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message 1: by Keara (new)

Keara (kearachristine) I'll wait to state my opinion until afterwards... otherwise everybody will just attack me...


message 2: by Ross (new)

Ross Bauer (nightlightknight) why is yours a particularly controversial view?:)

I think that it should be allowed, I mean some people can;'t help how they feel, and rather than persecute and lock them up, in the spirit of libralism they should be allowed to practice their preference. However it should be taken into consideration that it is a minority view, and should not be forced upon others.


message 3: by Keara (new)

Keara (kearachristine) 'Cause, as mentioned in the intro topic, I'm Mormon. Soooo... That's a big part of why I'm on the side that I'm no... And people hate me for it.


message 4: by Ross (new)

Ross Bauer (nightlightknight) well I don't think people should hate you for having an opinion:)


message 5: by Keara (new)

Keara (kearachristine) :"> Aw, shucks. Thanks a ton - I wish everybody thought that...


message 6: by Danielle (new)

Danielle (Smiley1881) I say let them get married their not hurting anybody. Lets worry about something else like criminals.


message 7: by [deleted user] (new)

I agree. I don’t think we have the right to say who should be allowed to get married and who shouldn’t. I wouldn’t even care if they wanted to get married in a church.


message 8: by Ross (new)

Ross Bauer (nightlightknight) Indeed allowing them to get married should be a private decision not something that has to dance to the wind of public opinion. If it makes two people happy, and it's something private between them, yes there will be reservations but it's not gonna harm an open minded outlook.


TinCanKreations (TCCreationsKable) | 21 comments MYHAPPYMONSTER wrote: "'Cause, as mentioned in the intro topic, I'm Mormon. Soooo... That's a big part of why I'm on the side that I'm no... And people hate me for it."

MORMON! AH! Nah I kid, I live in a mormon state, Im used to mormons


message 10: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) I am for Gay-marrige. They're just like everyone else, they're just in love with someone of their own gender. Bisexual, gay or straight; a person is a person, and should be treated as one.


message 11: by Nathan (new)

Nathan If anyone wants to say that they are against gay marriage and that it should be illegal, I ask them to do one thing; state a legitimate reason for why it should not be legal.


message 12: by [deleted user] (new)

I agree. It shouldn't be illegal or even frowned upon. People should be free to love and marry who they want. It isn't our place to say who someone can marry.


message 13: by Katie (new)

Katie (lapiadramtica) | 17 comments I agree. People don't choose to like boys over girls or girls over boys, They're just born that way. We should respect how they're born


message 14: by Keara (new)

Keara (kearachristine) Eh, I disagree. God says Adam and Eve, so we follow that. The Mormons also have the Word of Wisdom, where it says no tobacco, drinking, drugs, etc. I kind of compare it to drinking, whereas it should be illegal, but people will go against it anyways. And yeah, it's a choice.


message 15: by Nathan (new)

Nathan And yeah, it's a choice.

It's a choice, really? So when did you choose to be straight? And I assume that since you chose to be straight you could also choose to be gay, right? You could just say, "Hmmm...I think I am going to start being attracted to my same sex now." Is that correct?

Also, your religion is irrelevant. This country is not a theocracy. So how does your religion have any bearing on what should and should not be legal?


message 16: by Keara (new)

Keara (kearachristine) Yes, it's a choice. Not a choice to be attracted, but a choice to give in to it. I know a few Gay Mormons who are attracted to the same sex, but they don't give in to it and they can still attend church.

How is my religion irrelevant? We aren't trying to tell people what to do, just standing up for what we believe in, which is what Gays do too. They don't "threaten the sanctity of marriage" or whatever the crap that's about, but they're sinners. Love the sinner, hate the sin.


message 17: by Nathan (new)

Nathan Yes, it's a choice. Not a choice to be attracted, but a choice to give in to it. I know a few Gay Mormons who are attracted to the same sex, but they don't give in to it and they can still attend church.

So you believe God made them gay, but didn't want them to act on their homosexual feelings? And, of course, this is despite the fact that he gave them those sexual feelings. Please explain this.

How is my religion irrelevant?

Because you said gay marriage should be illegal and you based that on your religion. I pointed out that your religion has nothing to do with what should and should not be legal. You have heard of separation of church and state, right? You must at least be able to understand this concept even if you can't understand the ridiculousness of your other statements.

We aren't trying to tell people what to do, just standing up for what we believe in

Except that you said it should be illegal, so you are trying to tell them what do. You are also trying to tell them what to do when you call them sinners for engaging in activities that you claim God made them interested in.

Love the sinner, hate the sin.

This is a politically correct way of saying it is okay to be a bigot.


message 18: by Keara (new)

Keara (kearachristine) Please, PLEASE do not insult me or call my views on life ridiculous. You see the title of the group? OPINIONS. Yes.

And God didn't give them the feelings - Satan did. They agreed to trials before they came to earth and that they would try as hard as possible to resist temptations.

My religion teaches all the truths - we don't exactly separate church and state wholly.

GOD. DID NOT. MAKE THEM INTERESTED. We aren't telling them what to do - we're trying to help them see the difference between right and wrong.

I'm not a bigot. I listen to others' opinions before I judge. And how does that relate to separating the person from their sins?


message 19: by Kylee (new)

Kylee (kyleerae23) I completely and totally agree with gay marriage with all my heart :)


message 20: by Nathan (new)

Nathan And God didn't give them the feelings - Satan did. They agreed to trials before they came to earth and that they would try as hard as possible to resist temptations.

Idiotic religious beliefs or not, you saying that their feelings are satanic is disgusting and it makes you a disgusting human.

My religion teaches all the truths - we don't exactly separate church and state wholly.

Your religion teaches you nonsense, not truth. Pretending that it is truth is insulting to people who use their brains. So where are these gold plates with the truth on them again? Oh yeah, they "went into Heaven where no one can read them." Yeah, that is useful.

We aren't telling them what to do - we're trying to help them see the difference between right and wrong.

And what makes homosexuality wrong? Because it says so in the Bible? It also says that eating shellfish is wrong and wearing clothing composed of two different types of fabric is too. So I guess you better start stoning people to death who wear cotton/poly blends and go to Red Lobster.

I'm not a bigot. I listen to others' opinions before I judge. And how does that relate to separating the person from their sins?

You are a bigot. You dislike those who are simply being who they are. That is being a bigot, bigot.


message 21: by Lauren (new)

Lauren I have no issue with gay marrige. And i dont see why anyone would because there is no logical reason to explain why its wrong realy. And even if your religion does go against it...it still doesnt exactly give you the reason why it is wrong, or if it does its stupid tbh. (do not be offended by the religon thing its just what i think)


message 22: by Keara (new)

Keara (kearachristine) Nathan wrote: "And God didn't give them the feelings - Satan did. They agreed to trials before they came to earth and that they would try as hard as possible to resist temptations.

Idiotic religious beliefs or..."


Seriously, stop. Respect me, please.

And I'm not saying their feelings are Satanic. >_< QUIT. TWISTING. MY WORDS.

And I don't dislike them. I love all people, even if they make the wrong choices.

And no, NOT because it "says so in the Bible". It's my belief, and I'm sticking to them.

And YOU are the hypocritical bigot. You're not listening to anything I'm saying and you keep insulting me over and over again, even when I politely request that you stop.


message 23: by Nathan (new)

Nathan Seriously, stop. Respect me, please.

I respect that which deserves respect. I respect you, but I do not respect your beliefs.

And I'm not saying their feelings are Satanic. >_< QUIT. TWISTING. MY WORDS.

I didn't twist them. You said their feelings were caused by Satan. The definition of Satanic is "of or relating to Satan." You said that, not me.

And I don't dislike them. I love all people, even if they make the wrong choices.

You already said that being gay is not a choice. You have yet to tell me why acting on being gay is wrong. Go ahead, I am waiting.

And no, NOT because it "says so in the Bible". It's my belief, and I'm sticking to them.

Then why? You haven't answered why yet. "I think it because I think it." Wow, great argument there genius.

And YOU are the hypocritical bigot. You're not listening to anything I'm saying and you keep insulting me over and over again, even when I politely request that you stop.

Bigot - a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

I am not intolerant of differing beliefs and opinions. What I do require, however, is reasoning behind those beliefs. I can give reasons for all of my beliefs. You have yet to give any for your beliefs. I am not listening to what you have to say? Really? You haven't said anything. Answer the question of why homosexuality is wrong. You say it isn't because it says so in the Bible. Then why? Answer it! If homosexuality is truly wrong you ought to be able to answer the question rather easily, yet you continue to dodge it.


message 24: by Kylee (new)

Kylee (kyleerae23) Ok Nathan, you need to respect people's opinions about certain things. Just because you don't agree with their opinions on things doesn't mean you can beat on them and their religion.

I don't really agree with the idea that being homosexual is a sin or wrong or something that can be helped, but I'm not being rude about it. And you don't see MYHAPPYMONSTER beating on me.


message 25: by Kylee (new)

Kylee (kyleerae23) Anyways, I don't think it's fair to judge people by their sexuality... in my mind it's like being racist and judging someone by the color of their skin. I think it's being narrow-minded.

HOWEVER, I completely respect the fact if you disagree because of your religion, and I'm simply giving my opinion.


message 26: by Keara (new)

Keara (kearachristine) Nathan wrote: "Seriously, stop. Respect me, please.

I respect that which deserves respect. I respect you, but I do not respect your beliefs.

And I'm not saying their feelings are Satanic. >_

I didn't tw..."


I AM FIFTEEN, LEAVE ME ALONE.

I am my beliefs. By disrespecting my beliefs, you're disrespecting me. Let's agree to disagree. This isn't a debate, it's just us stating opinions. And my religion is really hard to understand - I don't even know half of it. You're asking me questions that are impossible for me to understand. You're obviously not going to change, and I'm not either.

And thank you Rowan. :)

Now you guys can see why I save it for the end... -_-


message 27: by Kylee (new)

Kylee (kyleerae23) You're very welcome. If someone is going to state their opinion, and I am interested to hear all of them, they should do it in a civil and polite way.

What, MYHAPPYMONSTER, if you don't mind me asking, is it exactly that you are against when it comes to homosexuality? Like the fact that they aren't strong enough to change? Or that it grosses you out? Or something in the bible?


message 28: by Keara (new)

Keara (kearachristine) The first one. 'Cept they ARE strong enough to change - everybody is. It doesn't gross me out - I kind of admire them for being brave enough to do that... I don't think I could be that public about something as controversial as LGBT. No, the bible... Just... I really don't think most of the bible should be applied in everyday life. At all. Ever.


message 29: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) Okay first of: I WILL NOT HAVE PEOPLE INSULTING OTHERS IN THIS GROUP! Is that understood Nathan?

However, I admit I'd like to know wxactly why you, MYHAPPYMONSTER, think that gayness should be illegal. 'Cause I couldn't disagree more. I don't think that it's gross to be gay, I think it's awesome. That someone can be that strong in what they want, and act thereafter; that's admireable.
Also, you say satan agev them their gayness. I don't believe in Satan. I do respect that you do though, and your opinions. You're intitled to think what you want, and have your own opinion.
I would just like to know why you have it? IS it because of your religion? Or is it not?


message 30: by Keara (new)

Keara (kearachristine) Mostly, but I've spent a lot of time thinking before I completely disagree with it. Same on abortion and other things like that. I've listened to many, many "Nathan"s before finally deciding that I'm not going to be on that side of the argument.

Not to mention it goes against the commandments - come to earth, get married in the temple, have kids.

And I never said it was gross to be gay. I think that's a stupid reason to be against gays.


message 31: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) I never did say that you said that. I said that I do not think it's gross.

As for the ten commandments; What religion do you belong to?


message 32: by Keara (new)

Keara (kearachristine) Mormons, but we have more commandments on top of that. You've got your basic ten, but then the prophets get revelations and it becomes the word of God (= commandment).


message 33: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) Oh okay. But, isn't your opinion based on your relegion then? - Not that this is bad, but you mentioned earlier that it wasn't based on your beliefs.


message 34: by Nathan (new)

Nathan I don't really agree with the idea that being homosexual is a sin or wrong or something that can be helped, but I'm not being rude about it. And you don't see MYHAPPYMONSTER beating on me.

Asking someone to support their opinion is not rude.


message 35: by Nathan (last edited Oct 19, 2010 05:01AM) (new)

Nathan I am my beliefs. By disrespecting my beliefs, you're disrespecting me. Let's agree to disagree. This isn't a debate, it's just us stating opinions. And my religion is really hard to understand - I don't even know half of it. You're asking me questions that are impossible for me to understand. You're obviously not going to change, and I'm not either.

If you can't state one reason why homosexuality is wrong, then perhaps you shouldn't say it is wrong.


message 36: by Nathan (new)

Nathan Okay first of: I WILL NOT HAVE PEOPLE INSULTING OTHERS IN THIS GROUP! Is that understood Nathan?

Ooooooooooo...... You gonna kick me out? Real scared.


message 37: by Nathan (new)

Nathan Mostly, but I've spent a lot of time thinking before I completely disagree with it. Same on abortion and other things like that. I've listened to many, many "Nathan"s before finally deciding that I'm not going to be on that side of the argument.

Obviously you haven't spent a lot of time thinking since you can't even express why you think homosexuality is wrong. You just took a bigotted lesson from your parents and held it as true.


message 38: by Nathan (new)

Nathan Not to mention it goes against the commandments - come to earth, get married in the temple, have kids.

At least now we are getting to the truth. You think it is wrong because of the Book of Mormon. What a liar you are. You just didn't want to admit that it was for religious reasons only. So I will go back to my original question; what the heck do your religious beliefs have to do with what should and should not be legal?


message 39: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) Nathan wrote: "Okay first of: I WILL NOT HAVE PEOPLE INSULTING OTHERS IN THIS GROUP! Is that understood Nathan?

Ooooooooooo...... You gonna kick me out? Real scared."


Yes, I am. If you don't behave. I will not have you insulting members of this group. You want to piss people off and pick at them, make your own group. This is a warning. If you keep dissing, I will kick you out. Understood?


message 40: by Nathan (new)

Nathan You want to piss people off and pick at them, make your own group.

That is just what you and other members don't get. I haven't picked on anyone. I have asked people to support their opinions, that is all. How can you not understand that an opinion that is not supported with reasoning is useless? MYHAPPYMONSTER thinks it is okay to be a bigot. I am simply asking why she thinks it is okay. She will not answer. Opinions without reasoning are pointless.


message 41: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) So, calling someone a bigot is nice? And telling someone you don't respect them is even nicer? Appearently I have a lot to learn about nice and not nice.


Obviously you haven't spent a lot of time thinking since you can't even express why you think homosexuality is wrong. You just took a bigotted lesson from your parents and held it as true.


Idiotic religious beliefs or not, you saying that their feelings are satanic is disgusting and it makes you a disgusting human.


- Calling someone a disguting human due to their religious beliefs and opinions? Yeah, real nice. You've insulted her and her religion various times, AND I WILL NOT HAVE IT.

It's allright to debate and discuss, but insulting is not tolerated.


message 42: by Nathan (last edited Oct 19, 2010 12:14PM) (new)

Nathan So, calling someone a bigot is nice? And telling someone you don't respect them is even nicer? Appearently I have a lot to learn about nice and not nice.

Really? I said I don't respect someone? Please point out where I said that. Oh wait... I didn't. Calling a bigot a bigot is accurate. It has nothing to do with nice or mean. In fact, I said the exact opposite. Nice that you were paying attention.

Calling someone a disguting human due to their religious beliefs and opinions? Yeah, real nice. You've insulted her and her religion various times, AND I WILL NOT HAVE IT.

So you support her saying that homosexuals are inspired by Satan and, therefore, Satanic, but you have a problem with saying that a statement like that is disgusting? Interesting. So basically, how it works is I can say something awful as long as I say my religion tells me it is true, but I can't say something apt if logic and reason tells me so. She has classified an entire group as Satanic while I have merely pointed out that it is an awful thing to say and that saying it makes her an awful person, but I am the bad guy. Hmmmmm..... Interesting group you have here.


message 43: by Emma (last edited Oct 19, 2010 01:07PM) (new)

Emma (zeeberg) I respect that which deserves respect. I respect you, but I do not respect your beliefs.

I'd very much appreciate it, if you stopped trying to piss me off. You think you're so damn smart? You're not.

And you're basically saying, that just 'cause someone else says something mean, it's allright to be mean too. Interesting view on life. True, she shouldn't call gay marriage satanic, but does that jusify you calling her a disgusting human? No, I think not.


message 44: by [deleted user] (last edited Oct 19, 2010 02:15PM) (new)

*Holds hands up in air tentatively*
*Looks around to make sure all weapons have been holstered*

Okay, I come in peace.

I think maybe...this discussion has gotten a little, um, heated. Since this *is* an opinion board, I expected to see very differing opinions, and that's what is supposed to make the group interesting. It’s *supposed* to be heated.

Nathan-I personally have no problem with you. Your statements *do* have logic behind them, and I agree with some of what you say.

I think, maybe the problem is with *how* you say it. Or, more accurately, how it *seems* you are saying it. And perhaps it's an internet thing, where people can take things you type in a completely different way than you meant for them to. That's the problem with the written word vs talking in person.

I've stayed out of this discussion for the most part because I like to avoid confrontation, but I think this discussion has gone overboard, and people are losing sight of the reason behind the board; to express opinions and share ideas. I think your ideas are interesting and valuable.

That having been said, I also think MYHAPPYMONSTER's views should be valued as well.

Yes, I understand you are simply searching for evidence to support their thoughts, rather than them simply saying, "I believe this because I just do". I understand wanting to have an intelligent discussion that involves logic and supporting facts. That's one of the reasons I was drawn to an opinions group.

On the other hand, this *is* a hot-button topic. This isn’t a topic that will lend friendly conversations. Topics like gay marriage, religion, politics, etc. have passionate believers and non-believers. I’m not saying either group is right or wrong; but the point of this board is to discuss our views. I think the points that have been brought up are very interesting, but have been overshadowed by the “bullying” aspect.

Again, Nathan, I honestly don’t think you are bullying anyone. But. If I was on the receiving end of some of your posts, I would probably whimper a bit. But that’s only because this is an internet discussion board (meaning…cold). I think, with a topic like gay marriage, we should expect some passionate, heated discussions. It wouldn’t be very interesting if everyone agreed on the same thing.

*Backs away slowly*

I’m done now. I don’t want this to get ugly, and I enjoy reading everyone’s views. I only hope we can all acknowledge the limits internet discussions have; like the fact that you can’t hear the inflections in someone’s voice to know they aren’t ‘yelling’ at you.

*Turns around and walks away*


message 45: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) Candace (Amare Infinitum) wrote: "*Holds hands up in air tentatively*
*Looks around to make sure all weapons have been holstered*

Okay, I come in peace.

I think maybe...this discussion has gotten a little, um, heated. Sin..."


The best thing I ever did for this group was making you a mod. Thank you.

Nathan: I'm sorry that I got pissed at you. Some of the things you wrote seemed kinda ironic and offensive to the person, not theit opinions.


message 46: by Nathan (last edited Oct 19, 2010 02:58PM) (new)

Nathan I'd very much appreciate it, if you stopped trying to piss me off. You think you're so damn smart? You're not

Except that I am "so damn smart." You, however, weren't smart enough to read what I wrote.

True, she shouldn't call gay marriage satanic, but does that jusify you calling her a disgusting human?

When someone is being disgusting, it is appropriate to call them disgusting. It is not appropriate to pretend they are not disgusting.

You seem upset. I can only imagine it is because you understand that I was correct when I pointed out your hypocrisy. You were being hypocritical. Fair enough, we all do it sometimes.

I should hope that my point that an opinion group without reasons would be a pretty pointless group. It would be dull and boring. An opinion group is a debate group. An opinion group without debate would be:

"Hey, gay marriage is wrong."

"Oh, I think it is okay."

"Oh, I don't."

"Oh, okay."

Not real interesting.

Some of the things you wrote seemed kinda ironic and offensive to the person, not theit opinions

Ironic isn't what you mean. Irony is the oposite of what you expect or when what is said is the opposite of what is meant.


message 47: by Nathan (new)

Nathan Candace,

Well said.


message 48: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) Nathan wrote: "I'd very much appreciate it, if you stopped trying to piss me off. You think you're so damn smart? You're not

Except that I am "so damn smart." You, however, weren't smart enough to read what I..."


Yeah whatever. Stop acting like you know me. Or like you know more than me. 'Cause you don't. And now, can we go back to actually discussing gay marrige please?


message 49: by Nathan (new)

Nathan Yeah whatever. Stop acting like you know me. Or like you know more than me. 'Cause you don't. And now, can we go back to actually discussing gay marrige please?

So wait, it is okay for you to pretend you know me by saying that I am not "damn smart" and that I don't know more than you, but it is not okay for me to "pretend I know you" by making similar statements? Hypocrisy all over again. You are a fan of that, I see.


message 50: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) You just don't wanna drop this do you?


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