The Phantom's Opera: Book and Musical discussion

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Characters > Erik/Christine fan or not?

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message 1: by Catherine (new)

Catherine | 19 comments I know that many of you guys out there are E/C fans or Anti-E/C fans. I would like to hear some of your guy's opinion on their relationship and please discuss why you do or do not believe that Erik and Christine should be together. Personally I am anti-E/C but I will NOT judge any of you guys on your opinions and I will NOT discriminate against anyone because of their opinions. I would like to hear your thoughts and I hope this will spark some discussion. ^_^
Also throw in your opinion of Raoul as well.


message 2: by Emily (new)

Emily  (toofondofbooks_) Sometimes I'm anti-E/C and other times, i'm completely for them. it depends on the version of the story and the mood i'm in. Life with Erik would be beautiful and rich, lavish and filled with love, but i also think that on the other side of it...it would be full of...depression, fear, dealing with his self loathing that she wouldn't be able to take away, no matter how much she loved him. Raoul is a safe choice, there's no question that he loves Christine, that he would do anything for her and keep her safe, because that's Raoul. Handsome, sweet, above all, safe.

Safe.

But is safe always the best choice? This is what i struggle with. I think about Erik and how he's a roller coaster of emotions and how music runs in his veins and i can't help but to love him so much. But in the end, his life exists in the basement of the opera house. And if she stayed with him, she'd be stuck there too.

So in the end, Raoul would be the best choice, even though somehow in my heart i don't feel right saying that...i love erik. i always hoped for him to be happy but it isn't possible, the hate was festering inside of him for too long for it to be anything more.

I realize that this has been too confusing. haha. just because i'm too passionate about phantom. way too passionate.

ahaha. (:


message 3: by Sharon (new)

Sharon (fiona64) Emily Marion Dawn wrote: "Sometimes I'm anti-E/C and other times, i'm completely for them. it depends on the version of the story and the mood i'm in. Life with Erik would be beautiful and rich, lavish and filled with love,..."

The problem here is trying to apply modern mores and concepts to the situation. Gaston Leroux was writing a social commentary about Paris and what he perceived as its shallowness. Yet, one has to consider that the *only* hope for Christine to have a decent life is to marry well. In France, women didn't have property rights, for instance. Their coverture laws were not lifted until after WWII, which meant that, until the late 1940s, a woman could not have her own bank account, a passport in her own name, etc. The Napoleonic Code allowed for her to inherit something, but she could not have actual control over it.

So, to me asking this question is kind of moot. Leroux wrote the story the way he did for a reason: it's about redemption on numerous levels. Without Christine walking away, there is no redemption.


message 4: by Anne (last edited Oct 11, 2010 09:47AM) (new)

Anne (spartandax) | 26 comments I always love reading people's reasons for liking a relationship for Erik or not. I agree with Sharon that if Christine had not walked away, Erik would not have had redemption, which is the theme of my novel, "The Phantom's Redemption." I had him find a new love because from the time Christine came back and handed him the ring, I wanted to boot her across the lake. It would have been kinder just to leave with Raoul when he let them go, and not to return at all. I thought that was a real streak of cruelty on her part, to give him that little thread of hope that maybe she had changed her mind.
I am one who feels she cared for him but never truly loved him. I think it was always Raoul, and that she is better matched with him.
However, I also felt the need for Erik to leave the lair and try for a normal life, which is the theme of my book. There is no reason why a woman of maturity and love could not have helped him find himself and open him to love and caring. And as I also believe in a redemptive God, I feel that finding faith could also go a long way to help.
Many think Erik is a lost cause, and he should be left in his lair to commiserate with his loss of Christine until he dies. I did not see it that way. I felt he had so much to offer a woman and also the world by his music. He only wanted someone to care whether he lived or died, which is something everyone feels at least once in their lifetime.
Of course, some women were able to rise above the predjudices against women being successful in those days. But it took strength and fortitude to buck the mores of the time.
I feel that when Christine left him, it was an awakening, and he could then make a choice, whether to stay in the lair and feel sorry for himslef and nurse hatred and misery, or to go out into the world and try to make something of himself.


message 5: by Sharon (new)

Sharon (fiona64) Anne wrote: "I always love reading people's reasons for liking a relationship for Erik or not. I agree with Sharon that if Christine had not walked away, Erik would not have had redemption, which is the theme o..."

Heh, Anne. In my opinion, Christine played both Raoul and Erik for saps. :-)


message 6: by Alexandria (new)

Alexandria (airdnaxelA) | 5 comments Don't know if this discussion is still running but thought I'd throw an opinion out there.
I think that Christine was far too easily led and minipulated by both the phantom and Raoul.
When with Erik he controlled her through his voice and thoughts of her father and yet she still had fond memories of him as her teacher and mentor.
Then when she was with Raoul he is the safe option but he still controls her (depending on the version I suppose) In the musical she is not happy with the roll that she has to play in capturing the phantom and yet Raoul somehow manages to get her to co-operate.
I believe that she was just to young to form any kind of decision. When with Erik she is all for him. And when with Raoul she doesn't think of Erik. Neither man really gave her a chance to decide between them while being away from the pressure they were both putting on her.
And besides, who said that she even needed rescuing from Erik all the times that Raoul barged in!!
Anyway...Now onto actually answering the question lol.
Based in the novel I would be an anti e/c. Mainly because beng in relationship with Erik at that point would - in my opinion - be anything but healthy. His actions in the book are far too unpredictable and his mental state a little too un-balanced for the relationship to be anything but strained (but that is just my opinion). But then also based on the book I am an anti Raoul/Christine too. Raoul in the book could also do with a little bit of growing up I think.
Now moving onto the musical. I am a complete Erik/Christine fan. Mainly due to the time that their relationship had to develope. Unlike in the novel where the lessons had only been taking place for a short time in the musical they had been going on since she was a child. Even though Christine thought of the Phantom as her 'angel' during this time a bond of some kind would have had to have developed between them and I think that if Raoul (grrr) hadn't shown up things would have progressed by themselves and they may have been drawn together... (But again this is just my thoughts on the subject)
And then when I am in a bad mood and feeling completely uncharitable I think, stuff it Christine stop being so fickle you don't deserve anyone lol.
Anyhoo I just thought I'd bung by opinion out ;)


message 7: by Emily (new)

Emily  (toofondofbooks_) ^^^ my thought process went alotttt like yours!


message 8: by Leeann (new)

Leeann (leeannhoward) | 4 comments Poor, poor Erik! He's so very deeply in love with Christine, and she tries to be kind to him, but she doesn't love him. This made me very sad; all Erik ever really wanted was someone who loves him for himself and who doesn't care about his face or his past.
Even though Erik loves her, when he found out that she doesn't love him, he became very pushy and violent. This made me go from bouncing up and down an my chair frantically yelling at the book, "Fall in love with Erik already!Come on, marry him!" to sadly gazing at the book and thinking "Erik! Now why did you go and do that, you could have at least maintained a friendship with her if you hadn't tried to thwart Raoul's attempts to 'rescue' her!".
If she had married him though, he would have tried to the very best of his ability to make her as happy as possible. I think that he may have let her see Raoul(did I spell that correctly?), he wouldn't have liked it, but it would make her happy. I'm kind of doubly opinioned on their relationship. She devastated him and completely broke his heart by refusing to marry him, but she wouldn't have really been very happy if she had married him because she and Raoul were in love. I suppose I'm more in favor of their relationship, mostly because Erik didn't really seem to have any happiness in his life until she came along.


message 9: by Leeann (new)

Leeann (leeannhoward) | 4 comments IS the discussion still going?


message 10: by Catherine (new)

Catherine | 19 comments Xina wrote: "IS the discussion still going?"

It still is honey and thank you for the comment.


message 11: by Gemma (new)

Gemma | 48 comments Xina wrote: "Poor, poor Erik! He's so very deeply in love with Christine, and she tries to be kind to him, but she doesn't love him. This made me very sad; all Erik ever really wanted was someone who loves him ..."
I agree with everything you said, Xina. No matter how you try to pair these three up with each other, every relationship is bound to be fraught with unhappiness. Ideally, they would each find someone outside their triangle to be with who loved them the way they needed to be loved. So I guess I'm anti-E/C and anti-R/C.


message 12: by Ebehi (new)

Ebehi (hardlysimilar) | 2 comments I like Christine more in the book than the movie. In the movie she seemed really dumb and kind of self-righteous. Either way, I think that Erik deserved better, but only after he had fought his own personal demons. I do not believe that Raoul deserved love. I really did not like his attitude.


message 13: by Emily (new)

Emily  (toofondofbooks_) ^ i feel like Christine was definitely less of a ditz in the book. a lot stronger for sure.


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