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Veronika Decides to Die
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1001 Monthly Group Read > September {2010} Discussion -- VERONIKA DECIDES TO DIE by Paulo Coelho

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Charity (charityross) Now open for discussion...


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I also enjoyed this book, I appreciated that he had an original story to tell. His writing style was very simple and to the point which I liked. Overall, I thought it was an original, witty book. It makes you reflect on how you are living and what you done with your life.


Judy (patchworkcat) | 38 comments Agree, excellent book. There were so many good points made in this book. This discussion between Zedka and Veronika is one of them:

Zedka: I'll say that insanity is the inability to communicate your ideas. It's as if you were in a foreign country, able to see and understand everything that's going on around you but incapable of explaining what you need to know or of being helped, because you don't understand the language they speak there.

Veronika: We've all felt that.

Zedka: And all of us, one way or another are insane.

Also, the discussion between Dr. Igor and Veronika where she asks him what reality is and he states that "It's whatever the majority deems it to be." In my opinion, that was a pretty profound statement and so true in society in general.


Melissa I remember really liking "The Alchemist," while I don't remember much of the story, so I was fairly excited to read this one too. I was not disappointed.

At church, our Bible verse for the month is Romans 15:13-- "May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit." Like Mari says- I want to be a fountain that floods everyone.


Richard | 7 comments Finished this book a few days ago and loved it.
I enjoyed his writing style, and the thought provoking sentiments throughout the novel.

Makes me want to re-read the Alchemist, and perhaps the author's other books.

Highly recommended for those who are yet to read this book.


Kirsten | 35 comments I thought this book would be depressing, but it was the contrary - very uplifting and made you remember to be grateful for the life that you have. I liked how Coelho merged his philosophy pretty effortlessly into conversation and the character's internal monologues. I will definitely be reading more Coelho!

What did everyone think of Dr Igor's "experiment"?


Melissa i loved his name, number one. :)

It seems kind of absurd to try to quantify bitterness, but i suppose that's what a lot of psychology is... trying to put a scientific slant on such a subjective thing like personality and soul.

His intentions were good, but...............


Kathy I really hated this book. It was too trite for words. Mad people are really sane and sane people are really mad? Oh, really? I think not.

Look, I'm just too old for this kind of banal, adolescent musing on the meaning of life. If all the books on the list were like this, I would be thinking that these are the 1001 books that you should be leaving unread on your shelves when you finally get around to dying.


Melissa Are you feeling vitriolic Kathy? :)


Carol (goodreadscomcarolann) I thought it was a great book! Original, so different from so many books.


Kristel (kristelh) I didn't mind this book. I think of the Bell Jar and this one together. I liked the ideas and philosophy behind this story of a young woman's suicidal thoughts. I liked that she was able to want to live in the end. There were parts that dragged but it has stuck with me even though I read it awhile back.


Tanya (aka ListObsessedReader) (listobsessed) | 108 comments I read this a couple of months ago and I consider it what I call a 'lingerer', one of those books that refuse to let you start another book straight after as you haven't finished processing yet. I've had a few of these this year... thinking of starting a Goodreads shelf to keep track of them!

This book just has such an intriguing concept... This was my first and so far still only Coelho. I have meant to read the Alchemist but have never gotten around to it. I originally gave this 4 stars but when it was still going around in my head a week later I bumped it up to 5. Amazing.


Amanda Kathy wrote: "I really hated this book. It was too trite for words. Mad people are really sane and sane people are really mad? Oh, really? I think not.

Look, I'm just too old for this kind of banal, adolesce..."


I have sympathy for Kathy's point of view and applaud her for bringing these points up.

I didn't have high expectations for this book, having really disliked The Alchemist for the most part (apart from the café scenes), but decided since the group was reading it and it sounded interesting I'd give it a go. I'm glad I did, but I found a fair part of Cohelo's musings trite. He brings up some interesting ideas regarding how society defines insanity and how sometimes people can change how they feel and behave by changing the way they think, but he also prone to philosophic psychobabble.

I was particularly worried by the fact that Cohelo seems to imply that a schizophrenic can be cured simply by falling in love as if mental illness were a lifestyle choice, or a bit like feeling a little sad, rather than a serious neurological problem that can make them a danger to themselves and those around them.


Kristel (kristelh) Amanda wrote: "Kathy wrote: "I really hated this book. It was too trite for words. Mad people are really sane and sane people are really mad? Oh, really? I think not.

Look, I'm just too old for this kind of..."


Tanya wrote: "I read this a couple of months ago and I consider it what I call a 'lingerer', one of those books that refuse to let you start another book straight after as you haven't finished processing yet. I'..."

I appreciate what Amanda says here, well thought out comments.


message 15: by Judy (new) - rated it 4 stars

Judy (patchworkcat) | 38 comments Amanda,

Your comments are interesting and I think you presented them well. However, I didn't perceive Coelho as implying that falling in love was a cure to schizophrenia. I think it implies more that mental illness can often be cured by getting the focus off one's self and having a reason to live. In the schizophrenic's case it happened to be falling in love. You are absolutely correct that realistically schizophrenia can't be cured that easily, or most likely any mental illness. But since this was a fiction story, it was nice that it happened that way.

I thought your comment about psychobabble was interesting simply because to me the book didn't read clinically or tritely but as interesting as any book on this subject could read. I was shocked that this subject could be so light and entertaining. I expected something heavier and drier.


message 16: by Kathy (new) - rated it 1 star

Kathy Melissa wrote: "Are you feeling vitriolic Kathy? :)"

Yes, I most certainly am! Because what's so dishonest about this kind of book is that - HEY! - it's a best seller. And so not designed to appeal to the minority of people who actually lead insightful, reflective lives, but to the masses who, like sheep, rush out to buy Coelho's latest.

And, incidentally, were we supposed to be surprised by the denouement? Hah! That's what I assumed the doctor was up to all along. The ending seemed completely predictable because it was such an utter cliche.


Melissa With all due respect, just because something is well liked by the masses, does not mean it is without merit. Being well liked does not prove merit, but it does not necessarily disprove it either.

I see you are a Shakespeare fan Kathy, so you might be a good person to ask: I thought the whole concept of vitriol was similar to the Elizabethan theory of the four humours (choleric, sanguine, phlegmatic, melancholy). Can you give some background on those?


message 18: by Kathy (last edited Sep 17, 2010 07:29AM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Kathy Melissa wrote: "With all due respect, just because something is well liked by the masses, does not mean it is without merit. Being well liked does not prove merit, but it does not necessarily disprove it either.
..."


Sure, but Coelho's premise seems to be that the masses accept their lives of quiet desperation... So will buying this book save them? Or is it just further proof of their hopeless lack of originality?

Theories about humours, although still influential during the early modern era, actually derive from Greek ideas about the structure of the world and the human body. The vestiges of these ideas still exist today in astrology, Tarot and other superstitious beliefs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Tem...

As for Vitriol... Well, I can't say I took any of that stuff too seriously. Someone else here has succinctly termed it 'psychobabble' and I can't do better than that.


Lucinda (mimiyoyo) | 1 comments Kathy wrote: "Melissa wrote: "Are you feeling vitriolic Kathy? :)"

Yes, I most certainly am! Because what's so dishonest about this kind of book is that - HEY! - it's a best seller. And so not designed to ap..."


I agree. Although I liked the book overall, it didn't take long for it to become predictable and you could see where the plot was going. The outcome was easy to figure out!


Melissa Kathy wrote: Sure, but Coelho's premise seems to be that the masses accept their lives of quiet desperation... So will buying this book save them? Or is it just further proof of their hopeless lack of originality?

No, buying a book will not save you. Being reborn is the only way to be saved.

(she says as she braces herself to hear that she's a a mindless sheep with no self-reflection or original thought of her own) :)


message 21: by Lorena (last edited Sep 17, 2010 08:35AM) (new) - rated it 1 star

Lorena I found this rather boring. I'm hoping next month's book is more exciting.


message 22: by Kathy (new) - rated it 1 star

Kathy Melissa wrote: "Kathy wrote: Sure, but Coelho's premise seems to be that the masses accept their lives of quiet desperation... So will buying this book save them? Or is it just further proof of their hopeless lac..."

Whoops! Religion. See you next month.


Richard | 7 comments I agree with the point made regarding the Doctor's plan - it did seem rather sign-posted to me also.

I wouldn't go so far as to agree that it detracted away from the main themes of the novel, but it was certainly a weak point of the book in my opinion.


Katherine (katats) | 151 comments It's kind of funny, because from my point of view I never thought the boy was actually "schizophrenic". The blurb about the book in the printed 1001 Books list states, and it is also alluded to in the novel, that Coelho was hospitalized by his parents in his youth. The boy is sent to Vilette for the same reason as Coelho--artistic tendencies. Schizophrenia was merely a label that was easy to grasp.

I was pretty annoyed with Veronika's assessment of schizophrenia. She knew nothing about it, yet attached herself to the idea that he was "in his own world" and would keep telling him that. She seemed incredibly ignorant in her understanding. Maybe that was the point.


Amanda Katherine wrote: "It's kind of funny, because from my point of view I never thought the boy was actually "schizophrenic". The blurb about the book in the printed 1001 Books list states, and it is also alluded to in ..."

Actually, very good point Katherine. I'm glad you brought this up as I did suspect whilst I was reading that perhaps the boy wasn't schizophrenic afterall. The symptoms mentioned didn't seem with my limited knowledge of mental health to denote schizophrenia and I did wonder if the characters had attached a faulty label to him (a study in America decades past showed that once people in mental institutions are labelled as potentially schizophrenic, they found it VERY hard to lose that initial label and some patients went along with these diagnosies because they wanted to stay in the hospitals. Unfortunately I cannot recall the exact details of the study at the moment but maybe Cohelo was referencing this). As mentioned, Veronika herself seemed ignorant as to what schizophrenia is and we never see a member of staff confirm it; perhaps it was a point Cohelo was trying to make.


Kristel (kristelh) How do you feel about the experiment on Veronika? Was it morally justifiable?


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Jenna | 9 comments I liked the book. I thought it was a quirky way to point out the value of living a truly good life and setting out a not so subtle road map.

Live each day to the fullest (the lesson learned by Veronika and transferred by extension to many in Villette).

Love without reserve or restraint, if you are lucky enough to find it (Mari, Veronika and the boy (who I did not think was truly schizophrenic eitehr).

Afford others the respect to do their own thing as long as it doesn't hurt you (something the boy's parents did not do, something Veronika's parents discouraged her from doing).

Help others if and when you can (Mari's choice to go to help others instead of staying at Villette).

Enjoy the artistic side of yourself (Veronika and the boy learn this together).

Respect yourself and value yourself, because if you don't it's not likely anyone else will (Veronika, the boy, Mari and Zedka all seem to learn from this).

Question authority and remember people often will act against your interest in favor of their own (the director of Villette)

Parents often mean well, but don't always recognize the best way to act. Let's face it, we do the best we can, but in the end, once our kids are grown, we have to let them go.


Melissa Kristel wrote: "How do you feel about the experiment on Veronika? Was it morally justifiable?"

This is a tricky one. What was his motive- to help V and patients like her or to gain notoriety for himself?

Did he do greater good than harm? I would say so. Traditional treatment may not have helped her or revived her in nearly the way things did play out.

Were there alternatives to the treatment? I suppose. Did he have to go so far as to give her medicine to bring on heart ailments?

Should he have let V or her parents in on it? Probably at least V's ma.

And if V had not left the hospital so abruptly, and the good dr. had told V the truth, would she have reverted? I think maybe. Thereby negating any good effects of the lie.

So overall- I would say unethical.


Amanda Kristel wrote: "How do you feel about the experiment on Veronika? Was it morally justifiable?"

Absolutely not - Dr. Igor was obviously an idealistic maverick that one could argue was as 'mad' as his patients (Vitriol, really?).

His experiement seems to have paid off, but I don't believe it is ever ethical to lie to someone about their health (especially regarding their mortality) and Veronika will now live the rest of her life (unless she eventually goes to a doctor to find out) in the fear that she could die at any moment.

And it could have so easily gone the other way. Did not Veronika at first try to acquire sleeping pills to finish the job, consider jumping off the roof, etc? What if she had not met the boy, or the hospital did not have a piano/Veronika only played the cello, etc? It could have gone disasterously wrong. Medical research shows that although some people become more focused and realise the true value of their lives when they know they are going to die, others become pessimistic and LOSE THE WILL TO LIVE!

So HIGHLY unethical in my opinion.


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Jenna | 9 comments I felt the experiment was clearly unethical. I think Dr. Igor knew that. But I also read this book more like a parable. I think the experiment was a contrived way to get to the moral of the story.

Dr. Igor was a reprehensible figure in the parable. Judgmental with an ego the size of Asia, he is more concerned with his own legacy than anything else, right or wrong.

I think that it is not an accident that Coelho named him after Dr. Frankenstein's assistant. Clearly someone who was acting as "God" to manipulate the patients to his own ego maniacal ends.


Silencio | 2 comments I thing the experiment was totally unethical, but it actually worked. So we should ask ourselves, does it really matter?


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Tej | 120 comments I agree that the story/message was adolescent and trite. But I also think that sometimes even we jaded dinosaurs need to be reminded of youthful idealism!

Yes, the doctor's experiment was quite transparent. I agree that Coehlo should have found a more creative way to get the point across. Were he a real doctor, this would be unethical, and yes it does matter. The ends do not justify the means. If we allow ourselves to do unethical things because we think they'll be worth it in the end, what happens when the end doesn't turn out like we predicted? Very bad path to go down, I think.

I liked the way that Coehlo injected himself into the story at the beginning. It made me think that the experience the boy went through might have been based on Coehlo's own experience. Does anyone else know his biography?

At any rate, I liked his portrait of Veronika's depression--it seemed fairly accurate to me. However, if this were a realistic novel, I'd say it sends an overly-simplistic message. Others have spoken how clinical depression or schizophrenia cannot be solved by getting a new lease on life, and they're right. But, as a simple parable, I think it's a good reminder that those who love us (even ourselves) don't always know what's best for us. We should live according to our true selves (assuming we know our true selves) and not according to the dictates of others. Again, it's a simple message--perhaps too trite--but good to hear every now and then.


Michelle (fireweaver) | 104 comments Amanda, re your first comment up there, yeah, the sketchy portrait of faux-schizo didn't work for me either. I'm made vaguely uncomfortable by the implication that everyone in the nuthouse is simply choosing to be there, that mental illness is a choice, a way to avoid dealing with the world. I think his portrayal of insanity comes too close to the judgmental layperson's view that "crazy" is an obnoxious inconvenience perpetrated by useless selfish people. and right when I'm about to get fully annoyed at our author, he delves into the genuine social stigma of "crazy" that prevents so many people from getting treatment.

of course, this isn't actually about mental illness at all, any more than it's about suicide. it's really about "go out and live fully!" Kathy, while I don't have a big ol hate for this book, I still totally get where you're coming from. plenty of this was as trite as a successories poster or a hallmark card. and then, in the midst of the bla-bla, there would be a truly beautiful passage that had a genuinely lovely way of stating some simple truth.

I really don't like to see the man behind the curtain pulling the levers, and coelho's use of everyone to be his spouting mouthpieces showed me the underlying mechanics way too much. and yet, at the same time, I liked the breezy, conversational style of the writing.

I neither loved nor hated it, which are the two reactions I'd been led to expect about coelho's work. still on the fence to try the rest, now.


Michelle (fireweaver) | 104 comments oh, and the experiment? horrifically unethical. the first rule of doctoring is to do no harm. giving a patient unnecessary meds has a high risk of harm. doing psych experiments on a patient on a lark, without the oversight of the ethics review board? way f'ing illegal where I come from.

and speaking of the experiment, anyone else feel cheated by the ending? her dying in the not-schizophrenic's arms would have been ever so much more poetic and honest, I think.


message 35: by Nathan (last edited Sep 23, 2010 11:22PM) (new) - rated it 3 stars

Nathan I just finished the book, and while there are some comments I'd like to get back to, I'm wondering what you all think about Paulo Coelho just inserting himself into the beginning of the story.

On the first page she talks about meeting author Paulo Coelho and then he devotes a chapter to say, "hey, I was institutionalized also! I thought about changing my friend's name too. Okay that's all."

I don't know if I'm missing something with there or not, but it put a bad taste in my mouth from the start. I don't know why it's there since the same thing could have been accomplished in an introduction, prologue, or, as in the edition I have, a few pages at the end detailing his time in a mental health facility. Despite this, I really enjoyed the book.

Also, if you get the newer penguin version of the book it has a "PS" at the end. Coelho not only gives a nice synopsis of where he drew inspiration from, but actually includes a person journal excerpt of his experiences with the electroshock treatment. He makes it pretty clear that the boy is him, at least to a large extent.


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Tej | 120 comments Thanks for the info on the PS, Nathan. I liked the personal injection at the beginning. It lent a sense of authenticity to an otherwise fairy-tale-ish story. You're right that he could have managed it in any number of ways, but I think it's fun when storytellers "break the fourth wall."


message 37: by Kathy (new) - rated it 1 star

Kathy I think the injection of the author was intended to make the story seem authentic - like saying 'you can't really question me because I was there and I know better than you'. I think Coelho must have known that this story was far-fetched, so he tried to give it a (in my opinion) spurious authenticity. It's basically a form of cheating. He wants to have his cake and eat it, doesn't he? He wants to say 'this is autobiographical' and also 'this is fiction'. If the novel won't stand up on it's own, without him having to explain it to us, then it doesn't work.


Amanda Kathy wrote: "I think the injection of the author was intended to make the story seem authentic - like saying 'you can't really question me because I was there and I know better than you'. I think Coelho must ha..."

I agree...I actually forgot that Cohelo had put himself into the story at the start (a move I am not fond of...yes, that means you Martin Amis and Bram Stoker!) At first, I just dismissed it as casual arrogance, but I guess he might have been trying to give the novel authority by making it seem like it was based on a true story.

Unfortunately his ruse failed because I was not convinced that this story was in any way factual.


Kristel (kristelh) There is a movement, led by psychiatrist, Thomas Szasz. When I read the book, I thought it had a strong flavor of this movement.


Amanda Kristel wrote: "There is a movement, led by psychiatrist, Thomas Szasz. When I read the book, I thought it had a strong flavor of this movement."

Care to elaborate Kristel? I don't speak for everyone here, but I personally am not familiar with Thomas Szasz.


Melissa i didn't take it as him writing an autobio, but as him drawing on personal experience as many authors do. i found it fun that the author put himself in the story, and it (writing the article that V countered with her note, meeting the other V) made a connection between him and V. Otherwise, how would he know her story?

I don't think he was writing an expose on asylum life. Instead, I think it was a venue for the story. Granted, he probably has a better idea than I do what it's really like. There were grains of truths though- I'm guessing many people who are committed are like those incarcerated- life on the "outside" can be scary, and some convicts land themselves back in jail because they don't know how to assimilate to society. Also, the girl who was depressed- Coelho talked about brain deficiencies that are aided by anti-depressants, she isn't just "fixed" by a new outlook on life.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't believe he was trying to paint a "One Flew Over..." picture any more than he was trying to write a fairy tale. The story is a mixture of both.


Kristel (kristelh) Amanda wrote: "Kristel wrote: "There is a movement, led by psychiatrist, Thomas Szasz. When I read the book, I thought it had a strong flavor of this movement."

Care to elaborate Kristel? I don't speak for ev..."

Thomas Szasz wrote this book. The Myth of Mental Illness: Foundations of a Theory of Personal Conduct in 1961. Szasz argues that mental illness is a social construct created by doctors, and the term can only be used as a metaphor given that an illness must be an objectively demonstrable biological pathology, whereas psychiatric disorders meet none of these criteria. Szasz says that what psychiatrists label mental illness is in fact nothing more than a deviation from the consensus reality or common morality.


Amanda 1961...thats a pretty old book for a young field of science like Psychology and mental health. Modern advances (using brain scanning equiptment) have found neurological differences (and therefore a biological condition) in people with different mental conditions, such as sociopathy. Cohelo even mentions that depression was due to a chemical imbalance in the brain, which becomes unable to receive endorphins. Granted, there was a time when people where labeled insane simply for being different, but I think most countries have moved on from that.


message 44: by Kristel (last edited Sep 25, 2010 12:46PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Kristel (kristelh) Amanda wrote: "1961...thats a pretty old book for a young field of science like Psychology and mental health. Modern advances (using brain scanning equiptment) have found neurological differences (and therefore ..."

I don't think psychology is that young but there has been recent changes with SPECT scans, etc but it's still all theory, even so. I can't draw blood and say yup you have schizophrenia. I am not a follower of Szasz but thought of him when I read the book. He was mentioned when I went through my training (only about 18 years ago) and I believe there is still a strong following of this idea.


Nathan Something I just noticed is the name of the hospital, Vilette. I've noticed more than one person spelling it Villette which (coincidentally?) is a novel by Charlotte Bronte and also a list book.

I just started Villette today because I was struck by the similarity in names, but I'm wondering if anyone can confirm that is is more than mere coincidence. I know the Bronte novel is supposed to be an exploration of a woman's psychology in some respects, but I have no idea if the themes or specifics carry over into Veronika at all. Vilette could have some Solvene roots, but then again so could Villette. It just seems to me that there is something to be learned about one book or the other in the name, and I'm anxious to know what it may be. Anxious enough to ask instead of going back to Villette now to find out for myself. =D


message 46: by Tej (new) - added it

Tej | 120 comments Nathan, I thought the same thing. I suppose only Coehlo himself can really answer the question. I read Villette a few years ago, and couldn't help but think about it while reading Veronika.

Regarding the Szasz discussion. I have to think that the links between hormones/genes/brain damage and "mental illness" have been so well researched by now that it's more than mere theory. You're right, they can't take a test to prove that your seratonin is out of whack--yet. But the fact that you can take hormone-enhancing drugs and change your personality is pretty good circumstantial evidence.

I like reading about cognitive science and have been convinced by authors such as Oliver Sacks and Steven Pinker. In the nature vs. nurture argument, I think both play an important role. But as Pinker says, we really aren't born as "a blank slate." We're born with brains/hormones/genes that already play an important role in who we are--even in how we think.


message 47: by jb (new) - rated it 4 stars

jb Byrkit (jbbyrkit) I read this book a while ago. I had no idea at the time Coehlo was such a well known author (yes I live in my own little germ free bubble).

I really enjoyed this book. As far as the doctor's experiment with V....well I suppose one could argue it is unethical, but I guess that would depend on where one draws the moral/ethical line in the sand (putting the doctor's ego aside). I would argue the point at the cost of saving a life or putting a life back together sometimes a moral or ethical boundary must be crossed. Would V have come to her senses otherwise or would she have stayed in the same state of suicidal tendencies?

Mental illness is a real imbalance of chemicals in the brain....or for some it is just a psychological wall one cannot breach. While I feel there are a number of people who have real mental problems (not associated with aging), I also know quite a few people who are using mental instability as an excuse for drugs, attention, excuses to act badly. In my opinion, mental illness and brain dysfunctions are highly over medicated (hell our society in general is highly over medicated). Every person has their own "demons" to contend with and in some cases therapy is necessary, but I would tend to lean toward less medication and more on hands therapy and help.


Melissa Kristel- you seem like the one to ask this: I've heard of electroshock therapy, but not the insulin one. Is that real? Can you tell me more about it please?


message 49: by Kristel (last edited Sep 29, 2010 06:19AM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Kristel (kristelh) Melissa wrote: "Kristel- you seem like the one to ask this: I've heard of electroshock therapy, but not the insulin one. Is that real? Can you tell me more about it please?"

Electricshock is a ligitimate treatment. It works on the neurotransmitters in the brain and can do wonders. There has been improvements and the side effects are less devastating. ECT is not always recommended enough by people in the field. The expert psychiatrist on this topic is Dr. Fink. He writes great articles and is a good speaker. Insulin shock treatment (used in One Flew Over the Cookoo's Nest) is not okay because insulin shock is very unhealthy to the body but was used. I like the book I Never Promised You a Rose Garden which is considered fiction but is actually based on a real person and a real psychiatrist. They used water therapy in that book.


Michelle Lour | 15 comments I enjoyed the story, for what it was, but had several problems with it as others here. I did not like Coelho inserting himself into the book either by Veronika's fandom or his very own chapter about nothing but pointing out his own personal history and the fictional origins of the story. It seemed very pointless.

It seemed to me that those "cured" by the V experiment weren't mentally ill at all. Two were admittedly cured before V even came into the hospital and the third's mental illness was questional as noted here by several others. All she did was convince them to leave in my opinion, if that.

I got his points about not appreciating life until facing death and the whole "there is no normal", but I was lost on the sexuality points he was trying to make. I understood he was saying we are all inhibited but when V let loose sexually she talks about the filth that came out of her mouth and into her mind so it was almost like he was saying we're all secretly perverse. Maybe that is what he was saying and I did get it, I just didn't buy it.


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