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book talk > Virgin Heroines?!?!

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message 1: by Emily (new)

Emily | 2 comments Mod
Virgin Heroines?!?!

I don’t know if anyone else out there was annoyed by the fact that the heroines in Darkest Night & Darkest Kiss were both virgins. Maybe I’m annoyed because I just read Kresley Cole’s A Hunger Like No Other and she was a virgin, too! I’ve only read 3 paranormal romances, so I’m new to the genre. That was 3 out of 3!

But I have to know - is this a reoccurring theme? Should I expect more virgin heroines? If there’s a virgin in Darkest Pleasure, I’ll have to shut this group down out of principle.

Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against virginity and I love LOTU; it just seemed odd to be in both of the LOTU books.


message 2: by Sayuri_x (last edited Jun 10, 2008 03:28PM) (new)

Sayuri_x Heh!

I noticed too, but I don't think Danika (Reyes heroine) is a virgin.

It's not particulary common. If you want a fantastic paranormal romance with no virgins in sight try Meljean Brook.

I don't mind if they are virgins as long as they act like it. I hate it when they have multiple orgasms on thier first try. It is so not what happens. *lol* My fav treatment of a virgin heroine was in BDB's Lover Revealed cause it was real and honest and a little bit uncomfortable to read.






message 3: by Emily (new)

Emily | 2 comments Mod
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who has noticed. I'm glad to hear it isn't particulary common, because it's very unrealistic. Not that hot demons, goddesses, and mulitple orgasms are realistic, either. Ha ha!

Like I said, I've only read 3 paranormal romances and all 3 heroines were virgins. It was just a little weird.

We'll see about Danika in July. I can't wait.


Jael ~ *~ Syhren ~* ~ (wwwgoodreadscomprofilejael) I have to say I was annoyed as well, maybe just because I'm not a virgin LOL and when reading a book with a sexy man who says stuff like. I'm glad she wasn't touch by any others take away from my fantasies. LOL but no it's not a recurring theme in most Paranormal Romance books.



message 5: by Frankie (last edited Mar 25, 2011 08:08AM) (new)

Frankie | 2 comments I found the vigin thing very annoying at first as, they've waited all this time and then within a few days of knowing the lords they're ready to have sex.

I know there meant to be in love an all but...


message 6: by Soraia (new)

Soraia (sharonbhz) | 2 comments Mod
Frankie wrote: "I found the vigin thing very annoying at first as, they've waited all this time and then within a few days of knowing the lords they're ready to have sex.

I know there meant to be an all but..."


Funny that mostly I didn't even notice they were virgins in these books. Sometimes it bothers me when it's made an issue, like you said Frankie, they've waited long by choice then 5 minutes are ready for it... When it's just a mention or explained for some reason (lack of chance, didn't feel like it until then..etc) I seem to not even notice :)


message 7: by Allison (new)

Allison (bakedgoodies) | 1 comments Yeah the virgin thing can be annoying if it doesn't fit the characters. For me to believe it in a story there has to be circumstances that make it so the woman stays a virgin, especially in this day and age...

Like Anya couldn't have sex cause of the curse. Maddox's lady (I can't remember her name!) couldn't because of the convo-thing. In A Hunger Like No Other, Emma was a virgin because the valkyries wouldn't let her out of the house...

And yeah, I loved the scene in Lover Revealed, because that was sooooo realistic lol. I hate when they're virgins and it's like, "Oh! That kind of hurt, but it feels wonderful!" And then they O.

Cause no...no, that doesn't happen.

Oh, but yeah, virgins are kind of common in most romance novels. Out of all the current LOTU novels, I think 3 were virgins (Maddox's lady, Aaron's lady, Anya). Sound right?

In Kresley Cole's IAD series, there have been 4? Maybe 5. So like every other novel...


message 8: by Soraia (new)

Soraia (sharonbhz) | 2 comments Mod
@Allison, totally agree. Their first time is always described as incredible mind-blowing sex, it's surreal.


message 9: by McKenzie (new)

McKenzie | 4 comments I actually really enjoy books that have virgin characters. But I prefer realism too.

I can relate more to virgins, even though I myself am not one. It's really a long, annoying story. :-/


message 10: by ☽ Rhiannon ✭ (new)

☽ Rhiannon ✭ Mistwalker ☾ (pnr_list) | 19 comments Yeah, I am so, so, so not a virgin (and have no moral conflict with that at all) but find it endearing when one or both characters are virgins and enjoy that plot line when it makes sense. Even though I find it rather unrealistic; but then, I like romance *because* it is so escapist.


message 11: by Nawnee (new)

Nawnee (nawnees) | 1 comments honestly with all the paranormal sex filled books out there a little virginity was refreshing totally not the norm for these kinds of books but I thought she was trying for the special bond thing with these relationships maybe. I've read some books that the main character could use some chastity lol they usually end up with no plot and nothing but sex which is annoying


message 12: by Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥ , Strider's sweetheart (new)

Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥  (mylheage) | 1126 comments Mod
I don't mind virgin heroines if there aren't too many. But it is annoying when they waited that long and then jump into bed with the hero after a few days. It's also ridiculous when it's totally amazing, they have multiple orgasms and it doesn't hurt etc. even though - like usual - the hero has a huge dick.


Mello ❣ Illium ✮Harry✮ ☀Myrnin☀ Torin Ichimaru | 76 comments Lol Sarah!

You have a point there. That isn't the slightest bit realistic. I wonder if the authors write such wonderful first times for their heroines in order to keep the scene sexy. They likely don't want to insert too much realism in there in order to keep the scene flowing. It's not like it's impossible to write a good first time scene, but I just think they want the scenes to be as hot as possible, even if it doesn't make sense that losing their virginity is so awesomesauce.


message 14: by Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥ , Strider's sweetheart (new)

Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥  (mylheage) | 1126 comments Mod
You are surely right, Mello. But I just can't help shaking my head sometimes when I read those scenes.

Do you like virgin heroines/heros, hate it or don't care?


Mello ❣ Illium ✮Harry✮ ☀Myrnin☀ Torin Ichimaru | 76 comments I've never really thought about it before, so I guess it doesn't bother me.

I do get being irritated by heroines that have been virgins for centuries and then they are all hot and ready when they meet the hero. I can never tell if we're supposed she's never reacted to someone like that before or if she has and it just isn't touched on in the book because it's not really important backstory.


message 16: by Ren Puspita (new)

Ren Puspita (renpuspita) I like Virgin heroes more than virgin heroines!
Right now, the virgin heroines trope make me rolling my eyes. Okay, the author want to make them pure, and its seems romantic if the hero is the first man who deflower her. But c'mon! Be realistic, even just a little bit. Like what Sarah said, what with all that multiple orgasm and not hurt after doing it. Even not walking funny after she has her first rigorous sex.


message 17: by Anna (Bananas) (new)

Anna (Bananas) The virgin thing makes me roll my eyes too. Ugh.
Ironically, I agree that virgin men are very hot though, like in Wicked Nights.


message 18: by Anna (Bananas) (new)

Anna (Bananas) Anya was one virgin MC that didn't bother me. She was ballsy and hilarious and even though she hadn't done THE deed, you knew she'd been around.

I guess I mainly don't like it when the lead female has to be schooled in the sexual arts by her man. I want her to own her sexuality before this awesome guy comes along.


message 19: by Darla (new)

Darla (bookdragon33) | 212 comments ROTFL!!!!!! This whole conversation is HILARIOUS!!! I can't stand when ALL the female characters are virgins, it ticks me off, like come on already, at least half have made some bad decisions where an ex boyfriend/love interest and the backseat of his car were involved!!!! I would prefer if the situations were a little more real, I'd rather the sexy hero of the book, make me feel like a virgin again or something like that(hello Madonna), but not be one!!! Oh and I totally agree, a hero that is a virgin is HOT as hell! Hello Zach, and man if I could get my hands on Torin it would be on and POPPING!!!! Hehehhehe!


message 20: by Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥ , Strider's sweetheart (new)

Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥  (mylheage) | 1126 comments Mod
LMFAO

I love your comments, Darla! :-)


message 21: by Anna (Bananas) (new)

Anna (Bananas) Zach...mmmm
Lysander was a virgin too right? All I can think of now is his oil wrestling match with Paris. Good reading!!


message 22: by Darla (new)

Darla (bookdragon33) | 212 comments Was he a virgin??? I don't recall them specifically saying it, but then again, did I really pay attention...he wasn't my fav and neither was his harpy!!!


message 23: by Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥ , Strider's sweetheart (new)

Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥  (mylheage) | 1126 comments Mod
I don't remember that about Lysander either but it's been a while since I read his story.


message 24: by Lulu (new)

Lulu (lulululu) | 247 comments Yes, Lysander was as well.


message 25: by Frankie (new)

Frankie | 2 comments Having male vigins dosn't seem to make much a difference, there slower to start having crazy sex, but everything before that and the sex later they seemed to be able to do perfectly.

Male vigins are just a bit silly, pretty much from the beginning there like I must have sex, so why did they wait so long. I know with angels they don't really feel attraction unless its for there HEA but still.


message 26: by ☽ Rhiannon ✭ (new)

☽ Rhiannon ✭ Mistwalker ☾ (pnr_list) | 19 comments So, a year and a half ago, I said that I liked the virginity storylines, and I still do if they're done right BUT I have to wonder what kind of message it is putting out in the world when all/most heroines are virgins (I don't think PNR has mostly virgins, but a lot of romance is full of them). It almost implies that there is something wrong with not being a virgin *if you're a girl* or at least, it is "better" to be a virgin than to not. Which I don't agree with. There is nothing wrong with women being sexually active and sometimes I shake my head at the weird mixed messages where women are supposed to be pure until Mr. Right comes along while at the same time, women are hyper-sexualized and objectified in our culture. Just a little eye-rolling at standards there.

Also scoffing at the whole "first time doing anything sexual ever and penetration leads to multiple orgasms" thing. Cuz that basically has never happened in the history of ever.


message 27: by Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥ , Strider's sweetheart (last edited Oct 15, 2012 12:11AM) (new)

Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥  (mylheage) | 1126 comments Mod
LMAO

The guys often had their fair share of loving (ONS) while the female is either a virgin or had only one or two BFs and the sex was always not that good.

Oh, and she never has a ONS but jumps into the sack with the hero after one day and no matter how inexperienced - like you said - she gets multiple orgasms only from penetration etc. Yeah, sure... *rolls eyes*


message 28: by Darla (new)

Darla (bookdragon33) | 212 comments Wowza PNR you said a mouth-full! I totally agree too about the way chicks are seen in one area versus another!! And yes, the whole 'girl is a virgin, but jumps immediately into bed with boy, and has the most amazing sex and orgasms possible, without the pain' is the craziest stuff I've ever heard....but then I guess authors are like this isn't reality so run with it..


message 29: by Anna (Bananas) (last edited Oct 21, 2012 11:34AM) (new)

Anna (Bananas) It does send a negative message when the guys are all experienced and the women are blushing virgins. It's also not as relatable IMO. I would bet most women who read romance are not virgins anymore and barely remember what that was like. After that first time, I was all in!


message 30: by Darla (new)

Darla (bookdragon33) | 212 comments Yeah this day and age if you see a virgin you'd better take a picture of her! Not the most common these days....it would be nice to read about a woman in a book that is at least relatively experienced like "normal" women are. LOL!!! I mean geeze it doesn't have to be only black and white between virgin and street walker, there can be that gray area of experience in the sack too!!


message 31: by Anna (Bananas) (last edited Oct 22, 2012 04:28PM) (new)

Anna (Bananas) Darla wrote: "Yeah this day and age if you see a virgin you'd better take a picture of her!"

LOL
Also, does anyone else laugh when they see "Virgin Heroinses?!?!" pop up on their notifications? Maybe it's the excessive punctuation that makes me smile.

Hell yes on the gray areas.


message 32: by Darla (new)

Darla (bookdragon33) | 212 comments LOL! It's a hot mess I tell ya!!! Show me the woman that can put it on her man and spin his head and turn him out!! I think in that situation, that woman would be an immortal and have been in the long practice of seducing men! Unfortunately.


message 33: by Anna (Bananas) (new)

Anna (Bananas) Head-spinning? That sounds like some dangerous sex! That man better be immortal too.


message 34: by Lulu (new)

Lulu (lulululu) | 247 comments I like virgin heroines, but I also don't mind ones that aren't. An otherwise just OK book can become more with a virgin h or H, as I find it more interesting to read about someone's 1st time than their 500th, especially if there are good reasons for the person to have remained inexperienced.


message 35: by Anna (Bananas) (new)

Anna (Bananas) I do agree Lulu, when it's done right. There just seem to be a LOT of virgins in paranormal romance and the trope gets old quick.

What are some virgin heroines that you liked? I thought Anya in Darkest Kiss was great, although not your typical virgin.


message 36: by Lulu (new)

Lulu (lulululu) | 247 comments It's funny but I was chatting with another friend just recently and we were saying how few and far between virgins in contemporary PNR have become. (Historical PNR and Steampunk are different and there are lots of virgin heroines in those genres because of the time period.)

However, a few years ago, I would have agreed with you. There were way more virgin heroines. It's becoming more rare. Of all the series I follow, I think only Christine Feehan consistently writes virgin heroines. Showalter, Singh, Cole, Frost, Ione, Adrian, Ivy, Harrison, Ashley, Kenyon . . . all have series where a few virgins are mixed in with the experienced heroines.

Anya is also my favorite of Showalter's virgin heroines. Though, like you said, she had been around for so long, and with her powers, she'd probably seen and watched everything lol! I also like Ashlyn, just because she was really sweet and her gift also made it impossible for her to become close to anyone so it also made sense. I found their books way more sexy and entertaining than the vastly more experienced Kaia and Haidee for example.


message 37: by Lulu (new)

Lulu (lulululu) | 247 comments I've also found that experienced h's and H's are also treated to a formula of their own. When they finally do the deed, it's always The Absolute Best Sex Ever, with all memories of previous lovers/spouses/mates vanishing instantly and becoming utterly insignificant.


message 38: by Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥ , Strider's sweetheart (new)

Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥  (mylheage) | 1126 comments Mod
Lulu wrote: "I've also found that experienced h's and H's are also treated to a formula of their own. When they finally do the deed, it's always The Absolute Best Sex Ever, with all memories of previous lovers/spouses/mates vanishing instantly and becoming utterly insignificant."

This makes me roll my eyes every time. Especially when it happens with a virgin. Nothing against virgins but really?!?! (S)he gives you the best sex???

It's also funny when the sex scene is really boring and nothing special. This always makes me wonder how bad the sex has been if that is the best.


message 39: by Lulu (new)

Lulu (lulululu) | 247 comments And, a boring sex scene is a boring sex scene, no matter how experienced or inexperienced the couple.

I get though why the sex really does need to be the Best Ever. This is romance after all and it wouldn't do to have them say: Hmm, I guess that was OK. Kind of would spoil the momentum of the relationship lol.


message 40: by Anna (Bananas) (last edited Oct 23, 2012 10:24AM) (new)

Anna (Bananas) Lulu wrote: "And, a boring sex scene is a boring sex scene, no matter how experienced or inexperienced the couple. ..."

True!


message 41: by Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥ , Strider's sweetheart (last edited Oct 23, 2012 12:04PM) (new)

Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥  (mylheage) | 1126 comments Mod
Lulu wrote: "This is romance after all and it wouldn't do to have them say: Hmm, I guess that was OK. Kind of would spoil the momentum of the relationship lol."

But it would be way more realistic and realism is important to me even when I read paranormal. Some things are just too WTF in my opinion.

The hero could just say nothing about the sex.


message 42: by Lulu (new)

Lulu (lulululu) | 247 comments Sarah ♥ Vutch forever ♥ wrote: "But it would be way more realistic and realism is important to me even when I read paranormal. Some things are just too WTF in my opinion."

But that's the nature of the romance genre. Realism isn't high on the list of priorities for most romance readers lol and the HEA at the end is a requirement.

Urban Fantasy may be a better fit since the romance (if there is even one) takes a back seat. Patricia Briggs' Mercy Thompson and Alpha/Omega series or Ilona Andrews Kate Daniels are series where the relationships take several books to evolve and the world building and rules are detailed and consistent.


message 43: by Anna (Bananas) (new)

Anna (Bananas) The Mercy Thompson series is great. I'd actually like more romance for her though.


message 44: by Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥ , Strider's sweetheart (last edited Oct 24, 2012 07:33AM) (new)

Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥  (mylheage) | 1126 comments Mod
That's why the romance in the PNR books is the part I'm not really interested in (apart from Vutch). Too cliché and too predictable.

Well, I read some UF series and really enjoy them. But the romance is similar. You only have to endure the "I want him" - "I can't have him" - "He is hot" - "But I can't be with him" over several books. LOL Also, often you know after the first book who the HEA will be, even though many authors try to create a love triangle.

But well, as long as I can enjoy the world and the characters, I'll continue reading.


message 45: by Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥ , Strider's sweetheart (last edited Oct 24, 2012 11:49PM) (new)

Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥  (mylheage) | 1126 comments Mod
Btw, this is what Karen Marie Moning, author of the Highlander and Fever series, said when she was asked why all her heroines are virgins.

First, Claudia made some excellent points and when I first began writing romance, the readership very much preferred inexperienced heroines.

Second, sex matters. BlueCoyote, I grew up in a podunk town, too, with less than desirable choices, crammed full of small-town gossips. There was no way I was getting naked physically or emtionally there. Also, I had a mother who said "what did he do to deserve intimacy from you? is he that special?" and I love her for the lesson, the confidence that when I did choose to have sex, it would be special.

In a world where "sex is just sex", where every time I flip TV channels and see more than I really wanted to see while eating dinner or hanging out with my young nieces, I recall Neitzsche's call for a drastic re-evaluation of values, and figure I can do my part by not devaluing the relationships I choose to write about with multiple, casual partners. I think the human race is in trouble. I think male and female roles have become so hard to define and carve out in modern society that men and women are having an increasingly hard time making a real, lasting connection with each other. The biological imperatives that shaped our genders are no longer imperative. So who are we, and what matters? There are so many people out there, so many choices at the sex buffet, and I see so many people choosing to gorge unthinkingly while popping antidepressants and wondering why they can't find somebody to love. My advice? Try not sleeping with them on the first date. Grr...

There I am, before coffee again and uncensored....LOL.

Do they have to be virgins? No. But sex will always matter to my heroines. I'm working on the heros. Ironically, the readership seems to prefer their men with a great deal of experience. Is this a double standard we enforce on them? That a man who's a virgin isn't...quite...a desirable man?

Discuss?



message 46: by Ren Puspita (new)

Ren Puspita (renpuspita) Is this a double standard we enforce on them? That a man who's a virgin isn't...quite...a desirable man?

Hmm, I don't think virgin man isn't quite desirable. To be honest, I love reading about virgin hero rather than heroine. The trope with virgin heroine is almost become cliche now. While for virgin hero, I find them can be romantic and do we all want to be the first and the last for our hero?


message 47: by Lulu (new)

Lulu (lulululu) | 247 comments Sarah, thanks for posting that statement from KMM about why her heroines are virgins. (I don't know if that carried over into the Fever series though.) I remember reading her Highlander series years ago and wondering why that was, since that series came out at a time when the genre was starting to turn to fewer and fewer virgin heroines. Her perspective is interesting and she makes some valid points.


message 48: by Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥ , Strider's sweetheart (new)

Sarah ♥ dog crazy ♥  (mylheage) | 1126 comments Mod
I think this was only in response to the Highlander series, Lulu. I haven't read that one but heard that most (or even all?) heroines in it are virgins.

If I remember correctly Mac wasn't a virgin but Dani will be which is no surprise given her age.


message 49: by Darla (new)

Darla (bookdragon33) | 212 comments Love that Jericho Barrons!!!!


message 50: by Lulu (new)

Lulu (lulululu) | 247 comments Sarah ♥ Vutch forever ♥ wrote: "I think this was only in response to the Highlander series, Lulu. I haven't read that one but heard that most (or even all?) heroines in it are virgins.

If I remember correctly Mac wasn't a virgin..."


Yes, all the h's in the Highlander series are virgins which now makes sense to me. It was the first series KMM wrote and you can really see her growth as a writer, as the first in the series is kind of clunky but she gets better really fast and they are fun, light reads excepting Daegus MacKeltar's book which is darker. Time travel is a big feature of the series so that can be a negative for some people.


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