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message 1: by [deleted user] (new)

Lizzy wrote: "During the fifth book (yes, I was rereading AGAIN), when Harry has the vision of Sirius, why didn't he use the mirror that Sirius gave him for Christmas that Sirius gave him?
That would've saved ..."


Hmmmm...... dim witted Harry...


message 2: by Alicia (new)

Alicia (aliciaftw) I think he has some angst about not thinking of that later on.

Kinda weird that Hermione didn't that of it though... Weak part of the plot? That part has always annoyed me.


message 3: by [deleted user] (new)

Huh? I don't get it, Isaac.


message 4: by Alicia (new)

Alicia (aliciaftw) *Ella* wrote: "Huh? I don't get it, Isaac."
This.


Do tell!


colleen the convivial curmudgeon (blackrose13) Did Hermione ever know about the mirror? From what I remember - and, granted, it's been awhile - Sirius gave it to Harry on the sly, and Harry hid it immediately, determined not to use it and be the reason Sirius ended up back in Azkaban. I don't recall Hermione ever knowing about - at least not in that book.


message 6: by Alicia (new)

Alicia (aliciaftw) Colleen ~blackrose~ wrote: "Did Hermione ever know about the mirror? From what I remember - and, granted, it's been awhile - Sirius gave it to Harry on the sly, and Harry hid it immediately, determined not to use it and be t..."

That could be true. I honestly haven't reread the book in a long time, I need to. Can anyone who's read it recently verify?


message 7: by Alicia (new)

Alicia (aliciaftw) Harry's pretty friggin rash.


message 8: by Abi (new)

Abi Lou | 184 comments yes, Harry gets on my nerves in that book. It's like he's going through puberty, but he's about 15! And what's the significance of A.S.P., Isaac?


message 9: by Abi (new)

Abi Lou | 184 comments What do poisonous snakes have to do with Albus Severus? Am I missing something?


message 10: by Abi (new)

Abi Lou | 184 comments yes, I got that, but what is the significance of it?


message 11: by Gail (new)

Gail | 28 comments Serpents or asps or snakes = symbol of slytherin


message 12: by [deleted user] (new)

Weird. I just think he was trying to make himself seem more pathetic. LOL.


message 13: by Pandy, "It unscrews the other way." (last edited Sep 17, 2010 04:59PM) (new)

Pandy | 1575 comments Mod
Some people have taken Albus Severus's initials as an allusion on JKR's part that he'll be in Slytherin, but I don't really think so.

Colleen and Lizzy are right about the mirror - Hermione doesn't know about it. Harry doesn't know what it is exactly until he finds it at the end of the year either. If he had opened it earlier, he would have realized that it was a form of communication that would not have put Sirius in danger, and although he might not have wanted to use it normally, (out of fear of drawing Sirius back to Hogwarts), he would have had an easy way to communicate him after his vision. But as stated above, when Siriuis gives the mirror to him, he's determined not to ever use it. Consequently he puts the wrapped package in the trunk and forgets all about it. I've never seen this as a plot hole by JKR - it just seems as though it is natural behavior for Harry.
(Also, it's interesting that Sirius doesn't mention the mirror when Harry talks to him about his father after seeing Snape's Worst Memory. Obviously that wouldn't work for the plot, but just considering the story, it would have helped Harry later on.)


message 14: by Katniss (new)

Katniss (katniss1986) | 5 comments Lizzy wrote: "What other plot hoels can you find in HP? I mean, I love it, I worship it, et cetera, btu I"m just..."

It's not an inconsistency or plot hole at all. It's dramatic irony. It's an element of writing.


message 15: by Pandy, "It unscrews the other way." (new)

Pandy | 1575 comments Mod
I agree.


message 16: by Alicia (new)

Alicia (aliciaftw) Lizzy wrote: "hmm it'd be interesting if he got into slytherin
but maybe we should make another topic on that.


What other plot hoels can you find in HP? I mean, I love it, I worship it, et cetera, btu I"m just..."


Just google it.
http://www.faqs.org/shareranks/2622,T...

I'm sure most series have some plot holes, must be hard to keep it all straight as a writer.


message 17: by Joe (new)

Joe | 57 comments I'm going to read that site soon, but I noticed that in the movies (aswell as the books I think) Moody's voice changed with the Polyjuice Potion, unless he put on the voice, and felt no reason to keep the voice when the potion was taken from him. (As well as the veritaserum stopping him from faking his voice in the book aswell.)


message 18: by [deleted user] (new)

I don't know if anyone answered the initial question about the mirror, but I think when Sirius gave it to Harry, it was wrapped. Harry never opened it b/c he thought he would never use whatever it was, so as not to worry Sirius and cause him to do something reckless. By the time Harry did open it and realize what it was, Sirius had already been killed. I'm pretty sure that's what happened, b/c I remember thing, "If only you had opened the gift when he gave it to you!" Hope this helps!


message 19: by Ruby (new)

Ruby | 6 comments I love all the symbolism and foreshadowing Jo uses. Remember Prisoner of Azkaban? Trelawney predicts that when 13 sit down to eat, the first will rise to be the first to die, and McGonagall makes some joke about a mad axeman in the entrance hall? In Order of the Phoenix, the thirteen of them sat down to eat. Sirius was first to rise. When Arthur Weasley was in the hospital, there was a sign stating the name of the ward. I can't remember exactly what it said, but if you line it up like it would be on a sign and read the first word in each row it would say, "Creature Dangerous Dai Serious." There are many more Sirius death foreshadowing moments. Also erised spelled backwards is desire and the inscription reads "I show not your face but your hearts desire." The Tale of the Three Brothers. "One died for Power, one died for lost love, and one greeted death like an old friend." This accurately describes Voldemort, Snape, and Harry. Almost all of the names Jo chose are symbolic, which is one of my favorite things she did. Sirius is the name of a constellation in the shape of a dog. Albus means "pure" or "white." The name Dumbledore means bumblebee because she said she could picture him wandering about the castle humming to himself. And my personal favorite is Voldemort which means "flight from death" in french.


message 20: by Horcruxiatus (new)

Horcruxiatus (ATeam) | 28 comments I've noticed tiny, only tiny facts, like how in the Hogwarts song they say, "or young with scabby knees." which could refer to the scar under Dumbledores left knee that he mentions to McGonagall in the first book. :3


message 21: by [deleted user] (new)

nah i think its just a joke.


message 22: by [deleted user] (new)

Ruby wrote: "I love all the symbolism and foreshadowing Jo uses. Remember Prisoner of Azkaban? Trelawney predicts that when 13 sit down to eat, the first will rise to be the first to die, and McGonagall makes s..."

but i agree with that.


message 23: by asiyah (new)

asiyah WHY DIDN'T HERMIONE USE THE FREAKING TIME-TURNER TO GO BACK IN TIME AND KILL VOLDEMORT?!*throws book across the room* IT WOULD'VE SAVED SO MUCH TROUBLE, TIME AND PEOPLE!!


message 24: by Lord Percy (new)

Lord Percy | 150 comments I think there was a complication though, otherwise, JKR wouldn't have done it the way she did. :)


message 25: by asiyah (new)

asiyah Nice to see you again! Been quite a while.

And yeah, it's just I wish they weren't dead.


message 26: by Lord Percy (new)

Lord Percy | 150 comments Oh, I agree. :) And I'm in a heck of a lot of groups, so yeah, I've been on, but not really in this one cause I'm a mod in another. I've been really busy at school, too.


message 27: by asiyah (new)

asiyah School, you affect GR WAY too much.


message 28: by Lord Percy (new)

Lord Percy | 150 comments Yeah! XD


message 29: by asiyah (new)

asiyah It should just go away.


message 30: by Lord Percy (new)

Lord Percy | 150 comments Then we'd be illiterate and we wouldn't have been able to understand what Harry Potter is telling us! All that goodness, gone to waste! No, it can't be! I shan't have it! And why the heck am I having a short monologue, I have no idea!


message 31: by asiyah (new)

asiyah Me neither! But yeah, that's all true.*sighs*


message 32: by Lord Percy (new)

Lord Percy | 150 comments Yeah, if we didn't have school and we attempted to read Harry Potter, we'd be like, "What's an owl?!"


message 33: by asiyah (new)

asiyah We couldn't even READ the word owl. Or any of the other words.


message 34: by Lord Percy (new)

Lord Percy | 150 comments Maybe some . . . Nah, forget it, you're right, we wouldn't be able to read anything. XD


message 35: by asiyah (new)

asiyah I STILL read that as "Ex-Dee".


message 36: by Lord Percy (new)

Lord Percy | 150 comments Nice, well, think out of the box and look at it as a face.


message 37: by Emma (new)

Emma Hardman | 53 comments I found that that along with Voldemort meaning flight from death, Malfoy means bad faith.


message 38: by Annalisa (new)

Annalisa (goodreadsannalisa) Ruby wrote: "The Tale of the Three Brothers. "One died for Power, one died for lost love, and one greeted death like an old friend." This accurately describes Voldemort, Snape, and Harry. "

Very cool fact that I hadn't realized before.


message 39: by Nina (new)

Nina Isaac wrote: "Any one else notice what the initials of Albus Severus Potter spell?(I'll give you a hint A.S.P.)"

what's significant about A.S.P.?


message 40: by Nina (new)

Nina Giveronsomeluv wrote: "WHY DIDN'T HERMIONE USE THE FREAKING TIME-TURNER TO GO BACK IN TIME AND KILL VOLDEMORT?!*throws book across the room* IT WOULD'VE SAVED SO MUCH TROUBLE, TIME AND PEOPLE!!"

yeah honestly. so many people could've been saved had the time turner been used.


message 41: by Pandy, "It unscrews the other way." (new)

Pandy | 1575 comments Mod
NinaJ wrote: "Isaac wrote: "Any one else notice what the initials of Albus Severus Potter spell?(I'll give you a hint A.S.P.)"

what's significant about A.S.P.?"


The letters spell "asp," a word used to refer to snakes. I don't take this as foreshadowing that he'll be in Slytherin, but others have speculated about it.


message 42: by Yuseyz (new)

Yuseyz | 75 comments NinaJ wrote: "Giveronsomeluv wrote: "WHY DIDN'T HERMIONE USE THE FREAKING TIME-TURNER TO GO BACK IN TIME AND KILL VOLDEMORT?!*throws book across the room* IT WOULD'VE SAVED SO MUCH TROUBLE, TIME AND PEOPLE!!"

y..."

well didn't she say in one of the books to hagrid thta she couldn't take care of magical cratures because they had destroyed the whole stock when they went to the ministry? he asked her about it . maybe in the 6th book.


message 43: by Horcruxiatus (new)

Horcruxiatus (ATeam) | 28 comments Asmaa wrote: "nah i think its just a joke."

=.= No its a tiny fact. Hmmph.
>_>
<_<


message 44: by Michelle (new)

Michelle (runninginair) You also have to think about how much would have changed if they had gone back in time to kill Voldemort, otherwise, I'm sure Dumbledore or someone from the Ministry would have done it a long time ago. That's why time-turners were used so sparingly. Any wizard messing with time can do horrible things on accident. And as far as the mirror goes, I can understand Harry not thinking of it. If I thought my mom or dad was dying, I wouldn't really stop to think, "Hm. I should use this mirror that I don't even know what it does." What DOES bother me, though, is that when Sirius is telling Harry that owls and fires are so risky, why didn't Sirius ever suggest the mirror? He obviously knew what it was.


message 45: by Yuseyz (new)

Yuseyz | 75 comments i agree with Michelle about the messing up time and stuff. Even if they thought of it they probably wouldn't do it.


message 46: by Oela (new)

Oela (readingroy) Ruby wrote: "I love all the symbolism and foreshadowing Jo uses. Remember Prisoner of Azkaban? Trelawney predicts that when 13 sit down to eat, the first will rise to be the first to die, and McGonagall makes s..."

i absolutely adore u after this engaging post!=)
cheers!


message 47: by Natalie Joy (new)

Natalie Joy (yoyoma30) | 48 comments lol, it shows how smart Professor Trelawney is... :D


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