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surrealism

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message 1: by Monica (new)

Monica | 909 comments Salador Dali meets Walt Disney
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8ClxS...


message 2: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 1897 comments Gack. Disney can ruin anything when they put their minds to it, can't they? All Dali's wonderful creepiness with its layers of meaning turned to kitsch by the inclusion of a "lovely" maiden and treacly music.

Want to know what I really think?


message 3: by Heather, Moderator (new)

Heather | 8353 comments I agree with Ruth. I wonder what Dali thought of this?


message 4: by Monica (new)

Monica | 909 comments He probably picked the music!


message 5: by Jonathan (last edited Sep 07, 2010 09:30AM) (new)

Jonathan Lopez | 257 comments I tend to doubt that Dalí would have minded this at all. He was a very aggressive assimilator of Kitsch and a shameless self-promoter--to the point that his commercialism became a kind of performance art.

There's a show of late Dalí currently at the High Museum in Atlanta, GA. Some of the items there must have seemed like utterly cynical junk to a high modernist sensibility in the '50s and '60s, a betrayal of Dalí's best work from earlier in the century. Now, it honestly looks like Dalí may simply have been anticipating later trends, such as we see today with Jeff Koons, but doing so with a larger public forum, including TV appearances, movies, etc.


message 6: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 1897 comments I take that "layers of meaning" comment back. I think it's within human nature rather than within Dali's intent, that we endlessly puzzle out his work. Because the human mind abhors meaninglessness, we assign a kind of wondering, shifting series of meanings to his work.

Maybe I'm influenced because I know the source, but to me, Disney's kitsch differs entirely from Dali's. Disney seems to buy it hook, line and tomato, while Dali is using it from a more cynical POV.


message 7: by Carol (new)

Carol (goodreadscomcarolann) | 1140 comments Disney and Dali, that’s a strange pair.

Dali loved to be the center of attention, and was more concerned with cultivating his image than anything else (except Gala). Breton became disgusted by Dali "accusing him of excessive self-presentation and financial greediness."

Is the St. Petersburg Dali museum still under construction? I went in Dec. 09 and they had very little exhibiting space (but a huge shop to buy things --).

I have been working on the children & family programs. This month our theme is "Get surreal." I think it will be challenging to do with 4-8 year olds. I found a book (Dali and the Path of Dreams) that looks like it would be perfect for that age group but no libraries in CT have it. It's on Amazon, new book is listed for $210.10? Crazy! (There are used copies).

http://www.walkerbooks.com.au/Books/D...


message 8: by Monica (last edited Sep 07, 2010 06:58PM) (new)

Monica | 909 comments Get surreal. Love it. I think many kids will be able to, let us know what happens.

I'd wanted to put the Surrealist Manifesto on our reading poll but accidentally left it out.
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I got turned on to surrealism in high school, un chien andalou, etc., and never lost an appreciation for it.


message 9: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 1897 comments When I was an art undergrad I took an art history course in Surrealism. Instead of writing papers, we undertook as a joint project the re-creation of the famous Paris Surrealism show. 1933? Something like that. Complete with Rainy Taxi, the table with human legs (what was it called?), Object to be Destroyed, the famous fur-lined teacup...

I burnt my butt sitting on top of an old wrecker of a car in the San Bernardino sun, painting it black to turn it into Rainy Taxi. Most fun.


message 10: by Heather, Moderator (new)

Heather | 8353 comments

WASHINGTON, DC.- English chemist Stanley William Hayter's innovative prints—from the surrealist works of the 1930s to vividly colored abstractions of his later years—reveal his remarkable talent and range of success in the medium of printmaking.

Stanley William Hayter (1901–1988)
Born in England, Hayter studied chemistry and geology at King's College, London, and subsequently spent three years working for an oil company. He pursued his long-standing desire to become an artist in 1926 when he moved to Paris, took up with the surrealists, painted, and learned printmaking—in particular, the age-old technique of line engraving. Hayter was captivated by the surrealists' dream­like imagery and their reliance on the subconscious mind to spur creativity.

In Paris in 1927 Hayter set up a print workshop, Atelier 17, where he invited artists to investigate the expressive and technical potential of engraving and etching. With the outbreak of World War II, Hayter joined the exodus to New York, where he taught at the New School for Social Research and reestablished Atelier 17 in lower Manhattan. European surrealists found a community of émigrés there while American artists were inspired by the European avant-garde.

Hayter returned to Paris in 1950 and was making inventive abstractions by the early 1960s that rival the visual brilliance of op art, many imbued with electric, even dissonant, color and dazzling moiré patterns. Hayter was knighted and received the Légion d'honneur in 1951, and was chosen to represent Great Britain at the 1958 Venice Biennale. He became Chevalier des Arts et des Lettres in 1967.

Stanley William Hayter - British, 1901-88 Bouleau, 1976 - Color etching and softground etching on BFK Rives paper plate: 49.8 x 39.7 cm/sheet: 76.2 x 57 cm. Gift of Jacob KainenAmong the first works in the show are Rue de la Villette and Père Lachaise (1930), from the portfolio Paysages urbains, which reflect Hayter's early response to surrealism, and Combat (1936), created at the outbreak of the Spanish Civil War, in which Hayter uses tangled, whiplash lines to suggest the frenzy of warriors and horses in battle.

Myth of Creation (1940) is an example of Hayter's experimentation with plaster reliefs, which were cast from the same engraved and etched copper plates he used to make prints. After the work was cast, he carved into the plaster to enhance its three-dimensionality.

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Myth of Creation 1940

Centauresse (1944) is Hayter's first multicolor print using a single copper plate, a method he called "simultaneous color print­ing." Instead of working in the customary method with multiple plates, each inked in a different color, he printed multiple colors using a single plate in one run through the press. This group of five impressions illustrates Hayter's gradual development of the plate and his investigations with color.



Shoal Green (1967) is representative of Hayter's late abstract style in which he rendered elements of the natural world, such as light, water, and motion. He continued to make prints until the end of his life. His line was less vigorous after 1986 but no less elegant or expressive, as seen in his final print, Downward (1988).




message 11: by Monica (last edited Sep 20, 2010 11:52AM) (new)

Monica | 909 comments Bouleau has a decidedly psychedelic look to it.

What do you expect it was 1967.


message 12: by Carol (new)

Carol (goodreadscomcarolann) | 1140 comments Very interesting -- I'm not familiar with his work. I really like the Myth of Creation.

I have my "surreal" programs this Saturday. (I’m trying not to get too anxious over it!) Our past themes were easier. I find that surrealism is challenging for adults sometimes, I pray that I will be more successful with the children.

For the kids, I'm going to focus on "dreams" and "imagination". The children’s program (4 years and up) requires that I read a book and relate it to a painting. I am having a hard time finding books and am tempted to make my own this week and laminate it/bind it at Staples. Plus I find that since we all sit on the floor -- I am limited to “large” paintings. This is what I'm doing . . .

BK on Dali’s childhood. This painting has many similar images in the book.
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BK: none. I thought I would contrast the realistic images in Dali’s work with Miro's biomorphic shapes (use words like "natural" like leaf shape or banana shape. All shape books I found deal with geometric shapes).
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BK: book features an event in Magritte's childhood where a hot air balloon that landed on his house and had to be removed down the stairs and out the door. Compare Magritte’s The Tempest (color, realistic images) with
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BK: none. Jean Arp work below (again no book, tempted to make my own and laminate it Staples.)
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Family program artworks--
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Roberto Matta, Prescience, 1939

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Max Ernst, After the Rain, 1940

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Yves Tanguay, Five Strangers, 1941

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de Chirico, The Endless Voyage,

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Pierre Roy, Electrification of the Country

If anyone wants to give me suggestions (like replace one artwork for adults for kids), any comments, etc. I will be very happy to receive them. Thank you!


message 13: by Monica (last edited Sep 20, 2010 12:45PM) (new)

Monica | 909 comments Kids of all ages love Joseph Cornell, though maybe you haven't selected his work cause he was not strictly a surrealist. What about magrite's train coming through the fireplace? And his bowler hat /green apples they're iconic images. Kids should see Dali's driping clock. They have to start somewhere.


message 14: by Carol (new)

Carol (goodreadscomcarolann) | 1140 comments Good ideas -- but our Joseph Cornell work is not on display.
And I cannot show other museums works of art unless they are on loan in our museum.

But thank you for the suggestions Monica!


message 15: by Monica (new)

Monica | 909 comments Oh I was just thinking off the top of my head but that's good -- you have the clout to get the cornell out of hiding! Especially considering your topic.


message 16: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 1897 comments I got to see some nice Cornells last weekend when I visited the Walker Art Center in Minneapolis.


untitled (Canis Major constellation)
Joseph Cornell
circa 1960
wood, glass, cork, metal, sand, paper, paint
Walker Art Center


Andromeda (Sand Fountain)
Joseph Cornell
1953 - 1956
wood, glass, wine glass, paper collage, sand, paint


Eclipsing Binary, Algol, with Magnitude Changes
Joseph Cornell
circa 1965
wood, glass, clay, rubber, steel, paper, paint
Walker Art Center


untitled (pink ballet case)
Joseph Cornell
circa 1942
wood, glass, dried rose, leaf, shells, cloth, plastic, mica, cardboard


message 17: by Monica (new)

Monica | 909 comments Absolutely to die for. And to think they were going for $200 in the early '70s. Thanks very much Ruth!!!!!!


message 18: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 1897 comments Omigawd, $200? I could have bought one!


message 19: by Pete (new)

Pete daPixie | 52 comments Canis Major looks like a cat!
All eclipsing binaries exhibit changes in magnitude.
Andromeda in chains waiting for Perseus, I'll buy that. Sold to the cynical pixie for $20.


message 20: by Carol (new)

Carol (goodreadscomcarolann) | 1140 comments My surrealist tour was a bigger hit with the adults than the kids (they just wanted to make their art project -- dreamscapes). I was surprised that the majority of my adults were not from CT -- NYC, Boston, Italy, Norway and Poland. Very busy, lots of people and loud! But a lot of fun!


message 21: by Monica (last edited Sep 25, 2010 07:22PM) (new)

Monica | 909 comments You 'go girl' as they say!!! What did the museum say about putting the Cornell on display??


message 22: by Carol (new)

Carol (goodreadscomcarolann) | 1140 comments Not now.

We were already operating with a very small staff but now we lost our American curator to the MET and our European Decorative Arts curator is out on an emergency leave of absence.


message 23: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) My daughter got an Escher calendar some time ago, and we were just amazed at his drawings, does this count as surrealism, I know it isn't Salvador Dali or the others.


message 24: by Monica (new)

Monica | 909 comments I think Escher's work is surreal. That's my opinion. His work can be categorized as graphic illustration. He worked primarily in black and white, what in the business is called "line art". Escher's work could be called 'op'art--because of repetition, spatial tricks and biomorphic movement. Definitely Escher's work is an art of optical illusion.
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message 25: by Robin (new)

Robin (goodreadscomtriviagoddessl) yes it is amazing what he could accomplish.


message 26: by Heather, Moderator (new)

Heather | 8353 comments I 'like' the The Masters of the Surrealism and the Magic Realism on Facebook and sometimes I think it posts something very interesting. I just discovered (and maybe I'm behind the times!) George Underwood. Is anyone familiar with him?

George Underwood was born in 1947. George joined Beckenham Art School in 1963.

At art school George Underwood became more and more interested in music. As a result he pursued a career in the music world. Along with life long friend David Bowie he made one record (The King Bees ) and also a solo record under the name Calvin James.

After deciding that the music business was not for him, George returned to art studies and then worked in design studios as an illustrator. Initially he specialised in fantasy, horror and science fiction book covers.

Many of George Underwood's colleagues in the music business asked him to do various art works for them. This led to George becoming a freelance artist. Art work for the first T Rex album and later David Bowie’s Hunky Dory and Ziggy Stardust album covers established him as a leading and creative art illustrator.

Over this period George produced literally hundreds of book covers, LP and CD covers, advertisements, portraits and drawings.

At the start of the 1970’s George Underwood started painting in oils. His paintings were influenced at first by the Viennese School of Fantastic Realism –artists which included Ernst Fuchs, Rudolph Hausner and Eric Brauer. George regarded them as contemporary visionaries like Bruegel and Bosch. He was fascinated by their imaginative visions.

Imagination is the key word in George's paintings. He rarely uses live models nowadays, prefering to invent people who inhabit their own personal world.

George Underwood paintings are held in many private art collections. One of his art collectors, David Bowie, says: ‘George has, over the years, refined his work to the point where I would put him among the top figurative painters coming out of the UK right now. There’s a sublime isolation surrounding his subjects that really touches the viewer, the figures being both heroic and vulnerable simultaneously. There’s a timeless element in the choice of subject matter that overlaps with the mythical world of Odd Nerdrum, say. Now that a huge shift to painting is taking place, I would expect to see George’s name pushed further and further to the front’.

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message 27: by Monica (new)

Monica | 909 comments One of the first televised interviews Bowie gave was after his Ziggy Stardust period when he became more down-to-earth in the "Young American" phase of his career. He talked with Dick Cavett about having gone to art school and that being his first love.


Rick-Founder JM CM BOOK CLUB  | 57 comments Heather wrote: "

WASHINGTON, DC.- English chemist Stanley William Hayter's innovative prints—from the surrealist works of the 1930s to vividly colored abstractions of his later years—reveal his remarkable talent ..."


Heather- wonderful downloads of those pics- is there something wrong with me!! I simply cannot appreciate the surrealist movement..it is too undefined and didactic- simply putting alot of color on a canvas is not art to me (mind you I clarified TO ME)
Underwood- I do like- his use of detail shows rare technical skills- but Hayter's works to me lack that technical skill that separates artists that can truly create from those that simply put paint on canvas- I know I am very focused on technical skills- but I honestly feel that many try to assign greater meaning to a piece of art to "show that they get it while the masses are unable to". I fully expect to get pummelled for this post! but perhaps a post about the elitism of modern art might be interesting.


message 29: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 1897 comments Perhaps it would help if you knew that the Surrealists were heavily influenced by the ideas of Sigmund Freud. "Surrealism" means "beyond realism." The Surrealists, for the most part, paint realistically. But they take us beyond the realism of the possible, into the realism of psychological states and dreams.

You cannot say SR is not art. That's like saying calculus is not math. It is art, and has been accepted as such for over 80 years.

You certainly can say you don't like it or understand it though. Perhaps if you made an effort to understand it, you might grow to like it.


message 30: by Rick-Founder JM CM BOOK CLUB (last edited Feb 06, 2011 05:07PM) (new)

Rick-Founder JM CM BOOK CLUB  | 57 comments Ruth wrote: "Perhaps it would help if you knew that the Surrealists were heavily influenced by the ideas of Sigmund Freud. "Surrealism" means "beyond realism." The Surrealists, for the most part, paint realis..."

excellant points all! I am certainly trying to open my mind to new ideas- what I post- is my thoughts now- but that does not mean that my mind is not open to expansion!


message 31: by Ruth (last edited Feb 06, 2011 05:39PM) (new)

Ruth | 1897 comments Rick wrote: "but that does not mean that my mind is not open to expansion!,..."

I'm glad to hear that. I can recommend

Art History Art History by Marilyn Stokstad as a very readable 2 volume set on general art history. If it had been available when I was teaching I would have used it for my Art History course.


message 32: by Okpara (last edited Feb 07, 2011 08:50AM) (new)

Okpara | 4 comments Surrealism is a concept of balance just as abstract art is. It's the unification of opposing forces within a composition that creates balance or the juxtaposition of elements by inclusion of th laws of the opposites.I would recommend the reading of Wassily Kandinsky's book, "Concerning the Spiritual In Art" (1910). Art is all about creating balance( warm-cool,large-small,light-dark,et; which Surrealism creates though positioning real with the unreal.


Rick-Founder JM CM BOOK CLUB  | 57 comments Okpara wrote: "Surrealism is a concept of balance just as abstract art is. It's the unification of opposing forces within a composition that creates balance or the juxtaposition of elements by inclusion of th law..."

Ruth wrote: "Rick wrote: "but that does not mean that my mind is not open to expansion!,..."

I'm glad to hear that. I can recommend

Art HistoryArt History by Marilyn Stokstad as a very readable..."


much appreciated!!


message 34: by John (new)

John Karr (karr) | 76 comments Enjoyed the Dali / Disney cartoon, though I was a little baffled at the mix. Disney must have admired Dali, is all I can think of. A lot of the Dali work I've seen is blatantly sexual, so Disney had to choose carefully. That the ultimate family entertainment mogul would pick some Dali themes is perhaps a testament to his interests.

As for Dali, I agree with an early poster here that he surely would have enjoyed the attention.

I have a book on Dali: Salvador Dali 1904-1989 (Big Series Art) by Robert Descharnes that helped me write scenes of Purgatory for a dark fantasy novel.

Next to Van Gogh, Dali is a favorite.


Rick-Founder JM CM BOOK CLUB  | 57 comments Ruth wrote: "Gack. Disney can ruin anything when they put their minds to it, can't they? All Dali's wonderful creepiness with its layers of meaning turned to kitsch by the inclusion of a "lovely" maiden and t..."

what is the basis of surrealism?


message 36: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 1897 comments Rick wrote: what is the basis of surrealism?"

Surreal means beyond the real. For the most part the Surrealists painted realistically, but with the fanciful abandon that we encounter in dreams. They were highly influenced by the ideas of Freud.


Rick-Founder JM CM BOOK CLUB  | 57 comments Ruth wrote: "Rick wrote: what is the basis of surrealism?"

Surreal means beyond the real. For the most part the Surrealists painted realistically, but with the fanciful abandon that we encounter in dreams. The..."


thanks!


message 38: by Benjamin (new)

Benjamin sultzstein | 1 comments I'm a newbie here but I'm enjoying the conversation and thought I would say hi. I like Surrealism, although I don't always feel like I "get" it.


message 39: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 1897 comments To "get" Surrealism, you just have to accept the irrational. You know, like when you're dreaming and there's an elephant in the garage, and you just accept it and start looking around for something to feed it.


message 40: by Konrad (new)

Konrad R (krad) Monica wrote: "Salador Dali meets Walt Disney
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8ClxS..."


The question I'm asking. What if Dali founded Disney and it worked?


message 41: by John (new)

John Karr (karr) | 76 comments A Dali World like Disney World but geared toward the Surreal might work today, but I doubt in the '50s and '60's.


message 42: by John (last edited Feb 24, 2011 01:54PM) (new)

John David (nicholasofautrecourt) Today is a stretch, too, seeing as how I don't even want to guess at the percentage of people walking down the street would be able to tell you who Dali was.


message 43: by Ed (new)

Ed Smiley | 871 comments Let's see there could be a melting watches ride, sort of like the mad tea party teacups ride.

Un Chien Andalou could be a ride like Pirates of the Carribean, it's at night, you go under a moon, a cloud slices across the moon, you turn a corner and a guy swings at you with a straight razor, you duck under a dead donkey on a piano, and a woman sucks you toes.

They sell obscenely shaped foods.

A guy dressed in an admiral's uniform goes around dumping litter on the ground.

The parade on Main Street USA (which stands for underground sewer access) features green giraffes on fire, mermaids carrying blunderbusses, Model Ts driving backwards, and hundreds of ferrets dressed in tiny Iron Chef uniforms who panic when one of the Model Ts backfires, fan out though the crowds and run up skirts and trouser legs.


message 44: by Heather, Moderator (new)

Heather | 8353 comments You're great, Ed! What an imagination! I think I would be at least interested in some sort of amusement park like that, let alone enjoy it.


message 45: by John (new)

John David (nicholasofautrecourt) Let's leave Un Chien Andalou to Dali and Bunuel, who did it best.


message 46: by Monica (new)

Monica | 909 comments Sorry, John. That's not nice. Ed gave us a taste of his version of Dali Land... We see you're smart but why so quick with the putdowns?

I could see a dripping clock ferris wheel... hourglasses, some water park hour glass rides and leave out the crucifixions.


message 47: by Caitlin (new)

Caitlin Goddard (cgoddardread) | 1 comments I'm new here to, but surrealism is one of my favorites.I think an easy way to understand surrealism is to compare it to expressionism.

The point of expressionism is for the artist to share what is going on in their soul and “express it” in a very personal level- whereas in surrealism it’s more like the painter wants to put a dream out there and it’s your own wants and desires that create the meaning for you.

Think Rorschach blots- and yes, very psychoanalytical.


message 48: by Monica (new)

Monica | 909 comments Or, think Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds;)


message 49: by Heather, Moderator (new)

Heather | 8353 comments Monica wrote: "Or, think Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds;)"

That's funny, Monica. When I was studying over in Europe, we had to learn the patron saints and all of their attributes for our Renaissance class. I learned St. Lucy's 'attribute' (that she had her eyes cut out) by thinking "Lucy in the Sky with Eyeballs"! Or is that what you were already talking about?


message 50: by Monica (new)

Monica | 909 comments I was thinking of the animation of LSD in Yellow Submarine. Free association is cool, free visualization is, too. Come to think of it, the videos for I Am a Walrus, Hello Goodbye, Magical Mystery Tour and Free as a Bird are surreal.


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