Clockwork Angel (The Infernal Devices, #1) Clockwork Angel discussion


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Are They The Same? (Sorry Its So Long)

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message 1: by Nathalienne (new) - added it

Nathalienne 1)I seem to remember that the clan/coven of vampires Simon was ultimately sired by had lost there leader whose name was Camille, is that the same vampiress that was the informant to the Institute in London? And if so did she leave because if the events that transpired in the Infernal Devices trilogy? And is her leaving why Magnus is in New York for the events of the Mortal Instruments novels? Secondly, the leader of the clan said she had not yet returned, did she leave for the Accords in Idris or did something more vile happen?

2) Is Jems cat Church the same cat that is seen in the New York Institute? Or a descendant of the original Church? The latter would make more sense given the age gap between the events however we are dealing with magic here and there both Persians so both could be options.

3) This one is more speculation then anything, however if true it could explain things that happened in the Mortal Instruments novels.
In The Clockwork Angel we find that the Lightwood clan is very unhappy with Will for something he did to there daughter/sister. All the Lightwoods are described as in this book as being fair haired and mostly green eyed, yet the Max, Alec and Izzy we know in the future are all blue eyed and dark haired like Will is. And Gabriel Lightwood accused Will of taking his sisters virtue, and is Will had and she had a child from there-ehem-meeting then it would make sense for the later generations to all have darker colourings. If this is true, and we can already surmise that Jace is the descendant of Will, then Jace is in fact related to the Lightwoods and would make sense as to why he felt so connected to them. Also if the Clave knew of this genealogical connection it may also have been a reason they sent Jace to live with the Lightwoods. It may also explain Alecs connection to him not only was Parabarti but his love too, Alec never getting to know other guys and being gay so confusing the type of love he held for Jace, thinking it being sexual rather then brotherly. This may also be the reason Magnus liked Alec on the spot, having been reminded of Will albeit without the underlying "darkness" Will possessed.

(Last one I swear!)
4)At the end of The Clockwork Angel, did Will do to Tessa what Jace did to Clary in the City of Glass? Making Tessa feel hatred towards him so Will a)woulndt have to confront his own feelings and b)think hes actually helping Tessa by doing this? Of this point I am sincerely hoping that it is as it, for myself at least, wouldnt make sense for it to be otherwise. Why else would he risk his like to save her? It also makes sense because why else would he have gone to Magnus at the end of the book, and although his intentions arent made clear, one could assume that he went to ask about Tessa, whether it be about what she is or even to talk to a nonjudgmental person about how it was he felt and what would be done about it.

***Random Thought***
Why is Magnus even dating Camille when he was pretty much shown as a very effeminate gay man? I dont mean to say he cant be bisexual but I didnt ever see Magnus dating a girl coming, if anything because of the resemblance of Will and Alec I thought Magus would have been wanting to have a relationship with Will? But Magnus seemed to genuinely care that Camille had been missing for several days, leaving me quite confused about this matter.

Thank you for bearing with me, I know it was very long, but if you have any thoughts or questions please reply as i would like to hear anyones thoughts on this.


message 2: by Nathalienne (new) - added it

Nathalienne ***Edit***

Ignore the part about me saying the Clave may have thought the Lightwoods were related to Jace, I forgot that they all assumed he was a Wayland. Sorry!


Emory Allison Monroe 1) Kinda. Not to be insulting, but, did you read the book? It said (I think Charolette did...) that Camille left because de Quincy would punish her or something for turning on him. And she probably stayed there (with evidence from the Mortal Instrument Series)
2)I think it might be further revealed in the books to be. But I would assume that it is the same cat. (though I thought Church in the MI series was blue... was the cat in the CA?)
3)Yes. Jace is indeed connected to the Herondale family. That does make sense, now that you say it...
Sounds like you have 4 pretty much figured out. Lol. I hope I helped. I would love to talk with you about the Clockwork Angel and Mortal Instrument Series (though I am only on the second one... I do knwo more than I should) more. :)


Adriana I'm fair amazed how much you've figured out. A lot of things really make sense when I think about it now.
I can't tell you anything that would solve the storyline because that's something only Cassandra Clare knows. Although I'd like to give you my opinion on the Magnus thing.
Magnus in CA is man of 19th century which means he just can't be gay even if he feels like that. Therefore he's dating Camille or at least I think so.
If you have some theories I'd really like to hear them :) They're interesting ....


Wendy Darling #2 Yes, Cassandra Clare has confirmed it's the same cat. How and why he ends up in New York gets explained later.

#4 I have a theory about Will's deep, dark secret and why he left his home and his parents and why he pushes everyone away. I could be majorly wrong, but given many of the clues Cassandra Clare drops (among them, his surprise when he kisses Tessa, his sleeplessness, his search for a cure to a problem, tears, blood) and questions that inevitably have to arise someday (Tessa is immortal...so will whoever ends up with her be with her forever?), it all makes me wonder whether she's headed in a certain direction with him. I don't want to say more in case it ends up being a spoiler!

December is too far away, ugh.


Alyssa i think most of the character may be the same like camille and high wizard of brooklyn but ive been confused on that topic because can aa wizard live that long?


Cherie @ Mimi, please tell me your theory. I would love to hear it.
#3 You think Will had a kid with the Lightwood girl so that's why Alec and Is have dark hair. Well this book takes place in 1878 which is more than 100 years apart from MI. Even if Will had a kid with the girl it would probably have nothing to do with them having dark hair. There is 100 years for some other dark haired person to step into the family. Hints also that Alec and Is's mom is dark haired. Also, if you have lived with someone long enough you grow a connection to them. You love them because they are there for you and take care of you. It has nothing to do with a blood line. Just saying, I don't think it was true. I think it was just some rumored scandal. You know how Will is ;)


Everley Sharp, the Clankinist And it also could be true. As you said, you know how Will is. Double edged sword, that one! XD

I want to know, is anyone else here team Will? Because I was seriously upset when I realized that, since warlocks or whatever are sterile, Tessa and Will can't really be together, because then there would be no Jace (unless Tessa is not actually like that. Or Will has a long lost brother they don't mention or something.))


message 9: by Wendy Darling (last edited Mar 31, 2011 10:43PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Wendy Darling I like Jem a lot...but I am totally Team Will!

@Cherie I'm messaging you separately.


message 10: by [deleted user] (new)

I love Jem and the fact that he plays the violine...but I think it will be better if Tessa and Will are together.


message 11: by Jade (last edited Apr 13, 2011 08:36AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jade Morgan @ Nathalienne 1) It is Camille, there very same person. Though as to if the event of the infernal Devices will bring about how they come to be where they are in the beginning of the Mortal Instruments series, I would assume so. Though only Ms. Clare knows.
2)I think so, I have asked Ms. Clare that but haven't gotten an answer yet.
3) As I understand it, Jace's hair is a result of his angelic blood, though I may be wrong.
4)I hope so too. I also think it may be possible he wants to ask Magnus to take away his emotions towards Tess, if that's even possible.

Magnus is Bisexual, that assumption was solidified in CoFA but I think it was hinted throughout every book he's been in.


*♥*Athena Leilani*♥* I have a question if anyone knows the answer. Actually a couple questions.
1. Is Jem just genuinely nice to Tessa or does he like her?
2. Is Tessa really sterile? Becasue they say that warlocks are but they also said that they weren't quite sure what exactly Tessa was?
3. Will is such a complex character for me. What happened in the end? It seemed like has starting to like her a lot throughout the book but at the end he was downright rude to her? He's confusing me?

Sorry if this is just me being brainless but I wasn't sure about these couple things. Thanks


message 13: by Jade (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jade Morgan @Robin Hood- Jem I think really likes her, but he's torn between his affection for Tess and his brotherly love for Will, knowing that Will is falling or already in love with her.

As for Tess, well only time will tell about her sterility. Only Cassandra Clare knows.

Will is a complex character, more so than even Jace I think. His actions in the end of the book was both a dramatic tactic on Ms. Clare's part and a perfect psychological piece to give you a hint of his character. In my opinion he was rude to her to push her away. He doesn't believe he is worthy of her because of whatever he did to his sister.

I hope this helps, but I'm sure that the next book will help you clear these things up as well. If you can wait until December.


Nurlely Clockwork Angel is the prequel of Mortal Instruments series. Jace Herondale is related to Will Herondale. The time is surely different. Clockwork Angel is during the 1800ish and Mortal Instruments is during this year...

To avoid confusion, read the books according to release dates. City of Bones, City of Ashes, City of Glass, Clockwork Angel, City of Fallen Angel and so on....

I am team Jace and Will...:)


*♥*Athena Leilani*♥* @ Jade. Thanks! that helps some, can't wait for the next book! it will help explain more things hopefully.


Sophia I like the theory of Will-has-taken-the-virtue ;)
...some of your facts sounded a bit strange...


message 17: by Nurlely (last edited Apr 23, 2011 09:26AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Nurlely Dear Nathalienne:
1. It was the same Camille. No idea what was happening to her during CA and MI
2.The name might be similar, Church, though not the colour. I do not think a cat could live that long except for all supernatural cause.
3.The Lightwoods were upset because Will slept with their sister.
4.I think Will would try his best to stay away from Tessa. I hope they could be together at the end.

Magnus loved all that were beautiful, males or females and Camille is a very beautiful vampire.


message 18: by Anne (new) - rated it 5 stars

Anne Is Will gay??


☼Marian☼ I hope the next book will clear things up on what Tessa really is. Even one of the Silent Brothers is confused, Tessa doesn't have a single sign of being a warlock but she was assumed as warlock.
Magnus Bane is bisexual. I think he already admitted that he had a relationship with Camille.


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