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Archive 08-19 BR & Challenges > Moonstone Chapters 10 -11

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Marialyce (absltmom, yaya) If you are ready to continue, here are the next two chapters. They say that if you have paid attention, you will be able to solve the mystery in the first 100 pages. So, have you?

message 2: by Ruth (new)

Ruth No. I'm sad to say I wasn't clever enough. I suspected someone else though I wasn't quite clear on how I thought they managed.

Enjoying this read. Thanks to whomever selected it.

message 3: by Marialyce (absltmom, yaya) (last edited Aug 16, 2010 05:54PM) (new)

Marialyce (absltmom, yaya) *** Wilkie Collins was under the influence of opium when he wrote this book. He suffered from painful gout. (acute inflammatory arthritis of the joint, red and tender


Marialyce (absltmom, yaya) So, I have my eye on Franklin Blake. There is something about him and Rosanna Spearman that is off. Although, Rachel is acting a little funky too! I guess I have not solved the case in 100 pages.

On the side, I like the choice of the name Betteredge for our storyteller so far. He does have a better edge to solving the crime since he is right in the middle of the action.

What's everyone's thoughts now?

Marialyce (absltmom, yaya) Does anyone think it is odd that Rachel does not want to speak with the police? Does she have her suspicions as to who the thief is? It is also very strange that she puts the diamond into an Indian case which does not even have a lock. I think there is something afoot here!

message 6: by Amanda (new)

Amanda | 118 comments I am definitely not quick enough to solve this mystery in the first hundred pages! I am about half way through chapter 11 and I don't have a clue lol. There are the suspicious characters though, like Rosanna and Mr.Franklin...for me right now it could be anyone!

Marialyce (absltmom, yaya) I guess that is the sign of a good mystery right? Keeps you guessing right up to the very end.

The only one I am ruling out right now is Betteredge and maybe Penelope. I even think Lady Verinder looks suspicious. She might want to get rid of the diamond because it came from her estranged brother and why did he give it to a niece he never even met???

message 8: by Tera, First Chick (new)

Tera | 2564 comments Mod
can I make a suggestion of putting all the discussions into one thread instead of making a new thread for every couple of chapters? As many chapters as this book is youll end up with 20+ threads. It will make it easier for you and for others that may want to read archive discussions later to only have one or two threads to read through rather than 25

Marialyce (absltmom, yaya) Oh sure, Tera. Whatever makes it easier.

message 10: by Vicki (new)

Vicki I have read 90 pages and I have no clue. Oh well, I think I'd rather not know for sure, because it keeps me reading.

Marialyce (absltmom, yaya) I have a few questions that perhaps putting our heads together we might answer.

1. Why is the diamond given to Rachel only if her mother is alive?

2. How come the dogs who were let out at the end of the evening didn't make a sound if there was an intruder?

3. Franklin complains about not sleeping well, but when the doctor offers to help he is rejected. Why?

4. What about Mr Godfrey and Rachel? There seems to be some tension there.

5. In India where caste is everything why would the three Indians give up their caste of being Brahmins to come to the estate?

message 12: by Marialyce (absltmom, yaya) (last edited Aug 19, 2010 06:34PM) (new)

Marialyce (absltmom, yaya) So this is the birthday dinner chapter which seems to go down hill pretty quickly. No one seems to jovial and the Indians make a reappearance. Rachel is wearing the diamond, but has been told that in India she would be killed for the diamond. "Though the Moonstone inspires a sense of exoticness and danger, its symbolism also connects it to female sexuality—Rachel's sexuality specifically. The diamond is connected with female forces through the symbol of the (feminine) moon.(cycles) The circumstances and consequences of the theft connect the stone to Rachel's sexuality. The theft is committed on the night of Rachel's eighteenth birthday, her coming-of-age. The strange dinner conversation on the night of the birthday—especially the conversation of Franklin Blake, who speaks of female infidelity and breeding bulls—is sexual in subtext"

This I didn't see when I read it, but so very interesting the sub currents that run through the novel. Did any one pick up on this? Do you think that Franklin and Rachel have been intimate?

message 13: by Amanda (new)

Amanda | 118 comments I never picked up on this while reading these chapters. However, reading that passage and thinking back, I can see how there would be a sexual subtext. I would never have picked up on it myself. There are so many surface details that I think I would have to read it a second or third time to pick out all the little details hidden throughout the text.

Marialyce (absltmom, yaya) Who knew when I read this in high school that this was there simmering as it were under the surface? Of course I guess we could not count on Sister Mary Anne to fill us girls in either :)

message 15: by Rebecca (last edited Aug 20, 2010 07:35AM) (new)

Rebecca Definatley something happened. Because they were decorating the door one minute and the next they were colder to each other. Marialyce do you mean Geoffery or Frankin as far as tension goes? I noticed it more with Franklin and the decorating.? Is Collin's showing us intimacy changes a realationship?

Dr Candy the Doctor? To funny

Are we more suspicious of characters who say to much or to little about the Moonstone?

I was quite shocked to that Rachel would be wearing such a valuable gift making it very much a present and noticable. This maybe also to do with her sexuality and coming of age. Perhaps showing off in a way?

message 16: by Marialyce (absltmom, yaya) (last edited Aug 20, 2010 02:42PM) (new)

Marialyce (absltmom, yaya) I so agree about the showing off, Rebecca. What's the modern saying? If you got it flaunt it! Rachel is definitely doing that. Then again, if I had a diamond like that I would flaunt it too!

I was referring to the tension between Franklin and Rachel and think that you are so right about how intimacy changes a relationship. Collins sets everyone up just perfectly don't you think? While for a bit we decide it could not be a certain character, he throws a curve and puts bits of suspicion right back in.

message 17: by Rebecca (last edited Aug 21, 2010 10:35AM) (new)

Rebecca Definatley Marialyce each one has their oddities. Collins is very good at throw us off the "scent" Does anyone understand the "Bouncers" character/role?
All I have seen so far is them laughing.
I also don't get the reference to "O" is it soemething British I am not getting?

message 18: by Meera (new)

Meera Do you feel as if we're supposed to suspect Franklin because it seems like Rosanna and Rachel think he did it? Rosanna is infatuated with him and basically told Franklin that noone will find the moonstone. He seemed to think that it means she took it but to me it sounded like she was going to protect him. Rachel didn't want Cuff to listen to Franklin. Now, I was suspicious of Franklin when he left to get the police but now I'm thinking it has to be someone else since the two women think he did it.

I'm really enjoying this book. Anyone else think that Betterbridge is a flawed narrator? Because he seems to be missing the subtext of what is happening.

message 19: by Meera (new)

Meera Marialyce wrote: "I have a few questions that perhaps putting our heads together we might answer.

I puzzled over some of this too Marialyce.
1. I think the brother wanted his sister to suffer. Rachel would have kept the diamond whereas his sister would have gotten rid of it. He seemed like a vengeful man.
2. I think the diamond is still in the house. I had thought that Franklin had taken it with him to get the police but now I don't think that.
3. I don't know about this one. Franklin has an addiction to something?
4. I've gotten to chapter 13 so Godfrey seems to have been denied Rachel's hand.
5. The priests care more about getting the stone back than about themselves. I hope that they do end up getting it.

Marialyce (absltmom, yaya) Thanks, MG! Sorry I have been away for a bit and am only about ready to start Chapter 13. Since Tera has asked us to keep it pretty much on one thread perhaps we can just state first what chapter we are referring to.

Rebecca, I think the Bouncers were Collins's way of poking fun at what we might now called "air heads". He makes them seem as if they just go "bouncing" along through life with not a care or thought in their heads. Although...anything is possible in this mystery and therefore perhaps their behavior has something behind it as well..

This novel was called a romance although "romantic" is not what one has yet seen. I guess perhaps they did not have the term mystery yet. I will have to do some research on the term

message 21: by Meera (last edited Aug 24, 2010 10:46AM) (new)

Meera I'm in part II, ch 5 now and I see that I was wrong about certain things. Is anyone else there yet? I don't want to write any spoilers.

message 22: by Grace (new)

Grace (graycie) | 8 comments MG wrote: "I'm in part II, ch 5 now and I see that I was wrong about certain things. Is anyone else there yet? I don't want to write any spoilers."

I finished part I and there's 2 characters that I suspect. It will be fun finding out if I am right.
If you would like to discuss it, you can send me a message. So we don't spoil anything for the others.

message 23: by Vicki (last edited Aug 24, 2010 11:53AM) (new)

Vicki I apologize if some of my thoughts are in the wrong thread. I have finished up through chapter 13 if anyone doesn't want to read what I am writing. And I am sorry I have been quiet, I was still sick, but am finally back on track and ready to read and discuss :)

I agree with MG about the brother wanting Lady Verinder to suffer. I feel that the curse of the Moonstone is already starting to take play with Rachel's bizzare behavior. I am interested, if I am correct, to see what else may happen. I also found it interesting that Rachel did not want her closet to be searched. You would think she would have the least to hide.

So I thought she was favoring Franklin a bit, but then she went a bit crazy on him, so I don't know. Could she blame him for bringing the moonstone into her life, or does she feel he has something to do with it.

I feel we were right about Rosanna and the connection we may have with Franklin. Their encounter in the library was a bit strange.

Ha, now that I have made a few assertions. I am ready for the book to prove me wrong.

I still like Betteredge as a narrator and even more as he brings Penelope's thoughts in. She is an interesting one.

Marialyce, I know that Tera didn't want threads every few chapters, but maybe we could have one for each part. So if someone is talking in part two then they don't have to worry about spoiling anything they concluded at the end of part one. It would only be a few threads then and we could mark chapters we read to in each part. Just an idea :)

Marialyce (absltmom, yaya) Great Idea, Vicki! I will start a thread called Part 2 for those of us wh are there.

I, myself am only up to chapter 13 so I am not there yet.

Thanks, again Vicki for a great idea.

message 25: by Rebecca (new)

Rebecca Does anyone else feel that Rachel and her mother's relationship is strained? odd?. I feel like somewhere there is going to be a questions of paternity?

Marialyce (absltmom, yaya) Oh, wow! I think I like that train of thought. I didn't even think of that, but you are so right, Rebecca. Mother/daughter interaction (or lack of the same) at its worse. There is something not right with the two of them . ...another consideration to think of!

BTW I did add some threads for those who have finished Part 1.

message 27: by Vicki (new)

Vicki I think we have a very odd group of people here :) Rebecca, you did make a good point. They don't seem very close at all.

message 28: by Shay (new)

Shay | 284 comments Why does Collins have Betterege read Robinson Crusoe as his "balm" not the Bible? It's telling about his character.? Not religious. It strikes me as akin to people who like lighthouses- solitary, melancholy, etc.

I believe Dickens was his editor for this, and many other of Collins' stories. I wonder how much his association with Dickens influenced his naming of characters. Dickens often gave his characters "telling" names. So, Gabriel Betterege- better meaning he has a better character than others? Also, Gabriel is the angel whose trumpet announces the end of time and Final/Last Judgment. GODfrey ABLEwhite- a philanthropist.

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