Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? - More Philip K. Dick Reading

[Sandi]

The criteria used in the book to determine if one is human or not is empathy. Humans have it and androids don’t. Fail the empathy test and you are “retired” for being an android. Yet, in some ways, the androids in the book show more humanity than the humans. Consider their relationship with the chickenhead, John Isidore. True, the don’t really treat him like a friend and they don’t go out of their way for him, but they do treat him more like a human being that most humans do. They know what proper empathetic responses are, even if they have to think about them first. On the other hand, humans are treating the mentally and physically challenged horribly. They are degrading people based on economic status. They are getting their moods regulated by the mood organ on a schedule. And, their practice of “empathy” is pretty much relegated to watch some old guy climb a mountain over and over on a video screen getting stones thrown at him. Do the androids show at least as much humanity as the humans? What about the standards for empathy? Why, when Rachael is given the Voigt-Kampff test, is it considered inappropriate to react more to the idea of a husband leering at a nudie photo than the bearskin rug that the nude is posing on?

[Sandi]

Have you read any other books or stories by Philip K. Dick? Which would you recommend for readers interested in exploring more of his work? What would you suggest avoiding? Which of his books are the most accessible? Which are the most challenging?

[bsc]

It seems readily agreed upon that "Do Androids.." is his most accessible novel. My limited experience with PKD suggests that "Do Androids..." is very different from his other novels. I'd be interested if there's anything else of his that is close. I've tried "Three Stigmata.." and did not make it far, and I was bored silly with "..High Castle".

One story I really did like though was "Minority Report". I read it after the movie, which I thought was decent even though I can't stomach Tom Cruise. It is similar to the movie in a lot of ways, but much more clever.

[Jon]

Eventually, I feel that the humans would devolve enough because of the radiation, reduced population, etc. to revert to a less civilized state. With less and less human contact, people will disassociate and disconnect. A whole host of mental illnesses would crop up, and with fewer professionals to assist, an alternative had to be developed - mood controlling equipment and empathy machines (to help them feel connected to other humans).

The whole obsession with animals was lost on me. Perhaps I'll need to read the novel again to understand it better. Since the environment was so screwed up (radioactive dust for crying out loud!), it doesn't make sense to keep something so precious (a nearly extinct species) outside unprotected! It's like an act in futility.

[Sandi]

What I wonder is if many of the android behaviors are simply because they are so young. In many ways, they are like children. With the whole pulling the legs off the spider scene, I was thinking about little boys. Not all of them pull the legs off bugs, but a lot of them do and they don't grow up to be sociopaths.

[NumberLord]

Ben,

I'm with you on "The Man in the High Castle." I wasn't as impressed as I thought I should be with a Hugo winner. Sorry you didn't make it through "The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch." I think it's probably one of Dick's best stories, although it could have been written better.

"Eye in the Sky" was an interesting read. It has some thematic similarity with "Do Androids..." So does "Time Out of Joint" and "Martian Time-Slip" to some degree.

[Michael]

I've found PKD works better in short story format. I've found a large number of his short stories very enjoyable.

That said, I read and really liked Man in the High Castle.

I've read other novels by PKD, but I find I can't read too many within a certain time period or else I get really, really paranoid. LOL

[Hertzan]

My lengthy (and gushing) appreciation/critique of a number of Philip K Dick novels has materialised at The Open Critic forum. The original article has been totally overhauled to reflect The Open Critic's house style and separated into six parts.

Philip K Dick, A Critical Appreciation, Part One
Philip K Dick, A Critical Appreciation, Part Two
A Scanner Darkly
Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep
The Cosmic Puppets
Flow My Tears, The Policeman Said

Further PKD discussion can also be found on the Philip K Dick discussion group here on Goodreads, which I'm the moderator of. All are welcome to join.

[Sandi]

I really like "Eye in the Sky" and "Ubik." They were weird and I think I really need to read both again.

I think Dick's short stories are much more accessible than his novels. After having read four of his novels, I realize that there's really no way to "get" them in one reading. Fortunately, they're short so they can be read pretty quickly.

[Jeremy]

It has been my experience that you are never on stable ground with PKD. His experimentation with pov, particular unreliable narrators and the fact that reality may not be reality for Dick is what makes his work. Man in a High Tower is a perfect example of his work in my opinion. I find the only way to read his long works is to go with the flow and try not to question what is going on until later. So often it feels he going for effect instead of a strong narrative.

[This Is Not The Michael You're Looking For]

After "Do Androids..." my favorite book of his is "A Scanner Darkly" but I'm not sure how broadly accessible it is.

[[deleted user]]

I'd agree with everything Lynne posted. One thing that lurks behind the empathy tests and the novel is the notion that the reason for taking an action matters more in determining character than the action itself. Deckard himself isn't bothered by the mercenary nature of his work, but it's something we readers have to struggle with.

As for Rachel's failure, the answer is this: the leering is an offense that a self-centered person would worry about, but the rug is only an offense to those that care about animals. The testing seems stilted and ideological to me, but that's part of the human condition, too.

Sandi, I wish I could be as optimistic as you, but I don't think that people grow out of their cruelty, they just hide it when socially appropriate. [One of the things about this novel that rings true.] I've worked with many grown men who take pleasure in the suffering and death of animals, and met some cruel, self-centered women. Can you even call it sociopathy if it's normal?

[Sandi]

Thomas, are you saying that most people taking the Voigt-Kampff test would have a delay before coming up with the properly empathetic response?

[Sandi]

Bunny, you are absolutely right.

Did anyone else see a connection between Rachael killing the goat and the movie "Fatal Attraction"?

[[deleted user]]

Ms. Watson, you are ignoring the androids' own statements about android feelings and android group psychology. Not only do the humans believe androids morally inferior, they believe themselves to be. They may have good reason to hate humans, but they will speedily hurt or sell out their own kind, too.

Sandi, the V-K test seems completely bogus to me, so I have no idea what a real human would do. In the book, most of the humans seemed normal and they passed; so I suppose that if such a thing existed, most of us would pass it, too.

[Shannon]

I like what Irmgard said, when Buster Friendly was doing his expose on Mercerism:

"No, it's that empathy... Isn't it a way of proving that humans can do something we can't do? Because without the Mercer experience we just have your word that you feel this empathy business, this shared, group thing. How's the spider?" (p.185)

I think there's probably too little difference between the humans and androids and that's what's frightening about them - for the humans in the book. I mean, here you have these organic machines who only live for four years, who just want to live and be free and blend in, yet have hunted down and exterminated - why, exactly? There's no indication that they've done anything criminal except escape servitude on Mars.

There always has to be a lower class, a subservient class, some group to feel superior over - and if there are no more Filippino maids and animals are treasured more than spouses (though I agree with Jon that they're not looked after very well), the focus of this human need to feel superior has to find something new.

[JuliAnna]

I agree that it is not clear that humans in the novel are very empathetic. And, yes, this would be an expected (and protective) reaction to the degree of devastation that they have experienced. I am still reading, but it also seems from Isadore's contact with the Mercer machine that it provides reassurance rather than enhancing empathy for others.

It is interesting that the opening scenes show very little empathy. Rick and his wife have little empathy for each other. Although, there is that interesting moment when he reveals the truth about his sheep. His relationship to animals is more about acquisition, monetary value and status. His colleagues death is simply an opportunity for advancement. The character for whom we are allowed to develop the most sympathy for (and empathy with) is Isadore. I am still near the beginning, but so far it is Pris' treatment of him which (while no worse than Sloat's) is the most striking indictment against the androids and specifically for their lack of empathy.

[Brooke]

After "Do Androids..." my favorite book of his is "A Scanner Darkly" but I'm not sure how broadly accessible it is.

I found A Scanner Darkly far more accessible than High Castle and Three Stigmata. Scanner is probably my favorite. Not so coincidentally, I assume, it was the first one he wrote when he wasn't high.

All of PKD's novels seem to contain the core question, "What is real?" The moments in Androids where Deckard was taken to the second police station and couldn't get ahold of his boss or his wife gave me major Flow My Tears flashbacks. Also, I can't figure out if I'm just getting used to him, but Androids was the first one where I didn't have to do some serious mental gymnastics to get through the book.

I always try to keep in mind that PKD did a lot of his writing while using amphetamines, so I can't expect everything to make absolute sense.

[Michael]

I find I can't read too much PKD in rapid succession. A lot of his books have to do with the paranoia that comes from central characters questioning their identity or the reality presented to them. I find that if I read several PKD books in a short-amount of time, I suddenly start to feel a bit paranoid myself.

Of course, it's not hard to do these days. I find it interesting that the kind of society where people are monitored so and don't question it or think twice about it much is exactly what is happened to our world today. I find PKD's paranonia to be a bit more subtle than that of something like 1984 in that the people are monitored but don't realize it.

[Derek]

I am currently reading A Man in the High Castle, I personally am enjoying it. I have also read THe Transmigration of Timothy Arthur...that one was a little more challenging. You definetly have to bend your mind a little to read him sometimes.

[Shannon]

The only other story I've read is "Minority Report" - like Ben, I read it after watching the movie because the premise interested me. The book is quite different but very enjoyable. I think I might even prefer it. It was the first story in an anthology of Dick's short stories but I haven't read any of the others in it. Sad to say I only bought it for MR.

[Kersplebedeb]

PKD is one of my favourite authors.
& yet he is hit-or-miss, some of his stuff was cranked out simply to get a paycheck, others are works of brilliance.

i had staye away from Androids until now because i liked Blade Runner and thought liking the movie would ruin the book - i was wrong, they couldn't be more different. (i'm only 100 pages into Androids, so some of my assumptions may be wrong)

My favourite books of Dick's are Valis and The Divine Invasion (the third in the trilogy, the The Transmigration of Timothy Archer, i think only retains its SFishness when read in combination with the others). That said, they are very different from Androids.

While reading Androids i was reminded of Martian Timeslip, definitely in my top five Dick list, many times. Almost as if he's exploring the same themes again, but inverting his assumptions - Mars in timeslip in many ways resembles Earth in androids, Perky Pat/Can-D in timeslip is a negative kind of technology mirrored in the empathy box and the Penfield machine; being "schizoid"/"schizophrenic" in Androids makes one less than human, in Timeslip our two protagonists are each "schizoid"/"schizophrenic" which enables them to travel through time and become in many ways more than human.

So definitely, if you liked Androids, i recommend Martian Timeslip - though maybe take a break between the two :)

As for other Dick works, i find the full length stories (which are very short, almost novellas) always more gratifying than his short stories. (And in general, i prefer short stories when it comes to SF.)

Other than the Valis series, amongst my favourites, many of which have some similarities to Androids: Scanner Darkly, Three Stigmata, and The Clans of Alphane Moon.

[J-Lynn Van Pelt]

I think the scene with the spider was the dividing line between human and android. Up until that point, the androids were fairly sympathetic characters. But, Dick clearly separates the androids from the humans when they pull of the spider's legs--Isidore is horrified into a near breakdown and Deckard is jealous that Isidore found an animal in the wild. But, the androids have no compassion for the life and want to experiment with it. I think this was Dick giving the readers a reality check to make sure we were empathizing with the right side.

[Hertzan]

J-Lynn
would you say the androids/humans were communists/patriots respectively?

[J-Lynn Van Pelt]

Mike,

I don't see the communist/patriot connection. I do think Dick wanted us to be on Rick's side which was literally a hunted/bounty hunter dichotomy. And is interesting because authors often try to get readers to sympathize with the hunted. But, in Dick's unreliable narrative (as others have called it), the hunter is held up as the protagonist. And the spider scene is the dividing line.