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message 1: by [deleted user] (new)

I myself am a vegetarian and I really see nothing wrong with it but since this is one of my favorite debates and everyone has their own opinion...what do you think?


message 2: by Keara (new)

Keara (kearachristine) I'm against it, since it's kind of a commandment... "Eat meat sparingly." Yeah, so I see it as a sin.


message 3: by Ross (new)

Ross Bauer (nightlightknight) It's funny coz if I were living on my own I wouldn't mind being a vegetarian but since I'm living with family it 's something of a bother to have a seperate meal:)


message 4: by Keara (new)

Keara (kearachristine) Yeah, but WHY would you be a vegetarian?


message 5: by [deleted user] (new)

“I’m not a vegetarian because I love animals, I’m a vegetarian because I hate plants.”—A. Whitney Brown

I just thought that was a funny, possibly relevant quote. I’m not a vegetarian, by the way, but I totally respect those who are.


message 6: by Ross (new)

Ross Bauer (nightlightknight) Well probably because apart from chicken and sometimes beef, I love my veg and non-meat dairy products. I couldn't be a Vegan, I know that, I'm too attached to my cheese, eggs and yoghurt:)


message 7: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) Well, I totally respect people who're vegetarians. I just couldn't do it. I like my meat too much. I actually don't care what people eat, as long as they don't eat humans. They can have whatever diet they want, it has nothing to do with who they are. Also, if everyone became vegies, it'd save the planet. Just sayin'.

The ONLY thing I don't like about it, is that some vegetraians keep saying that everyone else should become vegetarians. I'm like; Dude, it's cool that you are one, but DO NOT force it on me, 'kay?
That pisses me off. But that goes for everyone who constantly tries to convince others that their way of living is better than the one the people are living. E.g. Religion, loved ones, countries, etc.
Other than that, I think vegetarians are cool.


message 8: by [deleted user] (new)

MYHAPPYMONSTER wrote: "Yeah, but WHY would you be a vegetarian?"

I became one because of the living conditions of the animals and the cruelty put in to getting you a steak.


message 9: by [deleted user] (new)

Emma (Soul of sunshine) wrote: "Well, I totally respect people who're vegetarians. I just couldn't do it. I like my meat too much. I actually don't care what people eat, as long as they don't eat humans. They can have whatever di..."

I don't force it on people, i just tell them how i feel and if they don't agree, *shrugs* Oh well.


message 10: by [deleted user] (new)

Woolfie wrote: "Well probably because apart from chicken and sometimes beef, I love my veg and non-meat dairy products. I couldn't be a Vegan, I know that, I'm too attached to my cheese, eggs and yoghurt:)"

I don't think i could be vegan either.....and we get our eggs from our own chickens so there's really no point...


message 11: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) *♥Nemonica♥* §♦Epic cat lover!♦§ wrote: "Emma (Soul of sunshine) wrote: "Well, I totally respect people who're vegetarians. I just couldn't do it. I like my meat too much. I actually don't care what people eat, as long as they don't eat h..."

Nah it's all right. I know it's not every vege, but some do, and that pisses me off beyond words.


message 12: by Anaiz (new)

Anaiz (nizmart) I'm a vegetarian as well and I did it for many reasons. I agree that people who try to force their views on others are not only rude but unwelcome. I try not to be one of those people so I only state my reasons when asked, and in doing so I have been mocked and ridiculed by a few people, and accepted by most. Let's just live and let live :)


message 13: by Katie (new)

Katie (lapiadramtica) | 17 comments I was a vegan but i had to quit because i wasn't being healthy. I respect Veg. they choose what they want to eat and they have their reasons. I wish i could be a veg. but i'm not ready to make the jump


message 14: by Keara (new)

Keara (kearachristine) *♥Nemonica♥* §♦Epic cat lover!♦§ wrote: "MYHAPPYMONSTER wrote: "Yeah, but WHY would you be a vegetarian?"

I became one because of the living conditions of the animals and the cruelty put in to getting you a steak."


Yes, very true. I live in a very small town, so most of our meat is from local farms.


message 15: by Nathan (new)

Nathan I became one because of the living conditions of the animals and the cruelty put in to getting you a steak

That is a great point. That is one of the reasons I hunt. Hunting is a great way to obtain meat and it does so in a way that is respectful to the animal (provided the hunter is a good hunter).


message 16: by Katie (new)

Katie (lapiadramtica) | 17 comments I disagree. I don't think that hunting is any better than keeping the animals in farms. In someways its worse. You don't always kill animals that are older and have lived a good long life. Some farms are terrible living conditions but hunting isn't right


message 17: by Lauren (new)

Lauren I respect vegetarians, but i'm not one. It doesnt bother me what people eat it's your choice :)


message 18: by Nathan (last edited Oct 18, 2010 07:54PM) (new)

Nathan I disagree. I don't think that hunting is any better than keeping the animals in farms.

Then you have never been to a factory farm. Hunting is the most humane way to kill an animal.

In someways its worse.

Name one way it is worse.

Some farms are terrible living conditions but hunting isn't right

It what was isn't it right? Instead of making an assertion, why don't you back it up with reasoning?

To say that hunting isn't right is to not understand anything about hunting. Each habitat has a carrying capacity. Carrying capacity is how many animals a given area can support with its supply of food, water and shelter. All animals will attempt to exceed this carrying capacity through breeding. Since an area can only support a certain number of animals, animals die of disease and starvation. Hunters reduce the numbers of animals that die of disease and starvation. In this way they stop animals from dying in more horrific and painful ways. I would rather be shot by a bullet than starve to death.


message 19: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) I wouldn't say that hunting is worse. It's such a naatural part of the world. Dog hunt cats, cats hunt mice and mice rade our kitchens. Of course, the poor animal often dies in fear, but still hunting isn't something I have anything against. As long as you don't hunt threatened animal species.

I'd like to add, that not all farmeries treat the animals bad. You decide wheter or not you want to eat meat where the animal has been treated like hell, or meat where the animals have been treated well their whole life, better than they would have been treated in nature.

However, there are places where animals are treated in inhuman ways, slaughtered while still alive. I avoid meat like that, as I am VERY much against treating animals like things, instead of living organisms.


message 20: by Nathan (new)

Nathan You decide wheter or not you want to eat meat where the animal has been treated like hell, or meat where the animals have been treated well their whole life, better than they would have been treated in nature.

And how does one make that determination?


message 21: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) Why, one looks at the package. Is it freelance? Is it ecological? Stuff like that.


message 22: by Nathan (new)

Nathan Why, one looks at the package. Is it freelance? Is it ecological? Stuff like that.

Except that the packages are misleading. Qualifying a product as "organic" for instance doesn't mean that the animal was well treated. Freelance? Ecological? I don't think you are using the right terminology here.


message 23: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) Maybe. I don't know how they do stuff in your country. But where I am, that's how you see it. Generally, most animals are treated fairly well here.


message 24: by Nathan (new)

Nathan What country is that? I live in the US and there is no real way to tell where your food is coming from or how the animals were treated.


message 25: by Emma (new)

Emma (zeeberg) Well, I live in Denmark, and it's pretty easy to tell what food was treated allright, and what was not.


message 26: by [deleted user] (new)

Lucky you.


message 27: by Kylee (new)

Kylee (kyleerae23) I am kinda a vegetarian... I don't eat anything that comes from cows or pigs, and only eat stuff from chicken or other birds when I have to. And I still eat seafood. But for me, it's not really becaue of animal cruelty, although that is a big deal for me. I mainly just don't like the taste.


message 28: by Kylee (new)

Kylee (kyleerae23) MYHAPPYMONSTER wrote: "I'm against it, since it's kind of a commandment... "Eat meat sparingly." Yeah, so I see it as a sin."

Really? I had no idea that not eating meat could be a sin... that seems kinda harsh. What if you don't like how it tastes? Do you force yourself to eat it?


message 29: by [deleted user] (new)

Yeah, I was going to say something about that, but I wanted to get my thoughts coherent before speaking (or typing, as the case may be).

I don't believe eating meat should be considered a sin, but I'm an atheist, so I guess I shouldn't say much about sins in general. I will say that it doesn't seem like such a bad thing to be a vegetarian. In fact, it's pretty healthy in many ways.

I'm a carnivore, myself, but I don't think abstaining from meat is wrong.


message 30: by [deleted user] (new)

I have a friend that's a carnivore...


message 31: by Gatorman (last edited Oct 21, 2010 01:24PM) (new)

Gatorman Nathan wrote: "I disagree. I don't think that hunting is any better than keeping the animals in farms.

Then you have never been to a factory farm. Hunting is the most humane way to kill an animal.

In somew..."


Are you only going out and killing animals that are already in the obvious process of starving to death? If not, then how do you get to make the determination that the particular animal you kill will otherwise starve to death? Perhaps that animal would have survived several more years of a healthy, worthwhile (to the animal) life but for your act of killing it. How do you get to decide when the animal should die? I've heard the "carrying capacity" argument before, but have you ever asked the animal whether it would rather die by your gunshot than another means? How often have you taken a head count of the animals in a given habitat to determine when it is full to capacity before going hunting? Please don't imply you are doing the animals a favor by killing them. Something tells me they would probably disagree with that assessment.

I do agree that many animal farms are disgusting and mistreat the animals. But, to me, that does not justify saying hunting is better.


message 32: by Nathan (last edited Oct 21, 2010 07:16PM) (new)

Nathan Are you only going out and killing animals that are already in the obvious process of starving to death? If not, then how do you get to make the determination that the particular animal you kill will otherwise starve to death?

Reducing the population frees up food for other members of the species thereby reducing the likelihood that they will starve to death.

How do you get to decide when the animal should die?

With my shotgun.

This cracks me up. If I didn't hunt, I would be choosing to send a deer to death by way of disease, starvation, or automobile. Either way, I would be making a choice increasing the likelihood that it will die.

I've heard the "carrying capacity" argument before, but have you ever asked the animal whether it would rather die by your gunshot than another means?

Yup, he said "Gunshot please."

What an idiotic question to ask. Would you rather die by gunshot or starvation? Before you answer, I want you to go two days without eating anything.

How often have you taken a head count of the animals in a given habitat to determine when it is full to capacity before going hunting?

You can't really be so obtuse. I don't think it is possible. Animals exceed the carrying capacity every single year. Every single year.

Please don't imply you are doing the animals a favor by killing them

Please don't pretend to know what you are talking about when you haven't done any research and have no clue what you are talking about. I am sure that for you that is all the time, so perhaps you may want to stop posting. You obviously have no clue what you are talking about. Would you rather animals die of disease and starvation so that their meat is useless and they died for nothing? Or would you rather people get to use the meat to sustain their lives?

I do agree that many animal farms are disgusting and mistreat the animals. But, to me, that does not justify saying hunting is better.

Only because you aren't using your brain to think. A hunted animal lives a good life and then is shot and killed. A factory farmed animal lives a horrible life and then is killed. The former is objectively better than the latter.


message 33: by [deleted user] (new)

"With my shotgun."


I'm sorry...that's just funny :P.


message 34: by Gatorman (last edited Oct 21, 2010 04:56PM) (new)

Gatorman Candace (Amare Infinitum) wrote: ""With my shotgun."


I'm sorry...that's just funny :P."


No, Candace, it's really not. And the fact that as moderator you seem to be ok with the way people act on these threads is even less funny. These aren't discussions, they're just insults.


message 35: by Gatorman (new)

Gatorman Nathan wrote: "Are you only going out and killing animals that are already in the obvious process of starving to death? If not, then how do you get to make the determination that the particular animal you kill wi..."

Your arrogance is only exceeded by your ignorance.


message 36: by [deleted user] (new)

*Shrugs* I thought it was. I didn't meant it as a jab at you or anything; the answer just made me laugh. Humor is by definition subjective.


message 37: by Nathan (last edited Oct 21, 2010 05:12PM) (new)

Nathan Your arrogance is only exceeded by your ignorance.

Except that I know what I am talking about and you have yet to provide one example, argument, or suggestion that refutes what I have said. But, yup, you sure be smart. You want people to stop hunting when the FACT of the matter is that hunters help maintain an ecological balance for wildlife.

You want me to "ask" an animal how it would like to die, but somehow do not see that death by gunshot is preferable to death by starvation, disease or the wasting of meat as a resource.

Instead of actually responding to my points, you tried to place yourself above them by calling me ignorant. The truth is, you can't rebut them, so you attempt to pretend you won't for a different reason.


message 38: by [deleted user] (new)

Hey now Gatorman. I wasn't jabbing you. I was just remarking on something I thought was funny. I didn't mean it to relate to anything you had said. It was just a comment I thought was funny.

I'm not okay with the hostility on these threads. I've made several posts regarding this exact thing. I think you even commented on some of the peace-making posts I've made.

Yes, I'm a moderator. No, I don't condone picking on people or hostility. But that shouldn't mean I can't laugh at something that's funny.


message 39: by Gatorman (new)

Gatorman Candace (Amare Infinitum) wrote: "Hey now Gatorman. I wasn't jabbing you. I was just remarking on something I thought was funny. I didn't mean it to relate to anything you had said. It was just a comment I thought was funny.

I..."


I don't take the comments personally, Candace. I'm a lot tougher than that and have heard much worse. The problem is that out of all the comments made by Nathan in the post, you chose to comment on that one. This is either a group for discussions or it's not. What's going on here is not a discussion group. That's a shame, because there are interesting topics being posed here.


message 40: by Gatorman (new)

Gatorman Nathan wrote: "Your arrogance is only exceeded by your ignorance.

Except that I know what I am talking about and you have yet to provide one example, argument, or suggestion that refutes what I have said. But..."


Yeah, you got me, Nathan. You're just too bright for me. What was I thinking?


message 41: by [deleted user] (new)

I didn't think my comment would cause that many problems. I certainly didn't mean for it to.

I agree that we do have a problem with the group lately and the hostility.


message 42: by Nathan (last edited Oct 21, 2010 07:18PM) (new)

Nathan Yeah, you got me, Nathan. You're just too bright for me. What was I thinking?

Either make a rebuttal or don't. But don't pretend you are "just too smart" to make one. I made valid points. Why won't you make an actual argument? Oh right...

I brought up many points in post #32 and your reply was "You be ignorant." Yeah, I am the ignorant one. Last I checked, that isn't a valid response. It is a cop out for the non-thinking people of the world.


message 43: by Gatorman (new)

Gatorman Nathan wrote: "Yeah, you got me, Nathan. You're just too bright for me. What was I thinking?

Either make a rebuttal or don't. But don't pretend you are "just too smart" to make one. I made valid points. Why..."


See my last post on the Christianity thread. I won't waste my time repeating myself to you. See ya.


message 44: by Kylee (new)

Kylee (kyleerae23) Nathan, why do you have to be so hostile to everyone? I understand that you believe what you're saying is right, but can't you tell people your opinions in a more civil way? If people have the decency to listen to your opinions without beating on them, you should give them the same respect.


message 45: by Amina (new)

Amina  (journalistam) Thas the prob wid Nathan, he thinks he's rite abt evrything

I think there's nuthing rong wid being a Vegi, but eating meat isn't wrong either. it's actually ur choice wat u wanna eat or not... no-one shld dictate that. I don't eat sum stuff... no-one can make me

whereas people who think that eating meat is rong because wwe kill poor animals... well animals are here to help us, there isn't anything rong wid slaughtering them in a way that doesn't hurt them.


message 46: by [deleted user] (new)

I agree Rj Amina :). We shouldn't tell anyone what's right or wrong for them. If someone wants to be a vegetarian, I say, "Go for it." For me personally, I like steak and chicken too much.


message 47: by Amina (new)

Amina  (journalistam) same here. I love eating mostly evrything except lentils and sum vegi's. But I knw alot of ppl who dnt like meat, or dnt like chicken... or doen't have both for that matter. nuthin rong wiv it, I say


message 48: by [deleted user] (new)

Yep, nothing wrong at all :).


message 49: by Michael (last edited Oct 22, 2010 05:49AM) (new)

Michael Hi, I'm new to Goodreads, and to this group. This is my first message and I haven't figured out how to quote someone in a reply yet...

Emma (Soul of sunshine) wrote:
"Well, I totally respect people who're vegetarians. I just couldn't do it. I like my meat too much."

I've gone back and forth over the years with being vegetarian and I've never missed meat because there are so many meat analogs out there. Yeah, a veggie burger isn't the same as a hamburger, but it's close enough to get over the 'it's not meat' hump.

"I actually don't care what people eat, as long as they don't eat humans."

But zombies are people, too!


message 50: by Michael (new)

Michael Katie said:

"I disagree. I don't think that hunting is any better than keeping the animals in farms. In someways its worse. You don't always kill animals that are older and have lived a good long life. Some farms are terrible living conditions but hunting isn't right"

I'm not a hunter and I don't have a fondness for hunting, but I'm not sure I agree with this. Life isn't fair and living a good, long life isn't guaranteed to any animal on the planet. The conditions on factory farms are pretty brutal and I think it might be better to be an animal living free and being hunted for food as opposed to one kept in tortuous conditions until slaughter.


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