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Science > Plants: Alive or not?

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message 1: by Andrez (new)

Andrez (andrez-ssi) Okay, there seems to be a very heated discussion on the Vegetarianism thread about whether plants are alive or not, so I simply decided to make a thread for it.

So, have fun!


message 2: by David (new)

David jones | 135 comments Plants are alive, cause they take food, and suck up water and need the sun to grow. Like if you plant a seed for a plant, it will grow.


message 3: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) Plants are alive yes, but not in the way a animals are. As Stray said on the vegethread, I can eat a carrot without killing the plant. And why would I pluck the whole plant, when I could let it grow to become many carrots?


message 4: by Amina (new)

Amina  (journalistam) That's like saying; I'm gonna have the chicken leg, let the chicken live and grow another leg :P

ok, that sounds totally wird, see?


message 5: by Gatorman (new)

Gatorman But nobody is saying that. A chicken and a plant are not the same. A plant can lose a carrot or an ear of corn and grow another and be fine. A chicken cannot grow another leg. Don't you see the difference?


message 6: by Lauren (new)

Lauren Plants are alive, and they keep us alive because they give out Oxygen.


message 7: by Amina (new)

Amina  (journalistam) Yeh, true. all three of u. but from the begining i'm saying; it's not about whther plants, more specifically, veges and fruits, do not feel pain. It's abt the fact that they are alive, therefore, picking or cutting them will be considered murder too.

Becauseeee, animals don't feel pain either if they are slaughtered the proper way. then why d'u have a problem with the meat of those animals?


message 8: by Jerry (new)

Jerry | 850 comments because i don't think plants have feelings


message 9: by Jerry (new)

Jerry | 850 comments Eating meat is a part of life. Would you begrudge a wolf or lion its meal? i consider vegetarianism to be unnatural. Animals like cows and squirrels and sheep and deer and rabbits are MEANT to be eaten. That's their purpose in life, while the purpose of predators is to eat them. Plants are also meant to be eaten. They exist to support life.


message 10: by Lauren (new)

Lauren I agree with Donatello, though i dont think its fine to be a vegetarian, but its not like its bad to eat meat because its just the food chain, animals eat other animals and we eat them too, to live.


message 11: by Jerry (new)

Jerry | 850 comments it's the circle of life. (cliche, i know)
like jack london said, eat or be eaten.


message 12: by [deleted user] (new)

Emma (Soul of sunshine) wrote: "Plants are alive yes, but not in the way a animals are. As Stray said on the vegethread, I can eat a carrot without killing the plant. And why would I pluck the whole plant, when I could let it gro..."

i agree...


message 13: by Gatorman (new)

Gatorman мα∂ison εℓyse *HEY MONDAY!=D* wrote: "BUT THEY AREN'T ever SLAUGHTERED THE "PROPER WAY!"
And who's to decide which way is proper? Killing a plant is NOT murder, plants are there for us to use, to breath from, to eat. Plants are an esse..."


What about the fact that many animals are bred for the sole purpose of being killed for food? The only reason they are alive in the first place is so they can be used for food. It's not like the only way meat eaters get their food is by going out in the wild and killing animals that were not meant to be food.

And to call meat eaters "antivegans" is to ignore reality. I have nothing against vegetarians and eat plenty of vegetables myself as do most of the meat eaters I know. I happen to choose to eat meat in addition to vegetables. Doesn't make us antivegan.


message 14: by [deleted user] (new)

мα∂ison εℓyse *HEY MONDAY!=D* wrote: "BUT THEY AREN'T ever SLAUGHTERED THE "PROPER WAY!"
And who's to decide which way is proper? Killing a plant is NOT murder, plants are there for us to use, to breath from, to eat. Plants are an esse..."


I AGREE!!


message 15: by [deleted user] (new)

Though i wouldnt call them "Antivegan"...


message 16: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) @Madi: It's not that I don't see the point of being a vegetarian. I just don't want to be one. I make sure that the meat I eat is killed in the right way, believe me I can use aeon on shopping food, cause I check up on the meat before i buy it. And I wouldn't call myself an antivegan, as I eat plenty of vegetables too, at least as much as I eat meat actually.


message 17: by Gatorman (new)

Gatorman Ok, but your comment was "you antevegans". I don't see where anyone on the thread was being antevegan at all.


message 18: by Kylee (new)

Kylee (kyleerae23) I think there is definitely a reasonable difference between animals and plants. But I do however think that plants are alive and can possibly feel pain. I think that people just aren't as disturbed by "murdering" plants because they don't have voices to scream with or produce babies, and you don't really have interection or companionship with plants like you do animals.


message 19: by Michael (new)

Michael Yes, plants are alive. However plants do not have a central nervous system like animals and feel no pain when they're harvested for food.


message 20: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) Compare it to swatting a bug.


message 21: by Amina (new)

Amina  (journalistam) like i've said be4, if u slaughter in the proper way, the animal wont 'scream' or 'cry' or watevr. it won't evn feel the pain.

and those who says 'they AREN'T slaughetered the proper way', cum tp Pakistan. they do it the way here :) and m sure of it because it's a main thing in our relegion. We arnt allowed te meat of an animal that hasn't been slaughtered the rite way


message 22: by Kylee (last edited Nov 07, 2010 10:25AM) (new)

Kylee (kyleerae23) While it may be done the right way there, not everyone does it that way and it's horrible animal cruelty. And I doubt that everyone there does it the right way, no offense.

Now that I think about it, is there even a right way to slaughter a defenseless animal?


message 23: by Amina (new)

Amina  (journalistam) yes there is, to ur last question. done in a way that the animal feels no pain is the rite way... for us, anyway.

And yes, maybe not everyone does it the rite way here, but where I live they do. I mean my area anyway. Like i said be4, if one suspicious person voiced his suspicion that the animal isn't being lsaughteerd properly, the muslims would have an uproar. because it is totally unpermissible for us to eat such meat.


message 24: by Amina (new)

Amina  (journalistam) blv me, no-one wld risk sumthing like that. wen we get angry, we really get angry!


message 25: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) As gatorman said; Most of those animals wouldn't even be alive if not for slaughtering. So, if you buy the real deal animals that haven't been treated poorly in life... Well, you get the picture now I'm sure. Fact is; few people go into the jungle/woods/forest to kill an animal that wouldn't have died if they hadn't.


message 26: by Kylee (new)

Kylee (kyleerae23) Rj Amina wrote: "yes there is, to ur last question. done in a way that the animal feels no pain is the rite way... for us, anyway.

And yes, maybe not everyone does it the rite way here, but where I live they do...."


What is the right way? Like how is it done?


message 27: by Amina (new)

Amina  (journalistam) if u hit the jugular vein directly, then the animal isn't able to feel the pain. we are also not allowed to shoot the animal from far away in the leg or watevr, or cause it any pain.

i dont noe much, m not a slaugheterer!


message 28: by [deleted user] (new)

I havn't heard much about the right way...only the wrong way....it's cruel...


message 29: by Kylee (new)

Kylee (kyleerae23) Rj Amina wrote: "if u hit the jugular vein directly, then the animal isn't able to feel the pain. we are also not allowed to shoot the animal from far away in the leg or watevr, or cause it any pain.

i dont noe ..."


Then how do you truly know it's not causing any pain? Imagine the fear it has when its about to die. And I don't believe that by slicing it in the right spot doesn't cause any pain. It may be brief, but it's still pain. It's like telling someone not to worry about dying because you're going to shoot them in the head, so it will only hurt for a second.


message 30: by Jerry (new)

Jerry | 850 comments actually, animal dung and their dead carcasses fertilize plants. so we technically DO need them. anyway, you only say that because our lives are so easy. in earlier times, people had to struggle for every bite of food. without animals, our earliest ancestors would probably have died.


message 31: by Kylee (new)

Kylee (kyleerae23) Yeah, while that is a valid point, we aren't living in that time now. But that doesn't mean we should change... I guess I'm not sure how I feel about this. I'm against animal cruelty but not eating meat, which I guess makes me kind of a hypocrite since most of the meat eaten came from an animal that was in pain at one time...


message 32: by Jerry (new)

Jerry | 850 comments well, maybe that's being kosher. you only eat animals that have been killed humanely, and don't eat dairy and meat together because that's taking away a baby animal's mother and sustenance at the same time.
isn't it ironic that being killed painlessly is called humane? humans are anything but humane. we massacre each other daily! strange how we have more regard for animals than for ourselves...


message 33: by [deleted user] (new)

True...but what is humane slaughter? In my mind...it doesn't exist...maybe they don't feel pain physicaly but they can still feel fear, love and longing.


message 34: by Kylee (new)

Kylee (kyleerae23) Donatello wrote: "well, maybe that's being kosher. you only eat animals that have been killed humanely, and don't eat dairy and meat together because that's taking away a baby animal's mother and sustenance at the s..."

While it is ironic, I also find it slightly sad... I don't really think there is any way to die painlessly unless it's through an overdose of pain killers or in your sleep.


message 35: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) ... Overdose of painkillers ain't painless...


message 36: by Amina (new)

Amina  (journalistam) exaclty. Overdose of painkillers is the wors way, and worng way, to kill an animal.

and nemoica, rowan and whoevr else: hitting the jugular vein had been proved to be painless. Also, I've said before, that the animal shouldn't be aware that it is going to die because that's just torture. we are forbidden to even sharpen knifes or watevr in front of it so it doesn't get scared.


message 37: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) And seriously, RJ Amina? Who are you kidding? Do you actually know where you get your meat from? Probably not. These people don't care whether or not they torture the animal, they are just trying to get food on the table like you are. No offense to your religion or anything, hey, I might be wrong! But I don't think so.

Woah Woah Madi! Calm down! Relax... Take it eeeeeeaaaasyyyy! Anyway, we all know that animals are treated like hell most places in America (ain't no diss, I love America, but hey - it's the truth). Fact is though, not every country does that. I do believe there's a law here, in DK, about how to treat animals. The only time IN MY LIFE I've ever seen one of those animal wagons in DK, it was just driving trough. I've been to farms God-Knows how many times. And I'm talking about the real deal. Slaughtering farms. Heck, I've seen a chicken loose it's head once. And I tell you; animals aren't always treated the way you described in your previous post. In some parts of the world they are, but not everywhere.
... Please don't yell at me, I'm but explaining calmly how things are done where I live.


message 38: by Gatorman (new)

Gatorman So, Madi, are you against the killing of any animal in any manner for use as food, or only against the killing of animals for food by the methods you so graphically described?


message 39: by Jerry (new)

Jerry | 850 comments so are you against carnivores like wolves and lions? that would be ironic because they're animals too.


message 40: by Gatorman (new)

Gatorman So then that goes back to a previous post of mine which went unanswered. What about the fact that many animals are bred for the sole purpose of being killed for food? The only reason they are alive in the first place is so they can be later killed and used for food.


message 41: by Jerry (new)

Jerry | 850 comments chickens and cows and pigs and fish and squirrels and rabbits and deer exist to be eaten. humans and wolves and lions and sharks exist to eat those animals.


message 42: by Jerry (new)

Jerry | 850 comments мα∂ison εℓyse *HEY MONDAY!=D* wrote: "@Gatorman: that's sick and disgusting.

@Donatello: the animals that wolves and lions hunt are their only source of food, the would die without eatinn meat. We would not"


what gatorman says is true


message 43: by [deleted user] (new)

мα∂ison εℓyse *HEY MONDAY!=D* wrote: "OK. Animals aren't killed by the jugular vein or overdose. Cows are shot with a metal bullet into the brain, many times not killing the animal. Then they are strung up by their hooves, and their th..."

*gag* seen this stuff on video....it's not cool...


message 44: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) EVERYBODY'S seen those videos.


message 45: by [deleted user] (new)

Have they? Then why don't people see?


message 46: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) Because there's no point in it. You can stop eating meat if you want to, but I ain't gonnas top eating it.

- And I'm gonna warn you; if you try to "turn" me, I'll get extremly pissed. Like I don't have enough vegetarians in my life trying to do that already.


message 47: by [deleted user] (new)

You've already warned me and i'm not like that. I give my opinion, that agree or disagree. *shrugs*


message 48: by Kylee (new)

Kylee (kyleerae23) I guess I've kind of just accepted that people aren't going to stop eating meat or slaughtering animals in cruel ways. I think it's horrible sad that I have to accept this and move on but I truly don't believe that people will change *shrugs* sorry...


message 49: by Jerry (new)

Jerry | 850 comments мα∂ison εℓyse *HEY MONDAY!=D* wrote: "Donatello wrote: "chickens and cows and pigs and fish and squirrels and rabbits and deer exist to be eaten. humans and wolves and lions and sharks exist to eat those animals."

Sure, we exist to ea..."


Haven't you seen any predator on TV hunting? it gets pretty bloody. Ever watched Shark Week on Discovery?


message 50: by Jerry (new)

Jerry | 850 comments Humans are actually more humane than most animals.


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