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message 1: by Denise (new)

Denise I keep rereading the part where Roger tells about the letter that Frank wrote to Jamie. I just can't quite wrap it around my head. Did Frank put up Jamies stone with the reference to Claire as Jamies wife? Or was it Jack Randall's stone he had put up. I am reading it as he put up Jamies but am not certain.


message 2: by Carolyn F. (new)

Carolyn F. | 322 comments Frank put it up to give a clue to Claire about Jamie being alive without straight out saying it to her.


message 3: by Mary G. (new)

Mary G. (nonometoo) | 319 comments It was also a prompt for Claire to tell Bree about Jamie and his relationship to her.


message 4: by Margaret (new)

Margaret (5margaret) | 4 comments Speaking of Frank and what he knows.... Was it ever discussed how he got hold of the miniature paintings of Claire and Jamie that he showed his students during one of his lectures??? (Can't remember which book.)
And what else does he know of Bree's future (via the past) since he taught her to ride and hunt?


message 5: by Lotte (new)

Lotte | 330 comments Margaret wrote: "Speaking of Frank and what he knows.... Was it ever discussed how he got hold of the miniature paintings of Claire and Jamie that he showed his students during one of his lectures??? (Can't remembe..."

Margaret, the lectures with the miniature paintings was described in DIA, chapter 10, mass paperback page 192. As it is described there it is not anything actually happening, but a dream of Claire.
The next reference to these miniatures is in ABOSAA, when Brianna discussed their creating with Ian and the problems involved. (I think they all stayed at River Run and Donner whistles a Beatles' song.)

It is rather vague what Frank knew about Bree's future in the past. Does it not seem peculiar to Roger that Frank took pains in having Bree taught now to ride and shoot when he himself did neither? Did you read Echo yet? There is the most explicit hint - so far - that he must have found some evidence of Bree in the 18th century (chapter 91, large paperback page 764).


message 6: by Carolyn F. (new)

Carolyn F. | 322 comments Bree mentions that Frank would take her out shooting, etc., but didn't really like doing it himself. He had to have a clue. Maybe saw one of her pictures with her name?


message 7: by [deleted user] (new)

Carolyn- that's a good idea, about Frank seeing Briana's name on something.. but would he have known that she had married? She would be signing things with Roger's last name instead of Randall, right?

And to someone as logical as Frank, I can't see him buying into a whole possible-time-travel theory based soley on finding portraits that look familiar, painted 200 years ago by an unknown artist with a vaguely familiar fist name. If she signed it just with an initial "B", he wouldn't even know that.

With all these things, I find my brain comes round and round again to the unknown characters. DG likes to throw out all these "cookies" to us, and the all have trails of crumbs, right? Is there any way that Frank was somehow convinced of the possibilities of travel by someone else? He didn't seem to believe Claire- in fact, I thought they hardly spoke of it or Jamie at all.. could Frank have somehow met Raymond in one of R's travels? That guy seems to have popped through time a LOT!


message 8: by Margaret (new)

Margaret (5margaret) | 4 comments There are lots of mysterious loose threads. Was Frank insisting on taking Brianna back to England before he was killed because he did find out that she married Roger Mac and was going to introduce them??? And what about Claire mentioning that Roger Mac's dad was never found after his plane went down near the stones. mmmhhhh? And what about the "Fraser Prophecy" that was mentioned by Geillis (sp)???


message 9: by [deleted user] (new)

Yeah... there are TONS of weird little bits scattered through these stories. I just love it! It's like a treasure hunt within a REALLY good book.. collecting these extra tidbits, and then waiting to see what they lead to next.


message 10: by Anastasia (new)

Anastasia | 17 comments DOes the " Fraser prophecy" have to do with Brianna or possibly Willie because of the ending of Echo? I am kinda of curious about Raymond also - I love these books - I can't tell you how many times I have read the series but I keep finding new stuff every time - can't wait til the next one...if waiting for her books isn't a reason to keep oneself healthy lol


message 11: by Anastasia (last edited Sep 24, 2010 07:54AM) (new)

Anastasia | 17 comments I do have one of my daughters sworn to read any books by DG that may come out after my death aloud at my grave or to my ashes or whatever... is that asking too much??? Nah I didn't think so either. ANd as she hasn't read anyof them ( the horror) she also is sworn to read them all herself!!


message 12: by Wendy F, biblioholic (new)

Wendy F (blessedwannab) | 3151 comments Anastasia wrote: "DOes the " Fraser prophecy" have to do with Brianna or possibly Willie because of the ending of Echo? I am kinda of curious about Raymond also - I love these books - I can't tell you how many times..."

Well I'm guessing it's not Willie that the prophesy is talking about. Scotland is still considered part of Britan (the UK) so it can't be him. I think she's alluding to it being of Jamie's line, which would mean after even young Jemmy, because they have yet to win back their country even in our time.


message 13: by Anastasia (new)

Anastasia | 17 comments Ah yes this is true - I was thinking more of WIllies descendants - not Willy himself but yes I see what you mean


message 14: by Ellen W-S (new)

Ellen W-S | 50 comments I am loving this thread everyone, I have wondered about the prophesy myself but I forget how the prophesy came about, I remember Gillis mentioning it in the islands and Gillis stealing the pic of Brianna b/c she thinks she is the last of the Fraser line...but how did it start, anyone remember?


message 15: by Wendy F, biblioholic (new)

Wendy F (blessedwannab) | 3151 comments well did the prophesy say 'Jamie's line or just a Fraser line? Because if thats the case, there are other Frasers otu there right? Like Jamie's cousin Simon?


message 16: by [deleted user] (new)

Would someone please post the prophesy again? I don't quite remember it, and my books are loaned out at the moment.


message 17: by Margaret (new)

Margaret (5margaret) | 4 comments I checked out copies from the library, so I don't have them for reference. But I believe it would be in the third book, Voyager. That was the book where they traveled to the Caribbean to rescue Ian? Wasn't it? But it may have been briefly mentioned again in a later book.


message 18: by Margaret (new)

Margaret (5margaret) | 4 comments Did it say a Fraser from the MacKenzie/Fraser line would be .....?
That would rule out Simon's line?


message 19: by [deleted user] (new)

Wouldn't that be Jem, then? He's a VERY direct mix of Fraser/MacKenzie! ...


message 20: by Wendy F, biblioholic (new)

Wendy F (blessedwannab) | 3151 comments That would be Jem, and youre right Margaret, I think it was a Fraser from the MacKenzie line.


message 21: by Ellen W-S (new)

Ellen W-S | 50 comments Wendy wrote: "That would be Jem, and youre right Margaret, I think it was a Fraser from the MacKenzie line."
Right at the time of VOyager though, Jemmy wasn't born yet, the prophesy is semi-explained when Claire and Gellis are talking alone in Gellis' plantation and then Gellis steals the picture of Brianna out of Jamie's jacket...therefore Gellis learns that there is an heir of the Fraser line...Brianna. Last hundred pages or so of the book (Voyager) I think.


message 22: by Wendy F, biblioholic (new)

Wendy F (blessedwannab) | 3151 comments yeah, absolutely, but every child Bree has will be of that same line. It could be a few generations after Bree, she just proves that the line continues.


message 23: by Lotte (new)

Lotte | 330 comments As far as I can remember the prophesy was mentioned near the end of Voyager and then did not show up any more. I did not pay it much attention, your discussion made me curious, however, I just re-read this part (page 986, mass-market paperback). This prophesy in mentioned when Clair and Jamie looked for Ian at Rose Hall, and Clair confronts Rev. Archibald Campbell, mistaking him for Ian. Geillis, now Mrs. Abernathy, wanted the Reverend to bring a genealogy chart of the "Fraser of Lovat", showing Jamie and his father in the ending. And acc. to the Reverend the prophesy by the Brahan Seer states "that a new ruler of Scotland will spring from the Lovat's lineage". It goes on for a bit (rather more cryptic), but then Claire unfortunately stops listening.

I do not know what to do with this information. By experience we should expect to meet it sometime later. So far we are 4 books and 11 years later...and we should not forget that William, Viscount..., Earl... and so on, is in this lineage as well.

I think Geillis took the picure of Brianna just to have a reference to go to in the future.


message 24: by Wendy F, biblioholic (new)

Wendy F (blessedwannab) | 3151 comments Geillis goes on about it when they are in the cave though. She clearly said something about how she'd thought that the Jamie's Fraser/MacKenzie line died out because he didn't have children. And that when she saw Bree's picture she knew it had to be through Bree.

I'll have to go flip through the end of Voyager when I get home.


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