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General Chatting > Biracial Heroine vs Biracial Heroes: Black Woman/White Man Stories

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message 1: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 6621 comments Mod
I know that a lot of fans of black woman/white man interracial stories don't mind if the heroine is mixed/biracial, but they want the man to be white and not just look white (Those stories where the half black man looks white).

Questions:

1. Why do you believe that it's okay for the heroine to be biracial and not the hero?

2. Do you believe that if the hero is mixed that the story is not an interracial story?

I have read some black woman/white man interracial stories, where the heroine was mixed. Alyssa is mixed. Sandra Kitt has an heroine that's mixed in one of her books.

We have some half black/half white people that comes out looking white and they will tell people that they are white.

I will be writing a future story, where my heroine is Tri-racial.


message 2: by Chaeya (new)

Chaeya | 454 comments Arch, I've heard complaints about the hero being biracial too. Just from the gist of the complaints I read was they didn't like the fact that the hero's ethnicity was revealed late in the story, sometimes at the end like a surprise. We all know how we romance readers hate certain surprises. The other issue discussed was the fact that BW/WM books have been criticized by some people as not being realistic because some people don't believe that a white man could find a black woman attractive. By making the hero half black or something, it was suggested that the attraction would have been easier to believe.

This is not to say that this was the authors' intentions, that was how it was perceived by some readers.

Chaeya


message 3: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 6621 comments Mod
I think that an author is wrong for stating that her book is interracial - a black woman/white man story and have the readers find out towards the end of the book that the hero is half black.

I would never read an author's story that have that plot. It would truly be a waste of my time.

If anyone knows of books that's like that. Please state them in this thread, so I can stay away from them.


message 4: by Sharon (new)

Sharon Huxford (blackpanthershay) | 970 comments So how would one label the biracial heroine and hero?
would it just be black if they are of b/w heritage?
what is they are white/asian or black/asian
native/white?


message 5: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 6621 comments Mod
I know that a lot of biracial (half black/half white) people refer to themselves as black. Alyssa is mixed with black and white. It's said that she's part latino too. So, I'm assuming on her mother side. She refers to herself as black.

Halle Berry is half white and half black, she refers to herself as a black woman. President Obama is mixed, but he goes by black, if I am not mistaken.

Some people are mixed with black/other races, but I don't know if they say they are black.

The Rock (Dwayne Johnson)is half black (his father is black), but I don't know if he goes by black. He might just say he's Samoan. His mother is Samoan. When I first saw him, I knew he had black in him, although he looks Samoan.

I don't know what Wentworth Miller from Prison Break goes by, but he's half black/half white. Some people probably thinks he's white, because some white people have that tan look.

Sharon, I could be wrong, but I think it depends on the writer as to what their character will call themselves.


message 6: by Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors (last edited Sep 16, 2010 10:56AM) (new)

 Danielle The Book Huntress  (gatadelafuente) | 7314 comments Mod
I have no problem with bi-racial characters on either side. I think I would have a problem with the 'surprise, I'm actually part black' storyline because it's dishonest. I think you should get what you pay for.

I actually like to write about multi-ethnic characters myself. In my current Dangerous Hero challenge story, my heroine is half-Welsh and half-African-American (half-white/half-black).

I think some readers read BW/WM because they want the romance to have a white hero who is not part-black. It might be because they want to see some couples like they are dating, to encourage them.


message 7: by Chaeya (new)

Chaeya | 454 comments Family Guy did a funny thing about The Rock where they're speculating about his race. It was hilarous.

I consider myself biracial or black is fine. I couldn't ever say I was white.

Chaeya


message 8: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 6621 comments Mod
Chaeya, what did Family Guy do? What conclusion did they come to about The Rock?


message 9: by Chaeya (new)

Chaeya | 454 comments I can't remember the joke that started it but they shifted to the Rock and they were going.

What is he?
Is he black?
Is he half black half white?

I'm trying to find a video of it because I was half asleep when it came on, but he's standing there rolling his eyes around as they're talking about it. It's really funny.

Chaeya


message 10: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 6621 comments Mod
Okay thanks Chaeya. I would like to see that video.


message 11: by Sharon (new)

Sharon Huxford (blackpanthershay) | 970 comments I always wonder why it's easy to say black when a person is biracial black/white,same goes for Asian/White/ or black
native/white or black

Is it because society views it as not white? or native?

Hope this isn't confusing


message 12: by Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors (new)

 Danielle The Book Huntress  (gatadelafuente) | 7314 comments Mod
I think it's because humans want to put things/people in boxes, so they can more easily/simplistically understand things.


message 13: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 6621 comments Mod
Sharon, most biracial people will say black, because they come out looking black and a lot of people will see them as being black.

I could tell that Halle is biracial without her stating that she's biracial. But, just looking at Halle, if you didn't know that she was half white, what race would you say that she is?


message 14: by Stolie77 (last edited Sep 20, 2010 12:41PM) (new)

Stolie77 | 15 comments Im biracial (black and white) and i think some of it has to do with family. I personally do not say black OR white. I categorize myself as biracial or mixed only. my justification on this is because i was raised by both parents in my home, and i refuse to deny or alienate either one of them. it is a respect issue for me.

i have heard Halle stated that when she was small, her mother told her she was black, but she just had a white mother, and she has agreed with that observation. i can understand that. And i can understand how most mixed race people (part being black) would consider themselves black because walking down the street, society sees them (us) as minorities period. plain and simple. And some of this goes back to the "one drop rule" started during slavery, being that just one drop of black blood would make the child black. The better to add that new child as a slave as well.

it is a very complicated issue, but interestingly enough, i still get asked that question often. "what are you?" "what are you mixed with?" etc..but mostly people just assume all kinds of things including that i am hispanic and walk up to me speaking in spanish...which is met by my complete and utter blank stare. LOL


message 15: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 6621 comments Mod
I usually can tell if a person is mixed with black or even have black in them.

I feel that biracial children should be called biracial. If they are tri-racial, they should go by tri-racial as well or even if they are a mixed of more than three things. They should just say they are a mixture of a lot of races.


message 16: by Stacy-Deanne (new)

Stacy-Deanne Stacy-Deanne (wwwgoodreadscomstacydeanne) Good question.

I'm gonna speak just from preference but I want the men white. It only has to do with what I am attracted to. I love black women and white men books because this is my preference and so when I pick up that type of book, this is what I want, a white man. I also think that if the characters are biracial, then this should be stated by the author ahead of time. I read a book years ago, can't remember the name but the black woman was in a relationship with a "white" man. Well at the very end they had it where he found out he was half-black. I was pissed! Pissed, because it didn't even fit. There was no indication through the entire book that this man had even been adopted, let alone that he was half-black. So I also felt robbed because I'm sorry, if I pick up a IR book that says black woman and WHITE man, that's what I want. If I pick up a book that says "biracial lovers", well I'll expect that. LOL!

I don't even like to read IR books that aren't BW/WM, to be honest. I'm not saying they wouldn't be interesting or good, but my preference is BW and WM and when I look for IR books, that is what I want. Especially if the author is toting the book as that type of romance. I do feel mad and upset when I read a book and feel like the author pulled a fast one.

A friend of mine loves IR too and she was upset about a book she recently read where the black woman chose the black man over the white man in an IR book! That's not IR if the same race ends up together! Please! This is why we love these books, to see IR couples, not to be cheated. She said if she wanted an AA romance she would've picked one. LOL!

Best Wishes!

http://www.stacy-deanne.net


message 17: by Arch , Mod (last edited Oct 04, 2010 07:48PM) (new)

Arch  | 6621 comments Mod
lol Stacy-Deanne, I know how you feel. I haven't read a book yet, where the book is said to be interracial bw/wm and the man turned out to be half black.

I want a 100% white man too, in an bw/wm story. I wouldn't like it, if the man turned out to be half black or anything else, when it's suppose to be bw/wm.

Now, if an author is going to write an interracial book or market her book as a bw/wm book, the couple better be interracial. Don't have the heroine pick a black man in an interracial book.


message 18: by Stacy-Deanne (new)

Stacy-Deanne Stacy-Deanne (wwwgoodreadscomstacydeanne) I'm telling you, Arch! LOL!


message 19: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 6621 comments Mod
lol Stacy-Deanne,

Give me interracial or don't give me anything at all!


message 20: by JC (last edited Oct 12, 2010 12:26PM) (new)

JC (ainathiel) I don't think we should go that far in a person ancestry just to know what to call them or describe a character. It is best just to call a person, what they say they are. But calling a person tri-racial or quad-racial seems like crossing a line into the one-drop policy. There is a reasons society doesn't use words like octroon and other one or two drop terms.


message 21: by JC (new)

JC (ainathiel) On the issue of biracials vs IR. I don't have a problem with it if it works in the story. Meaning I read a book where the female character was biracial, her mother was Asian and her father black. The characters love interest was a white man. Later the writer wrote about the female's character brother.
I was posting (haven't been able to add anything to it since) on goodreads about a couple, the male character is biracial, the female character is black with an biracial kid. It didn't bug me to write the story because that is how I saw the characters.


message 22: by Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors (new)

 Danielle The Book Huntress  (gatadelafuente) | 7314 comments Mod
Jo, please edit your comment #20 to remove Arch's post, so I don't have to delete it, per the rules about replying to posts. Thank you.


message 23: by Arch , Mod (last edited Oct 12, 2010 03:20PM) (new)

Arch  | 6621 comments Mod
A lot of people are mixed with a lot of races.

A lot of people that is only mixed with two races - black and white, will go by black.

Alyssa Locke is part black, latino and white. Her father was white. She referred to herself a black.

I don't believe, because a person is biracial or any combination of racial and they look black that they really have to say they are black.

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with a biracial person saying they are biracial.

Now, I don't think that a writer/author should present their story as a bw/wm book, if the man is not 100% white.

A writer/author knows what they are writing.


message 24: by JC (new)

JC (ainathiel) Arch,

I see your point and I have this question, the person you spoke about identified more with her black heritage than her white and latino. If the writer is portraying a character that identifies with his white heritage more than any other, how is he not a white man?


message 25: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 6621 comments Mod
Jo,

I have never read a book yet, where the hero was suppose to be white, but later on found out he was half black or had black blood running through his veins.

That's the problem. If the author knows that her hero isn't 100% white, then I feel that he/she shouldn't market their book as a black woman/white man interracial story.

Why have the reader think that the hero is white from page 1-275 and then on page 276, drop a bomb that the hero just looks white or he has black kin folks.

I have Native American/Indian kin folks. My grandmother's mother - my great grandmother was half black, half Native American/Indian and her husband, my great grandfather was Native American/Indian.

I have Native American/Indian features.

On my grandfather's side, his mother was a mulatto b.k.a biracial today. So, I have white kin folks as well.

Yet, I'm black.

Alyssa seen herself as being black, although she was mixed with all those races. That's why she was referred to as black in Suzanne's stories. She's described as looking like Vanessa Williams. Most people think that Vanessa Williams is mixed, but both of her parents are biracial and that's why she looks like she does and have those green eyes.

It's a difference between identifying yourself as a certain race and not knowing you are half of or have "this race" running through your veins.

I'm writing a story called Trespassing. Black woman/white man. How would my readers feel if all of a sudden in my story, I tell them Cop is actually half black and he just looks white? Cop has been raised by two white people - his parents.

I hope what I am saying makes sense.

Give me interracial or give me nothing.


message 26: by JC (new)

JC (ainathiel) Well I did read a book where the character didn't know about his black heritage. It was pretty obvious to the reader.

This is why I have problems with the whole term of race. I use it mostly because it is a common word. But I have never agreed with it ever.

I believe you are trying to say that when a writer introduces character, there shouldn't be any twist with the characters origins, that were not laid out during the story.
I partially disagree, I think that when written well the character's twist makes the story more enjoyable. Does this work for every writer and story? Of course not, writing is fluid, learning skill and not everyone has there forte. However you can't know your writing until you try out others kinds as well.


message 27: by Arch , Mod (last edited Oct 16, 2010 06:07PM) (new)

Arch  | 6621 comments Mod
Well, as a writer, I wouldn't take my readers down the twist road. If I am writing an interracial story about a black woman/white man. My white man is going to be 100% white.

As a reader, I want 100% white man in the black woman/white man stories that I chose to read. If I can't get a 100% white man, then I don't want to read it.

I'm not looking for a twist. I'm looking for a black woman/white man story.


message 28: by Stacy-Deanne (new)

Stacy-Deanne Stacy-Deanne (wwwgoodreadscomstacydeanne) Jo, I respect your opinion and I understand your point. But my point is that fans of black women and white men IR prefer those types of books because that is what they want to read. I wouldn't have a problem with the type of book where the character didn't know about their heritage if I knew ahead of time and it wasn't classified as a black woman and white man IR book. That's misleading.

In IR, the basis of the romance is that it is interracial so the characters MUST be of different races or it is misleading and is not an IR book. A biracial man and a black woman is NOT an IR book and the problem comes when authors try to pass that off as IR books. In fact to me, a biracial man who is white and black with a black woman is just a black romance and I don't read straight black romances. I want the white dude and the black chick. LOL!

I LOVE white men and black women books. That is what I wanna read period. I don't wanna read another type of romance passed off as IR and I want the woman black and the man white.

So once again the problem is not the plot or what the author wants to do, just be honest about it. If I write a book and market it as a lesbian love story, I'm not gonna have one of the ladies bisexual. See it's a disservice there and a slap in the face to readers who wanted a lesbian love story. That's how it is to pick up a book that's pushed and touted as and IR with a BW/WM and have it that one of the characters is biracial.

To me I think that's a cop out move and it suggests to me that the author made the man biracial instead of white so they wouldn't have to go all the way with writing an IR story. Like they wanna try to make it more accepting to the mainstream market or whatever. I don't know. LOL! But I know I want a white man in the books and nothing else.

Best Wishes!

http://www.stacy-deanne.net


message 29: by new_user (last edited Oct 16, 2010 05:51PM) (new)

new_user Yeah, I think some readers, like myself, who pick up IR in part want to explore those identities, so I can see why readers don't want a sudden which-race-is-he twist. But I see your point about "race" not being so definable, etc., Jo. I agree.


message 30: by JC (new)

JC (ainathiel) I like stories where people fall in love, biracial, uni-racial or interracial I don't care. A well written story works like calgon for me. I want to read some and I want to write some as well.

I understand why some readers will feel cheated but I believe it is still the writer's prerogative to write the story they want. Usually it is the marketing department of the publishers to decision to promote the book. Although that might be changing with e-books, I think. Sudden unexplainable changes in a story is wrong. I believe when written properly it works in the story (sorry if I repeated myself).

I think I will agree to disagree and we can all still be friends right?

As a writer, I think of my characters as real people. I feel they have perception of themselves,the writer doesn't necessarily know. Some things about them I don't become aware of until I am writing the story or outline.


message 31: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 6621 comments Mod
I will speak for myself Jo. I always let a person stand tall on their opinion. I always stand tall on my opinion.

I'm okay with people disagreeing with me. I would not stop talking to people, because they disagree withe me. I have had people do that to me. I'm just words on a screen. I like to converse with other people. Generally speaking here - A lot of people take me the wrong way. It doesn't take long for someone to label me as the enemy. My life is grand and I never stop walking.

Now, as for writing - I'm a strong believer that a writer better what the story he or she wants to tell. I do. I write for myself. I write stories that I want to see - read about.

My stories aren't for everyone, just as every other writer's stories aren't for everyeone.

We all have themes that we don't like and that's okay.


message 32: by Stacy-Deanne (last edited Oct 18, 2010 10:26PM) (new)

Stacy-Deanne Stacy-Deanne (wwwgoodreadscomstacydeanne) Jo, I don't disagree with you at all and get what you mean. All I am saying is that whatever the book is supposed to be about, no matter what type of romance, should just be displayed that way. I agree with you that sometimes it's the publishers that do pass off books as things they are not and the author has no control, but I have read books where the author themselves pushed a book as something it wasn't. So I agree with you as long as it's not misleading anyone, I'm okay with it. I just wanna make sure what I want to read and spend my money on is what I am getting. People spend their money on our books and they should get what they want. Readers do feel cheated and they don't always understand or care if it was the author or publisher's fault that something was displayed wrong. They just feel it's unfair.

But with my author hat back on, I'd like to address what you said about what pubs do by pushing books as something they are not. This is why authors should speak up. A lot of authors will speak up in a minute. Black authors have to deal with this type of stuff all the time especially when it comes to certain characters and their book covers. Some authors will tell the pub that they don't agree with what's happening while others sit there and don't say anything. I don't have any respect for an author who let's a publisher push their book as something they don't agree with or that's completely different from their vision. A lot of pubs pull this with black authors and their covers. They don't wanna put black folks on covers, claiming they don't sell. So they'll even put a dark-haired white person or Hispanic on the cover. This happens a lot. I only mention this to say, the author needs to stand up for themselves. I wouldn't let a pub push my book in a direction it's not intended and I certainly wouldn't sit there and let them disrespect my vision or my race just to "sell" books. That's selling out to me and if I personally had to do that I'd not wanna write.

Just using the black book/cover thing as an example as to what kinds of things authors should speak up about.

Best Wishes!

http://www.stacy-deanne.net


message 33: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 6621 comments Mod
I'm glad that I am not a published writer. I couldn't let anyone tell me what I can do or can't do with my book. I wouldn't want someone to put wrong people on my cover, because they don't feel a certain race wouldn't sell. That's crap!


message 34: by JC (new)

JC (ainathiel) It is difficult. However if I had my choice I want to be a published writer and publish books myself. Along with my publishing career I want to be interviewed by Bill Thompson from eye on books and Leonard Lopate of the Leonard Lopate show on the radio.


message 35: by Amon Noir (last edited Oct 20, 2010 11:37AM) (new)

Amon Noir | 15 comments There was a similar joke during this comedian Steve Byrne's stand-up. One thing he said that I believe is definitely true in american society today is that "what ever dilutes the water is what you are or at least what people say you are". The comedian himself is half White, half Asian but people see him as just asian. Even in my family there are relatives that are half Asian, half Black but they mostly look asian so family just considers them Asian. I don't personally think it's right but I know that's how people think. I believe if the story is well written it shouldn't be too much of a big deal if the hero/heroine is biracail/multiracial.


message 36: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 6621 comments Mod
Sherrell, remove the quote or I will have to delete your reply.


message 37: by Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors (new)

 Danielle The Book Huntress  (gatadelafuente) | 7314 comments Mod
Arch, it's okay to include quotes by outside sources. Members are not allowed to include quotes by each other.


message 38: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 6621 comments Mod
My bad. Sherrell, I apologize to you, please accept my apology. I have seen I think it was Vixenne's name in italic that's why I thought you were quoting something that Vixenne had said.

I've seen wrong. Sorry!


message 39: by Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors (new)

 Danielle The Book Huntress  (gatadelafuente) | 7314 comments Mod
Although I'm not Sherrell, No problem, Arch. Thanks for watching out!


message 40: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 6621 comments Mod
You are welcome Danielle. I will make sure next time that I see right.


message 41: by Amon Noir (new)

Amon Noir | 15 comments It's alright I accept your apology though I was a little curious on what I did wrong but I left it alone. It's all good.


message 42: by Chicki (new)

Chicki Brown (chicki663) | 130 comments The racial issue isn't a conflict point in my book. The hero is biracial (Black/Italian) but that fact is stated early on in the story. His racial makeup was cause of identity problems when he was young. As he got older, he embraced both parts his heritage.


message 43: by Bekah, Mod (new)

Bekah (bekah317) | 113 comments Mod
I have to agree that I don't want a surprise twist either. I haven't been fortunate enough to read a lot of ir work but I do appreciate it when I get what I paid for according to what was described or presented in the description of the book.


message 44: by new_user (last edited Oct 31, 2010 12:57PM) (new)

new_user Chicki, we'd prefer authors don't plug their works in discussion, so if you don't mind editing your post, we'd appreciate it. Thanks!


message 45: by Chicki (new)

Chicki Brown (chicki663) | 130 comments Sorry. Is there a place to do that?


message 46: by Bekah, Mod (new)

Bekah (bekah317) | 113 comments Mod
Yes Chicki! There is a promotions folder where you can list your upcoming titles.

Thanks!


message 47: by Chicki (new)

Chicki Brown (chicki663) | 130 comments Thak you. I'll check there.


message 48: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 6621 comments Mod
Justine, quoting members are not allowed on here. Please remove your quotes or your replies will be deleted.

I don't read books where the hero is not 100% white. Thanks for the offer though.


message 49: by Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors (last edited Nov 01, 2010 05:53AM) (new)

 Danielle The Book Huntress  (gatadelafuente) | 7314 comments Mod
Justine, I deleted all three of your posts. The rules are that you do not quote other's posts or use the reply button. If you would like to discuss this, feel free to PM me offlist. Thanks.


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