intelligently, single-mindedly driven, despite his wounds and pain. That whole sequence was very inventive.

Asandir may have been determined to save any Alliance guardsmen by holding the grimward as stable as possible, although from Arithon's standpoint, it might be better if none survive to spread more hate and fear.

I agree with Michelle that Lirenda's over-reaching and ambition caused her to slip up sooner than expected. I'm sure she still has a major role of some kind to play... will she become a priestess in the Alliance of Light? And I keep expecting Morriel to just disintegrate into dust--how can she keep going? And how will she bring another Senior along quickly enough to assume the role of Prime?

Traithe has such dignity. Perhaps because of his "damage", he seems the most "human" of the Fellowship.

Hope to finish the book tomorrow...


message 15: by orannia (new)

orannia And I keep expecting Morriel to just disintegrate into dust...

I keep wishing it *grin*

And I love your thoughts about Traithe. He does seem the most human.


message 16: by Sandra (new)

Sandra  (sleo) | 1141 comments Yes, me, too. I hadn't thought about Traithe that way, but you're right. Still, I'm fond of all of them.

Morriel should go like Rumpelstiltskin, ha.


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