Fans of Interracial Romance discussion
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What Turns You OFF When Reading an Interracial Romance?
Jeanna wrote: "Arch wrote: "You ladies should try Goodwill, The Salvation Army or even your libraries. One of the libraries I use to buy books are now selling books again. The price has went up, but it's still b..."I agree with you. It's slow going incorporating different sub-genres into romance and it shouldn't be. When I started reading romance there wasn't any African American romance whatsoever. However, I do have a Historical Romance about an African American couple entitled "Nate's Lady" by Bernadette Parkin written in 1981.
This was the first book I ever read about a black couple. It's on my keeper shelf. I don't know if Ms. Parkin ever wrote anything else, so rest assured someone was writing back in the day. Eventually the African American romance bloomed and took off. It took awhile for that to happen. Maybe that's the same case scenario for interracial romance. My first IR romance read was "The Color of Love," by Sandra Kitt. Love her older stuff. I don't know if she's still writing or not either.
We, as readers, know it's not for lack of talent, good writing or authors. There is most assuredly a market for interracial romance. Personally, I think it rests with the publishers and the bottom line. Money always plays a part, I think.
Gwen wrote: "Andrea wrote: "Gwen wrote: I searched. There's only one version of this book out. You know, I just attributed it to poor editing..."The poster probably means an earlier draft of the manuscript th..."
That's what I was saying. Your work is a reflection of you and you wouldn't go to a job interview (one that you're highly qualified for) for a company you're highly passionate about with a stained shirt, shoes on the wrong feet, unkempt hair, etc. And if you do and you are actually qualified and have an impressive resume, you make it VERY HARD for potential employers to see what you can offer them.
Same thing here. I know these authors really want to post out their various IR work, but I think they should go through and correct those errors. I don't even think you have to hire someone, but as Gwen said, you can involve your friends and family. There's something about someone else seeing your work with a fresh pair of eyes that can help you correct those major types of consistency errors.
I'm also really big on grammar as well, and if I'm reading something that has a significant number of errors, I will put it down and never go back to it and it sounds like a lot of people are of that opinion as well.
Proofread, proofread, proofread!
Mod
I like both characters to exhude the same levels of attractivenes. I don't like ugly duckling, fat (I like volumptuous), dumpy, or any variation of hot guy giving the undeserving girl a pity screw. It's one thing when the herione is really attractive but just doesn't realize it, but I don't like reading "why is he with me, he can be with anyone..." over and over.
Catherine wrote: significant number of errors, I will put it down and never go back to it and it sounds like a lot of people are of that opinion as well. Proofread, proofread, proofread!..."
And get an editor! A good one. I'm with you on this.
Paganalexandria wrote: "I like both characters to exhude the same levels of attractivenes. I don't like ugly duckling, fat (I like volumptuous), dumpy, or any variation of hot guy giving the undeserving girl a pity screw..."ICAM with this...sick and tired of it too. Obviously dude is feeling the chick (he finds her appealing) if he's bothering with her. It's pointless IMO to even mention or even hint at the heroine being "ugly" because it's apparent they're not unattractive to the hero. Whose to say that the person is even really ugly? A person can be super hot on the outside, have a nasty personality-attitude and I'll find them repulsive. That right there just shows that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Don't even get me started on a pity screw...automatic DNF when I read that.
Mod
Attitude counts for a lot. You can be the most handsomest guy or beautiful girl and depending on the attitude you effect, that can make you really look bad. As for ugly, I think beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It's an individual thing. I don't think I've ever read where the hero has given the heroine a pity screw. Definitely not romantic. Big turn off!
Gwen wrote: "Attitude counts for a lot. You can be the most handsomest guy or beautiful girl and depending on the attitude you effect, that can make you really look bad. As for ugly, I think beauty is in the ..."Okay, I haven't read one that it was boldly stated but have read tons of plus size ones that had the "pity screw feel". You know the whole book is heroine talking about her cellulite/belly and the gym rat hero is all "she isn't my normal type but her personality" (because who is attracted to insecurity?). The major conflict usually featured in these kinds of stories is the hero convincing the heroine that someone like him could love her. No thank you. I am not a size 2 but find them patronizing in the extreme. Avoid them like the plaque.
For those on a tight budget like me, there are also several paperback trading sites on line. I've gotten several books that I really wanted or to complete a collection. Naturally, you're not likely to find the latest releases though.
Mod
Arch wrote: "In a lot of books period, I have seen where the heroine wondered why the hero was with her. I don't think that should be written in a book, because a hero is not all that and if he supposed to be all that, then that's sad. Women and men both comes in all sizes and we all have cellulite and stretch marks. A man and woman should always fall in love with the heart and not the outer appearance. A person can be beautiful today and considered ugly tomorrow (for example. Get in an accident and their face gets scarred up.), will they still be loved? "That is why my original posts included any ugly duckling stories (unless she turns into a swan at the end). I read romance for the fantasy. I don't want to hear my friends go on and on about their cellulite, let alone have to endure someone complain about it in something I paid money for. What's sexy about that? I want to read about confident sexy people. In theory we should all love people for their hearts, but in real life you don't notice "hearts" across a crowded room (at least I never have). You notice a smile, eyes, hair, or something lower :).
There is only one book (not IR) featuring a plus sized heroine on my all-time favorite list: Night Play by Sherrilyn Kenyon. That book mentions Bride is a beautiful size 18. She has some insecurity because she always hears how pretty she would be if she lost weight. This is mentioned but doesn't become the only plot point in the book. Vane is a very long lived Were hunter who actually prefers a woman with curves. He finds everything about her perfect. This book also doesn't mention how all his other girlfriends before were perfect size fours but all of a sudden he notices a bigger girl (like so many books featuring bigger girls). You, the reader, never get the impression Bride is anything but beautiful. In my mind she became Botticelli's Venus.
I have read too many books featuring "unconventionally looking" people with every box marked on my reading annoyances check list; now if it's mentioned in the blurb it's automatically skipped.
message 214:
by
Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors
(last edited Oct 25, 2012 12:10PM)
(new)
Mod
Personally, I find perfection boring. Most guys in real life that are gorgeous haven't really appealed to me because their personality didn't click with me.
So I guess my point is that this plot can work very well when done right. And yes, I do like the ugly duckling books because I think they do show the idea that inner beauty is what shines through. But to each their own, really.
I know for me, sex-focused romance where the main attraction between a couple is sexual attraction really do nothing for me. And others might like that.
I find that unless the story is some sort of take-off of Beauty and the Beast or Ugly Duckling where the person's appearance is germane to the plot and has a deeper overall meaning, then I really don't like the book to actually dwell on appearances at all too much. 
by Pepper Pace is a good example of a book that was a really well done exploration about appearance and acceptance.For me, it is a real turn off to read about a plus size heroine whose insecurities about her size seems to come off less about beauty being in the eye of the beholder and more as the author saying 'look! I am writing about a fat heroine! And hot billionaires/Navy Seals can love big girls too. Aren't I awesome!?!?' I am not saying this is always the case but more and more I am finding it to be an overworn trope.
OTOTH, I am also very much over long, descriptive passages about how absolutely gorgeous or ripped the H&H are. How luscious their hair/skin/teeth/eyes/thighs/arms etc. I think I have downloaded 20+ samples where the hero is licking his lips over the 'chocolate mocha-skinned beauty.' And this is just the sample which means that it is in the first ten to twenty pages usually. So much auto-delete going on right there.
My preference is somewhere in the middle. Where you have reasonably attractive people who are still flawed, and yet find in each other something utterly beautiful that has nothing to do with appearance.
I have read in a book where the hero literally thought and said he was too good for the heroine and was sleeping with her only because 'for whatever reason' she could get him up, if you get my drift. He knew how much she wanted and liked him and told her that was why he was even going there with her. This was an IR novel by the way. To me that's just out of control. Sleeping with someone only because they like you and have your nether region stirring, not because you find them mutually appealing, is giving them some out of pity.And...I am with those who like plain looking characters. I actually prefer my main characters to have injuries and/or major flaws. Like if she or he had a disability I'd read that book before I'd read one where the H/H were beautiful or 'normal' by the author's definition. For me, it's personal. My father has prosthesis on his arms from an electrical accident he had before he met my mother. I've always been intrigued by the fact that my mother could see past my father's injuries to the man. If she hadn't I and all of my six siblings wouldn't be here...so I look for stories where the heroes are physically injured.
I can't stand the following:1. Female characters whose intelligence is underplayed
2. Female characters who are so weak that they have to be rescued by the White Knight
3. Heavy handed amounts of Erotica & not to mention, (in your face) BDSM, where there are loads of scenes depicting humiliation and border-line abuse.
4. Stories that have more Sex than an actual Plot. Whatever happened to telling a really good story that's seasoned with Romance/Erotica?
Anino wrote: "I can't stand the following:1. Female characters whose intelligence is underplayed
2. Female characters who are so weak that they have to be rescued by the White Knight
3. Heavy handed amounts of ..."
I'm with you 100%!
What's happened is - suddenly it's been discovered that the interracial market is live and raw and real. Too many writers have fallen under the belief that "Sex Sales" and is using that to make money.
They're writing for MONEY - when you write for something like MONEY... you miss the point. Thus, believing that sex sales, they write stories loaded with gratuitous sex scenes. Because sex can only be written in so many ways - in order to try something new, they start adding things that are to me, "MY OPINION ONLY" disgusting and disturbing.
It's heartbreaking really. We KEEP ON proving the WORLD RIGHT about us. When there are so many serious black writers trying to prove that we are better than what's clogging the market now. Personally, it gets me down so I fight depression over it.
So basically, too may stories are written without a plot, a moral, a message, a meaning, a lesson for the readers to learn. These are not stories from the heart of soul of persons wishing to bring us up, these are stories from persons rolling the dice and hoping to sell a few hundred or thousand copies to get MONEY.
Doesn't really work, because TRUE readers want substance, a plot, a morel, romance and character development. REAL readers know when they've been duped. Being fair, they will give a writer a few more chances but in most cases, three strikes, you're out!
There are some wonderful brilliant interracial authors out there, but unfortunately, they are being buried in - well... CRAP. And what's sad, the crap writers are ruining this genre and giving it a bad name.
My husband and I wanted with all of our hearts to write interracial literate to CLEAN UP the taboo about interracial relationships. A while back I remember googling interracial stories, novels, romance... know what came up? Loads of pages of PORN. Because interracial relationships were considered, taboo, deviant, kinky, perverse. I hated it! Because it's not true.
We started writing, and digging, and finding quality premises for REAL stories surrounding interracial relationships. Loaded with a morels, romance and strong characters and plots. We trying to continue that vein because we believe in the TRUTH of what happened in the past and is happening now with interracial relationships.
There are many writers - black women and men writers who if they can't write a story that MEANS something, that has heart, soul, substance... then they won't write it. We - my husband I feel the same way. Words are too powerful to be wasted on CRAP. Hopefully, this ugly trend will start to die out and the writers of substance will rise and emerge victorious in this important battle to put interracial literature and relationships in it's rightful place of prestige.
It'll happen... but the ugly, the weeds must first die out or be weeded out, then the better, cleaner will shine.
Arch wrote: "In a lot of books period, I have seen where the heroine wondered why the hero was with her. I don't think that should be written in a book, because a hero is not all that and if he supposed to be a..."Sorry to use cliche, but beauty is very much in the eye of the beholder. It's different for everyone.
One of the few instincts left in Humans, is sexual or physical attraction.
It goes to the primal level of the brain. Men in particular see physical or outer beauty first. It's not really an active thought, but more what we are.
Yes this is a generalization, but most often true.
Seeing inner beauty comes after, that's just the way it is. When love begins to develop (whatever that really means, as it's different for everyone) a man seeks the inner beauty of the woman he cares for or loves. He wants to find it. If he does find it then the level of attraction increases, and often surpasses the physical. If inner beauty is not there or he can't see it, he will create it. He will see what he wants to see.
D.
Mod
When I write stories, I make it my business to show my character falling in love with the heart and not the looks. Looks can change, but strong love will never fade.
Arch wrote: "Looks aren't everything. Just because someone looks nice to someone, it doesn't mean their inside is nice. That's why a person shouldn't fall in love with the looks, but the heart. A lot of men are..."No looks aren't everything, But most often it triggers the desire to approach someone. You'll never know the inner beauty of a person, unless there is something that draws you to them.
It doesn't have to be physical attraction, often I've been drawn to women because of what they say, how they say it, and so on. Conversely, I've met absolutely beautiful women, that lost there appeal to me, when I found how they were inside.
"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."
Carl Jung
Gwen wrote: "Attitude counts for a lot. You can be the most handsomest guy or beautiful girl and depending on the attitude you effect, that can make you really look bad. As for ugly, I think beauty is in the ..."Excellent point, Could not have said it better!
Mod
I will speak for myself. I hate when a man sees my body and not me. I'm not my body. I'm not even my looks.
message 224:
by
Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors
(last edited Oct 29, 2012 09:49AM)
(new)
Mod
Anino, cosign on your list.
Mercedes, I find that I have to agree with you about quality issues in the interracial genre. All the sex hype is turning me off this genre, and I think it is causing it to be pigeonholed and stereotyped.
Dave, since I am not a man, I can't say you are wrong. However, I like to think that men can want something more than looks in a woman. I'm not ugly, nor have I ever been (other than that ugly stage we all go through in the early teens), but I have never wanted to be loved/liked,/accepted for the way I look. I freely admit to downplaying my looks either deliberately or because that's not the most important thing to me. I want to be respected for my character. I feel the same way towards men.
Mercedes wrote: "Anino wrote: "I can't stand the following:1. Female characters whose intelligence is underplayed
2. Female characters who are so weak that they have to be rescued by the White Knight
3. Heavy han..."
@Mercedes - Well said Mercedes. I am tried of reading books with just sex with no plot or character development and I couldn't agree with you more that it's all about the MONEY. We must remember SEX appeals to todays generation and it sells. Hopefully writers will go back to writing from their heart and not just for the money.
@Mercedes, I'm one of those also disheartened by the fact that most interracial romance searches I pull up on just about any site- will result in filling up the your puter screen with erotica ( both on the covers and inside the books).If that’s what the majority of readers want and what the most IR writers want to write then maybe everyone is happy. But, I do find many comments and reviews from readers wondering what is going on in the genre. And I’m seeing these kinds of disappointed commentaries more and more. Perhaps it’s a good time to offer these readers more alternatives?
@Dave, to each their own is true, but I do find that it seems more and more that authors aren't offering readers a balance. If you are a reader who is interested in erotica, you'll have no problem finding it in IR. And I understand for some it's a must in a romance story, but I don't agree that a romance without sex can't amply show the passion or love two people have for each other. Or that it can’t fairly exhibit the love a couple has found unless the curtain is pulled all the way back to reveal their lovemaking. Just my opinion. For me personally, explicit offerings pull me out of the story, and all I’m left with is being shoved into processing the writer’s word choices, and or how far they go or don’t go, how many of the same old words are used and in which ways, and what crosses the line for me, and what just sounds silly or off-putting—all of that for me, and perhaps for other readers is a huge distraction, and actually not very romantic. I’ve only read a few authors, that for me who write sex scenes seamlessly-- without making it feel like I’m walking onto a favorite couple I know having sex and walking away not feeling the same about them.
It does also seem like there are IR writers who are jumping on the bandwagon of putting out explicit IRs to just make cash, and they have a right to do so. That’s the market place, and those who aren’t good writers may still sell lots of books. *shrug*
Without a balance, though--I think it's easy for many to think that erotica is all IR is about. I personally don't think that's a valid representation of interracial romance. And I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here, I just want to finally put out in public my observation and disappointment of not being able to find, as a reader, IR books that I want to read, or am excited about reading, or that are a fit for what I like to read. My response, as a writer—is that feel compelled to put out books that I hope will offer folks who are looking for it— more IR reads that aren't explicit.
To each their own, I think, works best when readers have a variety from which to choose.
I know there are many excellent writers who love writing sex, and do it well. Giving readers quality reads, and who have tons of fans that will be there for every book they put out. I would love to see more sweet IR writers putting out books regularly and getting that kind of love! :)
Mod
Where's the Cop, FBI Agent, Navy Seal, etc. interracial stories? Anne Stuart wrote two interracial contemporary interracial stories. AM/WW. I wish she would write a black woman/white man story. 3 contemporary stories would do.
I want to read about dangerous bad boys. Sam Starrett is my baby!
message 228:
by
The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears
(new)
Everyone here pretty much knows that I've been one of the supporting voices for interracial erotica/erotic romance because I believe in depicting healthy and positive sexuality for black women (and women of color in general). I believe that our sexuality has been so mis-appropriated and bogged down in racism, that having these books written by black authors is helping to restore the balance.However...
I'M SO BORED NOW!!!!
Just because it's erotica is NO EXCUSE to write crap! Yes, I get that "Tab A" fits into "Slot B" (and C, D, and E). This isn't just a symptom of the IR subgenre. Most of the erotica/erotic romance genre has gotten lame. No story, no characters worthy of the name, and endless bandwagon jumping. Sorry, but I don't want another 50 Shades of Dreck clone. I want originality. I want a REAL story with characters I care about. Even if it's BDSM, I want to see an author who at least gives a damn to do their homework on the lovestyle and try to get it right. Interracial romances are squandering the chance to be what mainstream romance/erotica isn't and that hurts my heart because I truly love and support this genre.
Also, there needs to be a clear delineation of what is "erotic" and what is "sensual". A lot of IR books are being mis-labeled as "erotic" when they really aren't. This is no accident. There is still a mindset that interracial relationships are "taboo", hence they are categorized as erotica.
Mercedes, I totally understand what you're saying about looking for interracial stories. I swear if I see one more "Big Black D*ck bangs Petite White Chick" site or story I'm gonna wring someone's neck, LOL! So tired of the privileged and racist trope being pandered about.
I still like the spicy side of IR romance, but learn how to combine it with a good story and good characters. Writing erotica is hard, I know from first-hand experience. Hard doesn't mean impossible, though.
@ TheFountainPenDiva : *slow clap* I agree with everything you say.As for Pity scew in a story, I think it's just yuck. And I just hate any mention of a one night stand with no condom..double yuck!!
When it the heroine wondering why the hero is with her, I don't mind as long as it is not repeated 50 gazillion times (which it usually is). I happen to think like that also. Not because I beleive I am unlikeable...it's just that sometimes I see a guy, and I come to the conclusion that I am not his type (for some reason). And then when the guy makes his interest known, it takes me by surprise and I do ask myself this question.lol
I think there is this unspoken challenge in IR these days. Every author is trying to outdo the other one by writing the steamiest, most shocking and daring scenes in the whole history of litterature. I won't be surprised if one day I read about the H/h dangling from the top of a building and tied by a rope while going at it...I need for autors to focus on the STORY and CHARACTERS.
Mod
Tisha wrote: "I think it's just yuck. And I just hate any mention of a one night stand with no condom..double yuc..."Reading about unsafe sex with confirmed manwhores will take me completely out of the story. The writer can insist the herione is smart, but once that happens she becomes TSTL to me. I actually like unplanned pregnacy storylines, but would prefer the old condom failure device to resolve plot points.
I don't like racial name calling even in jest
Mod
Thanks for the idea, Tisha. (kidding!)
I can meet a plain or average woman, and with the proper praise, compliments, and affection make her beautiful, to herself and everyone around her. Beauty can be very much a state of mind. I have seen it. If a woman believes she is attractive, pretty or beautiful, then she most often will be.
And before anyone says it, this has nothing to do with pity. It has to do with giving more than you expect to receive.
Mod
Arch wrote: "Every woman is beautiful. To me, there's no such thing as a plain Jane."Every woman also is a sexual being. To me there's no such thing as romance and love without Sex and/or Making Love (given we already know they are in love, then same song, different title) and intimacy, to me it just seems completely ridiculous, unnatural, unhealthy, and to me it's totally unrealistic!
Mod
I can write a romance story without my characters sleeping together and guess what, it's still a romance story. Sex isn't everything. You do realize that some married couples stop sleeping together at a certain age. Does that means that they don't love one another? The answer is no. Love is deeper than sex. In my opinion, sex should be 5% of a marriage. Let me say that there's a difference between sex and love making. A lot of books have sex in them, but not too many have love making. So, love making should be 5% of a marriage.
I don't read stories for sex. I read stories for a story and tension. I want to see the love the man and woman have for one another. A candlelight dinner can show love. Skating can show love. Hugging can show love.
Mod
the key word you used here Arch is TENSION. I really like it when a book leaves me breathless with anticipation, when I am waiting for the protagonist to express their feelings towards each other...and maybe later end up in bed (wink,wink). As you can see here, I agree with both you and Dave :)
Tisha wrote: "the key word you used here Arch is TENSION. I really like it when a book leaves me breathless with anticipation, when I am waiting for the protagonist to express their feelings towards each other....."Ditto!
Mod
Dave wrote: "How Romantic can a man really be, when he loves a woman?(excerpt from)
"Life's Greatest Blessing, Love IS Truly Blind" copyright 2012, David W. Cape, All Rights Reserved
...It had become a bit ..."
It most certainly is! I love it!!! :)
Mod
Proofing and editing issues can spoil it for me. I like to read a book straight through with out having to insert the proper word LOL. I also, don't like a lot of focus on race unless it's a central part of the story. In my book Chocolate Surprise, I gave the illusion of there being a conflict, and you might think it's racial but, from the outset, you find out it's a feud between the family's over a barque recipe. I had great fun with that story line because the natural tendency is to make it race based.
I love the natural or flawed character. I know one person mentioned they don't want to read about their friends but, I like to read stories where the character is flawed or self conscious. Now I DON'T like a lot of self deprecation or, if they are over critical through out the book. however, a little bit of self consciousness and a strong finish is one of my loves as an IR reader. I guess I like to root for the underdog.
Gwen wrote: "We, as readers, know it's not for lack of talent, good writing or authors. There is most assuredly a market for interracial romance. Personally, I think it rests with the publishers and the bottom line. Money always plays a part, I think.
"
This is so true, money, whether its bookstore shelving, publishing companies fearing a drop in sales, or most of minority literature is obscured, not market mainstream, so talent gets washed out by bigger names.
One of my new fav authors on here, actually wrote a piece on it for a guest post on a blog about it, and she brought up some very good points.
"
This is so true, money, whether its bookstore shelving, publishing companies fearing a drop in sales, or most of minority literature is obscured, not market mainstream, so talent gets washed out by bigger names.
One of my new fav authors on here, actually wrote a piece on it for a guest post on a blog about it, and she brought up some very good points.
Leah wrote: "I don't like racial name calling even in jest"
wow, you read that? I've never read that in an interracial romance, and I run a review site
wow, you read that? I've never read that in an interracial romance, and I run a review site
Tisha wrote: "@ TheFountainPenDiva : *slow clap* I agree with everything you say.
As for Pity scew in a story, I think it's just yuck. And I just hate any mention of a one night stand with no condom..double yuc..."
Please don't get offended fellow posters, but this is one of the main reasons minority authors in this genre don't sell well, because of thoughts like that.
When I read a romance, especially paranormal, I'm not thinking about a condom ( really, that's just weird to me), because its fricken fantasy.
I review hundreds of books, maybe even thousands a year (three years now on my site), and not one book I've reviewed, or my posters to the site have ever brought up what you guys have.
I'm kinda confused why you'd be thinking about that anyway in a work of fiction. we read to escape the troubles of the world, its fiction?
unfortunately, way too many minority females because of antiquated old grannies tellin them what's right and what's wrong are sexually repressed, and it shows in some of the comments.
These are works of fiction, why would that even matter?
In everyday life, I whole heartily agree, es claro, but a book? C'mon, that's just plain tonto!
As for Pity scew in a story, I think it's just yuck. And I just hate any mention of a one night stand with no condom..double yuc..."
Please don't get offended fellow posters, but this is one of the main reasons minority authors in this genre don't sell well, because of thoughts like that.
When I read a romance, especially paranormal, I'm not thinking about a condom ( really, that's just weird to me), because its fricken fantasy.
I review hundreds of books, maybe even thousands a year (three years now on my site), and not one book I've reviewed, or my posters to the site have ever brought up what you guys have.
I'm kinda confused why you'd be thinking about that anyway in a work of fiction. we read to escape the troubles of the world, its fiction?
unfortunately, way too many minority females because of antiquated old grannies tellin them what's right and what's wrong are sexually repressed, and it shows in some of the comments.
These are works of fiction, why would that even matter?
In everyday life, I whole heartily agree, es claro, but a book? C'mon, that's just plain tonto!
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My library has hardly any books on interracial romance at all. It's sad. I look up authors and it's like all I get is no that book is not here. Shameful.