Bookclub inspired by Feeding the Squirrels - A Novella discussion

Monogamy unnatural for men?

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message 1: by Roy (new)

Roy (mplwdscribe) | 7 comments Mod
Some say that men are predestined by biology to be serial lovers. The Bible starts off with a tale of enduring love at first sight, and the original sin is not the failure of Adam and Eve to be true to each other, but failing to obey the word of God. If you put that story aside and instead think of cavepeople as the origin of mankind, the consensus is that men have been hunters and gatherers from the start. Women, being the ones capable of giving birth and providing nutrition from their bodies, were natural nesters. Obviously much has changed in society from then till now, but what has probably altered least of all is our DNA. That being the case, is it genetically unnatural for a man to settle down with one woman till death do they part? Do monogamy and marriage run counter to the most primitive urge of men to spread their seed? Or is this just a convenient excuse for the proliferation of babies daddies? Please share your thoughts on this matter.

- Roy

message 2: by Nkanyezi (new)

Nkanyezi Payne | 1 comments I sent this topic out to a few friends of mine and this was one of the female responses I received.
" can be just as monogamous as women. Men have had the excuse of being male to allow them to get away with bad behavior. That being said,I do believe that 9 out of 10 men will most likely cheat at some point in
time because that's just the way the world is now. Hell even women are lowering the bar. How many women do you know that have or would sleep with a married man or even with a man that they know have a longterm girlfriend at home? People are selfish, malicious, ect. Men are just doing what's allowed by society and what women allow them to do. If a man is just a lying, cheating, fool, gathering hoes in every corner...well now that's just disrespectful. Not only to women but to himself also. Just as we women say
our body's are temples, a man's body is a dwelling place for the Lord too.
Men shouldn't be so easy to jump onto and into swine and corrupt their own bodies and souls. We are humans governed by the Holy spirit, not goats...mating only because the scent is in the air. Men have a mind, a brain, the ability to decide right from wrong and make choices. If anyone,male or female can't live with the vows, don't make them and waste everyone's time.

message 3: by Nina (new)

Nina | 4 comments my thoughts and feelings on infidelity stem from my life experiences and the things I have learned from selfish ex lovers. I believe that men have the capability to be monogomous creatures, but perhaps lack the motivation to do so. This is, of course, a gross generalization. Not all men are unfaithful just as not all women are faithful. I believe it is difficult for a group of people (men in this case) to usurp a stereotype that is so convenient for them to fall into. By making statements like this, true or not, it perpetuates a stereotype that gets men laid. Why would a man try to counteract it when it is completely acceptable to be "biologically built to spread your seed"?

That being said, I believe infidelity is caused by an astounding lack of communication and/or extreme selfishness on the part of either partner in a relationship. I am the child of divorced parents and divorced grandparents whose marriages ended because the patriarch was unfaithful. All of my serious relationships, with the exception of my very first, ALL started from unfaithful men. One had a baby momma who wouldn't put out (but I would), one "never said we'd be together" and had gfs/live ins and now has a wife, yet still calls, one had a gf (and continues to keep one every time he calls me) that he claims he does not like (but he likes being involved with me). I could go on, but I'd rather not. All of these men could all be isolated incidents, but the one thing they all lack is the ability to actively communicate. You ask any of them a direct question - they will either just not answer, say they don't want to talk about it, dismiss the subject all together or lie by omission (omitting the truth, gentleman, is still lying.) These past "relationships" were crap, to say the least. BUT they did teach me the things I would not accept out of another person. At the time I did not, but now I have too much respect for myself to ever accept or entertain the notion of dating someone who can not or will not communicate with me.

I believe their infidelity was based on their inability and/or unwillingness to communicate with their partners. I believe most of them are also inherently selfish people which will keep them bed hopping, unfaithful and ultimately extremely lonely, empty human beings.

message 4: by Kristy (new)

Kristy Alley (kristyalley) | 3 comments It's interesting to read people's comments. My experiences with men have actually been quite different. My parents are still married. Pretty much every guy I was ever involved with in my younger days begged me to settle down with him but I was not interested. I've been happily married for 14 years now and have four beautiful children, and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that my husband has never cheated. We have an amazing relationship and are very compatible in every way, if you know what I mean.

I know there are worthless men out there. I have just never been attracted to them. I also believe that we teach people how we expect to be treated. I know that good women can get involved with "bad" men, but it's hard for me not to think that being strong, outspoken, and in control of my own life has sent the signal to the wrong men to steer clear, KWIM?

message 5: by Kenneth (new)

Kenneth (kjmaclean) | 1 comments Right on Sassy--
If you believe that human beings are biological automatons, pieces of meat motivated by primitive sexual impulses and incapable of love or discernment, then I suppose you'd think that men are destined to be cheaters and scumbags. That idea comes from the mechanistic view of consciousness and life, popularized by B.F. Skinner and other dead-heads who have no conception of self.
Ladies, you choose the men you hang around with. You are responsible for your life -- don't blame it on some guy.
I have been happily married for 30 years. I love women and have normal sexual desires, but I sure wouldn't wreck a great relationship for a one-night stand.

message 6: by Nina (new)

Nina | 4 comments OK, Sassy,

You clearly have missed the point. I dont believe a woman is to be blamed for "attracting the wrong man" I think a lot of my relationships have stemmed from my lack of exposure to what men should be like. My dad skipped out on me. My grandfather did as well. I did not / do not have any strong male role models in my life. As a teenager - i latched onto men now knowing what to be wary of, deem not acceptable, etc etc.

Sassy, it's really easy to sit in high judgment of women when your father has been around and is still around. I had to TEACH MYSELF what a real man looks like. I HAD TO TEACH MYSELF how to not accept mediocracy from other people ESPECIALLY men. Your father, whether he actively did or not, taught or told you who to stay away from,

I am not making excuses for my choices nor do i regret them. Guilt is a useless, all consuming emotion. I dont do things that would evoke such an impotent emotion. All I am saying is try removing yourself from your moral high ground before you go spouting about how women "attract" ain't shit men. I mean, really.

message 7: by Kristy (new)

Kristy Alley (kristyalley) | 3 comments I'm sorry if you felt like I was sitting in judgement of you or if it came across like I've lived an oh-so-perfect life and justly deserve it. I had plenty of issues with my Dad and family growing up that were scarring but don't need to be posted for all the internet to see. We're on good terms now and I have worked through those things to the point that I no longer need to drag them out on a constant basis. But for whatever reason, I dealt with my personal damage by inflicting damage on other people rather than heaping more onto myself. I'm not sure why some of us do that and some go the other way. I just remember so many times that I was crying and hurt that I would tell myself "No one will ever make me feel this way again. NO ONE!"

So if I seem to over-emphasize strength, it's because that was my tool for survival. I have made mistakes in my own healing process, they just didn't happen to be the mistake of letting men treat me like shit.

message 8: by Lisa (new)

Lisa (lisabethdarling) | 1 comments Monogamy is a societal and religious constraint. It is not natural to human beings...male or female. It is helpful not to confuse sex/attraction/desire with romantic or true love. They are not mutually exclusive concepts but they don't have to go hand-in-hand either.

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