Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows (Harry Potter, #7) Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows discussion

Ariana Dumbledore

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message 1: by chynna (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:10PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

chynna My theory on Ariana:

We know Ariana isnt a squib. We know Ariana was a little kid and performed magic in front of muggles. We know the muggles "went to far". But what does that mean? What do you think happened to her? What action could have resulted where a witch stops practicing magic? I think she was raped by the muggles. We all see it as a book thats so innocent, but if Mrs. Weasley could say "bitch", then Ariana could be raped. Granted, i read that part after a day long Law and Order: Special Victim's Unit marathon. I think that something so intense, even beyond getting beat up, had to have scarred Ariana to stop practicing magic and to make her father want to kill those muggles. Of the 6 people i've introduced this theory to, 1 agreed with me off the bat, 2 had to rethink that part of the book and agreed, and 3 cried, disagreed and said they never really thought about what they did to her and that i ruined their childhood. But you know what, reading book 7 is ending your childhood, so there. What do you think?

message 2: by Sarah (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:10PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Sarah I agree that I think Ariana was raped. It's the only thing I can think of that would make a young girl go crazy and her father try to kill muggles. It is quite interesting that JKR would pull the punch on this when so many other "dark" things in the book happened (death, torchure, snakes coming out of dead bodies).

message 3: by Natalie (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:11PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Natalie rape was the first thing i thought of when i read that part. j.k. isnt afraid to put every other moral issue in the books, why not this?

message 4: by Sue (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:11PM) (new)

Sue i like the ambiguousness of it, but did think of rape. I mean it could of been anything that 'broke' her, caused her to withdraw from reality.

message 5: by Alex (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:11PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Alex Panzin I didn't think of rape at that moment. Probably she just was hit by one of them and being inexperienced witch hurt herself magic. Or in more conventional terms gone nuts from excessive moral abuse...

message 6: by Cris (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:12PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Cris i agree that was the first thing that occurred to me too. also the muggle attack must have been pretty sever to get so much time in prison.

message 7: by Tracey (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:13PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Tracey i hate to say it, but i think she was sexually assaulted, too. in fiction or in real life, there's still a strong charge around the issue of sexual assault. it's heinous enough when it happens to an adult, but when it happens to a *child*, there's a whole other depth to the emotions involved, as evidenced by the responses of Ariana (shutting down/lashing out) and her father (enraged enough to kill). harming a child would be considered an unforgivable, unspeakable act (and maybe that's why the exact nature of the attack wasn't voiced?).

message 8: by Mike (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:13PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Mike D. I never really thought of it that way and don't really want to. I was trying to find a reason to disagree, but I couldn't really so I guess it is a plausible theory.

message 9: by Jane (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:15PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Jane Sexual assault crossed my mind, just like it did when the story of Voldemort taking the two young kids from the orphanage into the cave was told. But I really don't think that is what JK Rowling intended. I have three kids and from things I have seen them go through, and their friends, I think that Ariana was probably being teased, bullied, ridiculed and forced to produce magic, something she was told NOT to do in front of muggles, and something she had no control over. She was probably terrified, and excited by the attention of the boys and trust me, kids are so cruel that they can push someone over the edge without laying a finger on them. See all the school shooters for an example.

message 10: by Melissa 8-22 (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:25PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Melissa 8-22 This has nothing to do with rape she was a squib

message 11: by Tracey (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:27PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Tracey actually, Melissad, Aberforth disclosed later in the book, just before the Battle of Hogwarts, that Ariana *was* able to perform magic; her magical abilities had just begun to manifest themselves when she was attacked by the 3 Muggles, and after the attack (the exact nature of the attack is unknown), her magic turned inward and she wasn't able to control it.

message 12: by Freddy-May (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:36PM) (new)

Freddy-May Rape was the first thing I thought of, but everyone else I talked to said no, they had just beaten her up and such. I still think she was raped, though...

message 13: by Jack (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:37PM) (new) - added it

Jack Gaebler i relatively agree ill have to go back and read it but didnt, in the part where dumbledor and harry were talking (when harry "died"), dumbledor EXPLAIN that part. i doubt that JK would make peopl ein fer that she got raped people are going too far

message 14: by Sue (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:37PM) (new)

Sue Perhaps this was a brilliant technique of getting everyone to use their imagination. We hear that, they went too far, made her crazy, and fill in the blanks as to what would cause this reaction.

message 15: by Nishank (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:41PM) (new) - rated it 4 stars

Nishank Modi While it's true that as an author JK wants her readers to use their imagination at every possible place, she's also consciously tried to present moral situations to us.

Ariana's incident is her attempt at addressing crimes of sexual nature against kids. Kudos to her for that.

message 16: by Grace (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:44PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Grace i really don't know if she was raped. after all she did have problems but i think that it was sad that she had to die. and who knew that albus had family?

message 17: by Maxwin (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:52PM) (new)

Maxwin ariana was not asquib

Jelisa Ariana wasn't a squib, a squib can't do magic, Ariana just had problems to control it after the muggles came. Besides, I dont think she was raped.Weren't the muggles young, like about her age?

message 19: by Sue (new)

Sue I agree with most of what you said,
something so painful and/ or humiliating happened, she couldn't deal with it and withdrew into herself

message 20: by Ct (new)

Ct Mccarthy I don;t think she was raped. But when you say about Jo Rowling using the word "bitch" she also infamously uses the word "bastard" just a few chapters before hand; when Aberforth is actually speaking about the people who you believe assaulted poor Ariana. Who will act as Ariana do you know>

Kezia Daniel I think Ariana may have been raped, even though it is never clear. If it had drove such a young girl to insanity and making her father go after them, to kill, I think rape can be the category. That, or physical and/or mental abuse. Calling of names, patronizing her, hitting her. So much grief and low self-esteem,her self image was shattered and could not cope, making her go crazy. I was so sad when I read that part. Rape was what I had immediately thought of. They were boys, she was a girl. Lot of trauma lead to insanity. My mind just goes there. So rape is what I believe. Poor Ariana.:(

Misty When I first read that the first thing that came across my mind was that the three Muggle boys had raped her. A couple people said 'No that can't be it. They are just kids.' but in actual life kids that age are raping apeople. There is no limit to where p;eople will go to get what they want. They wanted her to show them the trick and they thought if they did that she might. I mean beating her yes is bad, but bad enought to mentally unhinge her? I don't know. And to make her dad kill them out of cold blood? Rape seems like the most plausible theory. I read them as 10-12 maybe a couple years younger because they were able to go out and run around without parents obviously. So by that time boys are starting to want that sort of thing so rape is a good theory. Plus, if all they did was beat her or call her names and such really I don't think that would lead to her demise. I think it had to be something much worse. Oh and she wasn't a squib because the only reason they were there was because they were watching her do magic, which means she's not a squib. Either way something bad happened and it caused her great pain and lead to her death, poor Ariana. :(

message 23: by Sue (new)

Sue I think it was so clever of him to let us imagine what was so horrible that it would affect Ariana so.

Alyssa you guys need to stop going so deep into what the author means she probly just rote it there doesnt have to be such a horrible thing happen god u guys just got to make the book seem so horrible!!!!!!!!! it just makes me SICK that u guys would even think that that would happen she was young yes and if you were that young and just got beat up you probly would be messed up too so just shut up about finding somehting wrong with j.k.'s writing and write your own story about something like taht happening if you really care all that much any way and even if my daughter got beat up i cant say i wouldnt go hurt the people and if they hurt her so much that she went crazy i cant say i wouldnt do what he did so shut up about it or ask J.K her self if you care so dang much!

Alyssa and no i dont have a child and im only adding this part cuz my sister made such a big deal about it sounding like i had a child!

Hannah Alyssa wrote: "you guys need to stop going so deep into what the author means she probly just rote it there doesnt have to be such a horrible thing happen god u guys just got to make the book seem so horrible!!!!..."

Well, JK didn't specify what happened, so that leaves it up to the readers to interpret what they think happened. For some, they might think it was rape. Others think it might have been physical/verbal abuse. That's the point of this discussion, to tell others what you think happened, and comment on other theories. Everyone has different views, and none of the ones i've seen on this thread seem too outlandish to me. It's good to hear different viewpoints. :)

I Personally think it was rape, or some other form of sexual abuse.

message 27: by [deleted user] (new)

I agree with you Hannah.
IF someone where to rape me.. I would probably end up like her.

message 28: by Sue (new)

Sue It's been several years since I've read Harry Potter, probably due for a refresher. However, regarding messages. It is very cool, I think, that the author has managed to make us fill in the blanks here. We all have our own fears and that is what happened to Hannah.

message 29: by Erin (new) - rated it 5 stars

Erin it is completely unsure of what happened to ariana, i dont think it was rape though. think about it, some boyes see a little girl perform magic, and decide to rape her? that doesn't make much sense. bullying or some other assult could possible though. it could have possibly have been teasing, but you would think that the boyes would have been scared to see a little girl perform any type of magic, making me wonder why they would do anything to her. just something to think about. ~

message 30: by John (new) - rated it 1 star

John Egbert I think that the muggle boy's touched her inappropriately, perhaps trying to see if she was like "normal girls" or something like that. I don't know, I can only guess. or maybe they just cut her up to see she would bleed like normal girls. She was different and they hurt her horribly, that's all that I know.

It must have been pretty bad for her father to try and kill them.

message 31: by John (new) - rated it 1 star

John Egbert Fadhilah wrote: "a father can be really protective"

Yeah, but he was trying to kill those muggle boys. Being protective is one thing, but you have to know something is wrong when you want to kill someone.

message 32: by John (new) - rated it 1 star

John Egbert It did scar her, but the question is what did they do to make her so scarred? I doubt she lost her mind because they talked trash to her or pushed her in the mud. I don't like to think too badly about these sort of things, but nobody looses their mind over something that isn't too important.

Summer Natalie wrote: "rape was the first thing i thought of when i read that part. j.k. isnt afraid to put every other moral issue in the books, why not this?"

I agree: I don't know how anyone could say the Harry Potter series is "innocent" as it is a book predominantly themed with death, evil, and torture....

Summer Palice wrote: "It has dark themes, but it's just like saying that the world isn't perfect.
I think she was molested, that's what came to my mind too, but there are other possibilities. I kind of liked that J.K. R..."

I agree! Leaving blanks makes the reader think; everything isn't just spoon-fed to you.

Caitlin Pierson Alyssa wrote: "you guys need to stop going so deep into what the author means she probly just rote it there doesnt have to be such a horrible thing happen god u guys just got to make the book seem so horrible!!!!..."

Many books are written with deep meanings that readers have to dig up to find. In the case of JKR, I believe that she wrote darker things that could be interpreted by her older readers, but may not be seen by the younger readers. Harry Potter is a series that covers many issues in everyday life, and the idea of rape is no exception. Some issues may have been hidden due to the younger audience.

Maggi ya i like an author who is brave abt tht stuff but isnt too upfront abt it.

message 37: by Lindis (last edited Apr 09, 2011 09:54PM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lindis Russell I know that J.K. Rowling put some very dark stuff in these books. But I never thought of, or even heard of this theory of rape until I read this feed.

Okay, here I go, am I right in thinking that Ariana was only three when the attack happened? If so, this is what I choose to believe.......

Since she was so young, her powers were just beginning to develop. Therefore, they weren't very strong. Just like her, her powers were immature.
Knowing what I do know about pre-school age children, something as simple as getting severly beatten and taunted by peers that you trust, can be extremely traumatizing to someone so young.
And I only say "simple" because to us, adults, it's simple compared to rape.

I choose to believe that the act of being taunted and beaten could have made her very immature powers turn in on her. That plus the stress that the situation caused in the home.
Also, can you blame the little girl for never wanting to use her powers again, when that's what earned her the violence? It would be hard, even for adults to do something that sould get them beaten up.

Think about this, at this time, Albus as great as he was as an adult, was probably showing tremendous potential, and therefore, Aberforth had promise.
The impression that I got about Albus's father is that he was a very proud man. No only was he no doubt furious that his daughter was victimized, I'm sure that he was probably close to equally angry that his third child and only daughter would not be as great as his son's were going to be.
And yes, I do remember that Aberforth didn't really bring glory to the Dumbledore name. But that wasn't known at the time.

I know it's too late to make a long story short but, in summary. I choose to believe that due to the trama of the incedent, her powers being so immature, the stress at home, and a father that probably didn't handle the situation in the best way, that is why her powers never returned.
But I don't want to make it seem that I am belittling her father's actions. I have children of my own and I can understan a father wanting justice for their children. But we all know that more violence is not a good way to make things better.

I choose not to believe that rape was NOT involved. These were my reasons why.

Summer Alyssa wrote: "you guys need to stop going so deep into what the author means she probly just rote it there doesnt have to be such a horrible thing happen god u guys just got to make the book seem so horrible!!!!..."

I don't think it's so much about our thinking the books are "horrible" than speculating on our points of view on what we think may have happened to her. I think, like Caitlin said, that a lot of the messages may be harder to uncover because it is targeted to a younger audience. There are a lot of very dark, mature messages and scenarios that occur within the text, and I wouldn't rule out rape as something that may have happened to Ariana.
As a side note, I think it's very cool that everyone has their own opinions and is expressing them here!

Lindis Russell Palice wrote: "@Lindis -- I think she was six or seven when that happened.
Poor thing."

Okay, so her powes may have been stronger. But they were still not mature, so I'm sticking to my theory. : ) Thanks! Now I'm gonna have to read them again!!!!

Lindis Russell Daisy wrote: "Alyssa wrote: "you guys need to stop going so deep into what the author means she probly just rote it there doesnt have to be such a horrible thing happen god u guys just got to make the book seem ..."

I agree on your last statement too. I think that's one of the wonderful things about these books!

Sherley i agree, she was raped.

message 42: by Judy (new) - rated it 5 stars

Judy Basmaji When I first read that part, rape didn't even cross my mind, but I just thought we'll find out later what happened. But I was shocked when it was nvr mentioned agn, and I thought I must've missed something because what I love most about JK Rowling is that she always pays attention to and clears up all the details making the story seem...complete. Then when I asked a friend she said Ariana was raped like it was the most obvious thing in the world. That's when I realized how right she is, it WAS the most obvious thing in the world. It's the only thing that could've affected Ariana in such a horrible way. But seeing as Harry Potter is read by people ranged from 10 to 50 year olds, JK Rowling purposely left that part blank so children and innocents can assume she was beat up and others can assume she was raped. It all proves just how much of a genius JK Rowling really is.

Weirdology I think it's possible that she could have been raped, but I also think she could have been tortured too, without being raped. Being tortured for a prolonged period is much worse than just getting beat up and it can cause people to have a mental breakdown.

message 44: by Judy (new) - rated it 5 stars

Judy Basmaji @ Holly: I think you're right. That's a new suggestion. All I've heard is raped or beat up, but tortured is also a very likely possibility. :)

message 45: by [deleted user] (new)

Putting two and two together I think it is definitely not out there to say that she could have been raped. An event such as that is likely to completely change a person. But even if the incident wasn't quite as severe as that, it still could have made a huge impact on a young girl like Ariana. Those muggle boys saw Ariana performing some sort of magic and decided it wasn't right. Which probably led Ariana to believe that performing magic was some kind of punishable offense. If you touch a hot stove, you get burned, and you don't touch it again. That's how young kids' minds work. Ariana was probably just too scared to perform any type of magic again.

Bjoern I don't really think the abuse was sexual in it's nature, but does it really matter? She was so shocked that she lost the control of her magic which would in muggleterms mean a helluvalot damage to her psyche and that at the end of the nineteenth century where psychological help wasn't available like it is today. (of course in the magical world it might not even be around nowadays, we can't be really sure).

And finally... even when "nothing" sexual has happened the statement that she was threatened or thrashed by several muggle boys is in itself ugly and mean enough. IIRC we're never told the age of the boys, but een when they were the samne age two or three or even more boys beating a girl savagely is a disturbing conception. And the fact that Daddy Dumbledore felt compelled to go after those boys does IMO hint that they were rather quite a bit oldeer, possibly teenagers.. which would be disgusting, regardless of time or circumstances.

message 47: by Anvita (new)

Anvita She was probably molested, but Rowling didn't want to say it explicitly because it is a children's book. If it wasn't rape, I think she would have let Aberforth go into a little more detail. She never said anything about it in her interviews, though. Someone should ask her the next time they run into her.

Jordan Possibly... I honestly have no idea.

Bjoern A children's book? Deathly Hallows? Are you kidding me? It's dark and moody enough to scare a lot of teenagers, who would give this to a KID?
Not to start with the whole "obsession with the death" motive of it...

In my eyes the Harry Potter series is a growing up experience, you might start a bit earlier than Harry and his classmates, say with about nine or so, but then each book will have to wait almost a year to stay age-compliant. DH feels for me like a thing nobody under 13 or 14 should be allowed to touch.

Jordan it is a children's book. my dad read it to me and my brother. well, it's more of a family book

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