The Valley of Horses
discussion
Reviews say - these books are ice age pornography
Auel does a great job of giving details of every aspect of her main character's (Aela) life from how she aquires and uses what she needs to her thoughts to her emotions to her social skills. It seemed only natural when she included this aspect as well. Notice the word "aspect". This series is not about sex. The sex is added because it is a part of Aela's life...not the other way around.
Ecoutez-moi ma cherie: in such a long travel WITHOUT TV & Internet, what is there to do but to eat, sleep, and have sex. It is good, oui?!Knight
I read the entire series and loved it for being exactly what it was: an exceptionally well researched bit of entertainment. I'd put these books in the same category as those written by the author of Mary Renault...wonderful detail, fast paced story lines, interesting and well developed characters, and yes, sex!
I think the series would have been just as good without all the sex scenes - it seemed to me in reading it that Jean M. Auel ACTUALLY wanted to write a Mills & Boon, had a bit of an interest in prehistory, and so combined the too.I hate when authors include stuff that has no relevance or significance to the actual story. I admire books (and movies) where the only things that happen are directly involved in the story, and they avoid "fluff", which is just to fill pages and make the story look longer than it is.
Another problem is that a few things seem terribly unlikely - one girl taming a horse and a dog and a lion and inventing the spearthrower and flint, that it takes away from the seeming reality - apart from those things and the sex, it really really feels like you are in the time and place. It's a shame really, that she couldn;t polish it up as neatly as a more experienced author. She should have kept this story for when she was a better storyteller. She can't really rewrite it now.
Well I feel the sex has been bolted on. This would have been an interesting series without it, or rather if it was covered with much less detail - of course it probably wouldn't have sold as well...
The first two books are good and don't over do it as far as sex, but the rest do get bogged down in too much sex.
I became annoyed with the number of descriptions of having sex already somewhere in the middle of this book. I started skipping them - they are too repetitive. But at that point it didn't spoil my pleasure. I enjoyed the first three volumes tremendously, then the repetitiveness started getting on my nerves. The last book of the series, the Land of Painted Caves, is already too much of it - I think that about one third of the book was simply copied from the previous parts, and all what is new has also been repeated numerous times. What a shame to finish such an interesting series with such a mediocre final volume. It must have been an attempt to pocket some more cash, without any real conviction, any new ideas.
I loved the concept of these stories, and loved about 75% of the first one, 50% of the second one, 35% of the third one... You get the idea. The repetition killed me, and I think if the author had a good editor the editor would have gotten rid of all the repetition. The sex only bothered me in the context that this book seemed to be aimed at adolescent girls in many ways, and I wonder how many parent want quite that much focus on sex in books for their daughters? I didn't mind it, but also didn't think it added to the story. I do think that the "love story" and "sex sections" portrayed an overly stereotyped view of building relationships and one that assumed both parties were pretty darned dumb, which was extremely distracting. After the third in the series, I couldn't take it any more and bailed out...
"Reviews say - these books are ice age pornography"HOGWASH!
David wrote: ""Reviews say - these books are ice age pornography"HOGWASH!"
Agreed! I loved all of these books. I have only one of them, but that's because I don't have the money to buy them in hardback. Auel is a great writer, the sex is only another part of the story, it spices up the story and helps you to understand how much Ayla and Jondalar love each other, that they can come together in that way over and over despite the difficulties they face. They are never too tired to be together.
I agre - Hogwash! If you pick up any "chick-lit" book and there is always much more explicit sex which is probably part of their attraction. These books were written so beautifully - sex is part of life and part of any love story.
I read this book in the 80's when it first came out and must admit I was a little shocked by the amout of sex she included in the book, but i concluded it to be a sign of the times. Although I was dissapointed, the concept of the story was still interesting and I continue to read her books. When I get discussed with too much sex I simply skip over till it appears to be back on story.
I didn't read all of these. And one of the reasons was that I got pretty annoyed by all the sex scenes. It was just too much. Yeah of course they had a lot of sex, also because the both of them were extremely attractive... And I agree that sex had to be part of the story too. But enough is enough and at one point it just made me laugh really hard, especially after they peered at two mammoths having sex.. ;)
Given that a major point in the arc of the series was the realization that it was during the sex act that babies are created, not by spirit alone, and the cultural upheaval this knowledge would cause for the rest of history as a result, sex had to be a part of these books.That being said, sex scenes in the Earth's Children series were like every other aspect of the writing--overly repetitive and increasingly pointless as the series continued.
I'm guessing you really don't care for this series...lol
JerriFaye wrote: "I agree...lol"Knight wrote: "Ecoutez-moi ma cherie: in such a long travel WITHOUT TV & Internet, what is there to do but to eat, sleep, and have sex. It is good, oui?!
Knight"
Knight wrote: "Ecoutez-moi ma cherie: in such a long travel WITHOUT TV & Internet, what is there to do but to eat, sleep, and have sex. It is good, oui?!
Knight"
Renee wrote: "I disagree.
Why do 90% of the reviews listed on this series say there is too much pornography? It is the furthest thing from it. Do any of you understand that sex is natural? And EVEN MORE natural..."
Renee wrote: "I disagree.
Why do 90% of the reviews listed on this series say there is too much pornography? It is the furthest thing from it. Do any of you understand that sex is natural? And EVEN MORE natural..."
Monalesia wrote: "I read the entire series and loved it for being exactly what it was: an exceptionally well researched bit of entertainment. I'd put these books in the same category as those written by the author o..."It's a book... I believe it is well researched, but that doesn't mean she can't have a story line.. The only w that drove me nuts was the introductions...lol
Agree: 1) I loved this series 2)The books become repetitive. You can only be intrigued by so many introductions, and surprise fire lightings before it gets to be too much.Disagree: 1)The sex was not overdone, it was natural and described in detail that's all. What's interesting is how people think it's pornographic but still keep reading the books. 2) For those who think that some of it is "unlikely"...that's why it's called FICTION.
Michelle wrote: "Agree: 1) I loved this series 2)The books become repetitive. You can only be intrigued by so many introductions, and surprise fire lightings before it gets to be too much.Disagree: 1)The sex wa..."
Well said Michelle.
Jeanie wrote: "Given that a major point in the arc of the series was the realization that it was during the sex act that babies are created, not by spirit alone, and the cultural upheaval this knowledge would cau..."Well said. That's exactly what I was thinking as I followed this thread..almost. I was also thinking about Ayla's discovering that it's an act of love and pleasure, not just another expression of inferiority of women. It took her awhile to understand completely. Didn't she respond to that one guy thinking she was obliged (even though she had a good time)? But there did come a point in the books where it really didn't add to the story, didn't function to demonstrate differences in cultures or groups. After awhile it did seem redundant.
Gerald wrote: "Michelle wrote: "Agree: 1) I loved this series 2)The books become repetitive. You can only be intrigued by so many introductions, and surprise fire lightings before it gets to be too much.Disag..."
I agree with you both. Simply stated and accurate observation.
The introductions drove me nuts... However, anyone that can write a 600 + page book about a lion, a horse and a young that can't speak is one heck of an author. Jean Auel does not even use profanity in her books. I believe she protrayed her characters as true to that lifestyle as possible. I have read sexier scenes in books in most of my favorite, authors. I do not have the fore sight write a novel of any sort... I truly have a great respect for authors, even the one's I don't care for. I do write but Auel and the others novelists are way out of my league.
Anyone who thinks Jean Auel writes pornography obviously hasn't read much porn. It's been years since I've read Auel's books, but I remember the sex as being very sweet and appropriate for a character in that time and stage of her life.What I found annoying about Auel's writing was her continually repeating Ayla's history. It reminded me of a radio program: "If you're just now joining us, this is what we're talking about...." Half the words could have been cut out and still told a complete story.
Still, I have to take my hat off to Auel. In a pre-internet age, she did some amazing research for these books.
Sydney wrote: "Anyone who thinks Jean Auel writes pornography obviously hasn't read much porn. It's been years since I've read Auel's books, but I remember the sex as being very sweet and appropriate for a charac..."Ditto. My only complaint about the sex too. I got it. It was beautiful, meaningful and good, had different views and approaches taken to it in different cultures, due to those variances "betrayal" of each other was not intentional, and they discovered a desire to be monogomous. We know you have to repeat somewhat, but rinse first. Repetitive. Loved the books and could only aspire to do that research. Hell, I think I'm getting smarter watching Nat Geo, but her work!!?? Yikes!
I agree. They are pretty graphic. There is some valuable information in the series. I also like it makes you reflect on human history. I love the insights she has and how she and Jondalar bring so many new ideas to the different cultures.
Kristina wrote: "Sydney wrote: "Anyone who thinks Jean Auel writes pornography obviously hasn't read much porn. It's been years since I've read Auel's books, but I remember the sex as being very sweet and appropria..."I ditto your ditto
Why is describing sex and making love automatically pornography? What is with the puritanical attitude that sex is a sin or taboo to discuss? Human beings are sexual. We are the only species that has sex for pleasure, not just procreation. If we are ashamed of who we are, then we need to reevaluate why that is. I guess describing kissing could be categorized as pornography if you want to get extreme. Kissing is part of sex. Hello! Ayla is discovering her sexuality like any other human because it is an important part of who she is and becomes. To have been raped continuously, then to find some one who gives her love and pleasure is a wonderful thing that makes her happier and stronger. It isn't cheap or deviant. I think people who can't talk or read about sex between two adults that care for one another, is probably sorely missing out in their own sex lives.
I don't have a problem with sex scenes in books - if they are well written. The ones in this series are not well written and it really drags it down. The euphemisms for sexual organs are so ridiculous (love passage and so on) that it makes them all so cringey and laughable rather than sexy and enjoyable.
Renee wrote: "I disagree.Why do 90% of the reviews listed on this series say there is too much pornography? It is the furthest thing from it. Do any of you understand that sex is natural? And EVEN MORE natural ..."
Very well said Renee.
It's the Ice Age. What else was there to do? Go see a movie? Read a book? Not only are we discovering what life in the Ice Age was like, but also we're discovering a couple as they discover each other. I enjoyed the Ice Age porn.
I think someone must be a little hung up on Sex, how ridiculous, as Renee says it is natural and it was not like they had TVs and laptops to entertain them!!
Given this was my first romance book I ever read, I thought the same thing. But now that I have read more I realize that the sex really is a minor part of the book. The love scenes are quite tasteful as well in comparison to other novels. Given the background it was written against it made since, humans still had to spread and populate. Only one way to do that!
Gina wrote: "Why is describing sex and making love automatically pornography? What is with the puritanical attitude that sex is a sin or taboo to discuss? Human beings are sexual. We are the only species tha..."Well said! I love that Ayla finds out what love really is.
I've only read the first two books and won't read any more. Loved the first one and half loved the second. Everything with Ayla was great, everything with Jondalar was boring and irritating. I feel the same about the sex scenes. Ayla's were all interesting and relevant to the plot but everything with Jondalar (which was most of them tbh) excluding when he was with Ayla, were just a repetition of, "Omg Jondalar has such a big penis and all the girls want it. He's so good in bed, don't you want him?"
Orangesky wrote: "I've only read the first two books and won't read any more. Loved the first one and half loved the second. Everything with Ayla was great, everything with Jondalar was boring and irritating. I feel..."Haha I know! I felt sorry for Jondalar's other girl back at that one tribe. If I remember correctly she had his child? Why did we really need to see them to together?
I have read the first two. I will admit...I read them mostly because of the review likening them to caveman porn. The sex is not at all a front burner theme. I was acually antsy for her to get to the sex in Valley of the Horses...
Josie wrote: "Orangesky wrote: "I've only read the first two books and won't read any more. Loved the first one and half loved the second. Everything with Ayla was great, everything with Jondalar was boring and ..."Why did we have to see practicall all of his journey? Early on I kept thinking, 'this will lead to Ayla, right? He's going to get to her soon?' After a while I just gave up and then when he did meet her it felt really abrupt. I mean why did we have to see him making babies and living with another tribe for a year or so?
I loved the first book and enjoyed the second. By the time I finished the third book I was finished with this author. Absolutely too much titillation for this kind of book thank you very much. Too bad she could not stick to teaching us how our ancestors lived outside the boudoir.
Orangesky wrote: "Josie wrote: "Orangesky wrote: "I've only read the first two books and won't read any more. Loved the first one and half loved the second. Everything with Ayla was great, everything with Jondalar w..."Yea I don't why either. I didn't mind learning about his life too but none of it seemed to help us get to know his personality. I would have rather read more about him as a person than his escapades with other women.
Hey, folks, how many people would have bought a copy if it was just paleo folks making tools and hunting?? Sex is used to sell everything. Skip over the umpteenth episodes of Pleasures as soon as Jondalar gets that look in his eyes. I enjoyed seeing the author's extensive research brought to life in portraying how people lived in such harsh times. Altho, I must say that it does get wearing after a while, with her Prometheus-as-Ayla inventing everything from pyrite-spawned-fire to needles to domesticated animals.
I answered the question already but I overlooked the obvious reason why the answer is NO, the Valley of Horses is NOT mainly porn. The reason is that for probably over 90 percent of the book, Ayla is alone! There are no men to provide any sex to write or read about!!! Ayla is self-sufficient, learning how to hunt better, how to raise a pet pony and figure how useful this animal is, storing up food and herbs for the long winter ahead. To me this is in some ways the best book in the series. Just my personal opinion.
Laura wrote: "I answered the question already but I overlooked the obvious reason why the answer is NO, the Valley of Horses is NOT mainly porn. The reason is that for probably over 90 percent of the book, Ayla ..."For Ayla's part of the story she's alone until the last few chapters, you're right, but half of the story is with Jondalar. That's where all the sex comes in.
If these books are pornography, then please tell me what are Playgirl and Playboy?
Although these books were startlingly different in their day, which is when I read them, they weren't all about sex. As a keen amateur naturalist, they were also stuffed with historically and botanically accurate descriptions and facts, as well as a fantastically described historical landscape and stab at bringing together neanderthal and modern man. The sex was brilliantly described, if a bit too frequent. But don't let that detract from the years of research that went into the writing of what were at the time ground breaking, well received novels. I remember having to wait weeks for a copy of each at the library after their release because of their popularity.I lived on those Steppes and can still recall parts of that landscape conjured up by Jean Auel.
Ayla was my heroine, a medicine woman who was strong and a survivor, determined to beat the odds. BTW my mum, now 84, loved those books, and never once described them as porn. Sex, folks, is normal!
Chicklet wrote: " Auel does a great job of giving details of every aspect of her main character's (Aela) life from how she aquires and uses what she needs to her thoughts to her emotions to her social skills. It ..."I totally agree. The fact that the sexual side of life is part of the story and the reader may be a bit uncomfortable does not make this pornography.
The sex in the books was just part of life, as it should be. There was definitely no "overkill". Remember: for critics to keeps their jobs they have to find fault.
I think the way she described sex,child bearing, and the sexual rituals were well done. I agree with Marietje it was not overkill.
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Why do 90% of the reviews listed on this series say there is too much pornography? It is the furthest thing from it. Do any of you understand that sex is natural? And EVEN MORE natural and accepted in those times and cultures. Plus, Auel doesn't really 'overkill' the love scenes until the plains of passage, when all there is to do is travel and have sex. The rest of the time - it's brief and to the point. Never lasting for more than a page or two. I say - "If it makes you that damn uncomfortable... have more sex."