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The Tomb of Terminated Threads > A sad time for Horror publication

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message 1: by Jason (new)

Jason | 176 comments http://www.dorchesterpub.com/Dorch/Sp...

Leisure Horror will no longer be printing their mass market paperbacks starting with the September releases. They will no be available as e-books only. While I know that many of you are not fans of some of the books and authors that Leisure puts out, this is still a major blow to the Horror publications.


message 2: by Tom (last edited Aug 27, 2010 08:04AM) (new)

Tom | 3 comments Sorry but I don't see how this is a blow to Horror Publications, I actually think it is the opposite. eBooks are a great new technology that I think will help in the consumption and proliferation for many author's work. eBooks are bought and delivered instantly, easy to carry, and don't clutter. Ever since I got my kindle I have been able to increase the amount of books I read and I think many people will find that to be the case.
For collectors (like me) I choose hardcovers and trade paperbacks and really have no use for mass market paperbacks so even if you do prefer paper books I still think there will be plenty of paper books bought and sold.


message 3: by Tressa (new)

Tressa  (moanalisa) | 19935 comments I'm looking forward to buying some for my Kindle. I also have read more since I got my Kindle. There's always a title waiting in the wings wherever I am.


message 4: by Adam (new)

Adam Wilson | 220 comments I can't use a kindel and I go off of people scanning the books and putting them up illegally or getting them off of a web site for the blind called Bookshare. So, if Leisure stops putting out as many physical copies of books it might make it harder for me to find lesser known horror authors. Just shows that technology is taking over and books will soon be used for collecting mostly.


message 5: by Branden (last edited Aug 27, 2010 10:14AM) (new)

Branden (cinefessions) | 235 comments Tom wrote: "Sorry but I don't see how this is a blow to Horror Publications, I actually think it is the opposite. eBooks are a great new technology that I think will help in the consumption and proliferation f..."

This is true, but look at how many people own an eReader to the number of people who buy Mass Market Paperbacks. I would have to wager a guess that the difference would be fairly large, hence cutting out some of their fan base, and making this is a bad thing. I am all for eBooks, but I would hate to see MMPs disappear completely.

Edit: Well, nevermind that argument. I thought Jason said they will be available as eBook ONLY, and didn't realize they were still being released in Trade Paperback. My mistake. My only complaint about trade paperback is that they are more expensive, which is just annoying for a grad student with virtually no money.


message 6: by Jason (new)

Jason | 176 comments Branden wrote: "Tom wrote: "Sorry but I don't see how this is a blow to Horror Publications, I actually think it is the opposite. eBooks are a great new technology that I think will help in the consumption and pro..."

Yes, I have no problem with e-books nor technology but I am one who enjoys collecting books and have been collecting Leisure Horror books for years.

From what I gather the Trade Paperbacks won't be available for awhile (spring?) if they even will be released. (and yes they can be pricey!)


message 7: by jb (new)

jb Byrkit (jbbyrkit) | 2035 comments Kinda of disheartening. I buy most of my books in paperback. It is cheaper and easier to carry around. I now own a nook which is wonderful, but I still love my books.

I actually like the mass market paperback better. It is smaller and easier to fit in my purse than Trade :)


message 8: by Martha (new)

Martha (hellocthulhu) | 65 comments I do prefer hardback books to trade paperbacks, so it's probably no great loss for me. Sometimes I do look for a paperback first if I'm trying a new author though.
I really can't see myself getting an e-reader at any point, I can see the convenience of one certainly, but I greatly prefer paper books.


message 9: by Scott (new)

Scott I prefer trade to mass-market anyway. I find they're easier to hold and keep open.


message 10: by Shaun (new)

Shaun (shaunjeffrey) | 245 comments I don't think it's a blow to horror. Things change over time. That's evolution, but as long as people are still reading books in whatever form, then all is right with the world:)


message 11: by Melanie (new)

Melanie Jackson (melaniejaxn) | 17 comments It's a small point, but Don D-Auria (the horror editor at Leisure) discovered and nurtured a lot of talent that might have gone undiscovered otherwise, and he is gone from Leisure now. There is only one editor left there-- and as wonderful as he is-- he can't possible edit all the horror, westerns, romance, thrillers that Leisure offers. Things are going to get cut back unless Leisure hires more editorial staff. Some lines of books will be gone. Not just gone from mass market but gone period. Horror may be one of them.

Still, I think Leisure is just the first company to make this move. Others will be forced by economics to follow.

For those who don't know it. kindle offers free apps so you can read ebooks on your computer. This is a stop-gap until more of the world converts to e-readers. Not ideal, but an option.


message 12: by Matt R. (last edited Aug 29, 2010 07:52PM) (new)

Matt R. (matt2009) | 29 comments Too bad the Kindle is still pricey...$139 could buy you 19 paperbacks (or lots more if you buy used).


message 13: by Guido (new)

Guido Henkel (guidohenkel) | 244 comments Well considering that is used to be $250 I don't think it is pricey at all any more. You shouldn't think of it in terms of pure paperback value, though. It is more of a lifestyle change. Most people never thought about how many basic mobiles phones they could buy instead of their iPhones, Blackberrys or whatnot.

The real payback of a Kindle comes from its elegance, its accessability, the fact that most people read faster and more and that books are generally much cheaper on the Kindle than in print. Not to mention the fact that you save a couple of trees as well as plenty of waste from the print industry such as ink and thinners, along with all the byproducts and carbon footprints generated by having print books shipped around the continent...

Does it still seem all that pricey?


message 14: by Matt R. (new)

Matt R. (matt2009) | 29 comments It boils down to perceived value. I like new gadgets but typically wait until prices are cut a few times before I consider purchasing. Right now, I have so many books to keep me busy, I do not need a Kindle. The only enticing thing for me is the fact that the Leisure Horror books will be ebook releases first. If more publishers start dropping print and go e-book then I suppose many of us would start grabbing Kindles to keep up with our favorite authors. Most people never thought about the value of owning many mobile phones vs. owning one smart phone – there would be no reason to.

I also wanted to make a point about sustainability in the print industry. We now have tree farms and printers using wind power with soy inks etc. Paper companies often plant two trees for every one tree they use for paper. Trees are planted on huge farms dedicated to making paper. Things have changed quite a bit in the print industry and they are more responsible. Look at all the WASTE in the world. I see so many other things in the news that truly harm the environment...how about all that oil in our ocean? Printed books look pretty harmless compared to that...


message 15: by Guido (new)

Guido Henkel (guidohenkel) | 244 comments You do have a point there.


message 16: by Matt R. (new)

Matt R. (matt2009) | 29 comments Guido, by the way, your Ghost Hunter books look interesting. I'll have to give it a read.


message 17: by Gef (new)

Gef (wagthefox) | 0 comments If I owned an e-reader, Don D'Auria still worked there, and several horror authors like Brian Keene hadn't cut ties with Leisure Horror, this might be good news. As it stands, it feels like bad news. Real bad.


message 18: by Guido (new)

Guido Henkel (guidohenkel) | 244 comments Thanks, Matt. You can get a free eBook copy of "Demon's Night" by entering "MEETJASON" when you check out on our website at http://www.jasondarkseries.com

Let me know what you think of it once you've read it.


message 19: by Jason (new)

Jason (darkfiction) | 3233 comments I think that this is a blow for one main reason. As a writer who has yet to publish a book, it is my dream to go to the bookstore one day and see my name up there on the self. Now that Leisure is gone, in terms of mass market paperback publishing, that's one venue now gone. A BIG one.


message 20: by Amanda (new)

Amanda Lyons (amandamlyons) Jason wrote: "I think that this is a blow for one main reason. As a writer who has yet to publish a book, it is my dream to go to the bookstore one day and see my name up there on the self. Now that Leisure is g..."

I feel the same way. Now where can the horror authors go to find that dream?


message 21: by Jason (new)

Jason (darkfiction) | 3233 comments There are other publishers, but Leisure was a big one.


message 22: by Spectra (new)

Spectra Magazine | 10 comments Seeing an e-book on the App Store, or on Amazon, is still a pretty big thrill, and far easier to promote.


message 23: by Aloha (new)

Aloha | 4052 comments Scott Sigler did a terrific job promoting himself using the new medium.


message 24: by Amanda (new)

Amanda Lyons (amandamlyons) Jason wrote: "There are other publishers, but Leisure was a big one."

Ah yes but few are as clearly open to horror and have their submission info as readily available as Leisure did. I'm saying they were the clearest option and now extra effort will be necessary. The dream becomes that much harder to achieve without going ebook or self-publisher.


message 25: by Felina (new)

Felina | 83 comments I have a kindle and I don't think eBook prices are very much cheaper than regular paperback. Maybe a few dollars. I love my kindle but still enjoy reading and owning actual books. I hate hardback books so kindle works nicely for those and tomes of course. I do find the decline in the book selling market to be disturbing. I try to support my local bookstores more than giant megamart Amazon when it comes to books available in paperback.


message 26: by Lori (last edited Aug 31, 2010 02:12PM) (new)

Lori (barfield) | 1692 comments http://www.graspingforthewind.com/201...

I found this on another site, but thought it relevant to this topic. To me and many others like me $250.00 or $139.00 is still to high a price to afford right now, when we can get PB or HB for so much less. Plus i love the feel and smell of a new book. You can't get that with an E-Reader or Kindle.


message 27: by Jason (new)

Jason (darkfiction) | 3233 comments Spectra Magazine wrote: "Seeing an e-book on the App Store, or on Amazon, is still a pretty big thrill, and far easier to promote."

I'm not against seeing a book of mine in eBook format. I just want to see my book on a shelf as well.


message 28: by Tom (new)

Tom | 3 comments Lori wrote: "To me and many others like me $250.00 or $139.00 is still to high a price to afford right now.."

A very valid point Lori, but all the more reason to encourage ebooks as more demand usually leads to lower prices (it usually leads to improvements in the technology as well) just like what has been seen for computers and smart phones.


message 29: by Lori (new)

Lori (barfield) | 1692 comments I seen an ad for a Kindle on TV last night. The first one i've seen. I told my husband to check it out, he thought it was a bigger I-Pod. All brawn not much upstairs. I told him what it was, and how the price had come down, and he was like, "It needs to come down more." I imagine by the time i get one it will be considered old school.


message 30: by Matt R. (new)

Matt R. (matt2009) | 29 comments Lori wrote: "I seen an ad for a Kindle on TV last night. The first one i've seen. I told my husband to check it out, he thought it was a bigger I-Pod. All brawn not much upstairs. I told him what it was, and ho..."

My guess is that the price point drops to $99 sometime next year. I have heard rumblings online.


message 31: by Jerrod (last edited Sep 03, 2010 11:00AM) (new)

Jerrod (liquidazrael) | 712 comments Matt R. wrote: "My guess is that the price point drops to $99 sometime next year. I have heard rumblings online. "

Rumor mill is saying that possibly the Kobo and a few others will drop prices to 99 and under this year.

**EDIT**
Libre will be 99$ for this holiday season, doesn't use e-ink display though, another proprietary display.

http://www.mevio.com/episode/239636/a...


message 32: by Maciek (new)

Maciek (pan_maciej) | 327 comments You guys understandthat going e-book only basically means putting your head into a cage of a wild Gator who bears the name "Piracy"?


message 33: by Guido (new)

Guido Henkel (guidohenkel) | 244 comments Yeah. The good thing is that every other medium has gone through it before us and survived.

Games, music, movies, TV, and so forth...

Staying away from digital distribution out of fear of piracy is not likely to change it, especially since virtually any book that's ever been in print is being circulated as a scan, PDF or even eBook file over the internet anyway. So when it comes down to it, it really doesn't make a difference whether YOU offer it or not. Someone will, and frankly, I'd rather make some money off it than let the pirates take it all.


message 34: by Maciek (new)

Maciek (pan_maciej) | 327 comments Has it? Tower records has closed thanks to it. Bands make money mostly from performing live. Movie and TV pircay is a common thing.

I don't say that staying away from digital distribution is a bad thing, but offering it as an only option is not very wise. You can justify pirating an album, movie or game for testing purposes - if you like it enough, you're going to but the actual thing. I don't think that's very likely going to happen with digital files.


message 35: by Guido (new)

Guido Henkel (guidohenkel) | 244 comments You can just as well justify "testing" a book, though this whole "Testing" justification is a bunch of bologna, of course. Pirates don't test, they steal!

As for the survival rate, Tower closed for other reasons and so did most of the other stores that fell by the roadside. Piracy is a serious issue, no doubt, but as a said, not going digital is the perfect recipe to be pirated also, while at the same time going under.


message 36: by Maciek (new)

Maciek (pan_maciej) | 327 comments What about libraries? You can check out physical books for free. I don't know about game/movie libraries that'll let you do it for no buck at all.

Books are a particular subject, and the day we will reach the lack of physical volumes will be a sad, sad one. Personally I hope it never happens. I mean, who would like to have their whole library on a computer? And even more, who would actually pay for this?


message 37: by Jerrod (new)

Jerrod (liquidazrael) | 712 comments Maciek wrote: "You can justify pirating an album, movie or game for testing purposes - if you like it enough, you're going to but the actual thing."

I disagree, trying to justifying stealing from someone else is ridiculous, that is why they have reviews and demo's of digital media.


message 38: by Maciek (last edited Sep 03, 2010 11:44AM) (new)

Maciek (pan_maciej) | 327 comments I don't want to get into justifying issue, personally I don't care about whether someone pirates something or not. My point was that while people pirate games/movies/music off the net still some of them will buy the actual physical disc/dvd/album. I don't think that many people will replace illegal downloads with legal ones, mainly because they're practically the same thing - files.


message 39: by Guido (new)

Guido Henkel (guidohenkel) | 244 comments There is a big difference - they are legally obtained and not stealing from other people.

Anyway, phasing out print versions of books is probably too early, but I think a lot of us have noticed that there has been a significant shirt in the last months towards eBooks.


message 40: by Maciek (new)

Maciek (pan_maciej) | 327 comments Guido - Who cares? Most people don't. Plus how can you steal a file? It's not like you go and steal a book from the bookstore.
Besides, if you buy a legal ebook, what can you do with it? It's not like you can give it to someone, sell it after reading, get it autographed by the author or just leave it for someone in the library to pick up. A digital file has absolutely zero collecting value and as we see restricts it's buyer. I'm all against ebooks as the sole option and will never pay for one.


message 41: by Jerrod (last edited Sep 03, 2010 01:14PM) (new)

Jerrod (liquidazrael) | 712 comments Maciek wrote: "I'm all against ebooks as the sole option and will never pay for one."

That's preference Maciek. Although I do agree about the collectors value, but many readers don't buy books to collect, they buy to be entertained. Always remember 'value' is not only determined by a vendors sticker either and having a hard copy of something is just as useless if you don't have anyone who want's to buy/receive what you've got anyway. Don't get me wrong, I like physical books way better than digital, but I save my physical book purchases for those that I feel belong in my personal library instead of filling it up my bookshelf with things that I've read. Saves me time and money by avoiding a few steps in the cycle.

Maciek wrote: "Plus how can you steal a file? It's not like you go and steal a book from the bookstore."

Buy it and distribute it via file sharing networks, they already do it with many e-books and printed media already. And no, the DRM isn't going to stop anyone.


message 42: by Jason (last edited Sep 03, 2010 01:33PM) (new)

Jason (darkfiction) | 3233 comments Guido, please tone it down with the name calling. I'm stopping this now before it gets out of hand. I deleted your last comment because it was offensive to a certain other member. I can respect that you disagree with him, but no name calling. :)


message 43: by Guido (new)

Guido Henkel (guidohenkel) | 244 comments I don't recall any name-calling, but sure, I have nothing to add to this conversation any more anyway. I said my piece.


message 44: by Maciek (last edited Sep 03, 2010 01:59PM) (new)

Maciek (pan_maciej) | 327 comments Guido wrote: "Oh, you are one of those guys who think just because it's a file it's not illegal. Sorry, dude, but I'm done here... you are nothing but a crook without a moral fiber."

Yeah, since you read my posts in this topic you obviously know my morals inside out. Haha! Go troll somewhere else.

Jerrod wrote: "That's preference Maciek. Although I do agree about the collectors value, but many readers don't buy books to collect, they buy to be entertained. Always remember 'value' is not only determined by a vendors sticker either and having a hard copy of something is just as useless if you don't have anyone who want's to buy/receive what you've got anyway.

Jerrod, collecting value is only one of the advantages of physical books. You made an interesting point - but you can always do something with a physical copy of a book, sooner or later everything sells - I know this because I worked in a bookstore. Either it's cover art, synopsis, or even that particular edition that the buyer glimpsed years ago in a shop long closed down - it's impossible to do with a file, because a file is, well, a file. Lack of unique physical medium is a great disadvantage here.

Jerrod wrote: "Don't get me wrong, I like physical books way better than digital, but I save my physical book purchases for those that I feel belong in my personal library instead of filling it up my bookshelf with things that I've read. Saves me time and money by avoiding a few steps in the cycle.

That's understandable, and certainly very efficient when it comes to managing bookspace. But suppose you buy some ebooks for a total sum of 50 dollars which you didn't like at all - what are you going to do with them? Your money is lost. You can always sell or swap physical copies.

Guido wrote: "Buy it and distribute it via file sharing networks, they already do it with many e-books and printed media already. And no, the DRM isn't going to stop anyone.

My point was that stealing books from a bookstore is literally stealing. Books are printed, bound and delivered to the store - it all costs money, and when you steal a book from a bookstore you take away not only possible profits from it's sale, but also the cost that was put into it's production and storage.
Downloading content from the web is copying - like copying a book by typing it out in a bookstore, but obviously much, much faster. The seller might lose possible profits from sale, but the loss is not ultimate - the product can still sell because it still can be bought. The same can't be said for a stolen book, right?


message 45: by Alex (new)

Alex  (atayler) | 7 comments Maciek, has it ever occurred to you that a book is not merely paper and ink or a file on a computer, that it's actually the result of countless days, months, possibly years of a human life? Books don't just happen, they are the result of effort, and whenever that effort is taken without payment, it is theft.


message 46: by Branden (new)

Branden (cinefessions) | 235 comments Alex wrote: "Maciek, has it ever occurred to you that a book is not merely paper and ink or a file on a computer, that it's actually the result of countless days, months, possibly years of a human life? Books d..."

That's a very good point, but couldn't the same be said for a library?


message 47: by Maciek (last edited Sep 03, 2010 02:45PM) (new)

Maciek (pan_maciej) | 327 comments Alex wrote: "Maciek, has it ever occurred to you that a book is not merely paper and ink or a file on a computer, that it's actually the result of countless days, months, possibly years of a human life? Books d..."

Yup. It might make it easier to swallow when you see that I'm talking about the concept of a physical book and a digital book and not the content itself.


message 48: by Alex (new)

Alex  (atayler) | 7 comments Easier to swallow is not an excuse. Why get caught up in the paper and ink? It’s not about buying a blank notebook. Go ahead, download all the pirated blank notebooks you want – nobody’s going to care. It’s when you download content that it really matters. Eventually only corporations with enough money and power to protect their copyrights will be able to survive. Is that the world you want to see?

What matters is that we protect intellectual property rights. Without that protection we will cease to produce anything worth reading.


message 49: by Alex (new)

Alex  (atayler) | 7 comments

It's not the same thing. If I buy a book, I have the right to loan it. So does a library. That's very different from simultaneous distribution to whoever wants it. There's a time value involved. For most bestsellers, it's the first few months of release where the most money is made. In marketing, it's called cream-skimming. The richest milk is on the top. Pirating deprives the author of some of that, library lending does not.

There's more to the argument than that, but that's a big part of it.


message 50: by Guido (new)

Guido Henkel (guidohenkel) | 244 comments Apart from the fact that only one person can read a book at any one time. With digital copies and endless amount of people can read it at the same time.

This whole "it's copying, not stealing" argument is really getting old.


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