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GETTING TO KNOW YOU > Equivalent Page Counts for Ebooks?

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message 1: by scherzo♫ (new)

scherzo♫ (pjreads) What's a fair way to evaluate minimum page requirements for the various types of ebooks?


message 2: by Usako (new)

Usako (bbmeltdown) | 1341 comments Usually I go by the hardcover/paperback version if I have an e-book.

But if it's strictly an e-book, usually they have a listing SOMEWHERE with the page count. Amazon typically does. I've yet to find an e-book without a page count listing.


message 3: by ★Meghan★ (new)

★Meghan★ (starinheaven) | 832 comments Yes most ePub formats have page numbers. But most books are a lot shorter in eBook format than in paperback/hardcover format. For instance The Short Second Life of Bree Tanner: An Eclipse Novella in hardcover it was over 150 pages, but in ebook format it was less than 100 pages. I have noticed that the majority of the books that I read on the Nook are approx. 20-25% less than paper format. So maybe the minimum page count could be 75-80 pages for a ebook.


message 4: by Kathy G. (new)

Kathy G. | 20 comments Couldn't we use the book (paperback or hardcover) whichever is less as the count? It doesn't seem fair that an ebook, being exactly the same book as the paper format, be discounted if it falls under 100 pages.


message 5: by Kathy G. (new)

Kathy G. | 20 comments Are there page numbers on Project Gutenberg? I couldn't find them. Maybe someone can help me.


message 6: by Dee (last edited Aug 31, 2010 05:16PM) (new)

Dee (austhokie) | 7514 comments if the ebook i use doesn't have page numbers and its not available in print, i find a book from the same publisher that I have in ebook and is availabel in print and do the math, figuring out how many locations per page and then apply it to the other book...through trial and error, i've figured out that most "pages" run between 13 and 17 locations per page

i've not really noticed a different between ebook and book format...because Amazon just draws on an available print version...but the kindle doesn't use page numbers


message 7: by Cassandra (new)

Cassandra I never use the page count of the actual book I read; I use the page count from the edition that comes up first on Goodreads when I search for the title. Regardless of whether it's less or more.

If that's wrong then I'll stop, but I read mostly ebooks and audiobooks and I don't save the ISBNs on physical books right now. Just using the page number on Goodreads is a lot easier.


message 8: by Kathy G. (new)

Kathy G. | 20 comments If we can find a standard, that would be great. I've avoided ebooks because I just didn't know how to do it.


message 9: by Cindy AL (new)

Cindy AL (cangelmd) | 664 comments I have also used Rhea's method - the page count of the "main" edition of the book on Goodreads. It hardly seems fair to me to not use a method that is based on the printed book somehow - you are reading the same number of WORDS after all.
I've never had the situation of the book not being available in a print version.


message 10: by Christine US (new)

Christine US (christineus) | 572 comments I'm like Rhea & Cindy -- the page count Goodreads gives is what I use. I tend to use the paperback count on Goodreads as I would've most likely purchased the paperback version from a store. Of course, if it's only available in hardcover, that's my default.


message 11: by Kim D (new)

Kim D (kdimattia) | 199 comments Christine US wrote: "I'm like Rhea & Cindy -- the page count Goodreads gives is what I use. I tend to use the paperback count on Goodreads as I would've most likely purchased the paperback version from a store. Of co..."

I also use the page count given on Goodreads. I think that is the easiest way to handle it.


message 12: by Stacey (new)

Stacey (stacita) | 241 comments This will be my first challenge, but as I've been planning, I've assumed I would use the page count of the main Goodreads edition. I had just started to wonder this morning about whether I should actually always be using the paperback or hardcover counts, so I'm glad this is being discussed! I'm happy to go with whatever everyone else decides.


message 13: by PDXReader (new)

PDXReader I've always used the method Rhea & Cindy suggested - whatever the page count is on Goodreads.


message 14: by Vicky (new)

Vicky (librovert) | 243 comments When I was planning for this challenge, I was using the page count of the first entry on Goodreads. 'Page Counts' in eBooks can vary greatly - especially when we're talking about works that are in the public domain.

I was looking for an eBook copy of The Comedy of Errors (112 pages) and found two different copies. One was formatted with a return between the character's name and their first line of speech, the second started the speech on the same line as the character's name. The page counts were 135 and 73, respectively.

I also think that even with an ePub, the page count varies with the reader you are using. Meghan mentioned above that, in her experience, most eBooks have a smaller page count than their paper counterparts. In my experience with Mobipocket, eBooks have a larger page count than paper, due to the smaller size of the "page." I have an eBook copy of Star Born, that comes up at 271 pages, while the main Goodreads edition is 238.

If we used the first Goodreads edition as the standard, it could also be applied to Audio Books as well. I'm new - so I could be wrong, but I didn't see anything in the rules about AudioBook "page counts" either.


message 15: by Dee (new)

Dee (austhokie) | 7514 comments the problem with using the goodreads page count, is that IF the book is only available in ebook format, it may not necessarily have a page number attached to it - a lot of the smaller publishers - Samhein; Loose-ID; Ellora's Cave; Dreamspinner are like this...which I guess goes back to pjreads question...

I do the same for audiobooks, the page count that first comes up in goodreads when I look for a book


message 16: by Sandy (new)

Sandy | 15618 comments Mod
Delicious Dee the book slut wrote: "the problem with using the goodreads page count, is that IF the book is only available in ebook format, it may not necessarily have a page number attached to it - a lot of the smaller publishers - ..."

Yes, the problem is not with ebooks and audiobooks that also exist in paper - if Goodreads has a page count for the print version, it's easy enough to use that - and when I read an ebook that doesn't specify the pages, I too use the first one that comes up on the GR list.

As Dee points out, though, more and more books are only available as ebooks - so that's where the question arises - how do you convert the data you get with ebooks to a page count, for purposes of the 100 page requirement, or for tasks requiring a specific number of pages to be read?

I don't think we have the same issue with audiobooks - although I'm not an audiobook listener myself, I wouldn't think you'd have audiobooks that were not also in print. (but, as I said, I don't do audiobooks, so correct me if this is wrong!)


message 17: by Nancy (new)

Nancy | 143 comments I don't do ebooks, so I'm shooting in the dark here, but is there a way to see the size of the ebook file? And is there a rough way to translate data amount to word/page count? Maybe a computer savy ebook reader could come up with some sort of formula to use.


message 18: by Dee (new)

Dee (austhokie) | 7514 comments unfortunately, its not that easy...if a book has a lot of graphics then the file size is larger...also at least from Amazon, if its it the .azw format its smaller than if its in the .tpz format...

Nancy wrote: "I don't do ebooks, so I'm shooting in the dark here, but is there a way to see the size of the ebook file? And is there a rough way to translate data amount to word/page count? Maybe a computer sav..."


message 19: by Dee (new)

Dee (austhokie) | 7514 comments I know, I found one that I want to use (its for the group read) but I couldn't figure out a page count...i'm lucky enough that the author is part of the group, so I just asked him (its 112 pages)...lol!

based on all the various publishers I use (probably about 50% of my stuff comes from those small ebook only publishers)...I get between 13 and 18 locations per print page (by using a known print copy and location math problem)...of course, all my experience is kindle based...I thought and someone correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't the sony and nook using hard pagination...which means it just tells you when you get to a new page in the book (i think the ipad does as well)...

Sandy wrote: "Delicious Dee the book slut wrote: "the problem with using the goodreads page count, is that IF the book is only available in ebook format, it may not necessarily have a page number attached to it ..."


message 20: by Usako (new)

Usako (bbmeltdown) | 1341 comments Mockingjay has up to Location 4988. It has 390 pages in hardcover. That's about 12-13 locations per page. So for an e-book, I'd say at least 1000-1200 locations? (12*100pgs)??


message 21: by Dee (new)

Dee (austhokie) | 7514 comments I would agree with that...roughly 1000 locations per 100 pages...

Ellora's Cave is more like 13 locations
Samhein something like 17


message 22: by Donna Jo (new)

Donna Jo Atwood | 3157 comments Dee, I have a Sony, and so far everything I've got on it has pages--but then I haven't read anything that isn't already in print.


message 23: by ★Meghan★ (new)

★Meghan★ (starinheaven) | 832 comments Yes everything that comes on my Nook as well also has pages. So I think the main question is with the Kindle and a few other ereaders that don't provide page counts.


message 24: by Wendy UK (new)

 Wendy  UK (wendyuk) | 756 comments The same difficulty applies to different editions of a printed book - there can be quite a considerable difference in the number of pages, especially in classics which have been reprinted many times, but you are reading the same book with exactly the same words. Perhaps we should just take the page count from the first published edition of a book, whatever form we read (or listen to) it in? I'm just awaiting delivery of a Kindle, so I look forward to some solution to this question.


message 25: by Christine US (new)

Christine US (christineus) | 572 comments My Nook has pages, but it's rarely (if ever) the same as the page count in a book. For example, my "Nook pages" for the book Uncharted TerriTORI
says 152, but the hardback edition (it's only out in HB so far) says its 214. So saying that my Nook has the same page count (just b/c it can count pages) as the book is hardly fair. I'm still reading the same number of words, the same chapters, the same everything - just not physically lugging around a copy of the book.


message 26: by Kristina Simon (new)

Kristina Simon (kristinasimon) | 10789 comments Mod
This is probably more than you want to know, but here's how the nook handles pages:

Pages in eBooks and periodicals are numbered. How the pages are numbered and displayed on the nook differs based on the file format of the digital content:

• eBooks in PDB format: Page numbering is for the entire eBook and reflects the number of pages after formatting for the text size. What page something is on changes as well. For example, when the reader text is Amasis Small, Oliver Twist says “Please, sir, I want some more” on page 26 of 817 pages. When the text is Amasis Medium, he says it on page 30 of 956. When the text is Amasis Large, he says it on page 40 of 1274.

• eBooks (and periodicals) in EPUB format: Page numbering is for the entire eBook and reflects some prior account of page numbering, before formatting for the text size. This means that, if the original book had 525 pages, then so does the eBook. But the pages are re-flowed, so a page from the book might start in the middle of the page in the eBook. A page in the book also might be smaller or larger than will fit on one page of the eBook. So, looking at the reading status bar when turning pages you might encounter page 45, and the page after that will still be page 45, and maybe the one after that too. And then you will reach page 46. Or, you will turn from page 45 to 47. What happened to page 46? It was on the same page as page 45. When you make the text size larger, the same page in the eBook will flow over more pages in the Reader.

• Reflowable eBooks in PDF format: Page numbering is for the entire book and reflects some prior account of page numbering, before formatting for the text size. The behavior is the same as for eBooks in EPUB format, described above.

• Non-reflowable (scanned without character recognition) eBooks in PDF format: Page numbering is for the entire book, and reflects the number of scanned pages. Page numbers also might be on the scanned pages, but there is no necessary relationship. Page 6 in the eBook might have the scanned page number iv, and page 30 in the eBook might have the scanned page number 5.


message 27: by Nicoletta (new)

Nicoletta Daum (daum9812) I have a sony and its never the same number of pages as the printed books. Depending upon the text size it can be off by 200-300 pages sometimes.


message 28: by Sandy (new)

Sandy | 15618 comments Mod
I just compared some books I have on Kindle - number of locations compared to number of pages listed for Kindle edition. Locations per page were 12.2, 16.4, 18.3, 18.8, 20.8. Go figure!


message 29: by Christine US (new)

Christine US (christineus) | 572 comments Kristi -- you know, I have noticed that numbering problem...randomly one day I looked down and saw I was on page 45. 2 page clicks later, I was still on 45. I just figured my Nook has a bug. Who knew there was a real reason?:)


message 30: by Wendy UK (new)

 Wendy  UK (wendyuk) | 756 comments Well we obviously need to decide on some kind of benchmark for the number of pages, regardless of how we read the book. The same book is the same length however many pages it's divided into in different formats.


message 31: by ★Meghan★ (last edited Sep 02, 2010 11:41AM) (new)

★Meghan★ (starinheaven) | 832 comments Wendy UK wrote: "Well we obviously need to decide on some kind of benchmark for the number of pages, regardless of how we read the book. The same book is the same length however many pages it's divided into in diff..."

I agree a book is a book is a book, but there are a couple that have the intro versions or whatever that is different than the "popular" copy on the main Goodreads page.


message 32: by Wendy UK (new)

 Wendy  UK (wendyuk) | 756 comments I think when a book comes out in a new edition with an introduction, the introduction isn't included in the page count. Doesn't the actual story still begin on page 1, and the intro is usually numbered in Roman numerals? That's my experience anyway. I don't always read the intro, and I hardly ever read it until the end,it's usually easier to understand after you've read the book!


message 33: by Dee (new)

Dee (austhokie) | 7514 comments lol...that would be too confusing for me...i hated the kindle locations at first, but now i've grown used to them...they stay the same no later what size of writing I use...

Christine US wrote: "Kristi -- you know, I have noticed that numbering problem...randomly one day I looked down and saw I was on page 45. 2 page clicks later, I was still on 45. I just figured my Nook has a bug. Who..."


message 34: by Usako (new)

Usako (bbmeltdown) | 1341 comments For my Kindle -- I have always used the main Goodreads book page for the page count and if one wasn't listed there, I then went by the pages listed on Amazon.


message 35: by Sandy (new)

Sandy | 15618 comments Mod
Tanja wrote: "For my Kindle -- I have always used the main Goodreads book page for the page count and if one wasn't listed there, I then went by the pages listed on Amazon."

Yep, I don't think this whole thing is really an issue if there's a paper copy of the book out there.

I was looking this morning at a freebie I got at Amazon for the kindle - it's only available as an e-book, so there aren't any pages listed. What it did have, though, was an approximate word count. I googled word count and came up with this:

Page count - Word count
1 page 250 words
100 pages 25,000 words
200 pages 50,000 words
300 pages 75,000 words
400 pages 100,000 words
500 pages 125,000 words"

So that may be of some help in the cases in which there simply are no page counts because the book doesn't actually exist in "pages."


message 36: by PDXReader (new)

PDXReader Thanks for the help, Sandy. I, too, have a book I want to read that is only available in eBook. That was very creating thinking!


message 37: by Dee (new)

Dee (austhokie) | 7514 comments here is my rough break down from experience with various booksellers...

samhein - number of locations divided by 17.5 for page count
ellora's cave - locations/14
dreamspinner - locations/15.5

I think I have others written down somewhere (I talk a book by them that is out in print that I have...look at the locations and divide by the print pages (since most publishers format their books the same)


message 38: by TMBookluvr (new)

TMBookluvr (tmb1981) | 285 comments The kindle goes by number of sentences. I think they don't put the page numbers because it can vary depending on the size of the font and so the number of sentances stays consistent. I've never been allowed to use an Ebook for page number count before, so i will use them for other tasks that don't require page number counts, but I would say go by either what it has on Good Reads or, with the Kindle, what it says on Amazon.



Sandy wrote: "I just compared some books I have on Kindle - number of locations compared to number of pages listed for Kindle edition. Locations per page were 12.2, 16.4, 18.3, 18.8, 20.8. Go figure!"


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