Fans of Interracial Romance discussion
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What Turns You OFF When Reading an Interracial Romance?
Obligatory long flowing hair and hazel or light colored eyes.All this does is point out to me how we continue to be our own worst enemies in this country. We claim black is beautiful but write as if we assume that all black women, in our fantasies want to be close to white as possible lol!
TheFountainPenDiva wrote: "Slavery. There's not a lot of IR historical fiction as it is (sad) but the little of it there is seems to be centered around the antebellum South or set on a plantation. This is just not romantic..."
I gotta say, even though its not a trope I go for specifically, I get the draw. I mean, what bigger obstacle than that? What says true love more than having someone literally risk everything for the love of that person. The problem is, most of the time the trope isn't written correctly so it comes across as played way too lightly.
I loved A.D. Koboah's Dark Genesis because she managed to convey some real cruelty in her heroines circumstances and background, she had a side trope that made it possible for me as a reader to believe this guy could come in and make
Savannah~Quad-motherin'-book readin' diva wrote: "TheFountainPenDiva wrote: "Slavery. There's not a lot of IR historical fiction as it is (sad) but the little of it there is seems to be centered around the antebellum South or set on a plantation..."
I agree with Savannah Ms. FountainPenDiva. I'm perversely attracted to that type of reading to see how the author deals with the issues that come along with loving someone and knowing that you may have a death sentence hanging over your head because of it. It's my curiosity on how the situations are going to be played out and if it fits what I know about that particular time period.
It's like the movie Queen with Halle Berry, I hated what happened to her mother being relegated to basically a concubine even though Queen's father loved her mother and she lived him, but it was an honest portrayal of how things most likely were. I loved how they loved one another, but hated it at the same time because he couldn't be with Queen's mother openly.
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Savannah~Quad-motherin'-book readin' diva wrote: "Obligatory long flowing hair and hazel or light colored eyes.All this does is point out to me how we continue to be our own worst enemies in this country. We claim black is beautiful but write a..."
THIS. RIGHT. HERE.
As far as slavery as romance, I just feel that so many aspects of black history are ignored in favor of the most obvious one. Sure we read for mostly for entertainment, but one can also learn something new. Black people fought in the Revolutionary War, on both sides. Eleanor of Aquitaine had Moorish troubadours in her court. Several of Rome's most celebrated gladiators were African. Yes a white man risked censure at worst, death at the worst for loving a black woman. Black women risked far more since there was no way of knowing if the risk was worth it. How does an IR romance deal with the power inequity at that time and make it feel realistic? I just don't think they can.
TheFountainPenDiva wrote: "Savannah~Quad-motherin'-book readin' diva wrote: "Obligatory long flowing hair and hazel or light colored eyes.All this does is point out to me how we continue to be our own worst enemies in this..."
Fountain, you're right-absolutely. It CAN'T be done in a realistic way as their really isn't anything truly romantic about fearing for ones life in reality. I think that's why its not a popular trope. I just get the draw. I get why fans are at least giving it a try. The subject matter alone just shouts "This man loves this woman!" and that's what we're all reading for basically. We want to read about an unrealistic type of love for the most part.
And I'd like to see other IR novels that focused on different eras as well. Theres more to be told. There just isn't wide spread knowledge or education about it. Hopefully in years to come.
Which brings me to wondering if you all have seen the promo for the movie coming out this spring, Belle? 17th century British setting IR movie. Looks amazing.
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The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears
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Oh yes! It was about time too. I read about her years ago after seeing a painting of her. I also hope they'll do one about Alexandre Dumas with an actor of color.
Maybe I'm overlooking this subject, but it bothers me when Black women put other black women's features down in books. A main character referring to an enemy as "nappy headed" or "her dark ass" does not sit well. Perhaps this is stemming from the light skin privilege i often see in books. The MC having just enough black to be considered such, but then having fair skin and light eyes or finer hair.
I dont think long hair bothers me much. I've never been able to help that rate my hair grows makes up for the rate it sheds and rests. In fact I'd like to see more darker women with naturally long hair, natural or not. Most people assume dark skin=short hair. I have to disagree. I know my hair isn't naturally straight(not that i'd want it to be)but I dont think skin color determines hair growth.
Guinevere wrote: "I dont think long hair bothers me much. I've never been able to help that rate my hair grows makes up for the rate it sheds and rests. In fact I'd like to see more darker women with naturally long ..."I think that its just a biproduct of history. Before we knew what to do to keep hair healthy enough to attain length, the only blacks with longer hair WERE those "light, bright, damn near white" who could avoid the splitting and shedding by virtue of DNA. It takes a good long while to shake that because its basic history. Irksome, but history just the same.
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The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears
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Guinevere wrote: "Maybe I'm overlooking this subject, but it bothers me when Black women put other black women's features down in books. A main character referring to an enemy as "nappy headed" or "her dark ass" doe..."One of the things that has really disappointed me about IR is the playing into that light-skinned privilege. I had hoped that IR books would not just break down romance barriers, but that they would showcase black women in our wonderful and infinite variety of hues. It definitely gets tiresome to read about another heroine with hazel green or light eyes, fair skin and a silky mane. The irony being that most of the BW/WM IR couples I know personally, the woman is dark-skinned, like deep Grace Jones colored.
Savannah~Quad-motherin'-book readin' diva wrote: "Guinevere wrote: "I dont think long hair bothers me much. I've never been able to help that rate my hair grows makes up for the rate it sheds and rests. In fact I'd like to see more darker women wi..."I totally get Guinevere's point because I'm also a very brown girl that's always had a head full of hair. It unbelievably was one of the dumbest reasons ever to inspire childhood bullying from jealous girls. So I don't find it unrealistic to find a character with that same trait. I find it goofy that at least once a week though currently cut to mid-length it's thickness inspires people to invade my personal boundaries in much the same way people intrude on visibly pregnant strangers. Other black women think it's okay to question if it's all mine, is there "Indian" in my family, or ask to touch it aka check for tracks. All things they find extremely offensive if someone of another ethnic group did it to them. I personally find it another way to qualify "blackness" which isn't fair.
What turns me off in IR fiction is the number of books that are all about "whoops! I got pregnant and I have no other options". Must we have so many "I have a white baby-daddy" stories? I'd rather read a story where she is struggling with the decision of whether or not have the baby rather than "I will not tell the father I had a baby by him so that five years later he will come back, discover I had his baby--which will automatically make him love me"...
Those stories drive me insane.
@kim wow, I've yet to read a story like that XD I must not see it as much since most the ones I read have paranormal or sff elements. That's definitely weird. I think Dorothy koomson may have a book like that. I've read two of her novels. She tends to focus on ir romance, I just hate how every black mc she makes is insecure, while she makes no effort to assure the white people in her life are gorgeous. @paganalexendria, yea I get the questions too. The what are you mixed with? Co workers rudely feeling down to the roots of my hair. Kind of sucks. When I tell people I'm Cuban, they somehow think that's supposed to explain it. Black Cubans aren't immune to coarse hair just because their heritage is different. I definitely think we(not people in this group , more like humanity as a whole) don't get many opportunities to see a variety of Latinos. So if we see more with straight long hair naturally, we assume that's what Latino looks as a whole. I'm like nope! No Indian XD as far as I know the African blood rubs strongest ;p
P"Guinevere wrote: "I dont think long hair bothers me much. I've never been able to help that rate my hair grows makes up for the rate it sheds and r..."Terribly rude treatment you describe. Unfortunately, I've seen it. And they think you're being snooty if you object!
@Kim - Gah!! Secret babies are one of my absolute least favorite tropes out there -- no matter the sub-genre. Unless you are struck blind, deaf and mute, have your hands chopped off and can't blink out morse code, there is no reason you can't tell the guy you are pregnant.Once in awhile I do come across a book where the writer manages to milk it for high angst na dmakes it an effective plot propeller, but those are exceptions.
Probably has been mentioned, but ir told as if it's forbidden. In modern day no less. I can only speak for me, but I'm by no means colorblind. I feel as though any choosing of partners are a choice, interracial or not. But to still look at it as if it's forbidden seems way behind the times. I can't say that I don't discuss race. I discuss it nearly everyday. So it's awesome that it doesn't effect others the way it does me. But I think I discuss it more, because my bf still isn't the most educated on white privilege, internalized and structural racism, and many other of the invisible things I'm forced to face that he doesn't have to. But I still don't look at interracial dating as this taboo thing.
I want to go back and read through the comments, but personally I don't like when the book is set in recent times and the couple is hiding. You shouldn't date someone if you can't tell those important to you about them. Also, no self respecting adult should tolerate being hidden. I also don't appreciate when the woman is stereotypically ghetto or the man is stereotypically blue collar. I prefer and relate to mature middle class situations with realistic issues.
Kim wrote: "What turns me off in IR fiction is the number of books that are all about "whoops! I got pregnant and I have no other options". Must we have so many "I have a white baby-daddy" stories? I'd rathe..."
Kim, another group I'm active in has a thread to list the pros and cons of being a romance reader. This was my answer:
Pro: You have an endless supply of unbelievably hot book boyfriends.
Con: You have an endless supply of TSTL chicks you want to strangle.
That secret baby trope almost always features a dumb and selfish heroine who needs a good butt kickin'.
Paganalexandria **wicked juices bubbling over** wrote: There was a wonderful art exhibition about the African presence in Renaissance Europe. You all should check it out.I'm still haunted by that portrait of the female servant in the 16th century. I didn't go see the exhibit in person, so I didn't get to see the whole portrait (still would like to). I'd love to see more books set in this time period since that is my favorite era.
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The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears
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How about babies PERIOD!? What ever happened to SAFE SEX? I'm sorry but insta-sex-then-(surprise)pregnancy-then-love is another trope I stay far away from. Neither character knows the others history. Who knows what kind of nasty bug they may have picked up. It just makes both seem irresponsible. And safe sex can be written hot. I also think it shows maturity on the characters part. Yeah, yeah it's fantasy but contemporary books don't have to be all fluff. On the hair issue. Again VARIETY. If writers showcased all kinds of styles and textures it might help dispel some of the myths surrounding black hair. I mean, why not a heroine with Bantu knots? By the way, one of my favorite metal bands-Kamelot, featured a background singer who had them. She was white, lol. They looked cool too, but still, why aren't more IR writers showing that?
Fountain, I'm wondering if there isn't a secondary myth being perpetuated with authors. That white men simply are not attracted to truly black looking women, be it hair, skin whatever. That's part of the reason we get so many light skinned, long haired heroines. Goes all the way back to those features being preferred even among blacks. Folks still walking around thinking it takes that type of standard to attract a white man. Icant remember if it was you or another poster who pointed out that it seems to actually be the opposite most of the time. I'm not saying ALL black isn't beautiful, only that there is a history in our community of not treating our females as such. It continues. Its one reason some ladies make a conscious decision to go where the love is. If one man is making you feel more attractive than another......where ya gonna hang your bra in the end? LOL
Oh and I agree about the baby thing. I'm finally reading The President's Girlfriend and they have just had sex for the second time post reunion...and already no condoms. No talk about it either so the leader of the free world who is oh so concerned with whether she can hang with the public scrutiny is now wide open to a potential pregnancy AND sure enough of her sexual health to risk his own. Lol
TheFountainPenDiva wrote: "How about babies PERIOD!? What ever happened to SAFE SEX? I'm sorry but insta-sex-then-(surprise)pregnancy-then-love is another trope I stay far away from. Neither character knows the others histo..."PenDiva, the lack of safe sex in contemporary books sometimes has me scratching my head. Especially when the heroine acknowledges she thinks the hero is a manwhore. This doesn't bother me that much in PNR, UF, or historical for some reason. This isn't an IR bug, but romance in general.
There should be more hair variety because that's one of the realities of black women. We all kind of love to push hair limits. I wouldn't be opposed to more heroines that experiment with unconventional hair colors as well as dreads or braids. One of my favorite things about
was the many hair transformations the heroine went through.
Wanted to make a quick observation. It seems that only black/Latino men have have issues with protective styles. I've never met a white guy who was attracted to me who didn't expect some sort of cultural difference in hair.
I haven't been with a black man since the early 90's so honestly, I've no idea lol.
well my sister's bf is colombian(white) on his mother's side and haitian(black) on his father's. He looks stereotypically fair to tan. More emphasis on the fair, he just has haitian features physically, and pale skin. He doesnt like braids, curly hair, or anything non relaxed and straight. But my bf is just of euro descent. I cant say that he doesnt notice, but i doesn't strike him as "not done."
This is not me coming down on latino or black men. There are many black and latino that prefer natural hair. Im just referring to the ones i encounter daily.
This is not me coming down on latino or black men. There are many black and latino that prefer natural hair. Im just referring to the ones i encounter daily.
Completely agree on the safe sex and "secret baby/surprise pregnancy" thing. Now, there have been times when it's done right, and I'm not head-desking all over the place. And I would say that I'm even a bit more forgiving in books that don't have an Erotic focus. But only by a little bit. As bad as this sounds, I get a little tired of some of the books ending in "love, marriage, and a baby carriage" so to speak. I'd a little a variety. This doesn't necessarily mean that the characters don't end up together, but maybe I'd just appreciate it more if the characters didn't necessarily get married or necessarily have a baby at the end of the story. You get what I mean? I mean not all couples want to get married, not all couples want to have babies/children.
I don't know. I'd just like a little diversity in the ending. Heck, even the whole story. I remember at one point I read a few IR books back to back and found a lot of similarities/themes other than the fact that it was IR.
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The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears
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RobinRaven wrote: "Completely agree on the safe sex and "secret baby/surprise pregnancy" thing. Now, there have been times when it's done right, and I'm not head-desking all over the place. And I would say that I'm e..."Happily For Now works for me. I'd also like to see more married couples and more middle-aged characters.
Savannah: You could be right and if so, it's sad. I hope the authors in this group are paying attention. Yes it's romance, but for marginalized women who seldom see themselves represented in a positive way, these books are important, just as Essence Magazine was important. I have wondered if the issue is a lack of description of darker skin tones. There's plenty of mocha, chocolate, toffee, caramel, etc. but jet or obsidian (which I personally like) doesn't seem to be popular.
TheFountainPenDiva wrote: "RobinRaven wrote: "Completely agree on the safe sex and "secret baby/surprise pregnancy" thing. Now, there have been times when it's done right, and I'm not head-desking all over the place. And I w..."I mean me, personally, I would like to see more Chick-Lit/Women's Fiction, and for there to involve married couples, you know, struggling to keep the marriage couple. Or any couple struggle to keep the relationship going.
I mean I know the whole point of a Romance is to have a HEA or HFN. But I just, I don't know. I want IR Women's Fiction/Chick Lit too. Hahha.
RobinRaven wrote: "Completely agree on the safe sex and "secret baby/surprise pregnancy" thing. Now, there have been times when it's done right, and I'm not head-desking all over the place. And I would say that I'm e..."Robin, Happy For Now really works for me with younger characters. I am a sucker for weddings and babies too don't get me wrong. That being said, I read a lot of FSOG-a-likes. Though I love getting lost in the drama of some of those over the top relationships; for the most part, they come across as highly dysfunctional. Even three or four books in, those people's marriage have a very low probability of HEA. It would make sense if more ended in HFN instead. That's for romance period, not just IR.
I'm always pleasantly surprised with HFN endings. Absolutely, I like a nice wrap up with a proposal or wedding, but variety is good no matter what the subject, so I'd definitely like to see this more in IR. It comes off as more realistic and allows me to relate to it more. I read for the fantasy and escapism of it but overall, if its TOO perfect it lessens the enjoyment (I know, that's bass ackward).Fountain, I get tired of authors misusing adjectives overall. I can't count how many times I read the word "chocolate" on one page then start hearing about cheeks blushing red. When I think chocolate, I think Hershey's. There is no version of a kiss or a chocolate bar that's going to show a blush. lol That irks me. By that same token, don't talk about their skin tones being "barely a shade darker" during sex then all of a sudden she's "ebony". I've seen ebony. Hell, Webster defines it as "A deep, lustrous black". It ain't barely a shade darker than ANY white person I've ever seen LOL. Authors in this genre get lazy and just start tossing out any word they feel COULD describe a black person.
More continuity is desperately needed in a lot of IR. Half the time I catch authors changing a character's age by YEARS in later chapters compared to how she was first described. Its like they don't even bother working from an outline, just fly by the seat of their britches.
Stacy-Deanne wrote: "Eugenia,I laughed when that lady said, "I can't assume I can't relate to black books". Yet do white people (and I am not trying to pick on ALL white people only the ones who feel this way), belie..."
Excellent point.
There is a surplus of hair stylist in IR novels. IJS, we can do other things besides fix hair!!
Could be the confident black girl in me, but a bunch of novels by Dorothy koomson if not all depict black women insecure with their looks. Their white love interests? Always too handsome, too smart, too much everything for the plain jane. She's usually given a vague description of having short hair, being a size 14(I believe this is a 10 in the uk, as uk sizing is different) with dark brown skin. But their love interests have exotic olive skin, burnt orange hazel eyes, they're told in too much detail at times. I definitely think as a whole women can be insecure. But every book? XD and of course these men take pity, because their personalities are beautiful. Which is ok. But idk. Tends to rub me the wrong way even when I try to understand that not all women carry around an "I'm all that" persona. But even the men sometimes tell the women she wasn't attractive to him. Huh? Good enough to lay down with? Not good enough to hold hands in public with? Good writer, sucky message...
Guinevere wrote: "Could be the confident black girl in me, but a bunch of novels by Dorothy koomson if not all depict black women insecure with their looks. Their white love interests? Always too handsome, too smart..."There are a ton. Either its the OVER confident black woman or the insecure one. No average chick in the middle.
And I get tired of them harping on size. I'd rather the author keep it vague and let us know the chick simply isn't skinny or isn't plus. I get sick of "voluptuous" and "slender". I'm also sick of them acting like a size 14 is cause for therapy. I do believe that's about average in the U.S. these days so if they want to make the point of this woman having a weight problem or issues with her weight, they need to bump that up or not talk about it at all.
Elise-all things bright and shiny wrote: "There is a surplus of hair stylist in IR novels. IJS, we can do other things besides fix hair!!"Fun fact: Hair salon ownership is the number 1 entrepreneurial venture of black women in this country. I have had to relocate several times in my life and the first thing I do when moving is to find a black hair salon.
I haven't run across too many stylists in my IR reading. The books I seem to get are the ones where she is vaguely some business professional.
Savannah~Quad-motherin'-book readin' diva wrote: "And I get tired of them harping on size. I'd rather the author keep it vague and let us know the chick simply isn't skinny or isn't plus."
I think over description of physical assets is a real problem in romance novels. Some books it is like the author feels like she needs to describe every single person down to the exact shade of skin, hair and eye color.
I read one book where the author described the first impression the heroine had of the hero is the way he sat in a chair. The way he inhabited his space. She didn't go into detail about his looks at all, just a fleeting description of dark hair and an earring. But even that was secondary to how she managed to convey his physicality and sexiness through the lens of the heroine just because of how he sat down. It struck me very much how she did that. And it did more to give me a picture of this person than any long paragraphs about his eyes or hair.
Guinevere wrote: "Could be the confident black girl in me, but a bunch of novels by Dorothy koomson if not all depict black women insecure with their looks. Their white love interests? Always too handsome, too smart..."I'm a big fan of Dorothy Koomson personally but I do see your point kind of.
Im not "not" a fan. I mean, to say I hate her books when I own 6 makes me anything but. I guess I wasn't ready for the cultural differences in British Black women as opposed to American. First three, Im like, ok, maybe it's just those characters. Six in? XD I don't know. Nothing against her, her stories are unique, well written, and break many stereotypes many American authors depicting interracial romance could take tips from. Im just not sure why of all the ones I own, they're all that way XD maybe I'd be more content with a little variety in her MC's.
Tina wrote: read one book where the author described the first impression the heroine had of the hero is the way he sat in a chair. The way he inhabited his space.Tina, I think that speaks to finesse. And its missing in a lot of IR novels still. Not sure if its because the authors are still fledgling or if its because the focus has become so centered on the actual physical act of sex vs. making a story sex-Y.
I can't stand stereotypes... like the forever "angry Black woman", or the fiery Latina, or the hood ignorant Caucasian man... I believe anyone can be those aforementioned characters. Some of my fave books are ones where it's the white man who's more street savvy, or the black girl who's demure, or the Latina who's the consummate professional. I've never been "the angry black woman" and sometimes have a hard time relating to that character as she's so often portrayed. I come from a good family, with a good background.
I know what you mean, Tyanne. I think taking something that could be stereotypical and flipping it on its head so it becomes a completely different perspective is much more interesting than just following the usual "She's black and from the hood" and "he's white and rich and lives in the suburbs". I'm writing a book now in which the main character is a black woman whose father is a judge and her mother is a surgeon. She grew up in an affluent Philadelphia suburb. The man she falls in love with is from a working neighbourhood in South Philly. He's much more street savvy than she is. And he doesn't really understand how she could have gone through life being so unaware.
Kim wrote: "I know what you mean, Tyanne. I think taking something that could be stereotypical and flipping it on its head so it becomes a completely different perspective is much more interesting than just fo..."That sounds like an interesting read. What's the full synopsis?
I'll post the full synopsis soon. I am still working out some plot kinks. :)
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Any book with variations of this title:"My (Secret) White Fill-In-The-Blank". Don't care how good they might be, those titles are a total turn off. I mean really, the covers kind of give it away that the potential mate is a white male, lol.
That sounds like a great read Kim. Can't wait for you to post more about it.
TheFountainPenDiva wrote: "Any book with variations of this title:"My (Secret) White Fill-In-The-Blank". Don't care how good they might be, those titles are a total turn off. I mean really, the covers kind of give it away ..."
Ugh! I know what you mean. It can't be so difficult to think of a catchy title that isn't so obvious.
I was recently searching for a new book to read and I was reading a book description and the book sounded like something I would read. I read a couple of reviews and saw that the heroine had a foursome. That just immediately turned me off.With IR authors I hate that they are not very diverse. Its the same type of female recycled over and over again. I feel like a majority of books have light eyes heroines with certain hair and that is just not true and representative of the black female population. One author I truly respect because her heroines are all so different is Pepper pace. It is just her books in general....no one is perfect.
I also wish IR authors would take more risk and write books that are not considered novellas.
I also love historical romances and would like to see some more of those. I think it is probably the hardest to write because of the research and the subject of putting a interracial couple together in a time were they are not accepted, but do it in a way were they get their happy ending.
TheFountainPenDiva wrote: "Any book with variations of this title:"My (Secret) White Fill-In-The-Blank". Don't care how good they might be, those titles are a total turn off. I mean really, the covers kind of give it away ..."
That's been driving me crazy lately! There seems to be a lot of books that are announcing race or color in the title or right after it. Like you said, clearly we know it's an IR. I feel those books are less about the story and more about race. As if BW/WM or any other combination is such a novelty that it needs to be added in the title...
Mstcat wrote: "TheFountainPenDiva wrBreeding the Black Babysitterote: "Any book with variations of this title:"My (Secret) White Fill-In-The-Blank". Don't care how good they might be, those titles are a total turn off. I mean really, the c..."
What's even worse than the white ones, are the black titles. This Breeding the Black Babysitter was free on Amazon at one time; but was called f***ing instead.
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There's not a lot of IR historical fiction as it is (sad) but the little of it there is seems to be centered around the antebellum South or set on a plantation. This is just not romantic to me. Even if the white hero is enlightened as all get out and willing to risk it all for the "forbidden" love of a black woman, we're still talking about an unequal power structure at a time when black women had NO autonomy over their bodies. Writers can't get around that glaring fact. Just knowing how unbalanced it was takes away any sense of romance for me.
Not to mention, why THIS period of history in particular? Maybe I wouldn't have an issue if other eras, such as the ancient or medieval worlds were written about more extensively--one reason I love Shiree McCarver's Elizabethan-themed IR's. It's like we've erased our own history and contributions to the tapestry of time. I would love to see more books set in Africa and the Mediterranean world or books set during the Moorish occupation of Spain. Heck, the only reason I watched the Kevin Costner version of Robin Hood was Morgan Freeman's character, which made perfect historical sense. There was a wonderful art exhibition about the African presence in Renaissance Europe. You all should check it out.