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The Government > Should all religious instructions be removed from daycare?

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message 1: by Lauren (new)

Lauren (djinni) | 7365 comments Mod
Religious daycare is stupid. They push their agenda way more then any atheist group, and yet even suggesting that religion shouldn't be taught in science class is shot down.


message 2: by Dan (new)

Dan It should absolutely be removed. There's no justification for it. The argument used in science classes - that teachers should "present both sides of the argument and let the students decide" - cannot possibly apply to babies. I'd love to hear how fundamentalists defend this one.


message 3: by [deleted user] (new)

COol- i wanna watch this Jesus Camp thing.

BUt YES i totally agree.
I, myself, don't believe in Jesus.
i believe in Karma and that everything is in circles etc.
And this Jesus bullcrap needs to be removed. I watch my little sister Kayleen go to school and come back going all 'Jesus loves me!' etc.
So sad and scary.
We need to remove and wait till we can make our own decsions. If Christinanity had it's way- it would rule the world.


message 4: by [deleted user] (new)

exactly


message 5: by [deleted user] (new)

Xox wrote: "All religions are nut, and it is a form of brainwashing. Of course it should be removed, not only in daycare, but in all education system."

I couldn't agree more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i reckong that if the pope had his way- he woud rule the world in the name of god, and anyone who didn't believe (aka. me) would be named an antichrist...
oh wait, that's already happened.
Opps, my mistake.


message 6: by [deleted user] (new)

i KNOW!!!!
you know at the moment the pope is being totally powned by critics because one of his archbishops was a bastard and torture people and stuff and the pope KNEW and did nothing!!!!!!
not only that, but he used to be a NAZI!!!
he killed people and stuff and omg.
you know, the other dude who was elected was a black dude right- sweet, kind and awesome... but, becasue of his colour, they choose the freaken x-nazi instead!!!!!!!

god, religion is CRAP!!!!


message 7: by [deleted user] (new)

Abuse covered up for years: archbishop
12:20 AEST Mon Mar 22 2010

A report revealed Archbishop Robert Zollitsch admitted that sexual abuse was covered up for decades.


A news magazine says the head of the German Bishops Conference admits the Roman Catholic church consciously covered up cases of sexual abuse by priests.
Weekly magazine Focus reported on Sunday that Archbishop Robert Zollitsch of Freiburg, who also heads the Bishops Conference, said "sexual abuse was covered up for decades by society".
He said while most cases happened outside the church, "assaults that took place in such numbers within our institutions shame and frighten me".
"Every single case darkens the face of the entire church," he said.
On Saturday, Zollitsch apologised personally for a sexual abuse cover-up that happened 20 years ago in a Black Forest community while he was in charge of human resources at the Freiburg diocese.


message 8: by [deleted user] (new)

he's a report from nineMSN


message 9: by [deleted user] (new)

i know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it's freaky as, and everyone knows it.
i don't see how the pope holds such a powerful position for brainwashing people and preaching bullshit.
It's just not right.
I reakon religion should be classified under cluts, because thats what it is.
It's wrong, they all about- money money money... oh, and will save you of your sins to for an extra $5 000 thanks.
WHAT!

oh, and did you here about that "religion/clut" that keep to themsevles here in australia?
it was on the news and all.
And it was like thousands of dollars of OUR money (tax etc.) was going on THERe kids when we and other students that actully work for that money, only get a few hundred.
And it's not like they give anything back- there antisocial!!!!

it's just no right.
i admit, we, as humans, need something to believe in- but why not mother earth, science or something (although thats just going to be bull to in a few billion years :P thats life) and all.

LIke, i believe in Karma and spirits etc.
Why? Because it's cool and makes sense.


My two theroies on religion:
1. a guy who was like the BC tolkein dude, wrote a few scriptures that now make the bible, in a way to entertain people for there sucky life.
2. a guy called Jesus made a bet with his childhood friends, that he could fool the world and make them believe shit.

i have to say, my theroies make more sense then this God thing.
You never know- God really could stand for three names that Mary had an affair with that could be Jesus's father... but, knowing how kind Jospeh was, couldn't bare tell him of how she had betrayed him and was spoiled goods- so made up all the hocus pocus and made Jesus live up to it.
No wonder why she was so upset when he was cruicified.


but hey, there random stories that me and my friends came up. Who know what the truth is. Who knows if we will ever find out...


message 10: by [deleted user] (new)

sorry that was sooooooooo long.


message 11: by [deleted user] (new)

Okay-let's clear this up!

The reason there are religious daycare centres is because religious people have opted to have their own religious education for their children.

If we take away religious daycare then wouldn't that be a removal of rights?

The Bill of Rights states that (bascially) that every human being has the right and should be allowed to make their own decsions.

Also, people are not forced to go to a religious daycare centre and if you haven't noticed there are options other than sending a child to a religious daycare.

However taking this all into consideration - what if a person cannot afford to send their child to a religious daycare centre? Wouldn't this family want and expect to have religious beliefs taught to their child at these centres.

Religious instructions should NOT be removed from daycare.


message 12: by [deleted user] (new)

P.S. Dayna - teaching children religion isn't brainwashing them.
Haven't you been taught all these things yet you have chosen not to believe them?
Why would anyone else be different?


message 13: by [deleted user] (new)

think about it sophia- pretty much EVERY daycare, religious or not, teaches about god no matter what.
What about OUR rights- not these. It's us that don't have the option of giving our child a choice.
not them


message 14: by [deleted user] (new)

Sophia wrote: "P.S. Dayna - teaching children religion isn't brainwashing them.
Haven't you been taught all these things yet you have chosen not to believe them?
Why would anyone else be different?"


Ahh- but i'm a strong character with will power. Such people as my sister and all don't have that. Then, i was brough up with my father... i repeat my FATHER. Who is one of the most anti-cathlic people on this earth... ok, he has a opened mind but he isn't one for god. he's like me, what goes around, comes around.

But what about the kids who are religious families, schools EVERYTHING. Do they stand a chance???


message 15: by [deleted user] (new)

Xox wrote: "The Bill of rights also say freedom from religion. To many parents, that is freedom from bullshit. That is a right too.

With that put into consideration, religious nutjobs could teach whatever t..."


TOTALLY!!!


message 16: by [deleted user] (new)

Oh, please.
Once a person has grown up they have a mind of they're own! It's just a weak excuse that you've been brought up that way!

Also, not every teacher talks about god, Dayna!
If it is required teachers are forbiden to speak about god if parents are against it!

The Bill of Rights was a basic example of how people deserve to make their own decsisions. But if you want to talk about freedom from religion...

Take my example from before-if a parent wishes to send their child to a religios school but is unable to afford it-should they expect for their child to receive the religioius instructions from another school. Plus there actually are non-religious schools that don't teach religiou instructions. If a person didn't want their child to learn about God then wouldn't you send your child there?

It's actually selfish in a way if you want people to ban religious instructions from being taught in daycare just because you don't believe in God.


message 17: by [deleted user] (new)

By the way, I'm not in favour of religion but I do believe that there are many people out there who care about this and I feel the need to speak up on their behalf.


message 18: by [deleted user] (new)

Xox wrote: "Sophia wrote: "By the way, I'm not in favour of religion but I do believe that there are many people out there who care about this and I feel the need to speak up on their behalf."

Then why don'..."



i can't say i disagree.

Religion is another word, as i said, for cult. They talk you money, preach bulshit and oh god- it's just wrong.
i have to say, i do respect there beliefs like do good to others etc. but COME ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you can believe in those rights as it's own "religion". Why the hell does someone even what to put there faith in a big guy up in the clouds who watches as we destroy the world.
Its wrong.

I know and it's not just the catcholic reglion that were talking about, as XoX- it's muslims to.
And it's not like all the religions are helping us progres in life either- taking many women as wives, shoning women to just housecleaners, killing daughters who are deflowered before marriage (it was on the news)- you know, the adverage Muslim.
And if we allow catholicism and christanity into our schools- why not muslims and buddha and all that.

Do you really want you son killing his daughter because she had sex before marriage all because he went to a school were they preached muslim???

Yes yes, i know sophia
'But i won't send my son to a muslim school to begin with... and who won't say i will have a son??!!! WHy not a daughter???'
Yes yes sophie.


But, it IS a form of brainwashing.
I could even start my on religion if i wanted to.


message 19: by [deleted user] (last edited Mar 30, 2010 02:16AM) (new)

Oh, come freaking on!
Cult?
Honey, you clearly are mistaken!
Buy a dictionary!
And your example of the average Muslim is insulting!
Do know why that was on the news?!
Because it makes money!
People only tell what they think is interesting!
Those ideas are obviously biased and actually have no evidence of what going on with the world!
Not everything is a conspiracy theory!

By the way XoX people have their own minds their own thoughts. People believe what they want to believe and brainwashing is simply that. Nobody can make up your mind for you. You choose to go along with what they believe in. Also I don't stop people from making up their own minds.


message 20: by [deleted user] (new)

Xox wrote: "By the way XoX people have their own minds their own thoughts

Yes, but we are talking about young children at pre-school age. They are people, but would believe a lot of bullshit including relig..."


i TOTALLY agree :D
little kid's brains are like sponges that soak up everything and anything they get there hands on!!!


message 21: by [deleted user] (new)

Not entirely, at that age they'll probably be more interested in playing with lego than in religion. I know I was. Teaching them about religion won't affect them too greatly for when they grow up - which by then they'll have a pretty clear idea about they're religion.

And the definition of a cult is - a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.

This does not mean that all religions are a cult if you don't belong it.

Most religions do not consider other religions as cults - simply foreign. Christians do not think of all other religions as cults neither do Muslims or Atheists (who don't actually have a religion.)

By saying this you have contradicted yourself. If a child is brought up believeing that all religions are cults (as you say that children should not be taught religious instructions at daycare) which would lead me to assume that you would not be teaching them anything which may result in these ideas forming in their heads.

By the way - what do cults and daycare have in common?


message 22: by [deleted user] (new)

ok- i'm slightly lost... soz, i'm tired and oh sophie.
We lost the house. T_T
we have to keep looking which is good because we can get better but still... :S


message 23: by [deleted user] (new)

One thing you'll soon learn about me, XoX,
Is that my logic is never off.
If you say otherwise...well let's just say you'll spend years in therapy. ^.^

Even though I haven't seen it - Jesus Camp is most likely something that wouldn't occur daily.


message 24: by [deleted user] (new)

Xox wrote: "Sophia

Watch Jesus Camp and know that it is much scary now to be taught religion in daycare, pre-school using brainwashing technique aimed at children who are too young to resist the indoctrina..."



nevermind sophie- you get used to her after awhile.
She's just VERY stubborn and doesn't take no for an answer :P


message 25: by [deleted user] (new)

Excuse me?
What did you say?
By the way - I'm sorry you lost the house.
:'(
I cry for you girl.

Wait, me?
Stubborn?
I don't think so.


message 26: by [deleted user] (new)

... yes, you most certainly stubbon- like me XD
and yeah, i know. My father is too happy though as he says- theres always a better deal... anyway, i didn't even really like the house.


message 27: by [deleted user] (new)

No, if I'm stubborn then it's you who is like me.
Because I got here first :p
Glad you're not too sad about the house!


message 28: by [deleted user] (new)

ahaha- we'll see
and thanks- yeah. i guess i wanted a new change, an adventure and more people to meet and turn to the crazy side (:P)
but theres always next time. *smiles*


message 29: by [deleted user] (new)

Mm-hmm.
But I'm still right about the religion thing.
:P


message 30: by [deleted user] (new)

oh go... SEEE that just proves my point about the brainwashingthingmicjig. It's part of us, part of all of us and we can't do anything about us.
Even i'm brainwashed... *screams/wails*
MY life is OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


message 31: by [deleted user] (last edited Mar 30, 2010 03:34AM) (new)

You do nkow that I was just saying that to provoke you?
:p
And you're only brainwashed if you choose to be!
^.^


message 32: by [deleted user] (new)

exactly... OH MY DONKEY!!!
i actually agree with you and yes, i do release that sophie... :P


message 33: by [deleted user] (new)

hehehe- i'm listening to anastaha


message 34: by [deleted user] (new)

oh, night sophie... and i'm also kinda banned tomorrow night...
the things i do for you guys T_T


message 35: by [deleted user] (new)

Why?
The government are bound by law to respect people's rights.
If that means that there is religious instructions at daycare then they'll do it.
It's not Jesus Camp, that is a biased view point to think that that is what religious instructions at daycare are like.
And religious instrcutions aren't all that bad-love thy neighbour. Yeah real scary.
Religious instructions are based on morals that are correct.


message 36: by [deleted user] (new)

It should be up to the families if we "brainwash" our children or not. Religion in daycare is the same as religion in school. We ban it from school, so why don't we ban it from daycare as well? And if we don't, then it should say "We are a religious daycare group" just like there are religious schools. But I think there shouldn't be a ban, just a limit and rules to if you do.


message 37: by [deleted user] (new)

That makes sense. Okay, then I think it's a good idea. Haha, wow that's the easiest I've ever switched my opinion on something. :)


message 38: by Dan (last edited Mar 30, 2010 11:03PM) (new)

Dan The reason there are religious daycare centres is because religious people have opted to have their own religious education for their children.

It is not taxpayers' responsibility to help religious people perpetuate their religions by indoctrinating children. Let's say I want to raise my children to be racists. There's nothing illegal about this. If I want to tell my children that people of race X are inferior, I can go ahead. Does this mean that taxpayers should have to fund public schools that include lessons to help me teach my kids my racist views? Obviously not. So the argument for keeping religion in public daycare is not that daycare should be obligated to indoctrinate children into whatever ideology parents choose, but that religious ideology specifically is good. In other words, the state should endorse religion. This is a pretty clear violation of freedom of religion.

Removing religious instruction from public daycare and schools isn't violating rights. It isn't preventing religious people from raising religious children. No one is saying that daycare should teach kids to be atheists; just that it shouldn't be teaching them to belong to any religion.


message 39: by [deleted user] (new)

It really shouldn't be teaching any at all, they shouldn't be bringing it up at all.


message 40: by [deleted user] (new)

Nathan wrote: "The government are bound by law to respect people's rights.

I can't even believe I need to explain this. If people want religious instruction in a private school, fine. It doesn't belong in a pu..."


AHAHA- SUCKED sophie, you got POWENED
muahaha :P

though, in my friends defense- the statement.
Religious instructions are based on morals that are correct.
DOES make sense and means something.
I believe EVERYTHING about religion is based on morals- everything they preach (besides the usual shit).
What about the Ten comandments???
Oh, yeah- forgot about that didn't you.
And about your father placing us onto a hill top- i don't think she said anything about the "stories" just the morals.
God (man- see even i have picked up traits of a believe T_T), those stories were porberly made up by an drunken idiot.


message 41: by [deleted user] (new)

doomed2darkness wrote: "It should be up to the families if we "brainwash" our children or not. Religion in daycare is the same as religion in school. We ban it from school, so why don't we ban it from daycare as well? And..."

There's something for religious called "sunday school". Ever heard of it?
Because if the government is worried about this arguement- they can always say.
'Look- we are mix races here in Australia; everyone has a right to believe in what they want. BUT, being a mix race socity, that means at school we have many types of religion.
Instead of preaching one, and choosing one- we choose none so we do not "taint" one's child.
If you are worried about your child's relgious upbring- send them to (freaken) sunday school, russian school or what ever you want.'

SEEEEEEEEE!!!
yes yes, i can hear the comments- are you an idiot??
and no i'm not- just a very misleaded girl thanks to my father :P


message 42: by [deleted user] (new)

ohhhhhhhhh!!!
there's sides??
what's the sides- i'm just pointing what i think is wrong in other people's statements >_<
muahahah so evil :D


message 43: by [deleted user] (new)

Well- i'm all for banning it!!! :D
who's for keeping it???


message 44: by [deleted user] (new)

Am I being debated against? Lol.


message 45: by [deleted user] (new)

trufully: i have no idea
nor do i have any idea who i'm backing and attacking :S


message 46: by [deleted user] (new)

I is lost... damnit.


message 47: by [deleted user] (new)

i know...


message 48: by [deleted user] (new)

Ok-I think that everyone is completely ignoring the fact that some parents may want to send their child to a religious daycare. I proposed that there should be religious daycare centres created as well as creating daycare centres in which teaching religious instructions are banned. I think that this is an suitable and reasonable suggestion.

By the way, Nathon, you have no right to call other persons opinions stupid. I am simply stating the other side of the story. So just because you don't agree with somebody does not mean that you may insult them. You said you have students? Heaven help them.


message 49: by [deleted user] (new)

The point isn't whether you think that religion is good for YOUR family, the point is whether you think religion is good in general. Individualism is great but daycares and schools now adays don't support individualism like they should. They're trying to group you together. Even in religion they try to group you.


message 50: by [deleted user] (new)

Ok, Nathan, you have completely crossed the line and you should get that irrational temper in check. I don't care if the right was given to you by the Constitution. Read the rules of this debating group. It clearly states no insulting. This is just a simple debate and that's the way you should take it. These are debates not arguements. From now on, I am going to refrain from addressing any comments from you as they are both insulting and incorrect.


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