Axis Mundi X discussion

Things We Can't See

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message 1: by RandomAnthony (last edited Jul 21, 2008 04:34AM) (new)

RandomAnthony Ok, I have a weird one. I'm convinced there are creatures, spirits, beings, I don't know what to call them, are all around us but unseen.

I realize I'm putting myself out there for mockery, but why wouldn't there be entities either slightly beyond our perceptions or particularly skillful at hiding from us? Why would we be so arrogant as to believe that our senses take in everything out there?

I'm not sure if these beings are fairies, angels, ghosts, or something else. But I think they're present. And if I meditate and stay very quiet I think I can feel them a bit more. Maybe I'm fooling myself.

Comments? Anyone else sense things we can't see?

Servius  Heiner  | 1980 comments Mod
Not to long ago there was a special on the History channel highlighting “RODS” These “rods” have been captured on film quiet a bit. The thing is you can only spot them if you slow the frame rate down considerably. This means they are hauling booty. Most of the persons interviewed said it was trick photography, but if that is the case why are so many government world wide investigating them? And I really don’t think the media would be able to pull off a large scale hoax like this. That’s kind of like saying President Bush could pull off something “tricky”.

message 3: by Hayley (new)

Hayley | 576 comments I agree with you RA, I think there are spirits, ghosts, whatever you want to call them. The company I work for is partly based in an old mill and it has been reported at night (nightshift have reported these, as well as secruity) that they can hear children running about and when they go to tell them to get out the building there is no one there.

message 4: by Jackie "the Librarian", Cool Star Trek Nerd (new)

Jackie "the Librarian" | 1818 comments Mod
There are more things on heaven and earth...

Sure, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if there were things in different dimensions we haven't discovered yet. I like the idea of buildings absorbing strong emotions from people, and projecting them back out to create "ghosts".
Mary Roach's book Spook investigates ghosts, and clairvoyants, and other related topics. It's nonconclusive, as you'd imagine, but fascinating to read and consider.

message 5: by Charissa, That's Ms. Obnoxious Twat to You. (new)

Charissa (dakinigrl) | 3620 comments Mod
I have had many many many encounters with ghosts, ancestors, sprites, pixies, and... well... other unexplained phenomena. I don't pretend to understand it, except in ways that make sense in my own mind. I don't question it, nor really feel the need to. As Jackie quoted, more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy... indeed.

But in my study of quantum physics and string theory, I have learned enough to know that there is sufficient scientific underpinnings for those things to be incorporated in the building blocks of our universe.

I tend to come from the POV that no one is wrong. Religion, meta physics, science, artists, crazy people... are all speaking a different language. Every person has something true to offer us about the reality of the world... if we know how to listen.

message 6: by Lori (new)

Lori I DO believe in spooks, I DO believe in spooks, I do I do I do I do I DO believe in spooks.

Servius  Heiner  | 1980 comments Mod
Well I believe in rods

message 8: by Charissa, That's Ms. Obnoxious Twat to You. (new)

Charissa (dakinigrl) | 3620 comments Mod
spare the rod, spoil the child.

message 9: by RandomAnthony (new)

RandomAnthony No, Sarah, they're circling your house and preparing for mischief.

Servius  Heiner  | 1980 comments Mod
I would just one up them before they can cause the mischief. Cut all your shoe laces when you get home. I don't want you falling down any stairs.

message 11: by Jackie "the Librarian", Cool Star Trek Nerd (new)

Jackie "the Librarian" | 1818 comments Mod
I don't believe in fairies either, Sarah, but I think there are phenomena that we haven't discovered yet.

message 12: by Paul (new)

Paul Bryant One of my dearest wishes is not to see dead people. One of your most repulsive practises (not you personally, Mrs K) is to dress up your dear departed in a whistle and flute and slap some makeup on and take th kids and go view the body. It's so gruesome - why why why would anyone do that? Why??? The very though gives me the heeby jeebies.
By the way - no fairies, no nothing, it's all in your mind. Y'all expected that of me, Mr No Imagination.

message 13: by Jackie "the Librarian", Cool Star Trek Nerd (new)

Jackie "the Librarian" | 1818 comments Mod
I think Mr. Skeptical suits you better, Paul.

Creepy structure, Ko. Do you like getting the heebie-jeebies? I do, but it's rare that I truly get them. I get creeped out from basements, sometimes, thanks to "The Blair Witch Project".

Books Ring Mah Bell Paul, my dad is a mortician! I grew up visiting morgues and hanging out in the prep (embalming) room. That explains a lot, I guess.

I can't wait to get into this topic... right after dinner.

message 15: by Varmint (new)

Varmint ever wonder why news anchors wear such ugly clothes? i've seen the memos. certain colors, vertical stripes play hell with video equipment. now suppose you have a bug flapping it's wings at thirty beats per sec, being filmed by a camera at thirty frames per sec.

it's gonna give you a weird ass effect.

plenty of strange things in the world, rods aren't among them.

message 16: by B. (new)

B. (briant) | 99 comments There are great numbers of spirits and powers all around us. Once in a while, we get a glimpse of these beings, sometimes accidently, sometimes because they wish to contact us. Skeptics are like a blind man who insists that there are no such things as colors because he cannot see them. If one persists in saying these things are not there because one has never seen them, perhaps this belief itself prevents any such perception. Open minds, open senses. Sara and Paul, I would be happy to attempt to send one of the unseen your way, if you like. And no, I'm not kidding.

message 17: by Sarah (last edited Jul 21, 2008 03:25PM) (new)

Sarah (songgirl7) Sarah, have you read Peter Pan? I'm thinking as a children's librarian, you had to have read it. Tinkerbell's a total bitch. Let her die. Heh.

message 18: by B. (new)

B. (briant) | 99 comments Varmint, same offer to you.

message 19: by Varmint (new)

Varmint B

i once freaked out a scientologist co-worker by pretending to throw THETANS at him. your welcome to send some ghosts my way. tell them it's byob at my place saturday.

message 20: by B. (new)

B. (briant) | 99 comments Will do. Just keep an open mind, all I ask. These things don't always listen and, when they do respond, it is for their own purposes. Be observant to the area around you for a couple of days, the way you are when traveling in a new place, and see what pops up. ( or not)

message 21: by B. (new)

B. (briant) | 99 comments Ko, same advice as above. Be open to contact for, say, three days. Nights are better than days for seeing, but indoors or outside makes no difference... just depends on the entity. Your Aunt Hannah is around you often, because you call her every time you go online and look at your avatar. I imagine she is quite pleased.

message 22: by Paul (new)

Paul Bryant B, tell us, what do they look like? Do they talk? Are they your friends?

Anyone - can you explain this American desire to see your relative laying in the coffin? You need to take a step back. It's frankly very icky.

Books Ring Mah Bell I am not a believer in spirits. I'd like to believe, so when I die I can play fun tricks and visit my loved ones, but I just don't buy it.

ok, so maybe a part of me does. Growing up in the funeral industry, you may think I'd be numb to it, not creeped out, but the very last place you will ever catch me is in a cemetery at night.
No freaking way!!

I thank the horror stories I was reading at age 12 along with those terrible horror movies. (combined with a touch of Catholicism, making The Exorcist terrifying.)

Paul, I think the custom is warped and bizzare. I have been to funerals where people take pictures (PICTURES!) of the deceased in the coffin. (Creative Memories scrapbooking does not have little stickers for that, I'm sure)
I have discussed this repeatedly with my dad, who maintains it's for "closure".
I don't need to see it. I'll get the point that Grandma is dead when I set up the estate sale.

I myself, plan on being a "box and burn" - no viewings, instant cremation.

message 24: by Kelly (last edited Jul 22, 2008 06:19AM) (new)

Kelly Paul, I think you're very intelligent, and I really respect your often very layered and insightful opinions. I just need to say the one thing: I do think you've really got to stop doing this whole thing where you immediately jump on the idea that something you don't like is peculiarly "American." It's very us vs. them of you. It's extremely unhelpful and off putting, and very much like the black and white perspective of the evangelicals who you've made it very clear you ahem.. do not think well of. I'm sure you're aware enough of the US to realize that you can't generalize something as "American," in as polarized a country as ours. You've done this several times now, and I really just felt like I finally had to say something.

Americans are hardly the only culture to have open casket funerals. Come on, now. And I don't know what the stats are on open casket funerals here, but I would be surprised if everyone or possibly even a majority did them. Its not something I think I would personally favor doing, but then again, how would I know until I'm in the situation of having to set up a funeral? Right now I find the idea awful, but who can say how I'd deal with it then? I think we need to think very hard before we harshly judge what people do in depths of grief.

Books Ring Mah Bell Americans are hardly the only culture to have open casket funerals. Come on, now. And I don't know what the stats are on open casket funerals here, but I would be surprised if everyone or possibly even a majority did them.

Kelly makes a great point. We (Americans) are actually getting a much higher cremation rate.. one local funeral home that did 90% "traditional" funerals is now doing almost 50% cremation! Cremation is growing in popularity, and many times, people opt for a memorial service without a viewing. (though you certainly can have both)
This shift is due to:
1. people wanting to be "green" and take up less space upon death.
2. Economics. Much cheaper to cremate. This is a trend that has funeral directors concerned.

message 26: by Kelly (last edited Jul 22, 2008 06:32AM) (new)

Kelly From the 'Cremation Association of America'. Wow, there's a fun meeting for you. Anyway:

It says the national cremation rate is 46%, and then lists breakdowns of why people choose cremation. It appears BRMB is right, as these are the top three reasons: "save money (30%); because it is simpler, less emotional and more convenient (14%); and to save land (13%). Those who favor cremation tend to be better educated and from household with higher incomes."

message 27: by Hayley (new)

Hayley | 576 comments I don't see it the way Paul does, I'm from Britian and every funeral I've attended has been open casket. When it was my grandad who died I couldn't look into the casket because it was too painful but for my Grandma is was a comfort for her because she could still see him. We had a grand wake - in the tradition of the Irish (my grandma and grandad where both from South Ireland) and everyone got pissed and told funny stories about my grandad and ended the night singing Irish songs.

I was once told by a guy who is a cleaner in our warehouse, that he sensed I had a ghostly guardian and he described what he could see and freakly enough he described my died grandad - it was the spookiest moment of my life.

message 28: by Hayley (new)

Hayley | 576 comments I know what you mean Bunny, I still believe in the unseen, just because you can't see it doesn't mean its not there.

Its true though, some guy at work did tell me I had a ghostly guardian adn it was my grandad - my grandad had been dead 2 years by this point.

Servius  Heiner  | 1980 comments Mod
Hoax! It's all about the rods. RODS I tell you!

message 30: by Hayley (new)

Hayley | 576 comments Nick what you babbling on about!!! what the bloody hell are RODS????

BTW how british did I just sound lol

message 31: by Kelly (new)

Kelly Well actually, Donald. I've just got finished with a novel set in the 19th century, Victorian England. And there actually used to be a debate about whether cremated people were damned to hell. Destruction of the body that God gave them, etc, etc. Big debate between religious authorities and a lot of practical people who saw the disease and poison that a lot of decaying corpses around London were spreading.

... wow, this thread has drifted, hasn't it?

I mean.. I like fairies. At least the fun kind from Shakespeare's Midsummer Night's Dream. Yeah.

message 32: by Kelly (new)

Kelly Donald: Crimson Petal and the White. The cremation arguement comes up between the two most religious characters in the book.

... I don't remember death albums in Huck Finn. Either it was too long ago, or I read some abridged version without that... Ew.

message 33: by Sally (new)

Sally (mrsnolte) Koeeoaddi, re 17, where in Wyoming is this creepy house? Sounds day-trip worthy to me...

message 34: by Charissa, That's Ms. Obnoxious Twat to You. (new)

Charissa (dakinigrl) | 3620 comments Mod
I went to my very first open casket funeral a couple of years ago. I had no idea it was going to be open casket before I got there. Almost everyone in my family who has died has been cremated, with the exception of my Uncle Jeff who had a closed casket. I can tell you there in nothing more startling than walking into a room and seeing an embalmed corpse laying in a box. GROSS!!!! I made my family promise me, don't you fucking do that to me. If you embalm my dead corpse I'm totally coming back from the grave and haunting your asses. I'll shove your freaking car off the road at night, you bastards. Crazy Baptists!!!

message 35: by Ruth (new)

message 36: by Jackie "the Librarian", Cool Star Trek Nerd (last edited Jul 22, 2008 01:47PM) (new)

Jackie "the Librarian" | 1818 comments Mod
Oh, I love that book, Sarah M.! Good recommendation! Everyone, you would not believe how entertaining Mary Roach can be describing all the ways corpses are used to medicine, science and forensics.

I second Sarah's recommendation of Stiff for the non-squeamish.

message 37: by Paul (new)

Paul Bryant Kelly - sorry, and all that. I am a great fan of all things American, as surely you all know by now. Some of what you do is peculiar to me. The open casket thing is an example. It pops up so often in movies etc that I was thinking it was nearly universal. If you're interested, I rush to the defence of American culture here

message 38: by Varmint (new)

Varmint i'll be in my garage friday midnight, pacific time. any of you all who want to dispatch a spirit with a message are invited to try. tell your ghoul to make the lights flicker, or have a coyote howl. levitating something gets extra points. though if they spill my beer some spectral ass is gonna get kicked.

Servius  Heiner  | 1980 comments Mod
Rods are sooooo real. Take it back KD...

message 40: by Jackie "the Librarian", Cool Star Trek Nerd (new)

Jackie "the Librarian" | 1818 comments Mod
i wouldn't believe in anything, if it weren't for my lucky mood ring...

message 41: by Jackie "the Librarian", Cool Star Trek Nerd (new)

Jackie "the Librarian" | 1818 comments Mod
I'm very moody, you see. I Happy, sad, grouchy, perky... Who's to know, without the ring decoder?

*original mood ring quote stolen from Steve Martin

message 42: by Jackie "the Librarian", Cool Star Trek Nerd (new)

Jackie "the Librarian" | 1818 comments Mod
Spiritual stick insects. Hmmm. Not all that spooky, somehow.

message 43: by Jackie "the Librarian", Cool Star Trek Nerd (new)

Jackie "the Librarian" | 1818 comments Mod
And woodchucks. I hear some people are scared of woodchucks.

Other people just want to know how much wood a woodchuck chucks...

message 44: by Jackie "the Librarian", Cool Star Trek Nerd (new)

Jackie "the Librarian" | 1818 comments Mod
Your description of woodchucks made me think of this book, Bunny:
Diary of a Wombat by Jackie French.

You know, you could write a similar book about your woodchucks...

message 45: by Jackie "the Librarian", Cool Star Trek Nerd (new)

Jackie "the Librarian" | 1818 comments Mod
Your screaming martens and fishers sound even worse than the bellowing drunks I get on the street in front of my house some weekends, Bunny. I'm right on a main street, although my house is somewhat camouflaged up a ferny slope from street level.

I can always call the police if things get too loud, but I doubt any emergency services would come to quiet down your weasels.

message 46: by Jackie "the Librarian", Cool Star Trek Nerd (new)

Jackie "the Librarian" | 1818 comments Mod
Bunny Watson: I expect I probably don't really need emergency services to protect me from the screaming weasels.

I will treasure this Bunny quote forever!

message 47: by Jackie "the Librarian", Cool Star Trek Nerd (new)

Jackie "the Librarian" | 1818 comments Mod
Chris reminded me just now that we had a mystery sound at our house, too. Something going "Squeak!!!" "Squeak!!!" very loudly, and always on the west side of the house.

It turns out that our neighbors have a cat named Squeak, and our big manly neighbor was calling her to come inside in a very loud falsetto. Funniest thing in the world!

message 48: by Jackie "the Librarian", Cool Star Trek Nerd (new)

Jackie "the Librarian" | 1818 comments Mod
Love Jack Handey and Deep Thoughts! Ha ha ha!

Oops! I'm gonna turn into a pumpkin, because it's after 11:00. Or get slapped by a fish. Goodnight, all!

message 49: by Sarah (new)

Sarah (songgirl7) It's just now 11 by my clock, Jacks.

message 50: by Lori (new)

Lori Jackie that's so funny! Squeak!

Now hold on Bunny, you say these rods travel across the field of vision? When I was a wee wee lass, I swear those are what I saw! I always saw them when I took a pee, and kind of had that zone-out focus. I thought I was seeing atoms!

I DO believe in rods,...

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