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message 1: by John (last edited Sep 29, 2010 10:51PM) (new)

John Dreamer | 8 comments In the beginning God created us to be god-like, in His image, he gave us a soul and spirit, breathing His life into us. But we rebelled against him, in fact all sin is simply rebellion against God. Adam and Eve desired something they already had, to be gods, and so they disobeyed God’s word. Then we fell as a race, our nature became contrary to all that was good, because the measure for good came from God’s unchanging nature ( love, righteousness, holiness, etc.) All that is opposite to God’s nature is what we call evil, thoughts and acts of evil we know as sin. Now don’t get me wrong we still are capable of good, because our original nature of good shines through in many, brighter in some more than others. Yet sexual immorality, hate, murder, rape, racism, lies, disobedience; all are simply acts done out of rebellion against God. Yes Satan didn’t help, however we are more to blame than he is.

Let me give an example: A man holds a gun to a store clerk as his partner cleans out the register, as they are about to leave the partner says to the man, “Why don’t you just shoot the store clerk?” The man thinks about it for a second and in cold blood shoots the clerk. Who was responsible for the murder? The partner who urged the man to pull the trigger or the man who committed the crime?

This is how we blame Satan, all he can do is what we allow him to do. If he controls us it is because we let him in, either through an open door of sin or act of our will.

So back to our story. As you know all crimes have a corresponding punishment, a murderer cannot go unpunished, if the judge (God) were to pardon him then he would not be just or good, yet God is good and just. So our punishment is this, through sin and rebellion we are separated from God and cursed to be in this state for all eternity. Because we must not forget that God gave man a soul and we are everlasting, He will not destroy man because we are in his image, we have value. Understand what it means to be separated from God, he is the author of all that is good, scripture says that God places joy in our hearts, he sends rain on the good and evil, he gives us peace, he remains faithful in all things, he is love. Picture a world without love, joy, peace, and good; that my friend is hell. Add fire and brimstone to the place and you are starting to get a good picture. We are all doomed to go here, because we are in constant rebellion against God, our good works mean nothing because God looks at the heart behind the actions and our hearts are wicked. You don’t believe me? Picture gathering all your friends and family in a group and playing every thought you ever had over a loud speaker, I guarantee you would go running out of that room in shame.

God knew that we were heading for eternal destruction but he loved us to much to leave us in our plight, so he sent His Son to die in our stead. It says on the cross that Jesus was abandoned by God and then went down into hell. He took our punishments and sins upon himself, so that we might live with God. Salvation is the restoration, the reconciliation to God. There is no other way, Christ is it, we think by our good deeds that we will attain salvation but that is a lie, only God can pay the price. Someone had to die for our murder, because the payment of sin is death, but the gift of God through his Son is life eternal.

Here is why Christianity is true, because it corresponds to reality, it is quite easy to see that we have a big problem, and at the same time we are capable of immeasurable good. We commit mass genocide and then feed the poor and helpless, what is wrong with us? The theory that man is basically good does not fit with reality, there is something terribly wrong with mankind. We are capable of doing great good, but many times we treat each other like animals. The teachings of the bible fit reality, trust me they do, they are not metaphysical mumbo jumbo. So many religions are out to lunch, while Christ is tearing down religion and giving truth to those who want to hear. He is calling to all who will listen, he wants all to know his goodness, there is no other way, if you deny Christ then salvation is unattainable.


So we cannot waste time with petty words about our opinions, to say you are a Christian means that you are a follower of Christ, if you love him you will listen to his words. The bible blows me away everyday that I open it, it is living and good, powerful beyond belief. It says in the beginning God spoke and it happened, it was His word that had power behind it, whenever we speak it with belief it has the power to change everything. Scripture says that the power of life and death is in the tongue. A follower of Christ must know him, must be familiar with his words and accept his revelations. And we do not only have Christ’s words, from the Old Testament you can learn almost as much if not more about Jesus. Never forget the Holy Spirit who guides us into all truth, who spoke through Paul and the Apostles who wrote the rest of the New Testament. God has spoken, he says that his words will never pass away, never will return void. The scripture is divine and beautiful, just as Jesus himself. Now speaking about the trinity the scripture says that any man who sees God will die, and yet many times in scripture He was talked with face-to-face. The bible also says that God is spirit and no one has seen him, how can these all be? Quite simply he has revealed himself in three persons, God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit. That does not mean he is three gods, it means that he is three-in-one. However it is not God playing different roles because when Jesus was on the cross he cried out to God the Father, Why have you forsaken me? It was like a man forever connected being torn in half, Jesus was separated from a bond that close. I hope this has helped a little bit, it’s a lot of writing I know but I wished to help those who are struggling with their beliefs.


message 2: by Keara (new)

Keara (kearachristine) Whoa, my eyes hurt after all of that.

So does this mean you believe God is the Holy Spirit and Jesus as well? Or do you see them as three separate beings?


message 3: by John (new)

John Dreamer | 8 comments Three-in-one my friend, God is one, the scripture is clear about that, however he is revealed to us in three persons.


message 4: by Keara (new)

Keara (kearachristine) But Jesus talked to God, so was He just talking to Himself?


message 5: by John (last edited Sep 30, 2010 12:25AM) (new)

John Dreamer | 8 comments I'm trying to explain something that goes beyond comprehension, let me think here. Think of three centers of consciousness, inseparable, living in one being, God. Jesus came to Earth, God the Father is still in heaven, yet Jesus is connected to him, the Holy Spirit comes down to rest on Jesus and empower him, Jesus is fully God and fully man, the Holy Spirit deals with his limitations as a man (for you see Jesus is the ultimate example of living a life pleasing to God). They all play different roles, but they are still one. Think about it myhappymonster, how amazing is God? How much greater is he than us? The complexity of God makes me stand in awe of him more, not question his wonder.


message 6: by Sandy (new)

Sandy (sandycrow) | 373 comments Mod
Haha yeah my eyes hurt kinda too :)

And humans weren't really meant to fully understand the Trinity (the three-in-one that John is talking about). Some people say that God wanted to punish us all, but Jesus interceded to basically save us from God. But that is wrong (John 3:16) He SENT his son to die for us, save us from our own sin and the punishment we deserve.


message 7: by Sandy (new)

Sandy (sandycrow) | 373 comments Mod
Btw John, what do you believe about salvation? You didn't seem to cover that ;)


message 8: by John (new)

John Dreamer | 8 comments Haha I didn't? I think I indirectly did, but to clear it up. Salvation comes from believing in Christ and laying down your life to live for him, you are not saved by your good deeds however if you have true faith then good deeds will come out of your belief. If you are genuinely following Christ you will do good things and this is how you show your faith in Him. Or as Paul said it so elegantly in Galatians,"The only thing that counts (to Christ) is faith expressing itself through love".


message 9: by Sandy (new)

Sandy (sandycrow) | 373 comments Mod
So wait - just to clarify, again :) - you are saved when you repent of your sins and trust in Christ?


message 10: by John (new)

John Dreamer | 8 comments Yes, you turn from sin to following Christ. Trusting in him for everything.


message 11: by austen (new)

austen (oncebef0re) IKR? It's great!


message 12: by Sandy (new)

Sandy (sandycrow) | 373 comments Mod
John wrote: "Yes, you turn from sin to following Christ. Trusting in him for everything."

OH YES OH YES OH YES AND THE BIBLE IS GOD'S WORD AND WE ARE ALL SINFUL AND SAVED BY FAITH NOT WORKS AND— *cough* It's so awesome to have another person finally agree with us, the minority here :)


message 13: by John (new)

John Dreamer | 8 comments It says in scripture that there will be few who believe...it really saddens me but its so obvious when you look around.


message 14: by Sandy (new)

Sandy (sandycrow) | 373 comments Mod
Yeah I know, a few weeks ago I was really depressed about that. :( But there's always a reason to rejoice in the Lord—He chose us. Let's tell the world :)


message 15: by John (new)

John Dreamer | 8 comments Yes its up to us, for some reason he gave us the task =/ haha but he is good, and he will help us.


message 16: by Breezy (last edited Oct 01, 2010 06:32PM) (new)

Breezy | 62 comments MYHAPPYMONSTER wrote: "But Jesus talked to God, so was He just talking to Himself?"

I think that I can help clear the Trinity up as well... I must admit that the concept of the Trinity is something that is very difficult for me to fully understand as well. This is an analogy I learned in confirmation when I was your age, and I think it sums things up pretty well. Think of an egg. There are three parts to an egg: the shell, the white, the yolk. All three of these parts make up an egg. An egg is not a COMPLETE, TRUE egg without all three of these parts. Alone, the individual parts do not make an egg... only together. Also, the shell is not the white or the yolk. The white is not the shell or the yolk. The yolk is not the shell or the white.
The way this applies to God: There are three entities to "God" as a whole... God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Alone, any one of these entities does not comprise the whole of God- only together. The Father is not the Son nor is He the Spirit. The Son is not the Father, nor is He the Spirit. The Spirit is not the Father, nor is He the Son. But together, they are God.
Does that help?


message 17: by Sandy (new)

Sandy (sandycrow) | 373 comments Mod
That's really interesting, I've never heard it explained that way!


message 18: by Keara (new)

Keara (kearachristine) Ah, so THAT's why I'm confused. ^_^ Thanks for clearing that up.

Just to say - that's not what I believe, so it's why I was confused...


Chiara  ♪*CheesecakeLover*♪ | 684 comments Sandy wrote: "That's really interesting, I've never heard it explained that way!"

I know! It's really cool..I was always taught about the shamrock...


message 20: by Sandy (new)

Sandy (sandycrow) | 373 comments Mod
Catholics believe in the Trinity?


message 21: by austen (new)

austen (oncebef0re) Yes, as far as I know. What did you think they believed?


Rachel (aka. Kaiserin Sisi) (looney-lovegood) | 200 comments Yes, Catholics do believe in the Trinity. :-)


message 23: by Sandy (new)

Sandy (sandycrow) | 373 comments Mod
Pansy wrote: "Yes, as far as I know. What did you think they believed?"

Haha I really don't know…


Chiara  ♪*CheesecakeLover*♪ | 684 comments Sandy wrote: "Catholics believe in the Trinity?"

Ye-es....


message 25: by Douglas (last edited Oct 15, 2010 08:16PM) (new)

Douglas (littlepegleg) | 135 comments Sandy wrote: "Haha yeah my eyes hurt kinda too :)

I thought I was wordy! Oh wait....I AM!

Anyway, John, this was an excellent presentation of your worldview according to the Trinity...with a little help from friends.



Chiara  ♪*CheesecakeLover*♪ | 684 comments Douglas wrote: "Sandy wrote: "Haha yeah my eyes hurt kinda too :)

I thought I was wordy! Oh wait....I AM!

Anyway, John, this was an excellent presentation of your worldview according to the Trinity...with..."


Yes- you are wordy. :D


message 27: by austen (new)

austen (oncebef0re) So am I! LOL


Chiara  ♪*CheesecakeLover*♪ | 684 comments Not as much.....:D


message 29: by austen (new)

austen (oncebef0re) Oh, you wouldn't know, Chiara. It gets pretty bad. ;-)


Chiara  ♪*CheesecakeLover*♪ | 684 comments *scared look* worse than already??? :D


message 31: by austen (new)

austen (oncebef0re) Oh, yeah! ;-)


message 33: by ShadowTalon (new)

ShadowTalon (flameofnight) That was an interesting tidbit of information. It wasn't anything I didn't already know, but it was interesting.


Sandy wrote: "Yeah I know, a few weeks ago I was really depressed about that. :( But there's always a reason to rejoice in the Lord—He chose us. Let's tell the world :)"

You say you feel it as your responsibility to help those who are not in touch with God "find their way". How would you go about this? Those who are not Christian, after all, probably feel very in touch with God.


message 34: by Sandy (new)

Sandy (sandycrow) | 373 comments Mod
No, those who are not Christian are rebelling against God or simply don't believe that He exists. God told us to share the gospel with nonbelievers, and He can work through that.

Fortunately, though, I'm basically talking to myself because you were deleted from this group, and now I get to skip the argument we would have had if I'd replied in…a reasonable amount of time. :D


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