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What Turns You OFF When Reading an Interracial Romance?
Chaeya wrote: "I've been offended more times than I can count by white authors attempting to write in a black character. The usual sassy, "sweet Jesus" "oh Lord, help me now" type lingo turns me off, and I have ..."I know what you mean about the black gangbanger drug movies. I just saw Brooklyn's Finest with my sis-in-law, nephew and parents last night. My mom walked out of the movie because she couldn't take the dark tone. My stepdad thought the movie just seemed to showcase all the stereotypes that black people are dealing with everyday. It's not something I will bother watching again.
Thanks Arch, I'm in my bedroom cleaning and I couldn't think about going through all those DVDs. I didn't see Cop Out and don't plan on it. But yes, you're right, a lot of comedies don't do well. I tend to get them on DVDs for the kids, so I figure I'm supporting through sales.I don't know how Tracy got pushed out there because even on SNL his skits weren't funny. I like Bruce Willis too and if we're gonna deal with black people acting like a fool, I much rathered The Fifth Element because Chris Tucker was funny as heck.
Michelle, I loved the Cosby Show! When it first came out, my friends and I would gather around the tv and watch it. I was working at a black owned law firm at the time, so I remember many of us debating about the "realistic" issue, especially from the blacks I knew who grew up in middle class neighborhoods. We saw the Cosby Show as us finally having a voice.
I know in my books, I based my characters on people I knew and who were my friends. I also stick with what I know and what I've experienced in some form or other. However, I worked beyond the stereotypes to the point where they could have been any race. I didn't want the race thing to be an issue. It's an issue, but from an different nationality standpoint.
I applaud Ms. Feehan for daring to do and to just ignore whatever criticism she got. I didn't read her book, but I'm sure it was prob well enough from what I heard and she was thoughtful. Honestly, these other authors either was going on stereotypes or their friends really were hoodrats.
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That's true in part, Eugenia, but really, I know I'm just tired of seeing the same old stereotypes. I'm not looking for sunny, blue sky stories, just something out of the friggin' ghetto. I know there are a variety of ages on this board, but I grew up in the 70s, so I lived through the Black Exploitation era. There's still much too inner city ghetto being shown about black people, and the same happens to hispanics too. And these rappers don't help either with their "thug life" representations.I'm not saying someone can't put a little sistah girl in their black characters, but when it's overwhelming and not enough gray area, it's a turn off. I find nowadays just as many white women can neck roll and do the sistah girl just as well as black women can now, ha ha!
Stereotypes are going to exist unfortunately, and it's funny to listen to comedians talk about them, but when you have a number of black actors and actresses suffering for work and the only work they can get is only cops, hoodlums and hoodrats, something must be said.
As far as black directors. They have a lot on their plate. Hollywood has tons of directors and screenwriters all trying to make it. The bad thing is, you can't get producer money unless (a) you got an in to that producer; (b) you can convince that producer your idea will make money - old played out stereotypes; and (c) having enough big names in your movie to convince them to invest in it.
Right now, French black people are mad as hell because Gerard Depardieu was chosen to play Alexandre Dumas in an upcoming movie. Dumas was half black and there's nothing black about Depardieu. However, it isn't so much racism that he was chosen that whoever's producing the movie wants (as Shakespeare put it) "asses in seats." Depardieu has a strong following. Put an unknown half black actor in the role and it becomes a "B-movie" for art cinema. It may win some Sundance awards, but it isn't going to bring folks to the theater.
@Eugenia-what are you reading?
Eugenia, I'm not saying that either, we both want the same thing. ;o)
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This is a great conversation throughout the thread. I agree with you guys about seeing some more complex stories in movies and books. There was a blog by the author of Orange Mint and Honey (her book was made into the Sins of the Mother Lifetime movie with Jill Scott--good movie, btw) and she posted a blog titled 'Are We All Precious'? Due to the big critic and award hoopla about Precious, it's good that POC received accolades for their work but on the other hand, Hollywood seems to only want to fund 'downtrodden inner city black folk' type of stories rather than showcasing a variety of movies. It's a shame because I really missed the romantic comedies of the past. I would love to see more racially diverse romantic comedies, dramas and especially sci-fi and fantasy but I only come across them in the short film and indie circuit from people who step out of the norm of Hwood.
Back to book world, I'm noticing a lot of IR romances featuring the same kind of heroines as well. I dubbed it the superwoman trope where the woman is just so strong and hardcore that she can handle everything and everyone, with an attitude on top. This would be okay if the character was given more than just 'tude to define them but it feels like it's falling into cliche territory. The sad thing on top of that is the hero is always trying to please the heroine even though he's treated like a pet. Meh. That's when I lose my suspension of disbelief glasses.
I'm eager to read Dark Possession. I heard the critical cries when it came out but I was intrigued to see how Feehan handled MaryAnn. Plus the pictures she had on her myspace of the photo shoot with MaryAnn and Manolito (?) was soo swoon worthy I had to read their literature versions.
Here's the page with the shoot. Scroll down to see the slide show down toward the bottom.
http://www.christinefeehan.com/dark_p...
Anywho, just wanted to chime and say I agree with most of what was elegantly well said here.
Oh, and Antoine Fuqua needs to go back to making films like Replacement Killers rather than Brooklyn's Finest. And not shaft us on the kiss at the end this time. (I'm still bitter about the end; along with Romeo Must Die and The Pelican Brief).
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You need to write faster, Rae. That's one of the solutions to the diversity issue in IR romance. :)
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Once I started reading the posts here, I went right out and bought Dark Possession. I didn't try to behave :)
I agree with you, Eugenia. "Precious" isn't my kind of movie either. I just know a number of real life "Precious" girls and I don't really want to see it as a fantasy. I can't wait to see Clash of the Titans either, but only after I see Alice in Wonderland. This weekend, I can't wait!
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Great minds think alike, Michelle. :)
Rae wrote: "The sad thing on top of that is the hero is always trying to please the heroine even though he's treated like a pet. Meh. That's when I lose my suspension of disbelief glasses...."Thank you! That's what I've been saying. No strong man is going to stand for that. Can I shine your shoes too, honey? LOL. That's one fo the interesting things about Nalini Singh. She's a PNR author, but she plays with and addresses the power dynamic in interesting ways.
I would like to see Gabby do a remake of Bagdad Cafe. The original featured German actress Marianne Saegebrecht and CCH Pounder. It's one of my favorite movies and I think it could be done with the roles reversed.For those who haven't seen the movie (not the tv series) without giving any spoilers away: Marianne is abandoned out in the desert by her butthead husband and she happens upon a little motel called Bagdad Cafe run by CCH Pounder who is I hate to say the typical stereotype of a black woman. A shiftless husband, she's yelling at everyone through the whole film and Marianne who is a BBW brings all this magic and life to the place and even gets wooed by Jack Palance. Despite the stereotypes, it's still one of those cult films for me that I enjoy watching, I don't know. But I think if Gabby played Marianne's role, I would definitely be interested. And the loudmouth woman could be a white woman this time around. Ha ha.
Here's the link: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095801/
I'm gonna do some research to see how you go about doing a remake and getting the license for it. I'm going to write a treatment for it and see how far I get. Wish me luck.
The producers from Modern Family want her as well. I love that show like whoa! It is my must see tv. And I could so easily see Gabby interacting with them. It'd be hysterical.Did anyone see her on the Jimmy Kimmel show? Oh she kills me! She was talking about how she photobombed Jake Gyllenhal on the red carpet and how she was had a dance off with one of Madonna's dancers. She is the best guest to have on talk shows. She tells the best anecdotes and she is so funny and bubbly.
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Ooh and I so can't wait to see what you think of DP. I'll be eagerly awaiting your review hehe. Wasn't her promo material awesome? I hope she does more couples like that.
Fuqua did King Arthur and Tears of the Sun? Wow, I didn't know that. Must add that to my To See list asap. Another good director is F. Gary Gray. I loved the remake to The Italian Job (which is weird because I don't usually like remakes) and hoped he did more good stuff like that.
Gah! That's so true. I so need to write faster. I'm getting lazy because I'm falling into my reading/editing mode and the muse keeps tapping her foot in the corner. Maybe if I ask her nicely to bring me a Thomas K clone...
Hehe.
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Tha..."
Ooh! I like the sound of that. I may have to move Nalini Singh up for my next series tackle (I abandoned the Sookie series cause I wanted to smack Ms. Stackhouse).
LOL, Rae! I think you would like her! She also has an angel series that's darker and more UF-like in that the relationship is not tied up in one book, so you might like that one better.
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I finished Dark Possession, and I loved it. I felt that a lot of love went into writing MaryAnn. She's not the slightest bit stereotypical. Definitely a woman I'd love to know and be friends with. I recommend it. You can read my review if you want more 411.
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I finished Dark Possession, and I loved it. I felt that a lot of love went into writing MaryAnn. She's not the slightest bit stereotypical. Definit..."
Just since the other day, you've finished Dark Possession?! I'm so jealous. I've been working on the same book all week!
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"Rae wrote: "The sad thing on top of that is the hero is always trying to please the heroine even though he's treated like a pet. Meh. That's when I lose my suspension of disbelief ..."new_user wrote: "Thank you! That's what I've been saying. No strong man is going to stand for that. Can I shine your shoes too, honey? LOL. That's one fo the interesting things about Nalini Singh. She's a PNR author, but she plays with and addresses the power dynamic in interesting ways."
That's one of the things I really dislike about romance as well. Books/authors that pander to women just because its mostly women who read the genre ... arghhh. I particularly dislike unrealistic relationship dynamics where the men are always such deferential, self-sacrificing nitwits running around with their tails between their legs.
I like to see a healthy balance because that's how relationship are (or should be), imo. There's a steady shift and flow of power between the two partners, not one lording over the other or being too entitled.
There are so many popular authors who do this, it's frustrating. There's one in particular that I'm planning to drop, but it depends on how the latest book goes for me. All the others I don't bother to read anymore. I have Singh's Slave To Sensation on my TBR. I'll definitely get to it soon.
My new pet peeve when reading IR is the reinforcement of stereotypes. I'm not going to repeat them in this post as I'm sure we all know what the standard ones are. It annoys me when characters are revealed to buy into cliche and act upon them. In my view, it reveals the hero or heroine to be shallow and lack character and intelligence. The restating of sterotypes also interferes with telling of the story and gives a "soap opera" like quality to the book. Just finished reading such a novel that had real promise and I had to force myself to finish reading it after the heroine wondered about the size of the white guy's p**** and his sexual prowess. (Using asterisks as I don't want to offend anyone in the group.)That type of stuff is just tiresome and I'm running across it more and more in IR. Maybe, since I'm not as new the genre as I was 6 mos. ago, I'm noticing it more and am just sick of reading the same old character revelations. I'm going to revise my "to read" list with a more critical eye for the IR novels I read in the future.
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Just because a man is black, it doesn't mean he's large.
Agree. I think certain things should just be kept out of books. I mean, most Romance novels deal with two people who are just very attracted to each other. There's an electric magnetism between them. The novel should center around that and the conflict it causes wherever or however. Some things I think you would find more in a general fiction novel.Again, just my two cents.
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Another thing I hate is the girl with the attitude meets calm White guy. I know you mentioned this. One of the first IR books I read had a chick like this. She got pregnant by her playa Black boyfriend, had an abortion, and then called the hero to take care of her. I'm not trying to get political, but that took some nerve for her to do that. I kept the book for years b/c it was one of my first IRs. But I came to realize I didn't like it that much. I traded to someone else. Now, I'm a lot more picky about IR books. I love the genre, but to be honest, there are a lot of mainstream non-IRs that I love more, that are rich with story, not uncomfortably kinky, and don't have heroines I want to slap. I'll continue to support this genre, but I will pick the stories that suit my reading tastes.
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I don't like stories like this.
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Oh! Okay :)
I kind of had a feeling after reading your post that it was the book you've sent me.
That is offensive, wondering about the man's genitalia like he's another species or an experiment.Danielle, I don't like that either. Why can't the heroine be calm too? LOL.
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Arch, I thought I told you about it. Sorry, I hope you don't feel I stuck you with a bad book.
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Arch, I thought I told you about it. Sorry, I hope you don't feel I stuck you with a bad book."
I'm fine Danielle.
Alicia wrote: "My new pet peeve when reading IR is the reinforcement of stereotypes. I'm not going to repeat them in this post as I'm sure we all know what the standard ones are. It annoys me when characters are ..."I encountered this in an Ellora's Cave IR I read about a year ago. The AA heroine wasn't so concerned about the white guy's tools, just if he can use it as well as a black guy can. Crazy. And I'm supposed to spend my money on this?
Also another thing I can't stand is the constant dwelling on AA hair. Fine if you're in awe of AA hair the first time you're in close proximity to it, but after a while get over it. It's just hair, not something from outer space.
I'd love to support IR more, but I have absolutely no interest in condoning mediocrity. Until the quality of work is improved, my money is staying in the bank or I spend it on other non-IR books that don't get into all the nonsense.
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Danielle, I agree with you about the "not approving interracial dating" as being beaten to death.
Every parents, family and friends aren't against interracial dating.
I would like to read more interracial stories. Mainly bw/wm stories, where race doesn't matter.
Let the story be a regular story. Leave racism out of it.
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Aw man, if only it wasn't about angels I would totally be all over it! I'll check out her Psy series in the mean time. :-)
Thanks NU!
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I finished Dark Possession, and I loved it. I felt that a lot of love went into writing MaryAnn. She's not the slightest bit stereotypical. Definit..."
See? Enough to go around for everyone! Lol
I want to read Dark Posession now from all the goodies I'm hearing. Do I have to start from the beginning in this series or is it okay to hop around and not be lost?
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I'd love to support IR more, but I have absolutely no interest in condoning mediocrity. Until the quality of work is improved, my money is staying in the bank or I spend it on other non-IR books that don't get into all the nonsense.
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You said it, Danielle! I'm finding myself become more selective with the types of IR I'm buying. So sad because I really want to dive into more goodies. But at least it'll give me a chance to catch up on my backlist of IRs I collected way back when but haven't had a chance to read.
Case in point, I'm reading this time travel IR book called Love Last Forever where the hero time travels to the heroine and I'm loving it. Sweet love story and I just want to reach in and grab the hero for myself lol. Plus the heroine is strong but now overbearing. I can't wait to see what happens in this story.
I so agree with you guys. I wish we can have more IR books where the couple is diverse but they don't make a big dealio about it. They're just people falling in love and having adventures throughout time (and space hehe). A genuine love story between two people who appreciate the beauty in one another.
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I finished Dark Possession, and I loved it. I felt that a lot of love went into writing MaryAnn. She's not the sl..."
You could read it, but there will be some stuff you're not familiar with.
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I certainly don't want to have it be the focus of the book, but if done well and tastefully, I want it observed. There are natural differences between us, and I'd like them cherished along with the personality and character of the love interest in the story.
Currently I'm reading Shannon McKenna's McCloud series, and the men in these books focus quite a bit on the body parts and hair of their partners - and I like it.. I like that visual, and the interest it shows he has of her. So I'd like it if it was naturally and tastefully done in an IR book as well.
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Currently I'm reading Shannon McKenna's McCloud series, and the men in these books focus quite a bit on the body parts and hair of their partners - and I like it.. I like that visual, and the interest it shows he has of her. So I'd like it if it was naturally and tastefully done in an IR book as well."
As an interracial writer, I would never have my white hero focus on my black heroine's body parts and hair.
To me, all women have the same body parts and hair. It might be different in texture, but it's still hair.
Maybe it's just me, but in every race, you will find people with fine hair, coarse hair and even what people call nappy hair.
I wonder why the white man would be curious about the black's woman hair. Should she be curious about his?
Bekah, please don't think that I am knocking your taste in books, because I am not.
I am just speaking for myself.
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But, "Ooh, I thought all White guys had small penises. But yours is freakishly large!" or "I like Black chicks because they have big booties," that's objectification.
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I think of course. It's only natural. And I find it attractive. Not if you beat it like a dead horse, but it's natural - this is your lover - and as your lover, you spend those wonderful moments inspecting every inch of their body - which includes hair...so yea it comes up. The book I'm reading now, the woman actually paid a huge amount of attention to the guy's hair, and it was really yummy.
In an ir book, i think it's part of the romance. I loved the way it was done in Something New. Not dwelt on, but acknowledged. Part of the wonderful aspect of an interracial romance, for me, is acknowledging those differences. Yes, we all have hair, and of every texture, but maybe one of the many reasons that i love YOU is because it's pin straight or nappy - and I damn well want to tell you that.
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Yes, Danielle - I don't want that - that is not romantic - or love. In my opinion at least its not.
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I hear you about the hair. I don't like wearing mine down.
Rae wrote: "new_user wrote: "LOL, Rae! I think you would like her! She also has an angel series that's darker and more UF-like in that the relationship is not tied up in one book, so you might like that one be..."Np, Rae. :)
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