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Questions and Hellos > Horrible news about Dorchester

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message 1: by Melissa (new)

Melissa Helwig Has everyone already heard the news? I'll recap it for everyone in case you haven't heard. Starting next month Dorchester will no longer be publishing mass market paperbacks. They will only be publishing books as trade paperbacks and e-books. And because of the change all books (except e-books) will be delayed by 6-8 months.

Brian Keene has stated on his website that he has decided to part ways with Dorchester because of the change.

I've been a subscriber to the Leisure Horror Book Club for a few years now and am really disappointed by these changes. I prefer mass market paperbacks to trade paperbacks. I don't even know if I'll be able to afford to stay in the club since trade paperbacks cost almost double what a mass market paperback does. I also haven't jumped on the Kindle bandwagon yet and don't know if I ever will. I prefer the feel of a real book. What does everyone think of this?


message 2: by [deleted user] (new)

To be honest, I'm pissed off, and that's all I'm gonna say.


message 3: by [deleted user] (new)

Oh, and one more thing: I fucking hate e-books. I don't want a goddamn text document, I want a BOOK. So, yeah, THAT'S all I'm gonna say.


message 4: by Amanda (new)

Amanda Lyons (amandamlyons) I prefer real books too. Also I was planning on submitting a book to them :(. THis really bums me out!


message 5: by Tressa (new)

Tressa  (moanalisa) Well, since I've been enjoying ebooks, I'm happy with the news, but sad for those who prefer real books, especially the affordable paperbacks.


message 6: by MaryJo (new)

MaryJo (lynxette2002) | 4 comments Iam really sad to hear this. I have really enjoyed this book club and the authors, Brian Keene included.
I will have to see how this affects the club and its monthly books, before I decide to stay/leave the club.

I had use my sons Kindle for 3 months and think it is a great idea for some people. Iam not one of those people. I prefer to have a real book in my hands and turn the actual page.


message 7: by Deniz (last edited Aug 15, 2010 07:36AM) (new)

Deniz | 10 comments Well, it is partly a fault of Dorchester, which claims that book sales are dwindling because they cannot find shelf-place for mass market paperbacks. I think this is related to the actual sales figure which is very low because the quality of recent publications was really bad and books are simply ignored by reading audience. It was as if anyone who got up early in the morning used to submit a book and it was published without much deliberation editing whatsoever. I have already stopped buying them as they were wasting my reading time. Who remembers Michael Laimo by now? It was hailed as the second coming of Stephen King just a few years ago but he was actually very average guy. I bought two books by him and swore not to buy a Leisure book unless I am very bored.

Sorry for those who like the books but sometimes you cannot argue against market dynamics.

That said I may visit Amazon and buy some paperbacks now while they are still lasting just for keeping a stock in future.


message 8: by MaryJo (new)

MaryJo (lynxette2002) | 4 comments I agree that some of the books arent the best quality, and those - I pass on to one of my unsuspecting friends! lol..

I have been trying to stock up on some books, because I have to have knee surgery so I need something to keep me occupied!


message 9: by Deniz (new)

Deniz | 10 comments MaryJo wrote: "I agree that some of the books arent the best quality, and those - I pass on to one of my unsuspecting friends! lol..

I have been trying to stock up on some books, because I have to have knee su..."


Hope you get well soon, and even if you cannot stock, we can always send you some:)


message 10: by MaryJo (new)

MaryJo (lynxette2002) | 4 comments Thanks Deniz!!!


message 11: by Amanda (new)

Amanda Lyons (amandamlyons) I agree on Laimo (haha how accurate is that name?) and also add that I wasn't fond of what i did read of Bryan Smith's House of Blood either. Unfortunately Leisure was one of the biggest, if not THE biggest source of affordable horror novels for fans of the genre and the change is definitely going to be felt by those of us who simply can't afford the publications of Cemetery Dance, Subterranean Press and others like them no matter how much we'd love to. Outside if used books stores where are we going ot be able to get books?


message 12: by Kasia (new)

Kasia (kasia_s) I'm friends with Laimo ( in person, not online) and he told me why he wasn't writing for them anymore, I wont say why but it's more about business than his lack of talent, I see that some of you don't like his stuff, which is fine because not ever book out there will have 100% of praise, but to say you won't buy Leisure books because he wrote for them is stupid.

Amanda, do you think you're better than Michael, you seem to make fun of his name, yet he is a published author and you're not, seem like a bit of jealousy is going on.


message 13: by Mark (new)

Mark (markmckeejr) Deniz wrote: "..the quality of recent publications was really bad.."

I have to disagree w/ that. Many of my current favorite authors are/were/have-been published by Leisure over the last couple of years. I can't thank them enough for bringing readers affordable reprints of Delirium, Bloodletting, Necro, and several other small press publishers' work.

Begrudgingly, I'll be a Leisure fan, even in electronic form. It's not the same - at all, and I'll probably end up waiting on the trade paperbacks even though I prefer the smaller mass markets. But, as long as they continue to have, what I consider, a top-notch author stable, I'll be a patron no matter the format.


message 14: by Deniz (last edited Aug 17, 2010 10:39AM) (new)

Deniz | 10 comments Kasia wrote: "I'm friends with Laimo ( in person, not online) and he told me why he wasn't writing for them anymore, I wont say why but it's more about business than his lack of talent, I see that some of you do..."

I suggest you to read my message again.. I didn't mean to say I won't buy Leisure because Leisure published Laimo; I said I bought two back-to-back books by Laimo published by Leisure and they were poor so I assumed that Leisure was not paying attention to what they were publishing. I particularly talked about Laimo because the hype was really high. Of course Laimo is not the only example. Of all Leisure authors, only Brian Keene. Scott Nicholson and Stephen Laws appear to be worthy of reading.

Brian Smith was also terrible; Gary Becken??? (sorry for spelling but I don't remember his name) was so unremarkable.

Leisure authors seem to pump out novels too quickly and Leisure itself does not pay so much attention to the quality rather than quantity.

I rather prefer Pinnacle books for better horror reading. I know they do not publish many but...


message 15: by Kasia (new)

Kasia (kasia_s) Deniz wrote: "Kasia wrote: "I'm friends with Laimo ( in person, not online) and he told me why he wasn't writing for them anymore, I wont say why but it's more about business than his lack of talent, I see that ..."

"I bought two books by him and swore not to buy a Leisure book unless I am very bored." how many ways can this be interpreted?? Whatever man, its a free country, buy what you want, not that paper books will be around forever. Me must have totally opposite taste because I can't stand Stephen Laws books, they are unreadable and Keene is middle of the road, so I would not miss those two.


message 16: by Deniz (last edited Aug 17, 2010 10:50AM) (new)

Deniz | 10 comments Another two terrible books were Demon Eyes (by L.H. Maynard and M.P.N. Sims) and This Rage of Echoes (Simon Clark). The first one was particularly laughable. And the second one was particularly full of logic holes. And I said: Enough is enough.

I vaguely remember that Paying the Piper by Simon Wood and Halloweenland by Al Sarrantonio were mildly interesting...I must be digressing, sorry.


message 17: by Kasia (new)

Kasia (kasia_s) Deniz wrote: "Another two terrible books were Demon Eyes (by L.H. Maynard and M.P.N. Sims) and This Rage of Echoes (Simon Clark). The first one was particularly laughable. And the second one was particularly ful..."

I have to agree, The Rage of Echoes was horrible, I was shocked that Clark wrote it, and L.H Maynard and M.P.N Sims write their own 5 star reviews on Amazon, although their books are very weak. Sucks that now you will have to pay 20-40 bucks to read a good horror book, Leisure was at least a good source of finding something that was pretty cheap and I liked most of their things,.


message 18: by Mark (new)

Mark (markmckeejr) Scott Nicholson was only published by Pinnacle.


message 19: by Deniz (last edited Aug 17, 2010 11:03AM) (new)

Deniz | 10 comments "I bought two books by him and swore not to buy a Leisure book unless I am very bored." how many ways can this be interpreted??"

Maybe that's because English is not my native language so I may have been expressing myself not that good while I am thinking I am doing it well:)

I certainly agree with you that Leisure was a good source and initially I was really excited about their policy as I had been really itching for a good horror story since Stephen King stopped writing horror (for more than 20 years?)

Besides Kindle works against me because in my country you cannot use a Kindle because of goddamn copyrights and I have to pay a trade paper back price PLUS a huge shipping price almost equal to the book's. Anyway, happy readings Kasia.


message 20: by Kasia (new)

Kasia (kasia_s) Deniz wrote: ""I bought two books by him and swore not to buy a Leisure book unless I am very bored." how many ways can this be interpreted??"

Maybe that's because English is not my native language so I may ..."

It's all good, I didn't mean to make you feel bad, I just wanted to defend a friend, I can certainly understand you being more selective since you live in Turkey and probably pay huge shipping costs and once you get your book you want to love it, I totally understand that.

You can try reading e-books on your computer although it's draining on the eyes.


message 21: by Amanda (new)

Amanda Lyons (amandamlyons) Kasia wrote: "I'm friends with Laimo ( in person, not online) and he told me why he wasn't writing for them anymore, I wont say why but it's more about business than his lack of talent, I see that some of you do..."

Not even remotely. I'm sure knowing him makes you more sensitive to criticism of his work but it was honestly a joke and wasn't meant to actually piss anyone off. I have no idea where I stand on publication because I haven't even submitted mine yet and don't presume I'm a better writer than anyone actually. I just know what i like in other writers and when I see writing bugs or plots i don't like based on that reading. For all I know I could try Laimo again and find I like one of his other books. I know I did so with Layman who I made a similar joke about.


message 22: by Kasia (new)

Kasia (kasia_s) Amanda wrote: "Kasia wrote: "I'm friends with Laimo ( in person, not online) and he told me why he wasn't writing for them anymore, I wont say why but it's more about business than his lack of talent, I see that ..."

You mean Laymon not Layman I'm presuming.. well, if someone is going to critique they should not only write better but spell things correctly, besides you were making fun of his name, not even pointing out things you didn't like or agree on.


message 23: by Amanda (new)

Amanda Lyons (amandamlyons) Kasia wrote: "Amanda wrote: "Kasia wrote: "I'm friends with Laimo ( in person, not online) and he told me why he wasn't writing for them anymore, I wont say why but it's more about business than his lack of tale..."

Sorry but typos happen and I'm not always aware of the mistakes until after someone brings them up. And no my fiction writing isn't the same as my conversational or review writing (Both are casual for me and not intended to be expert opinion, only my own.) so attacking it doesn't mean you're making a point about my writing versus Laimo.

I just wasn't very fond of his book The Demonologist and felt like it failed to convey the plot he set out. It got farcical for me about the time things were supposed to be coming to the climax with the father facing what was inside him toward the end end of the book.


message 24: by Kasia (new)

Kasia (kasia_s) Amanda wrote: "Kasia wrote: "Amanda wrote: "Kasia wrote: "I'm friends with Laimo ( in person, not online) and he told me why he wasn't writing for them anymore, I wont say why but it's more about business than hi..."

All your writing represents you, good luck with your books Amanda!


message 25: by Amanda (new)

Amanda Lyons (amandamlyons) Kasia wrote: "Amanda wrote: "Kasia wrote: "Amanda wrote: "Kasia wrote: "I'm friends with Laimo ( in person, not online) and he told me why he wasn't writing for them anymore, I wont say why but it's more about b..."

Bah, I write informally on here in all forms while in my fiction I follow grammar and such more consistently. I'm sure that's true of many people both writer and reader.

Busting my butt about my writing simply because I don't agree with your opinions on fiction only makes it clear you feel that people shouldn't disagree with your opinions or they're incapable of having an opinion. Which is in fact far more immature than my disagreeing with you about an author's books.


message 26: by Kasia (new)

Kasia (kasia_s) Amanda wrote: "Kasia wrote: "Amanda wrote: "Kasia wrote: "Amanda wrote: "Kasia wrote: "I'm friends with Laimo ( in person, not online) and he told me why he wasn't writing for them anymore, I wont say why but it'..."

Who says I don't let people have an opinion? Let it go, my God.. seriously.. and don't try to play who's more immature game with me, I'm not in kindergarten


message 27: by [deleted user] (new)

Back to topic, please.


message 28: by Amy (new)

Amy (bibliocrates) Personally, I like trade paperbacks more than MMPs. In fact, I hate MMP's in my personal library, which is not to say I don't enjoy reading them. Some of my favorite horror authors (most of them, actually) only publish MMPs, so that kinda sucks that many of them will part with Dorchester as a result of these upcoming changes! I love Leisure Horror Book Club, but don't that I will be able to afford continued membership with them. On the other hand, any books I obtain through them will be more likely to stay in my personal library.

Regarding ebooks, I already have to sit at my computer for long periods for school work, I don't like to do my leisure reading that way. I like to curl up on the sofa with a blankey and a hot cuppa when I'm reading my BOOK... so, not so thrilled about this recent ebook craze! Perhaps, if I had a Kindle or some such device, I would feel differently, until then...


message 29: by [deleted user] (new)

I prefer trade paperbacks as well, but MMPs are cheaper, usually by half.


message 30: by Laurie (last edited Aug 18, 2010 08:57AM) (new)

Laurie   (barklesswagmore) I have an e-reader but I'm curious about the cost of these new Dorchester ebooks. If they're reasonable I'll try them out but if they're almost as much as a paperback there's no way I'll buy them, especially if they have DRM. You can't trade them, sell them or give them away and honestly Dorchester's books have been very hit or miss with me. I can go over to Smashwords.com and purchase many of Necro's titles for cheap (not to mention many of the other established niche ebook retailers) so I wonder how this will all play out.


message 31: by Tammy (new)

Tammy (tbrittian) Kasia wrote: "I'm friends with Laimo ( in person, not online) and he told me why he wasn't writing for them anymore, I wont say why but it's more about business than his lack of talent, I see that some of you do..."

Not everyone's writing style is the same, Keene and Rollo are my faves but I like Laimo. His stories do seem to start a little slow but they pick up in the middle and he ties everything together nicely:) I have several of his books on my to read list.


message 32: by Chris (last edited Aug 20, 2010 03:19AM) (new)

Chris (flahorrorwriter) Thanks for whoever corrected Deniz on the Scott Nicholson thing. He never published thru Leisure. I just saw two new trade pb's of his available from B&N by small-press publishers, too.
I just read the news last night about Leisure and while not surprised, I share the disappointment. Most of us know how important Leisure has been putting out (for the most part) quality horror and introducing us to authors like Brian Keene, Bryan Smith, Ed Lee, Nate Kenyon, Gord Rollo, Everson, etc, for YEARS and as someone who works in the book retail world, I have seen a sharp decline in book sales over all...none of this is really BECAUSE of the emergence and growing popularity of eBooks....this is just the natural evolution of things. And Leisure is just doing what it has to do to stay alive and competitive. I do now have NOOK for PC and will probably buy those Leisure titles on eBook is I cannot afford the tp first...but I will probably spend LESS on those and ONLY buy the ones I really know I want. My guess is that Leisure's tp editions will still be priced better than most. I hope.

As for Laimo, I have read two of his novels (and have a few more), but his last book I read, The Demonologist, fell short for me. Having said that, he was a menber of an online horror writer's group I was part of back in the late 90's and I was happy to see him have some success and I wish him the best. He's a great guy and a good writer. Not every author is going to hit one out of the ballpark every single time.


message 33: by Laurie (new)

Laurie   (barklesswagmore) This , from Brian Keene's website, does not sound good at all. . .

Apparently they've laid off the horror editing staff.


message 34: by Chris (new)

Chris (flahorrorwriter) I just posted that over at HA, too. Getting rid of Don d'Auria was a major mistake. I think Brian's analysis is spot-on and Leisure is doomed.


message 35: by Kasia (new)

Kasia (kasia_s) Sounds like they want to cut any spending and keep all the profits, so shady


message 36: by Chris (new)

Chris (flahorrorwriter) Yes, indeed. I do understand everyone and I mean everyone--including MY company--has cut spending and consolidated to a degree to remain viable and profitable...but doing something as laying off the editor solely responsible for making Leisure Horror a name in the industry and bringing forth such fantastic new talent (not to mention reissuing all the Laymon novels) is a huge mistake and one they will pay dearly for. The backlash from this is gonna cut deep. Trust me. I may not purchase another Leisure title based on Brian's comments on his website. No joke.


message 37: by Amanda (new)

Amanda Lyons (amandamlyons) I just hope D'Auria finds a new job where he can try to help new and existing writers somewhere. I heard good things about him over the years.


message 38: by Chris (new)

Chris (flahorrorwriter) Me too, Amanda.


message 39: by Kasia (new)

Kasia (kasia_s) Chris wrote: "Yes, indeed. I do understand everyone and I mean everyone--including MY company--has cut spending and consolidated to a degree to remain viable and profitable...but doing something as laying off t..."

Very admirable of Keene to do this, and I agree, their greed is so off putting thy any serious book lover will think twice before getting any of their ebooks or whatever.


message 40: by Deniz (new)

Deniz | 10 comments Mark wrote: "Scott Nicholson was only published by Pinnacle."

Oh, thanks! and this consolidates my opinion (at least for me): Pinnacle places more emphasis on quality compared to Leisure.


message 41: by Deniz (new)

Deniz | 10 comments It is also interesting to note that the re-releases of Robert McCammon, Peter Straub and Dan Simmons titles are not in mass market paperbacks but in tp's. This is perhaps a trend in the publishing world and it affects the horror genre worst. Even King's Under the Dome is released in tp (but this may be due to the length of the book)

Amazon offers the trade paperback of UTD at 11.69$
Just After Sunset in paperback:at 9.99$


message 42: by Chris (new)

Chris (flahorrorwriter) Deniz: That is your opinion. Leisure has put out dozens of quality horror titles since Don D'Auria took over back in the late 90's and introduced readers to authors that are now household names to horror fiction readers. Without him, I think Keene's departure will be the first of many. This does not bode well at all for the future of the Leisure Horror line.


message 43: by Chris (new)

Chris (flahorrorwriter) Other than Nicholson--who by the way, hasn't put out a new horror title in almost two years--no one reputable has put out anything from Pinnacle. Even Signet doesn't really publish much horror of note, except Bentley Little.


message 44: by Deniz (last edited Aug 22, 2010 05:56AM) (new)

Deniz | 10 comments Chris wrote: "Deniz: That is your opinion. Leisure has put out dozens of quality horror titles since Don D'Auria took over back in the late 90's and introduced readers to authors that are now household names t..."

Quite naturally my opinion and you are free to disagree as much as me expressing mine...

What I actually meant is Leisure published crap titles as many as good books. This is not a very attractive publishing policy for lukewarm horror aficianados like me. Out of every two books I purchased from Leisure, one was terrible and the other was good but not that good to make up the former. So after a while I quit. The only remarkable author that made a splash seems Brian Keene. That may be one of the reasons why the Horror line is in the red. My primary reference source for the quality of a book is Amazon reviews. For a Leisure title, first come the reviews that heap praise upon praise (probably from friends, publishing contacts etc). They are followed by lukewarm reviews by real horror readers and then one-star reviews start to pop up from general audience who just want to read a good horror story now and then and who are disappointed terribly. The initial five-star rating goes down to three or three and half quickly. This is not good publicity...


message 45: by Deniz (last edited Aug 22, 2010 05:59AM) (new)

Deniz | 10 comments I am not saying Leisure did not good things. It at least made Edward Lee and Jack Ketchum books accessible, two authors who I would not be able to read because of high prices. Besides, it is an affordable line which somehow satisfies the horror bug inside us but they could be much more selective and filter out certain trash instead of publishing every amateur Stephen King-wannabe who has sent a draft to them.

Jonathan Maberry is also a Pinnacle author and he is certainly much better than many Leisure published authors. Maybe Pinnacle, or Signet by the way, is more meticilous when it comes to publishing horror books, who knows? Maybe horror market is towards its extinction? Dan Simmons talks about the revival of the genre in 2000s in his (a little bit too long) introduction to the 20th anniversary edition of Carrion Comfort with certain "fantastic authors" but he does not give any name. I would like to sincerely buy and read those authors.


message 46: by Chris (last edited Aug 22, 2010 06:01AM) (new)

Chris (flahorrorwriter) Thanks for bringing up Maberry, who in my opinion, in a major talent. I don't pay much attention to reviews and thanks to the internet anyone can post their opinion on a book. Generally, I will pick up and buy any new title by an author I like...usually, I am not disappointed. Are some better than others? of course. Give credit to Leisure for having the balls to really be the only pb publisher to even have a Horror line.


message 47: by Amanda (last edited Aug 22, 2010 10:51PM) (new)

Amanda Lyons (amandamlyons) Chris wrote: "Other than Nicholson--who by the way, hasn't put out a new horror title in almost two years--no one reputable has put out anything from Pinnacle. Even Signet doesn't really publish much horror of ..."

Doesn't Tamara Thorne go through Pinnacle? I happen to think she's pretty great.


message 48: by Amanda (new)

Amanda Lyons (amandamlyons) Chris wrote: "Thanks for bringing up Maberry, who in my opinion, in a major talent. I don't pay much attention to reviews and thanks to the internet anyone can post their opinion on a book. Generally, I will p..."

I have to agree. Leisure has long been the primary and most consistent source for most of us horror fans. It's not even that the target market has gone down all that much since the 80s and 90s either.
I think it's more the shlocky, for a buck authors of those decades that did harm than those that came through Leisure.

I found quite a few great writers through them like Jack Ketchum, Richard Laymon, Jemiah Jefferson, Maryann Mitchell, Douglas Clegg, Brian Keene, Al Sarrantonio, John Skipp, Graham Masterton and I'm sure there even more than that. I rarely ran across a book I didn't like from their line and when I did I chalked to it up to an issue with the writer or my own interests and not Leisure itself.


message 49: by Amanda (new)

Amanda Lyons (amandamlyons) Can you guys think of many publishers that publish horror beyond Leisure and the Pinnacle and Signet lines? I'm going to have to figure out who I'll be getting my books from and who would even be considering horror fiction from new authors at this point.


message 50: by Laurie (new)

Laurie   (barklesswagmore) Good question. The only pubs to come to mind are small presses who publish limited editions that I can't afford.


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