My Adventures Through Theology and Beyond discussion

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Impact > "In God We Trust"

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message 1: by [deleted user] (new)

What do you think about the "In God We Trust" on coins? What about the Ten Commandments being taken down everywhere?


message 2: by Nathan (new)

Nathan I hate "In God We Trust" on coins and paper money and the Ten Commandments should not be in any publicly funded space. Money is publicly funded and it should not contain any religious message.


message 3: by [deleted user] (new)

Girl4beluga wrote: "I have never found it a religious meaning....more like a patriotic thing."

Well, our founding fathers were christian so naturally there would be religious influence in their politics.....that's all i meant


message 4: by Emily (new)

Emily | 37 comments No, they weren't. Where do people get these ideas?


message 5: by Dibily Do (last edited Oct 29, 2010 06:59PM) (new)

Dibily Do yes they were, not all of them were Christan Christan but most of them did believe in God. How we get that is by taking a look at the documents

This is where I should of put this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlfEdJ...


message 6: by Nathan (new)

Nathan I have never found it a religious meaning....more like a patriotic thing.

How can you not see it as religious? It doesn't say, "In the US we trust." Where is the patriotism?


message 7: by Nathan (new)

Nathan yes they were, not all of them were Christan Christan but most of them did believe in God.

This is such Christian nonsense.

"Yes they were Christian! Most of them were. Well, they believed in God, so your statement that the founding fathers were not Christian is not true."

Like WTF? How contradictory and asinine does one have to be?


message 8: by Dibily Do (new)

Dibily Do ok consider this from the Founding Fathers quotes (P.S: Nathan knows that I already put this down in a other topic, but still, it would be much more use for it here)

1. The first bible printed in the USA was endorsed by congress and it was for the schools.

2. In 1620, the Pilgrims established the Mayflower Compact before they landed at Plymouth Rock. The document said: "In the name of God, Amen. We whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread sovereign Lord, King James, by the grace of God, of Great Britain, France and Ireland king, defender of the faith, etc., having undertaken, for the glory of God, and advancement of the Christian faith"

3. The Declaration said this: "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men...."

4. Patrick Henry said: This is all the Inheritance I can give to my dear Family. The Religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed

5. John Adams wrote Thomas Jefferson in June 28, 1813: The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence, were ... the general principles of Christianity

6. John Adams wrote a Letter to Thomas Jefferson November 4, 1816: Conclude not from all this, that I have renounced the Christian religion, or that I agree with Dupuis in all his Sentiments. Far from it. I see in every Page, Something to recommend Christianity in its Purity and Something to discredit its Corruptions. ... The Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount contain my Religion

7. Samuel Adams stated: We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come and First of all, I rely upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins.

8. Thomas Jefferson said: I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man and ?Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God

9. George Washington righting to Benedict Arnold in September 14, 1775: While we are contending for our own liberty, we should be very cautious not to violate the rights of conscience in others, ever considering that God alone is the judge of the hearts of men, and to him only in this case they are answerable.


10. John Jay said in October 12, 1816: Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.”


These are mostly founding fathers, I haven't even gotten to the documents. And if the founding fathers said this, and wrote the documents. I bet they have Christan ideas in them to. So are you going to say that this country was never a Christan Nation? I don't think so.


message 9: by Nathan (new)

Nathan Yup, we read your nonsense already, NSA.


message 10: by [deleted user] (new)

How can you say that the founding fathers aren't religious? They may not be "christians" but they had a religious impact on how the country was founded.


message 11: by Nathan (new)

Nathan How can you say that the founding fathers aren't religious? They may not be "christians" but they had a religious impact on how the country was founded.

First, I said many were not Christian. Second, regardless of which religion they were or were not, they specifically wanted to create a country where there was a separation between religion and government. Third, many were Deist. Deism is about as far from religion as one can be without being an atheist.


message 12: by [deleted user] (new)

Then why was "In God we Trust" on the coins? And why are the Ten Commandments up everywhere?


message 13: by Nathan (last edited Oct 30, 2010 10:47AM) (new)

Nathan Then why was "In God we Trust" on the coins?

Why do you have to ask? Are you really that lazy? You obviously have access to the internet as well as I do. Do some research. "In God We Trust" was not added to coins until the Civil War (1864). Last I checked, Lincoln wasn't a founding father. It was not added to bills until the late 1950s.

And why are the Ten Commandments up everywhere?

This is an idiotic question, because the simple answer is, they aren't.


message 14: by [deleted user] (new)

Did i say he was?

Uh, what about the Supreme Court building? Google it....you obviously have access to the internet


message 15: by [deleted user] (last edited Oct 30, 2010 11:03AM) (new)

There are bible verses etched in stone all over the Federal buildings and monuments in Washinton DC. Read that at http://www.snopes.com/politics/religi...


message 16: by Nathan (last edited Oct 30, 2010 11:07AM) (new)

Nathan Did i say he was?

Obtuse person,

You implied that our founding fathers were Christian because our money has "In God We Trust" printed on it. I noted that Lincoln was around when it was placed on money. This shows us that the founding fathers were not even alive when it was placed on the first coin and, as a result, has nothing to do with the religious nature of the founding fathers.

Uh, what about the Supreme Court building? Google it....you obviously have access to the internet

Boy, you are dumb. You said the Ten Commandments are "everywhere." When I say they are not everywhere, you say, "They are in the Supreme Court building." First, this is not "everywhere," it is one building. Second, it is an artistic representation within the building, not a declaration of the need for it to be followed. Duh...


message 17: by Nathan (new)

Nathan There are bible verses etched in stone all over the Federal buildings and monuments in Washinton DC.

Again you change your argument. You aren't even arguing the same thing you were arguing before. You said that the founding fathers were Christian. How would Bible quote on buildings that weren't even around when the founding fathers were alive prove anything about the founding fathers? Duh...


message 18: by [deleted user] (new)

I didn't say they were christians. I said they were religous and thus had a religious impact on the country. How many times do i have to say it? The first appeal for the "In God we Trust" on the coins came in 1861.

Did i say that the ten commandments were just on the supreme court building? You read into things too much. The ten commandments are posted in government buildings and schools all over the US.


message 19: by Nathan (last edited Oct 30, 2010 12:09PM) (new)

Nathan I didn't say they were christians. I said they were religous and thus had a religious impact on the country.

And every single one of your examples comes from a time period after the founding fathers had died! Use your brain.

The first appeal for the "In God we Trust" on the coins came in 1861.

Appeal, stupid. That means people wrote in and said they wanted it on there. It wasn't put on the coins until 1864. Last I checked the founding fathers founded the country in 1776.


Did i say that the ten commandments were just on the supreme court building? You read into things too much.


No, I read what is written. Your "support" for how the Ten Commandments are "everywhere" was stating that they are in one government building. Again, they are in an artistic mural on the wall. They aren't even fully listed or put in a position of honor. They aren't labeled as "The Ten Commandments" even.


The ten commandments are posted in government buildings and schools all over the US.


No, they aren't. And when people attempt to put them in public schools and goivernment buildings as an actual display that should be adhered to, the Supreme Court rules that they need to be taken out.


message 20: by [deleted user] (last edited Oct 30, 2010 12:48PM) (new)

You know, the "ad homonim" argument doesn't work. And you're not listening to me correctly.


message 21: by [deleted user] (new)

If the country wasn't first a little religious, why would they ask for the "In God We Trust" on coins? Where do you think that religious theme came from? I know that the coins weren't minted with that until later. What does that have to do with it?
I'm counting deists as religious too. I'm not just saying christianity.


message 22: by Nathan (last edited Oct 30, 2010 02:10PM) (new)

Nathan You know, the "ad homonim" argument doesn't work. And you're not listening to me correctly.

The term is ad hominem, and I did not use an ad hominem attack. Ad hominem is an attempt to use a personal attack in lieu of making an actual argument. I have not, nor ever, done that.

If the country wasn't first a little religious, why would they ask for the "In God We Trust" on coins?

So the fact that some people wanted "In God We Trust" put on money nearly 100 years after the founding of the country means that the country started out as a religious nation? Really? Are you even attempting to make this ridiculously idiotic claim. I mean, how are you not embarassed?

I know that the coins weren't minted with that until later. What does that have to do with it?

Everything. You are making a claim about beginnings. In that type of claim time means something. Over 90 years later is not the beginning.

I'm counting deists as religious too.

Why would you do that? They would never think it a good idea to put "In God We Trust" on money. Familiarize yourself with that belief system before you go saying something like that.


message 23: by [deleted user] (new)

But they still believe in God. That makes them different than atheists. What is deism though? They obviously believe in God, but it's not a religion? explain that.

What about the "obtuse person, dumb, lazy, and stupid." Isn't that attacking and judging a person?

Quote to me the time i said that they put "In God We Trust" 100 years before it was? Tell me that and then i will ammend my statement.


message 24: by Nathan (new)

Nathan
They obviously believe in God, but it's not a religion? explain that


They believe God created the universe and then removed himself from the equation. He does not interact or care about humans or anything that happens in the universe.

What about the "obtuse person, dumb, lazy, and stupid." Isn't that attacking and judging a person?

Yes, but it isn't an ad hominem attack because it is not in lieu of making an argument.

Quote to me the time i said that they put "In God We Trust" 100 years before it was? Tell me that and then i will ammend my statement.

This is what you said when I said that the majority of the founding fathers were not Christian:

Then why was "In God we Trust" on the coins? And why are the Ten Commandments up everywhere?

If not implying that this was put on money by the founding fathers because they were Christian, what was it implying?


message 25: by [deleted user] (new)

But did i ACTUALLY SAY that they were created 100 years before? No.....you're reading into it again.


message 26: by [deleted user] (new)

Girl4beluga wrote: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

"What about the "obtuse person, dumb, lazy, and stupid." Isn't that attacking and judging a person?"

Are you talking about the new rules?"


I guess......the "do not judge other ppl"


message 27: by [deleted user] (last edited Oct 31, 2010 04:44PM) (new)

Oh.....then i guess i don't know them


message 28: by [deleted user] (new)

Nothing, just hanging out at home lol


message 29: by Nathan (last edited Oct 31, 2010 05:13PM) (new)

Nathan But did i ACTUALLY SAY that they were created 100 years before? No.....you're reading into it again.

No, I wasn't and you are evading because you don't want to look like a liar and a fool. If you didn't mean that, then what did you mean? Why are you avoiding the question?


*Mrs. Brightside* Lol. He can possibly pass the candy out.


*Mrs. Brightside* I know-me too XD


message 32: by Nathan (new)

Nathan Nathan do you hide in bushes and scare little kids on Halloween?

Only if they are dressed as angels.


*Mrs. Brightside* Haha. (I snorted..and laughed a little.)


message 34: by [deleted user] (new)

Nathan wrote: "But did i ACTUALLY SAY that they were created 100 years before? No.....you're reading into it again.

No, I wasn't and you are evading because you don't want to look like a liar and a fool. If y..."


Obviously that the it shows a religious impact on our country....have i not told that to you enough?


message 35: by Nathan (new)

Nathan Obviously that the it shows a religious impact on our country....have i not told that to you enough?

You are such a fake. That comment wouldn't even follow from the post I made that you were responding to. I doubt I am the only one who knows you have no integrity when it comes to debating now. You are attempting to misrepresent what you said before. That is disgusting. The least you could do is simply admit your mistake and move on instead of trying to cover it up.


message 36: by ♥ Rachel♥ (new)

♥ Rachel♥   (i_got_a_jar_of_dirt) | 965 comments Nathan, Halloween means Holy Evening...how do you feel about handing out candy now? xD


message 37: by Nathan (last edited Nov 01, 2010 10:08AM) (new)

Nathan Nathan, Halloween means Holy Evening...how do you feel about handing out candy now? xD

About the same as celebrating Christmas. They are essentially secular holidays in our culture.


message 38: by ♥ Rachel♥ (new)

♥ Rachel♥   (i_got_a_jar_of_dirt) | 965 comments Nathan wrote: "Nathan, Halloween means Holy Evening...how do you feel about handing out candy now? xD

About the same as celebrating Christmas. They are essentially secular holidays in our culture."


Christmas is secular? o.o
But, yeah, Halloween is :P


message 39: by Cody (new)

Cody (rolinor) Girl4beluga wrote: "Really? I thought it was Hallows Evening.....something about purgatory and over-riding pagan rituals..blah..blah...blah"

I just watched a show on the history of Halloween apparently trick or treating started when kids would go around and ask for soul cakes, however many soul cakes they got would be the amount of prayers that they would give to souls in purgatory. When a soul in purgatory got enough prayers they would be released to heaven.

And Halloween was a pagan holiday at first but when the catholic church moved in they changed it instead of just getting rid of it.


message 40: by Cody (new)

Cody (rolinor) oh that would be cool but I never got to see all the ancient aliens just a few... but I do love the history channel.


message 41: by Cody (new)

Cody (rolinor) Girl4beluga wrote: "lol what do you think about it?"

It seems really interesting and may just explain some things we have in the world, such as the pyramids.

And those shows are great.


message 42: by Nathan (new)

Nathan Yes, I celebrate Christmas. And, yes, I view it as a secular holiday. Christmas trees, presents, Santa....those are all secular things. What do they have to do with religion?


message 43: by Cody (new)

Cody (rolinor) Girl4beluga wrote: "Yeah..I find it interesting on how the explain biblical stories..like Noah's Ark being a gene bank."

I can't remember that part lol but the pyramids how those may have been made by aliens for power sources (I think)


message 44: by Cody (new)

Cody (rolinor) No I don't think I have ever heard of it actually.


message 45: by Cody (new)

Cody (rolinor) No I don't have Netflix sorry.


message 46: by Dibily Do (last edited Nov 01, 2010 05:01PM) (new)

Dibily Do you have not heard of Stargate!

I am watching Stargate Atlantis, and it is kind of like Star Trek, but more science and explanations. And it has action and everything


message 47: by Cody (new)

Cody (rolinor) oh that sounds cool... hmm oddly enough the only Star Treck I have ever seen was the newest one.


message 48: by Cody (new)

Cody (rolinor) Girl4beluga wrote: "Do you have Sci-Fi?"

as in the Sci-Fi channel I think but I'm not sure.


message 49: by Dibily Do (new)

Dibily Do Girl4beluga wrote: "N.S.A (Search for the truth) wrote: "you have not heard of Stargate!

I am watching Stargate Atlantis, and it is kind of like Star Trek, but more science and explanations. And it has action and eve..."


I wonder why

I never seen Universe yet


message 50: by ♥ Rachel♥ (new)

♥ Rachel♥   (i_got_a_jar_of_dirt) | 965 comments Nathan wrote: "Yes, I celebrate Christmas. And, yes, I view it as a secular holiday. Christmas trees, presents, Santa....those are all secular things. What do they have to do with religion?"

Santa = St. Nicholas.
And, the fact that it's the birth of Christ, and that's a prominent theme of the holiday...I mean, I have carols about Jesus' birth associated with winter break, and I live in a Jewish family....


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