Goodreads Librarians Group discussion
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Additions to Librarian Manual
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Series, now not stuffed into titles!
Looks good, the only question I have is regarding titles in translation section. It's not so much a question of the text, but the fear of lost information if the developers run a script to remove series information. Won't we lose the edition specific info at that time?
Prior to August 2010, this information was listed in the title field; it should now be listed in the series area and removed from the title field where possible.I was under the impression that we were keeping the series information in the title field for the moment. Personally, I'd prefer redundant data as opposed to missing data.
I'm sure there are plans to display the series information next to the book title, but I doubt it has been universally implemented at this point.
For series where the titles have all been edited to fit the old format - Title (Series, #1) - will librarians now have to go through all the different editions of each book and edit them to read only Title?I think it's excellent that series will no longer be 'stuffed into titles' - it looked scruffy.
Abi wrote: "For series where the titles have all been edited to fit the old format - Title (Series, #1) - will librarians now have to go through all the different editions of each book and edit them to read only Title?"Yes, but I think there's going to be something automated which will go through and do this for everything in the standard format once we're all signed off on the new series feature.
Do journals which are paperback books and issued each year belong in a series or as separate books? I have seen a lot of them combined but I know that although the format and subject of each one is similar the content is usually completely different.What defines a series outside of fiction? Where you have books that are Vol 1, Vol 2, are they now a series? I would have thought not, but I want to know what has been decided as GR policy.
What about a set of books, such as the Great Illustrated ones issued by Playbook (I might have the publisher wrong) where each book contains a few children's classics, but always different ones?
Cait, I would say yes, something which is published as vol 1, vol 2, etc. should be considered a series, even if they're not what we think of as a fiction series. It is a series of books put out under some common theme and name; the fact that it's not a single story or set in a single universe is not something I find problematic.Where I would draw the line are publisher "series" which are really just loosely disguised imprints. Particularly when these are simply reprints of earlier works. Thus, I would avoid things like "The Wesleyan Early Classics of Science Fiction Series" as being a legitimate series.
This Is Not The Michael You're Looking For wrote: "Where I would draw the line are publisher "series" which are really just loosely disguised imprints. Particularly when these are simply reprints of earlier works. Thus, I would avoid things like "The Wesleyan Early Classics of Science Fiction Series" as being a legitimate series. "This is the issue I brought up in regards to books like "Harlequin Presents." They're basically imprints and they're often reprints.
Mod
The numbers don't have a lot of meaning. They use number variations on the same book, they reuse them, and they're derived from the ISBNS (Which they also reuse) rather than indicating order. Here's an example I have lying around: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61...
My bookcover lists 1343 on the left hand side and 11343 on the right hand side.
Then there are the books that are under several different reprints, with different numbers: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/70...
Mod
You may be right. It's still essentially a publishers imprint, rather than a meaningfully ordered series.
This Is Not The Michael You're Looking For wrote: "Where I would draw the line are publisher "series" which are really just loosely disguised imprints. Particularly when these are simply reprints of earlier works. Thus, I would avoid things like "The Wesleyan Early Classics of Science Fiction Series" as being a legitimate series."Ok, that clears up two points, thanks very much Michael, but what about journals - such as Journal of such and such an association, published as a book with isbn, and different every year. Is this a series or not? The sets I found were just combined which is incorrect either way.
Petra X wrote: "what about journals - such as Journal of such and such an association, published as a book with isbn, and different every year. Is this a series or not? The sets I found were just combined which is incorrect either way."That definitely sounds like a series to me, and the individual volumes should not be combined with each other.
Bumping this thread to see what we're doing about "series" like this one:http://www.goodreads.com/series/41541...
You can see that a few of the books actually have SF Masterworks #21, etc in the title. Is this a legitimate series? It seems more like a listopia list than a series to me. Are we in the process of deleting these? Should we try to convert this to a list? Also, have we decided on support documentation for adding new series? I couldn't find it in the librarian manual.
Hi:I'm a little worried about this series, not sure if it came up automatically or somebody made it manually:
http://www.goodreads.com/series/49757...
I'm not against it but, obviously, most of those titles have more editions. Prolly only one of them is a Landmark book not the entire lot. Still all of them show the Landmak Books tag in the title line. Besides by the description of Landmark Books:
http://www.kidsreads.com/series/serie...
I'm not sure if they arent abridged versions since its aimed for kids in which case maybe they shouldnt be combined with the rest right?
Anyone knows something about this?
Thanks
I've updated this draft with the omnibus numbering and multiple series handling that have been decided, and I've noted places where the policy is still in flux. (Questions about policy which is still in flux should go in the "policies" folder where they can be discussed.)
I started a thread about imprints in the policy folder, since it keeps coming up.
Mod
That's because this is the thread where we are working on what language to add.
Cait wrote: "series titles in translationSeries names may change in translation or with reprinting, and the series name for each edition should always be edition-specific. If the edition's series name does not match the name given for the series as a whole, do not remove the edition's series name from the edition's title field. Complete handling of series names in translation has not yet been determined."
Meh? That's... wordy. And I'm not even sure if my question has to do with that or if that's specifically talking about multiple languages...? I've got a reprinting issue:
So in THIS series: http://www.goodreads.com/series/42338..., you will notice that books 5 and 12 don't look like they belong... That's because their author, the NOW-very-popular Meg Cabot has had the books reprinted as stand-alone books. It's like the original printing belongs to the series, but the new printing doesn't. Is there going to be a way to distinguish between the different versions (like will we be able to add a specific EDITION of a book to a series), or is it stuck like that?
In this case, I don't think it REALLY matters, because if people like the Meg Cabot books, maybe they'd appreciate knowing about the other books that are similar... But I was curious....
The full listing of all series is available here:http://www.goodreads.com/series
That needs to be alphabetical, so that we can click on a letter (rather than paging through).
So if I've created a series and there are two books in it, and I click on the series name and only one shows up, is that a caching issue? Shouldn't they both show up?
Nevermind, I was doing it wrong.
Mod
Made some small wording edits; indicated the new method for setting a series as the primary series -- it's not really working yet, but I would assume that this is the final UI for it.
Looks a lot like a series to me, for what that's worth.
According to google, a 7 part series.
Kaion wrote: "http://www.goodreads.com/series/40601...Series or not a series?"
Kaion, you should raise that one in its own thread in the series folder -- I remember there was a lot of discussion on how to handle Proust back when series were still theoretical, so that one's probably going to need a lot of attention....
Series gurus,Is there a way to attach an edition to an existing series from a book's edit page?
On edit book page I see only a link to "add a series" not "attach to series" . . . so I am guess for the time being we should go to the series page and add indv. works from there?
I am a little confused. I can get it to work from series -> add a book but not from "edit book".
Natalie wrote: "On edit book page I see only a link to "add a series" not "attach to series" . . . so I am guess for the time being we should go to the series page and add indv. works from there?"You are correct. Right now you can only add books to an existing series from the series itself. See this thread in the Feedback Group. It's been asked for (comment 161) and tickets created (comment 164). I don't know when GR will get to putting in that feature though.
@Dori, Thanks for the thread link. I checked that out. Attaching to series from book edit page will be a useful feature when GR gets it implemented. Thanks,
Natalie
Natalie wrote: "Attaching to series from book edit page will be a useful feature when GR gets it implemented."Agreed :)
Is there a series count feature where you can see how many works or editions are in a series? Context: I am trying to check if I added the right number of works to a large children's series (childhood of famous americans).
Mod
No, but if it's a numbered series, you can number them and count that way.
Actually, even if it's not a numbered series, you could always number them with autonumber, check the final number, and then remove the numbering.I don't think a generally visible count would be all that useful, since a single book could end up being counted several times if it's part of a boxed set or is broken into parts for some publications.
Mod
OMG, the autonumbering is awesome! When you check the "numbered" checkbox, a link appears just below it which says "auto number", and it overwrites anything already in the number boxes with the book's current position in the list.
Mod
@Cait thanks autonumber is very useful!
Very relieved to see this - thanks. Can you tell me if there's a guide that contains this level of detail for this (and other) librarian tasks? The Librarian Manual seems to have mostly overview level info, but I love this nice clear detailed approach to series creation.Cheers!
Just to confirm: I wasn't making series amendments prior to these changes, so do I understand correctly that:- Previously, Librarians input directly to titles to link books in a series
- Now we use the "add" series link to do this
- There's now no need at all to amend the series info in the parentheses after the title
- The title convention for series is now, "Title (SeriesName #No)" without the comma between the series name and number?
Sorry to be pedantic, but this means some of the edits I made last night might not have been correct, as I hadn't seen this post.
If you are adding the series information to the title field then the current standard is(Series Name, #_)
The auto displayed series name created by using the new Add Series link at the bottom of the page uses
(Series Name #_) - the code generates this from the series title and the number of book if it has a number.
There is a discrepancy - Some librarians are continuing to add series info to the title field since the new series info does not display everywhere but not all do since it may eventually all be removed from the title field
Thanks Paula. Much appreciated. I won't bother correcting series info in the title that doesn't conform to the standard. (Unless it's so badly mangled that I can't stand to look at it) ;)
Paula wrote: "If you are adding the series information to the title field then the current standard is(Series Name, #_) "
I understand that this will change when series are finalized, but, for now, what is the official standard for adding a new book to the database that is part of a series? Do we include the series (as part of the title) or not?
There is no official stance as per the Librarian manual but we are currently working to this:"The series information still doesn't show everywhere or show up in searches. You don't have to enter the series information if you don't want to, but please don't remove it if it's already there"
For new books that are part of a series, I've been using the 'add series' feature that then auto-display the series information in the book's title on a book page. That's how I understood the new rules about series - to not add the series information to the title itself, but to use the 'add series' feature. Is that incorrect?
There is no harm in adding it to the title if you want to since the new add series does not display everywhere.If you do, then at some point in time it may be removed so some see adding it as redundant work.
Others add it so that it does display in the places the new series does not and so that it can be used in searches.
Currently as far as I m aware the stance is:
"The series information still doesn't show everywhere or show up in searches. You don't have to enter the series information if you don't want to, but please don't remove it if it's already there"
Oh okay. So in that case, I WILL keep adding series info to the title as well as using the "add series" function.So..... I still use the comma between the name and number?
Just thought I'd share this if anyone else finds it handy - I've written up task cards for myself for how to do some of the main librarian activities. I find it helps me to have step-by-step instructions handy.------------------------------------------------------
To create a NEW series
Don't use this to add books to existing series
1) Click "Edit Details" for one of the books from the series.
2) The "add new series" link is near the bottom of the page in the work settings. Click it.
3) The link will open up a page to create a series. Fill in the details & click "numbered".
4) Click "Add Books" to add the additional books to the series. This will open a pop-up where you can search for the books you want to add. Select the ones you want to add.
5) Make sure they are numbered in the correct order.
6) The green arrow boxes can be clicked and dragged up or down. Make sure you put the books in the correct order, top to bottom.
7) Click "Save".
8) For each of the books in the series, go back and retype the series information in the title, using the format, "Title (SeriesName #No)"
The titles of these books will now have the clickable series info in brackets also.
--------------------------------------------------------
One thing I wasn't sure about was the "primary work" tick box. Each series I've created has had all of those boxes ticked by default, and I've left them that way. Is there a section in the revised Librarian's Manual that explains that?
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series
The series area is used for the series of a book and its numbering within the series, if it has a numbering.
Prior to August 2010, this information was listed in the title field; it should now be listed in the series area and removed from the title field where possible. This section may be expanded with more information as policies on series are settled. Until the feature is finalized, do not remove series information from titles.
The definition of what constitutes a series and which related books should be included in a series is still under consideration. Please see the latest discussions in the Librarians Group if questions arise on series definitions.
The full listing of all series is available here:
http://www.goodreads.com/series
linking books to series
To create a new series, open the edit page for a book which belongs in that series. The "add" link is given with the work settings at the bottom of the page, next to any series which already include this book. This "add" link will open a page to create a new series; don't use this link to add a book to a series which already exists in the database.
To view an existing series page from a book that has already been included in that series, simply click the series link in the book information box. Currently, the only way to open an existing series is from the page of a book in the series or from the all series listing.
From the series page of an existing series, the "edit" link opens the series for editing, including the addition of more books to the series. To add a new book, click on the "+ add books" link near the bottom of the page. You can then search in the pop-up box.
To remove books from a series, click the "remove" link beside the book listing.
Always click the save button after editing a series or adding books to the series. Changes (including the addition of books) are not saved until this is done.
combining and splitting existing series
It is currently not possible to combine two series or to split one series into two. Books should be moved individually onto the series where they belong.
series title
When deciding on what series name to use, it is best to use what the author uses. This can often be found by checking the author's official website. If there doesn't appear to be an official series name, it can be helpful to check the GR database to see how the other books in the series are labeled. If no series name is found, think of a label that best names the series in a descriptive, concise way and use that label for all books in the series.
Avoid using commas in series names if possible, since commas will separate each series if a book is part of two or more series. Do not include type of series (trilogy, etc.) unless this is part of the series name. If a series is a part of a larger series, indicate the series name with the larger series name (if a standard abbreviation of the larger series name is available, it should be used here), a colon and space, and then the smaller series. Spell out the series name in full unless the book cover uses only an abbreviated name. If the series is available in multiple formats but otherwise named the same, indicate the series name with the series, a colon and space, and the distinguishing feature.
Different series with the same names do not need to be distinguished if they have no authors or books in common.
multiple series
When a book is part of multiple series, the most specific series should be the primary series for the book so that it shows with the book's title. To set a series as the primary series for a book, go to the book's edit page, scroll down to the series fields, and click "move up" beside the series which should be primary until it is in the #1 slot.
series titles in translation
Series names may change in translation or with reprinting, and the series name for each edition should always be edition-specific. If the edition's series name does not match the name given for the series as a whole, do not remove the edition's series name from the edition's title field. Complete handling of series names in translation has not yet been determined. Series are now attached to books, not editions, which causes trouble in translation.
description
A short description of the series may go here. If series objects are related to each other, links between them may be given here. This field is visible on the series page.
note
This is the place for librarian notes which give information to fellow librarians about the cataloging of this series. This field is not visible on the series page.
numbering
The "numbered" checkbox must be checked to add numbering. Numbering can be added manually or by choosing the auto-number link. The "number" field is a text field which allows up to 32 characters, so you can manually add something other than integers. (For instance, 2.5 for an extra story appearing between book 2 and 3.) The order of books within the series is not related to the numbering given; books which are numbered should be sorted in the series in numerical order.
Books can be sorted by drag and drop; this does not change the number entered for that book, if it is numbered. The autonumbering link will overwrite all entered numbers with the number of the book's order in the series.
When numbering books in a series, be sure to number them in the correct, accepted order for the series. (Some series get reprinted or translated with new numbering: see below under "one series with multiple numberings" for handling the cases when a single book may have two or more correct places in the order.) The best place to find the correct order is often on the author's official website, or in some cases the cover of the book itself will include a volume number. If it cannot be found there, or the author does not have a site, you may be able to find the information via Wikipedia, FantasticFiction, Fictiondb, Google, or Google Books search, or you can post in the Goodreads Librarians Group to see if anyone else knows or wants to help. It is often helpful to check multiple places to verify series information before beginning series labeling.
numbering: unnumbered books
Books do not need to be numbered in a series. If a series contains both numbered and unnumbered books, place the unnumbered books at the end of the series order unless they clearly belong in a different place (for example, an unnumbered prequel). If the series contains only unnumbered books, uncheck the the "numbered" checkbox; otherwise leave it checked.
numbering: short stories
If a book contains a short story which is in a series, include the book in the series listing. A common convention for marking short stories which fall between numbered books is to use decimal numbering; in these cases, order the short story collection numerically with the other books in the series.
numbering: omnibus/boxed set
At times multiple books may be released as an omnibus (multiple books reprinted in one book) or a boxed set. Series information where consecutive should be numbered as the first number, a dash, and the final number; where nonconsecutive it should be formatted as the first number, a comma and space, the next number, etc. These should be listed in a series after all of the individual books in the series and before unnumbered books in a numbered series. If they form mini-series within the series (book 1-3, then book 4-6) they should be listed in that order.
numbering: one series with multiple numberings
If a series has been reprinted with a different numbering, a second series should be created to hold the different numbering; the titles of all related series should reflect this and the descriptions of each series object should link to the other(s). This most commonly occurs with series in translation. Policy on different numberings of series is still under discussion.
comic book collections
When a comic book series is originally printed as single issues which are not listed on Goodreads and is then collected into books which are listed on Goodreads, a series should be created for the books.
When the name of the book series is the same as the name of the comics series, when the book series collects only issues of that comics series and no other, and when none of the issues of the comics series are collected in other books, the same series can be used to represent both books and comics issues. They should be numbered "X; issues Y-Z", where X is the book's numbering in the book series and Y-Z are the numbers of the collected comic book issues.
In other cases, a second series should be created to list the comic book series issues. This series should have the name of the comic book series followed by (Single issues), even if the name of the comic book series is distinct from the book series. The book series should state in its description that it collects issues from the comic books series (and include a link to the comic book series); the comic book series should state in its description that it is collected in the book series (and include a link to the book series). Additionally, the comic book series should include this statement in the description field: