Mathematics&Philosophy&Astronomy discussion

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dont you think the world is a pre-planned world

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message 1: by Morteza (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:27PM) (new)

Morteza | 15 comments Mod
isn't it real, that we haven't got authority in our life, everything is by force? God has created us with his own plans?
The deeds, which in every seconds of our life we do, all are not done by us, they are all the volition of God, or not? I am definitely wrang!? everything that we do, is just our will, not someone else. I think, I could give you a hint, so it would be a good feeling to know your ideas, so I want you all to express your opinions in any aspects, of course in a RATIONAL way, and about language, it would be a great discussion, if the all members understand what you mean, so its better to be in english.

thank you!
M.N


message 2: by Deena (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:29PM) (new)

Deena | 7 comments Haha.. try reading my holy Qur'an and you'll.. i would say.. revelated..


message 3: by SYED (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:29PM) (new)

SYED | 6 comments Actually now a days people don't remain believe on QURAN that is symbol of the day of judgement.Actually now a days people have changed their beleives too much i told you there are about 73 sects in ISLAM which have different believes i told u even shia are divided in four sects every have different beleives.How can u expect that u will get this the right answer ever person is trying to eleborate QURAN according to his own mind set and ideas.I give u a very simple example in one sect of SUNNI people it is haram to make pictures on the other side shia people like to make pictures.

The second example is from the shia sect too the people live in IRAN feel proud to make pictures of their IMAM ALI(A.S) while same shia sect people live in PAKISTAN consider it haram to make the picture of any IMAM.
But brother think GOD can never do anything without any consideration or in vain.

So don't ask such questions which make such discriminations in the group.


message 4: by Deena (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:31PM) (new)

Deena | 7 comments First of all,you see...it's a wrong statement if you said "people don't believe in Qur'an" cause I'm one of the people and I believe in it. And if you learn a little math, those statement is easily attacked.

Second... you absolutely missed my point, it's not the now that we called 'Islam' that I'm talking about..it's the qur'an. don't you read the topic, brother??

Third... it's only some of the people who devided the religion and not the religion itself. Why don't you try and see the resemblance rather than the difference?? (although it's totally out of the topic..)

And fourth.. I'm actually a sister..brother(and I'm not gonna take that as a compliment)


message 5: by Radit malasmembaca (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:37PM) (new)

Radit malasmembaca | 1 comments oh great... one more debate about philosophy topic where the people who talks doesn't want to leave all their attributes behind just for the moment for the sake of an objective debate... you see, when you bring any doctrine or religious stuff into philosophy, then i'll say the debate is as good as done... philosophy and religion just doesn't get along well you know...


message 6: by Joseph (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:38PM) (new)

Joseph | 6 comments For a long time physicists thought if they could only do physics well enough, we could predict the outcome of all chemical and physical interactions, and we could predict the future. But as it turns out, heinsenbergs uncertainty principle shows we cannot know all of the information we need to in order to have the answer to those equations. The future is definitely unknown to us, at least, whether or not God already knows it.

Joe


message 7: by Dyah (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:38PM) (new)

Dyah to radit : "philosophy and religion just doesn't get along well", I don't agree. There are people in all religions who combine the two and don't have problems with it. There are sufis in Islam, the avatars in Hindu, etc.. We'll just have to keep an open mind in this kind of debate..

to Joseph : the last sentence, I couldn't agree more.

About Morteza's question, I think everyone will answer according to what they believe: their faiths, religions, their backgrounds. A religious person would probably answer yes, this world is a pre-planned world, by God. An atheist would probably say otherwise. And so on.

I personally think that free will is precious gift God gave us, and should be used accordingly. How would you treat a precious thing? Careful.

"When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That is my religion" Abe Lincoln.


message 8: by Héctor (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:38PM) (new)

Héctor No, I don´t think that. It´s impossible to think. The opposite also. The real is... impossible (Lacan).


message 9: by Brett (new)

Brett Featherstone-Price | 3 comments Morteza and everyone,
I see you are all familiar with Middle Eastern philosophers and practices. I wonder if you have ever heard of a book out there called Zhuan Falun (one called Falun Gong is a great introduction before jumping into Zhuan Falun)? It is the explaination of the universe's law, to be True, Kind and Tolerant. It gave me great understanding of my own will and the role of the divine, intelligent universe in my life. Best of all, the principals he puts forth have turned into tangible and beneficial reality again and again right in front of me. This is not philospohy but science. The most universal of these principals are Truth, Kindness, Tolerance. Its a great read for those of any faith and for skeptics too.

In it, he desribes the true causes of so many aspects of our lives including health and misfortune. He decribes the human body at the layers smaller than sub-atomic ("micro-cosmic") that our scientific intruments have not even come close to observing. These particles, he says, play more of a role in our lives than we might realize.

Here's an excerpt: "The beings in this dimension are different from the beings in all other dimensions in the universe. The beings in this
dimension can’t see the beings in other dimensions, and they can’t see how the universe
really is, so it’s just like these people have dropped into a realm of delusion. If they want
to get healed, get rid of adversity, or eliminate their karma, then they’ve got to cultivate and return to their original, true selves. That’s how all the different cultivation ways see it. A person should return to his original, true self—that’s actually the true purpose of being human. So, once somebody wants to cultivate, they’d say his Buddha-nature has
come out. That thought is the most precious, because he wants to return to his original,
true self, he wants to break out of this level of ordinary people. (pg 3, Zhuan Falun, 2003 translation)

You can read it for free in lots of different languages at www.falundafa.org

I hope you find it good!
-Brett


message 10: by Rui T. (new)

Rui T. Romano Almeida (rtra) | 2 comments The top poster asks for a rational opinions on the most perplexing concept of philosophy of the mind, and starts it with the non-naturalistic concept of a deity's /desígnio/.
Great.

We know that god[1] plays dice at the plank's table, and that there's a lot of chaos in the deterministic game table of Newton and Einstein, so we've a pretty good chance of not being mere puppets on a finished play, instead, we're rewriting the play constantly, with every smile, every kiss, and every blink of an eye.

Our well-behaved universe is so intricate and complex, that I, or god, cannot say in what mindset I'll be next month.

This is the only satisfactory answer I could produce to myself.


Footnotes:
[1] read god, understand nature.


message 11: by Peter (new)

Peter | 2 comments The question is not whether the watch has a maker, but whether the watch can know it's maker.

The universe is. It is necessarily intricate and complex. If it were not just so perfectly complex and interdependent, it would be terribly complex in some altogether different way. A simple and flawed universe could not exist forever; it would naturally tend toward equilibrium, this state that we call an intelligent design.

Whether the celestial clockwork was set in motion by a divine hand, you may accept as an article of faith, but the design of our universe cannot be a proof of the gods.


message 12: by Brett (new)

Brett Featherstone-Price | 3 comments I put these on the Proving God with Physics discussion and thought people here would find them interesting, too - Einstein's statements throughout his life, coming to later feel divine presence and then Newton (though not presented in that order). The quote from Einstein when he spoke with Salaman gives me the chills up my spine!


"The renowned scientist Newton, in his seminal book Principles of Mathematics published in 1678, explained in detail the principles of mechanics, tidal formation, and planetary movement, and calculated the movements of the solar system. Newton, who was so eminently accomplished, said repeatedly that his book offered a mere description of surface phenomena, and that he absolutely did not dare to speak about the real meaning of the ultimate God in creating the universe. In the second edition of Principles of Mathematics, in expressing his faith Newton wrote, "This most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful being… As a blind man has no idea of colors, so we have no idea of the manner by which the all-wise God perceives and understands all things."
from The Nine Commentaries, Part IV, published by the Epoch Times at www.ninecommentaries.com


In an 1955 interview with Esther Salaman, a young physics student, Albert Einstein said of his curiosity about the cosmos: "The years of ancient searching in the dark, with their intense longing, their alternations of confidence and exhaustion and the final emergence into the light — only those who experience it can understand it. I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details."

Personal experiences of heaven are hard to deny, even if you're Einstein. -B
After Yehudi Menuhin performed a violin recital of Beethoven, Bach, and Brahms with the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra in 1929, Einstein was reported to be so taken that he rushed into Menuhin's dressing room and exclaimed, "Jetzt weiss ich, dass es einen Gott im Himmel gibt" ("Now I know that there is a God in heaven.")

Einstein wrote in a 1927 letter
"My religiosity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality. Morality is of the highest importance — but for us, not for God."

excerpts from Einstein's God
from Speaking of Faith on American Public Radio http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.or...


message 13: by Morteza (new)

Morteza | 15 comments Mod
I'm Morteza, I can prove that we all are just planned by our GOD! God is our controler! everything is in the hands of God! if our believe that God knows everything prove it to me that we have the ability to decide!?
have you got anything to say about this, I'm telling this to everyone! Muslims, non Muslims, Heathens,....




message 14: by KB (new)

KB | 1 comments free will in a controlled environment


message 15: by Blacksmith (new)

Blacksmith | 2 comments Alright, Morteza, You say we are by god, Its all pre-planned, Tell me then what was teh creator thinking when he plans the death of a kid who was just some minutes old (he doesnt even feel all love forget about knowing god that comes after you learn the language & listen to people), But a religious rioter In my State is 83 years old daily having royal food &white wine ?
You really think its his plan ??? Whatever happens to the feelings of The mother that bears the child for 9 months, Whatever happens to the people who lose their relatives in A religious Genocide?


message 17: by Yoel (new)

Yoel Ben David | 1 comments Blacksmith, you are assuming that your value of good or evil, justice and injustice are superior to anyone else's or at least you assume that we should agree. However where do your beliefs in right and wrong come from? How did you decide that what you know is true?
While you deem any God unjust because He allows evil to continue in the world you are, on a philosophical level, standing on pretty weak ground because you have nothing other than your own opinion with which to judge....


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