What Turns You OFF When Reading an Interracial Romance? Showing 451-500 of 1,097

[Shiree]

Well I can proudly say I write books with explicit sex but it has romance and a story with a point. I like to think when people are reading my books they are being educated too, so I tried to include reference of my research. It's why it takes me a long time to write new books and why my books are usually 250 pages and up.

[CaliGirlRae, Mod Squad]

TheFountainPenDiva wrote: "I still believe that for black women, writing erotic romance/erotica is liberating. In real life our sexuality is owned and defined by everyone BUT us. In these books, we're allowed to get our freak on without having something negative attached to it. It's like being given a million dollars and let loose inside of a Jimmy Choo shoe boutique, lol. And those who think IR books are nothing but erotic are just looking for an excuse not to read IR anyway. They seem to give a free pass to the tons of mainstream erotic romance out there. "

I don't necessarily agree with this being across the board for all black women. Some have varying interest in what they want shown or what they want to be exposed to. I don't think it should considered be an all or nothing kind of deal (i.e. either you're a sexually liberated black woman or you let everyone but you 'own your sexuality'). That leaves out a lot of in-between where black women are definitely comfortable with their sexuality but want it only within the confines of marriage or as a 'fade to black' kind of scenario. That's why it's so cool to have the options to choose. I would love to see IR romance get like mainstream romance where you can choose whether you want clean/sweet contemporary reads or more than that or sci-fi or fantasy or whatever.

I also don't agree that folks who think IR are nothing but erotic books are looking for an excuse not to read it because I've heard from many readers who have tried it and loved the genre upon discovering it but get turned off because the hardcore stuff is all they find. We have to remember that most readers aren't part of this community or maybe any reading community online so they don't know what books are out there besides what they happen to find on Amazon. And we have to consider what type of books is usually selling at the top. Even the labels can confuse the casual reader perusing for new releases. I imagine a lot of readers like this are from the new wave of digital readers just discovering that IR is an actual genre with women who look like them. What a wonderful thought! It'd be great to showcase a spectrum of black woman no matter what they are looking for in IR rather than what is just glutting the market at the time that is popular.

Just my thoughts.

[TinaNoir]

This oversaturation of sex in romance books is not just happening in IR. Practically every subgenre is being "sexed up" to feed the market. The genie is out of the proverbial bottle, so to speak.

Oh, no doubt. The thing with mainstream, though, is that there is enough variety and a breadth of offerings to off-set the oversaturation of sex so that you don't have to feel as if your options are limited. Or that every 4 out of 5 books you pick up is going to have a sex scene in the first five pages.

It is a sheer numbers game. IR subgenre is tiny comparatively speaking and simply doesn't have the deep bench to absorb what feels like an over-reliance on sex.

Personally, my ideal romance incorporates great, smoking hot sex scenes in the story. But even I get exasperated when confronted with book after book after book (most of them clocking in on average of 150 pages or less) where so much page space is given over to what feels like gratuitous sex scenes. That does not leave a lot of page space left for plot, character, story or romantic development.

[Savannah- Quad Motherin' Book Readin' Diva]

Im a reader that doesnt think romance and raunch have to be mutually exlusive. I also agree with Tina- its a numbers game. When you are fishing in a pond you're gonna get overwhelmed if there are five thousand catfish. A river or ocean? Not so much.

The weight thing has. een addressed to my satisfaction at this point in IR. Im no longer surprised by size either way. Skin descriptions irk me in that you can have being described as "ebony" in one scene and read that she "flushed prettily" five pages later. I blame ignorance witb stuff like that. Authors tossing around words with no idea what they truly mean, unfortunately. "Milk chocolate" yet she turns red in anger. I'm a big Hershey fan and I happen to be about the same color. My ass ain't ever in life had a VISIBLE blush on my face. lol Sure everyone can do it, but it can't be seen on all of us. Inconsistencies like that drive me nuts. A thesaurus is everybody's friend. There are a ton of ways to describe color.

[Shiree]

I think when it comes to blushing it's how you write
it. When you say she flushed preetily just because you can't see it don't mean she can't feel it and get a sheepish grin on her face that may be considered preety. I think we hen peck stuff to death and the only reason that happens is the stories aren't interesting enough to forgive the small stuff the small stuff nags you through the entire book unless the story is engaging.

[TinaNoir]

Shiree wrote: "I think when it comes to blushing it's how you write
it. When you say she flushed preetily just because you can't see it don't mean she can't feel it"

I agree that it is how you write it. And from whose perspective the scene is being written. If it is 3rd person and the other person notices a dark brown skinned woman flushing, then that doesn't work for me.

If however it is 1st person or even 3rd person from the dark brown skinned woman's perspective and she 'feels her face get hot with a flush' then that works.

But you are right, if the story is absorbing you tend to let little things go. It is when you aren't engaged that you start to nick at the little things.

[Shiree]

"If however it is 1st person or even 3rd person from the dark brown skinned woman's perspective and she 'feels her face get hot with a flush' then that works."

Sometimes blushing is used as metaphor for youth, or inexperience of the character. In the book I'm currently writing the girl is the youngest I ever written so she blushes more and easily thoughtout the beginning of the book as a sign of her inexperience. As she become more jaded by her experiences it's no longer blush worthy.

With women of color I use the term "ruddy" if I want to get disctiptive, sometimes red, but I found no matter how dark a person is if you know the signs you know when they are blushing. The skin on your face, ears, neck, and or shoulders darken when you're embarrassed, the lighter you are the more you see the red undertone, not because a blush is red but because it is "heat" and heat cause a flushness that darkens the skin.

So even the darkest of darkest people you can tell they are blushing, their face grows darker ruddy with a glow, the blackest of face takes on red undertones and become shiny. It happens when people lie too. Harder to tell in habitual liars because for the moment they lie it becomes truth in their minds and they have no remorse about it.

You will find it less irritating when you in your mind change the blush scenes into metaphorically the author is showing you the character inexperience in getting the compliment; seeing the nudity; in being called out for her mistakes; closely scrutinized. You get the picture.

[The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears]

@CaliGirlRae: I'm not saying it's an "all or nothing" game when it comes to black women reading/writing erotic romance/erotica. I just look at it from a more feminist perspective. That, at least in a fictional world, black women have the CHOICE to go sexy and can do so without all the real life baggage we've been saddled with. It's a way of reclaiming what's healthy and natural.

I do agree that having more choices as to the level of explicitness is important, and just like with the color/hair or the type of character issues, variety is what will keep this genre vibrant. Just like with paranormal, there gets to be a burnout when damn near everything starts sounding the same. Not every reader wants to go behind the green door, lol. Me, I like a healthy dose of story and characters to go with my smexin' *grin* And, it does help if authors have a general idea about how the human body having sex works. Some positions I've read about are only possible if one has been practicing yoga for twenty years or were born a human pretzel, lol.

My only concern is the use of words like "clean" or "sweet". There's a certain value judgment attached to those descriptions that I'm not personally comfortable with. I realize that's not the intent, but the subtext is there. I'm thinking maybe "non-erotic" or something less frought with negative meaning.

Love this convo everyone.

[CaliGirlRae, Mod Squad]

No worries TFPD. :-) I was just putting it out there in case it was read as such by anyone who may be passing by.

[Paganalexandria]

I really don't have much to add to this conversation, but am loving reading everything everyone is saying, and all the different viewpoints being explored. The one thing I love about this group in particular is how although there are many opinions about sensitive issues, everything stays respectful, fun, and unafraid to go deep. Please keep it coming.

[Michelle, Mod with the Bod]

TheFountainPenDiva wrote: Some positions I've read about are only possible if one has been practicing yoga for twenty years or were born a human pretzel, lol.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!

[The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears]

The one thing I've noticed over the years about us IR readers is that we may kvetch, criticize, whine and have the occasional WTF moments, but we're also loyal to the authors and our fellow readers. But it's also great that we "get" each other. We're not always stuck "womansplaining" our opinions. I've been on threads where more time is wasted on the "tone" of conversations rather than the ideas being expressed. That happens in feminist blogs a lot, especially when dealing with intersectional feminism.

I love this genre. I want others to love it. The issues I bring up are not because of being an armchair critic, but because IR is so personal. That finally we get to be the heroines worth fighting for and who get the HEA.

[Elise-Pinterest+Goodreads=The Perfect Book Boyfriend]

Shiree wrote: "This is the reason when you find an author that write the type of books you like you need to let them know and help promote them. If an author don't feel like she's being read, talked about or sal..."


I completely agree. I have spoken to at least 2 white authors who both stated that the stories they wrote that had interracial story lines were generally the lowest in sales. For one I had to reply that her take on how the heroine spoke or behaved may have been the cause. Her heroine was very insecure, and her body language was quite cliche (teeth sucking, eye rolling). I suggested that she first write a great story, and then make the heroine black. Quite simple (at least I thought so, but obviously not, since we don't have a ton). Because in the end that's is what everyone wants to read, a really good story. Another author said she didn't think she could write "urban" enough to be convincing. Once again, I suggested, write a great story. Just as not all white characters are the same, not all black woman are "urban". Still waiting to see improvements and/or story lines from these authors.

[Shiree]

Elise-banned from infomercials and ebay wrote: "Shiree wrote: "This is the reason when you find an author that write the type of books you like you need to let them know and help promote them. If an author don't feel like she's being read, talk..."

Tell them to write a white woman with brown skin. For the most part we aren't different as women we want the same love, needs, family ect that they do. It may have been difficult to write from the view point in the 50's but these days we have the same opportunities opened to us such as education and stuff. You will probably never see a Black congress woman rolling her eyes and sucking her teeth. Yes, even we know how to behave in the custom to which our environments and custom delegates.

[Elise-Pinterest+Goodreads=The Perfect Book Boyfriend]

Shiree wrote: "Elise-banned from infomercials and ebay wrote: "Shiree wrote: "This is the reason when you find an author that write the type of books you like you need to let them know and help promote them. If ..."


Amen!! Sometimes I wished there was a "like' button on GR like there is on Facebook--LOL

[TinaNoir]

Elise-banned from infomercials and ebay wrote: "Her heroine was very insecure, and her body language was quite cliche (teeth sucking, eye rolling).... Another author said she didn't think she could write "urban" enough to be convincing. "

I am gonna go out on a limb here and say that maybe, if this is their frame of reference, then they probably shouldn't be writing WOC? Just a thought.

TheFountainPenDiva wrote:"The one thing I've noticed over the years about us IR readers is that we may kvetch, criticize, whine and have the occasional WTF moments, but we're also loyal to the authors and our fellow readers.

This is the truth! If we didn't care we wouldn't be so invested in seeing the genre grow and prosper. We'd simply abandon.

[Emotonal]

CaliGirlRae wrote: "Emotonal wrote: "I don't enjoy sexually explicit stories, I would really enjoy some romance in my romance books, just because a couple is having raunchy sex, doesn't mean they're in love.

I get re..."

Thanks Rae, You already know you're one of my favorite authors if not my number favorite, and I agree with what a member here wrote, if you love a author shout their names through the roof tops to promote them and I plan on doing just that.

there is allot of readers like me who wants more romance then sex in their books, so I'm looking into starting a site that tells them where and what author they can find sweet to sensual IR romances.

That's right lady, I'm about to shout, yours and other authors I love,names through the roof top.

As a black woman I've never felt as though my sexuality is expressed by others, I've always felt in control of that. I sure don't need a book to show that as a woman and a black woman to show I'm sexually liberated and can get my freak on like anyone else.

I kind of always felt like a voyeur if I mistakenly start reading a book that has no warning of it's explicit content. Sex is a private moment between a couple, though some enjoy otherwise, whether fictional or real and i feel I have no business there

I'd cheer louder if it's shown that we also have a mind, a heart and a voice and know how to use all three when it's called for.

We all have our own tastes and that's great, but I guess our right to sexual being fought isn't as important to me as the women who fought for our right to vote, equal pay etc. Or for our freedom.

It's not an excuse when the people I know refuse to waste time coming on here looking for new authors, they actually like most of the same authors I do, though they try to make me try others for them, I refuse, but when it's the same old thing just a different story, why bother?

I do find find that I can find more none sexually explicit books in an ordinary romance books than I do IR. I can see why Harlequin is still popular today.

These are just my opinions, no offense intended and please excuse my bad grammar.

[The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears]

Tina wrote: "I am gonna go out on a limb here and say that maybe, if this is their frame of reference, then they probably shouldn't be writing WOC? Just a thought..."

I have to agree with this Tina, and it says a LOT about their mindset if they think all black women behave a certain way. I mean, how many PoC do they know personally? Do they work with PoC or interact in some fashion on a daily basis? Hell, every Starbucks I go to has a multiethnic/multi-gendered barista staff and that's normal for me. Frankly, these authors can save me the headache and the urge to throw my Kindle against the wall by not bringing their small-mindedness to the written word. I'm not going to pay good money to be insulted by stereotypes. Interesting how PoC authors seldom if ever have a problem crafting multifaceted white characters.

[Danielle The Book Huntress , Sees Love in All Colors]

I just don't buy it when an author says they can't write a black character. I hate to say it, but if you really feel that way, then you're better off not trying, because deep down, you have some prejudiced/biased views about black people you're not dealing with. Black people don't all come in the same shapes and sizes, no more than white people.

I can totally understand if you're hesitant to write about a specific culture, say, Navaho, if you have no exposure to it, or research. But black people for the most part, share the American culture where it's not as much of an issue to have a character who is black that prejudiced people make it out to seem.

[Elise-Pinterest+Goodreads=The Perfect Book Boyfriend]

While I respect a sexy erotic story, the sex has become tedious. I find myself skipping the sex many times to get back to the story, however, if I know that this is an erotic novel, then I know to expect it. It's not just in IR, but everywhere (especially PNR).

[Elise-Pinterest+Goodreads=The Perfect Book Boyfriend]

I will say it again....I want a "like" button here just like on FB (I want to Amen some comments without having to reply to it. Ugh!!)

[Kim]

Elise-banned from infomercials and ebay wrote: "While I respect a sexy erotic story, the sex has become tedious. I find myself skipping the sex many times to get back to the story, however, if I know that this is an erotic novel, then I know to..."

I find myself doing the same. Especially when it begins to feel like there is more sex than plot or character development. That is enough to make me stop reading a book.

[Savannah- Quad Motherin' Book Readin' Diva]

Shiree- respectful diaagreement on the blush thing. If they want to convey "sheepish" then thats what they need to describe. Flushed is flushed.

I dont think its nit picking to hold IR to the same standard as I do mainstream. If ANY author writes mess that makes no sense, Im going to be taking stars away because it takes away from my ultimate enjoyment as a reader. I do try to be reasonable and differentiate between personal pet peeves and real usage mistakes but some crap is just plain wrong. If a word doesnt make sense whee ts being used? I'm crying foul. I've said it before but it bears repeating- we IR fans have been so thirsty to read books featuring womaen of color, we have become FAR too tolerant. Its bred a crop of self publihed nonsense that overshadows the gems. Where is the incentive for better editing and research if we are constantly overlooking the basics? Not me. No more.

[The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears]

Elise-banned from infomercials and ebay wrote: "While I respect a sexy erotic story, the sex has become tedious. I find myself skipping the sex many times to get back to the story, however, if I know that this is an erotic novel, then I know to..."

Here here!

I like me some hot smexin' as well, but if I'm laughing about the chicka-bow-wow bad porno or cringing at the idea of a "volcanic p*ssy", that defeats the purpose of the book being erotic. I don't mind sexy/dirty talk, but if the hero starts sounding like Ron Jeremy (lol), no thanks.

[Savannah- Quad Motherin' Book Readin' Diva]

TheFountainPenDiva wrote: "Elise-banned from infomercials and ebay wrote: "While I respect a sexy erotic story, the sex has become tedious. I find myself skipping the sex many times to get back to the story, however, if I k..."

One series inparticular comes to mind, ladies. Those Romancing the __ books and the COMPLETE domination of the word "pound" in every sex scene. I wa just too through reading that ish.

[TinaNoir]

Savannah~Quad-motherin'-book readin' diva wrote: " I dont think its nit picking to hold IR to the same standard as I do mainstream. If ANY author writes mess that makes no sense, Im going to be taking stars away because it takes away from my ultimate enjoyment as a reader. I do try to be reasonable and differentiate between personal pet peeves and real usage mistakes but some crap is just plain wrong."

I agree so much here. Here's the thing. With the recent hand-wringing over white writers writing diverse characters, with the twitter activism of #weneeddiversebooks, with the recent Time article on IR romances, the genre is on the cusp of being 'discovered'. Currently it is still fairly niche and still feels intimately 'our' thing in some weird way. But the wider public gaze is starting to turn its' way.

If anyone considers the observations and complaints in this thread to be nit-picky or harsh, it will be nothing compared to when the full glare of mainstream gaze really lights on the genre.

Romance as a whole is considered the red-headed step-child when it comes to books and publishing. But it is a billion dollar step-child. Mainstream romance, on the whole, can shrug off criticism and scorn for the product because for the most part, the trad published part of the industry can shield the indie-pubbed part of it due to that billion dollar muscle. And it has a lot of literate, well-funded bloggers and cheerleaders writing tons of think pieces and rebuttals on it's behalf.

But IR doesn't have any of those advantages. Even the mainstream romance community can't be bothered to embrace IR in the way that makes it feel inclusive in the larger romance community. Like anything or anyone who is 'othered' you have to do twice as well to be considered just as good.

My biggest concern is that when that mainstream glare fully turns onto IR, that the dashed-off mostly erotica titles full of poor grammar and terrible editing will become the ones that get noticed and by default become representative of the sub-genre.

This is why I agree with Savannah here. We need to continue to write thoughtful reviews that are both informative and critical. We need to be vocal about what works and what doesn't work. We need to continue to push for variety and quality. We need to encourage different voices that can grow the genre. And we need to praise and push forward those authors who are perfecting the craft and writing to high standards.

[Shiree]

Savannah~Quad-motherin'-book readin' diva wrote: " I dont think its nit picking to hold IR to the same standard as I do mainstream.'

I guess my point is I don't see Caucasion women having these issues with their mainstream books. They aren't debating skin color of if the woman is lily white or tanned, or the texture of her hair being naturally straight or if she has a perm, the color of her eyes...ect...they discuss themes, subject matter, heck the story itself was it good. It infuriates me that a person review a book that I'm interested in reading and all I get is a long review of physical attributes the reader had a problem with, but a brief statement of "the story was alright, but..." or "It was a great book, however..." and I'm thinking okay why was it a good book, what was the plot, ect...this is why called alot of the other stuff nic pickin'.

[The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears]

Love ya lots Shiree, but the apparent colorism in IR to me is not "nit-picking". And there were some readers who were not thrilled with Suzanne Brockmann's depiction of Alyssa Locke and Christine Feehan's Mary Ann, so this conversation isn't limited to small/indie published works. And we have actually discussed themes, subjects, etc. Everyone here pretty much knows that I'm all about seeing more alt-subcultures depicted in IR books, lol.

My contention is this: This is a genre created and sustained by mostly black women. So why isn't it more inclusive or feel that way? Why does there seem to be a preference (especially from some self-pubbed authors) for Halle/Beyonce-types? I just came across an IR on Amazon in which the so-called "ugly duckling" heroine is described as having "chocolate colored skin and hazel eyes." Then you get a look at the cover (eek) and the subtext can't be any more out there. Oh, she's also a size 18, but she's a Harvard graduate (as if that last negates the rest of the fail). Would it be so hard to write a black heroine with bantu knots or dreds who actually LOVES her dark skin and walks like a queen?

Yes, I'll still support the IR genre because it's sorely needed. But there have been times, especially recently, that I feel we've taken several steps in the wrong direction. We could be the banner for intra-diversity, show mainstream romance how to get it right. Moreover, we could do so much in showcasing our beautiful variety.

[Shiree]

I respect all your opinions I just see it more often then not and I don't mind that being part of the problem but if anyone can take the time to point out thost things how about taking the time to talk about the story itself. I'm not saying all of you do this but entire blogs have been dedicate to these issues but it's not helping the author to focus on also giving us good stories. They will put all their future efforts and energy to make sure the character is politically pleasing to the eye. I think the entire reason alot of Black authors "White up" the character in their books honestly is because when you do have a diverse character the books don't sell as well and you have complaints about the character. My character in The Prince and the Panther. Was dark, bald except for a ponytail, lean, athletic and dominant. Should have read some of the emails I got about her appearance. I was like I'm sorry but that is who she is I listen to my characters, so how did you enjoy the story itself? I get an answer back, "well, I couldn't get into the book because I couldn't get past how she looked. So no, I don't get that. I put alot into my books and when the entire point is missed because of a characters being to attractive or not attractive enough which is the individual readers bias judgment on what they considered beautiful, it irritates me is all I'm saying.

Maybe they are going through it being White and writing White characters I wouldn't know I can't walk in those shoes as an author, I just know when I read the discussion boards on goodreads, I notice the character appearance isn't as important in the discussion of the actual story unless the cover characters look nothing like the book character description on the noe IR boards.

[Emotonal]

I also wish there was a like button here, because there is so many of you that has brought up other things I have had issues with but you have said it so much more eloquently than I ever could.

I truly have developed so much respect for this site and it's members,no one attacks anyone for their different views.

I remember following a similar conversation on Amazon and the people that started that conversation was attacked by a member and an author,Rae and Arch was involved with that conversation, they were replying to a members request for ideas on non-erotic IR books, it was them and few others being attacked by this author and member. I was so shocked that an innocent conversation like that could bring such an angry response from a professional writer who should be able to accept criticism and different points of view that I made up my mind then and there that I will never buy one of that author's works.

When I found out Rae was an author I went about finding her books because I was so impressed with the way she handled her self and have been a fan ever since.

Anyway,I had to check to see if I was really on Amazon because for a minute I thought I stumbled onto a school yard fight.

I am truly proud to be a member of this group. You ladies are awesome.

[Indigo.plume]

TheFountainPenDiva wrote: "Love ya lots Shiree, but the apparent colorism in IR to me is not "nit-picking". And there were some readers who were not thrilled with Suzanne Brockmann's depiction of Alyssa Locke and Christine F..."

I agree that starting discussions on colorism is not nit picking (or pole vaulting over rat turds as my military aunt would say). I also agree that we should focus just as many discussions on the quality of the plot and characters in our little budding genre. At this point, demanding better form and content should be the focus. Once I started reading IR romance books, I was frankly shocked at the quality of the writing. Thin plots, uninteresting heroes and heroines, and pointless unrealistic sex scenes keep me cringing. It wasn't until I started reading criticisms from people who are more familiar with the genre that I realized colorism was even a problem. From the perspective of a former outsider and newbie (as a reader not a writer), the problem with character and plot is the issue that will cause this genre to sink or swim once the glare of the larger spotlight shines on it.

[The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears]

Shiree wrote: "I respect all your opinions I just see it more often then not and I don't mind that being part of the problem but if anyone can take the time to point out thost things how about taking the time to ..."

Those comments about Zeundi say lot more about the readers than it does about YOU as the author. If I were going to have any issues with The Prince and the Panther, they might have stemmed from my being an Elizabethan re-enactor, which you know, lol. I'm a huge stickler for language and mores (which is why many modern Regencies/Medievals fail). I do need to re-read that by the way *grin*. Not to mention, your book was a huge history lesson as well. That black people were indeed a part of Elizabethan England, and not just as slaves. Most people's experience with that period are through movies like 'Elizabeth', 'Shakespeare in Love' or through a series like 'The Tudors'. All of which were great (if not fully accurate) but were completely whitewashed. So my dear, you definitely threw readers for a loop that they simply were not ready for. Hence they blamed their ignorance and their lack of comfort on your heroine. Of course, they'll never admit that.

But that kind of negative reaction to a dark-skinned heroine is precisely WHY this genre needs to expand its intra-diversity. Those readers, bless their little hearts, have internalized not just societal standards of beauty (which are overwhelmingly Eurocentric) but also internalized self-hatred. That the only way they could ever imagine a dark-skinned and bald female as protagonist is when she's a long-suffering victim (like Precious from Push or Pecola from The Bluest Eye). Dark-skinned girls do not, in our society, get the hunky hero. She gets abused, she's the skanky gold-digger, she's the hood rat.

We as writers and readers have unprecedented power to change that mindset. IR is OUR genre. We created it. We support it. We are damn near fanatical about it, lol. When mainstream romance reviews/blogs ignore or trash the books we love, it's on and crackin'. We have the power to do what our society won't, which is to give EVERY BLACK WOMAN-from Mariah Carey fair to Lupita Nyong'o deep-the chance to be sexy, gorgeous, intelligent and the object of desire for men of other races. I want us to USE that power. Not only with characters, but the variety of stories we tell. IR doesn't have to follow the trends; we can SET the trends.

And now, The Fountain Pen Diva goes back to her book about Sasquatch *grin*.

[Emotonal]

"IR doesn't have to follow the trends, we can SET the trends."

That made me smile and cheer. Those words may seem small, but they pack such a punch.
In Fact I agree with everything you've just said,The Fountain Pen Diva. I wish I could be a eloquent.

[Lola]

What turns me off? Poor grammar (shows a lack of resources when it comes to editing). I completely understand when authors who are self-publishing don't have the funds to afford a good editor. But dictionaries, thesauri and sites like Grammarly are your best friends.

And historical inaccuracy. Waist-long corsets were not in wide use during the Regency era.

[TinaNoir]

Shiree wrote: "I guess my point is I don't see Caucasion women having these issues with their mainstream books. They aren't debating skin color of if the woman is lily white or tanned, or the texture of her hair being naturally straight or if she has a perm, the color of her eyes...ect...they discuss themes, subject matter, heck the story itself was it good. "

Colorism doesn't have the loaded meaning for whites as it does for non-whites, though. Sure white women will tan, but or the most part, tanning is cosmetic. It is no different than putting on mascara or lipstick. Hence it doesn't carry the same weight for them that colorism has for us.

I have seen discussions on weight and unrealistic notions beauty however come up over and over again on romance discussion boards, since heroine are disproportionately thin and beautiful.

I think the things we bring up in this particular thread fall under the category of generic genre-wide trends rather than book-to-book specific issues. However, when I trawl through actual book reviews, the reviews that are negative -- one and two stars -- overwhelmingly cite issues with character, plot, story or writing.

[[deleted user]]

There are clearly subjects many women of color face that white women do not. In one way I do see how in romance fiction that only includes white ppl, may not focus on colorism, I also notice it doesn't affect them in the way it affects people of color. I'm assuming anyone on this thread has dated interracially or in an interracial relationship, or seeking to, or just like the idea of it.

For those who have dated someone white, have you ever seen or heard being called pale versus tan, and it affect them greatly? I can't and won't speak for IR situations where the man(or woman, everybody's got their preference) isn't white. But I've been in a few, and while that can't count for an entire population of white folk, I've seen way more ppl of color fight the label "dark-skinned" if that someone is a measuring stick for your beauty, intelligence, skill level, confidence, personality or any other important trait most important about you.

I can't say that it's nit picking. Though I can understand why one would say that. We're not a post racial society yet, because if we were this thread wouldn't exist XD

[Savannah- Quad Motherin' Book Readin' Diva]

My criticism is always inclusive of storyline when appropriate. More often than not, if an author is making an oopsie with usage, there are also other issues that keep me from fully immersing myself in the tale. Little things amount to big things when its a red flag that someone hasn't done their research or isn't sticking to their own character outline *cough*dmitry'scloset*cough*. And yes, I use that book as an example of horrible execution at least once a month.LOL!Y'all know I hate it!

if they want their black heroine to blush, make her on the lighter side of caramel and have her blush away. I just get tired of the inconsistencies. Roberts never leaves me shaking my head and neither does Phillips or Brockmann. I already grade on a slight (unavoidable) curve just because alot of authors simply lack experience. Thats enough.

[Anino]

Savannah~Quad-motherin'-book readin' diva wrote: "Shiree- respectful diaagreement on the blush thing. If they want to convey "sheepish" then thats what they need to describe. Flushed is flushed.

I dont think its nit picking to hold IR to the sam..."

Amen, Amen!

[Shiree]

I never said women having an issue with shade of a black woman's skin in a book was nit picking which I keep seeing over and over again. This is a continous gripe among people of color in real life, which personally it's a part of the slave mentality we keep passing from generation to generation that we could make an effort not to do it any more.

What I did say was the fact an author writing a darker skinned woman blushed was. Then I clarified maybe it's how the blushed is used within the scene. Just because you can't see it as clearly doesn't mean she is incapable of blushing. As I explaind if it is written from her POV you can still have her blush and write about the heat spreading across her face, ears, neck and shoulders.

Now to me and I said to me, not speaking for every Black woman that read IR books, when you review a book and most of your complaint is an issue with the character's appearance it does not help me much as an author and the future books I write.

I don't know how other writers mind works but my Characters feel like real people to me and when the characterization such as appearance comes to play it just is what it is.

I had an opportunity when I first started writing in my 20's to have my first Historical which I still haven't published, published by Zebra that was the place to be back in the 80's. However, they loved the story but on the list of edits I needed to to resubmit making my characters look a particular way if you know what I mean was one of the request. To be honest, I tried to make then Caucasion even though bouth of them were mixed heritage Islander/White I couldn't do it. It nagged the heck out of me, I told her the characters are who they are and I end up rewriting the entire book to suit the characters they wanted, however Alice Alfonsi is the name on my letter rejected it because it wasn't the story I written before.

Trust me, I don't write characters a certain way to piss off the readers who have a problem with it or those who want more darker, bald, natural, ect...it can go on and on characters. I write it because just like in the real world they are who they were since they popped in my head. When I write a book I feel as if I'm channeling someone who really lived this life. This is the way they looked. As good or bad as it maybe this is their story.

Have you ever read Clive Barker's Books of Blood: Volume One. Where the author begins by saying. "The dead have highways." This is what writing feel like to me. It feels as if I'm speaking for the dead, it's exhausting and draining and feels personal when it being torn apart. Sort of like overhearing someone call your baby ugly.

So when you do feel the need to pick a book a part, keep that in mind that with some writers it's not as planned, lightly written or premeditated as it may read. When Gail proofs my books she says she can tell when I get in that "channel zone" I told her about because I make more mistakes in that scene or chapter. That's because it's playin out in my head like a movie and I'm trying to keep up, typing what I see and hear and I'm not thinking grammer or anything else I just vomit it out of me and I'm releived. This is why I do have others read my work, I have a hard time rereading what I write objectively. My mind fills in the mistakes and I just don't see it no matter how many times I reread it.

What about the other writers? How is the writing process for you? How do you feel as you write? I know most of the time I feel as if I'm crazy or boarderline demented. lol

[Savannah- Quad Motherin' Book Readin' Diva]

I get that it can feel extremely personal to have omething you create criticized. Thats why so many ladies here write but never let anyone read lol. Ultimately its like anything else meant for public consumption in that you are opening yourself up to ridicule of your "baby". That just is what it is.

I think everyone is pretty much in agreement about color is a min books. Especially if you grew up black in America. So really its all hash and rehash.

For the record the blush thing is still bullshit in the way it was used in the book that I'm talking about. I can understand and appreciate a line something that goes like "she felt her skin flush" or "she felt the heat rush to her face and was happy that her complexion didn't showcase her embarrassment". Absolutely we all blush. No disagreement on that. But the way it was used in this book was nonsense and nonsense deserves to be put on display haha! Especially if I pay good money to read it.

[Shiree]

Savannah~Quad-motherin'-book readin' diva wrote: "I get that it can feel extremely personal to have omething you create criticized. Thats why so many ladies here write but never let anyone read lol. Ultimately its like anything else meant for publ..."

I respect and will take in future consideration what you said about blushing, being an empath it has been all about feelings for me when I speak with people. We have ever shade of African American in my family and I could have sworn I saw when even the darkest of dark relative blush over something I teased or said. Maybe I felt it and not really saw it.

Thank you for your input. I can take constructive critiques, what I can't take is the personal attacts I have seen or read. One woman on Amazon turned one of my books into her personal comedy act. I swore she must have thought she was at the Apollo. LMAO!

[[deleted user]]

Since I just joined in, I don't get the older comments from my phone app without having to start from beginning. So hope no one offends easily on this thread XD wasn't insinuating anything this thread hasn't already said.

But I think the future of writing will force writers to learn to show vs tell. Typically during a first draft(shit a 2nd through 4th draft too) I will write in a telling way. When I'm more confident where I'd like something to go, I start researching how to convey something without telling it taking the easy way out. I admit it's frustrating. Sometimes I fear it even bumps up my word count. But I'm glad I follow these threads because after a lot of consideration, I'm considering a different selection for a first published title from my co-author and I.

While I love a character in a YA novel I planned to release, she doesn't have natural hair :p probably overthinking it, but another idea seems like it may or may not fit better of the needs of the audience I'd love to market to first, which is obviously all of you ;p winking at fountain pen diva

[The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears]

Something we should bear in mind when it comes to better representation of intra-diversity:

http://www.thewire.com/culture/2014/0...

[Shiree]

TheFountainPenDiva wrote: "Something we should bear in mind when it comes to better representation of intra-diversity:

http://www.thewire.com/culture/2014/0..."

They can add the Black women that aren't college education to that too. No one need a degree to enjoy a good read. That is an interesting article. Need to send it to the big name publishers and Romantic Times.

[The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears]

@Shiree: Absolutely. However, this really shouldn't surprise anyone. Black women have ALWAYS been readers. Terry McMillan's fanbase (long before Hollywood figured it out) was huge. I remember going to a beauty salon and women were recommending and sharing dog-eared copies of her books.

And we are the more reliable book buying customers since black women's tastes in books are so varied. We're not like white women readers who tend to limit themselves in regards to character makeup. Most of us started our love affair with romance/other genre fiction reading books by white authors (and we still read them). If I was a big New York publisher, I'd be doing everything I could to grab and keep this demographic, since we're only growing. Not only black, but latino and asian women too. Diversity is good business sense.

[Paganalexandria]

TheFountainPenDiva wrote: "@Shiree: Absolutely. However, this really shouldn't surprise anyone. Black women have ALWAYS been readers. Terry McMillan's fanbase (long before Hollywood figured it out) was huge. I remember going..."

TheFountainPenDiva wrote: "@Shiree: Absolutely. However, this really shouldn't surprise anyone. Black women have ALWAYS been readers. Terry McMillan's fanbase (long before Hollywood figured it out) was huge. I remember going..."

FPD, In the nineties I worked in Black Bookstore and can attest to the passion, and faithfulness of black readers. Though that job paid crap, it was one my favorite work experiences, and it did my soul good to know people will pay a little more to support what they believe in.

[[deleted user]]

Seriously. In the past few days, I've picked up a few books all by black authors. Every single heroine was mixed race. I love my mixed race sistas, but what the hell is up with this trope of giving black women what's considered "good hair" but the stereotypical body of a black woman? I'm really trying here...I want to support black authors, but if the only definition of an attractive black woman is one who I'd just black enough to have a tan, and obviously a nicki Minaj behind, but non black enough to have long waist length hair, that's naturally straight? I'm getting bored. I'm not a fan of giving only non black authors my money, but they're writing me more than we are!

[Savannah- Quad Motherin' Book Readin' Diva]

Guinevere, ICAM.
Its to the point where I am getting prone to DNF as soon as I read the physical description or pass over a book because the synopsis tells me the same thing.

Maybe this is the same heroine in every book and this ho just gets around(?)

[Kim]

I never focus too much on hair type when I write because I don't think it's important. It's one of the reasons I don't give many details on characters' appearances when I write because I've learned from Hemingway that readers will envision the character as they want if you focus less on how the character actually looks.

For me, the focus is the story or the characterisation. What the character looks like is less important than who the character is as a person.

[Savannah- Quad Motherin' Book Readin' Diva]

I can agree that less is more. However it does bug me when I get absolutely no description at all other than something extremely vague. Give me a body type. Give me a skin tone. Give me even a hairstyle although I do not need to know if it blows in the breeze. I don't even need to know what color it is but if the chick has a bob, go ahead let me know.