World Peace discussion

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Is this the way we want things to go?

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message 1: by Daniel (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:09PM) (new)

Daniel | 1 comments I've worked in the Moslem world. It used to be that only the radical fringe wanted the Americans to go home.

Now more and more moderate Moslems are saying Americans MUST leave.

We Americans must ask ourselves if this is the way we want it to continue.

Do we want the entire Moslem world AGAINST us?

Is this the way we want things to go?

Fitz


message 2: by [deleted user] (new)

Given the way many Muslims conduct their governments and private lives ... SURE. Let's rock.


message 3: by Héctor (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:10PM) (new)

Héctor The american way of life is better?


message 4: by Bryan (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:10PM) (new)

Bryan Héctor, would you prefer to be a woman in the United States or a Muslim country located in the Middle East?


message 5: by Héctor (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:10PM) (new)

Héctor There are people (men and women) without rights in all the world. Including United States, Bryan. This is bad.
For the discussion to read: "A Socialist Plot" by Paul Krugman in http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/082...


message 6: by [deleted user] (new)

The American way of life is better, democratic republics are the gold standard, and a country of proud immigrants is the way to go.

If you hate my country, the United States of America, I will die for your right to tell me all about your hate. But don't expect me to buy into your liberal, pacifist, knee-jerk despising of the greatest country that has ever arisen in the history of mankind.

Will it last forever? Probably not. Will something else more humane and better come along? Sometime, heck yeah.

But I love the melting pot, I love the Sikhs and the Mexicans and the Baptists who are all paying their taxes and voting and arguing. I love that they can have their synagogues and churches and atheist freethoughts centers. I love that we complain about Gitmo. I love that we were going to impeach Nixon and the government didn't collapse. I love that we started a war with Vietnam with good ideas and realized, through the courage of honest soldiers and a tired populace, that it was a terrible idea. I hope someday the same thing happens in Iraq.

But I don't for a minute think things would be better and more free for me in Vietnam or Iraq or Bahrain or even the United Kingdom.

I love my country. I love that we have less capital punishment, but our states wrestle with the issue of whether the state's right to kill evil felons is right or wrong. I love that women wear Islamic headdresses and Amish girls cover their arms and legs. I love the fact that the Southern Baptists who hate fags don't murder them in the night. I love the homosexuals who, despite not having full rights to marriage I think they're entitled to, are working in courts, not slashing the throats of Congressmen from the Deep South who disagree.

I love that Native Americans are taking the dumb white gamblers' money. I love that we agree today that it was wrong to take the Natives land and enslave Africans. But I also love that we see that lots of Native Americans think American democracy is pretty cool, and blacks look at their homelands and shake their heads.

We've got it good. We were lucky. And we keep our borders open--we should open the more--to absorb those who share our dream of working for yourself and making it and supporting a family through hard work. Do we have too many poor people? Yes. But that's because we have FREEDOM to fail and succeed. And, for goodness sake, if people are starving, that's YOUR fault, too. Own up to it and do something about it. Do more. Encourage others to do more. You have the freedom, with less taxation, to do more. So do it.

If you want 80 percent taxation and the government to tend to your needs when the government is good and ready, there are countries for that.

I love America. I love you. I love peace. And sometimes I love war. I don't want to live under Shaaria, I don't want to live under biblical commandments. I want to live with democractic representation and a government of the people, for the people, and by the people. And as alienated as we ever feel from the government, well, it ain't Saudi princes and it ain't the Iraqi dictator and it ain't the ridiculously partisan British parliament.

Hip, hip, hooray for my country!

You know why there's not world peace? Because people are finite human beings with finite resources and they come into conflict. The U.S. happens to have the biggest military, so we're bearing the brunt of complaints about world peace. But Americans didn't invent war and we're not going to make it obsolete.

I've had enough of the knee-jerk America-bashing. Complain about the United States IN CONTEXT of the crappy world we live in.

(Cue "The Motherf***ing Battle Hymn of the Republic")


message 7: by [deleted user] (new)

And, incidentally, Hector, I think healthcare for children is a good idea. I think eventually universal healthcare of some sort should be the gold standard. But governments make a mess of things. I'm hoping somebody comes up with something cheaper and more efficient than the government would devise.

Peace out, my socialist brothers. I got your back.


message 8: by Héctor (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:11PM) (new)

Héctor You live under biblical commandments, Brendan. Sure, you have read "The life and moral of Jesus of Nazareth" or "The Jefferson Bible" of Thomas Jefferson, the editor of The Declaration of North American Independence.

I admire your country but also I criticize it.


message 9: by [deleted user] (new)

Can you give examples of laws in the United States of America that are biblically based and, thus, not applicable to nations that do not have lots of Christians?


message 10: by Héctor (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:11PM) (new)

Héctor The punishment of death...


message 11: by [deleted user] (new)

I don't hear anyone in support of the death penalty whose chief argument is that capital punishment is in the Bible. A literal reading of the Bible has commandments to stone to death a son who disrespects his parents as well as a Jew who carries wood on the Sabbath (Saturday, the Day of Rest).

If you're referring to "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth," most rabbinic sources attribute that to MERCY, not CRUELTY. For instance, if one loses an eye, the rabbis said it means one must compensate the person for the eye monetarily. It was a law AGAINST abusing an offender beyond what the crime called for, for instance, no killing a man for knocking your tooth out.

Arguments for capital punishment I've heard: 1) Vengeance for family members who deserve it, 2) deterrence for other potential murderers, and 3) those who take another's life deserve to die.

And, incidentally, are there countries uninfluenced by religious philosophies or texts in their establishment of laws either in their history or current legal systems?


message 12: by Héctor (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:11PM) (new)

Héctor The Roman Catholic Church traditionally accepted capital punishment as per the theology of Thomas Aquinas. To see "Aquinas and the death penalty" in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_...


message 13: by [deleted user] (new)

What's your point? America was neither founded by the Catholic Church nor are most Americans or civil servants or governmental employees or, well, ANYTHING other than Mexican-Americans predominantly Catholic.


message 14: by Héctor (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:11PM) (new)

Héctor In 1608 the protestant British introduce the capital punishment in their American colonies. That tradition continues, lamentably...


message 15: by [deleted user] (new)

Capital punishment existed before Catholicism, Protestantism, Islam, etc., and it will exist long after. It's a natural, understandable but lamentable impulse on the part of human beings that we want the State--if not ourselves--to have the right to punish people by killing them when we can lock them away and out of society for life.

Of course, there's an argument to be made that life in prison is a far more cruel prospect for a human being than the death penalty. I don't agree with that, but, then, I've never been in maximum security prison.

Incidentally, I agree with you, Hector. I don't support capital punishment. But I don't think the chief reason behind it is God said to kill murderers. I think executing cold-blooded killers is a universal want. We have to rise above the need for violent vengeance when there's no danger--when a criminal is already incarcerated.


message 16: by Héctor (last edited Aug 25, 2016 12:12PM) (new)

Héctor It is necessary to follow the example of Europe, that prohibits the capital punishment.


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