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message 1: by RandomAnthony (new)

RandomAnthony | 14536 comments In honor of the movie coming out next week (I'm going opening weekend), let us discuss Lewis Carroll...

I love, love, love Alice in Wonderland. That book had a huge influence on me...in fact, I think reading Alice was a formative event in my life. I loved the sense of possibility inherent in the storyline...so don't fuck it up, Mr. Burton:)

I'm not as big of a fan of his other work, honestly. But I have a room of Alice in Wonderland posters at home, and I re-read the annotated edition about once a year.

Thoughts on Lewis Carroll?


message 2: by Rachel (new)

Rachel | 1107 comments I'm more interested in watching J. Depp than anything...

But, Lewis Carroll writes in the most interesting way! I particularly like the idea about how we are the dreams of someone else, and if ever they wake up, we will cease to exist. And there was this riddle about a crow, to which the answer is nothing that I can't quite remember...


message 3: by Félix (new)

Félix (habitseven) Rachel wrote: "I'm more interested in watching J. Depp than anything..."

But why?


message 4: by Mandy (new)

Mandy (mandypants) I love Alice in Wonderland and Carroll's logic that isn't really logical, but is. It's just absolutely perfect. I have the coolest artist signed print of the chimney scene. I'm kicking myself for not having bought more when I was in Ireland. I even love the original Disney cartoon. Love, love, love.

I agree completely with RA's assessment of Burton. Especially the don't screw it up part. At the very least, it will be some amazing eye candy.


message 5: by janine (new)

janine | 7715 comments i like both alice and through the looking glass so much i have an alice in wonderland t-shirt. it is one of my favorite to-the-library shirts.


Jackie "the Librarian" | 8993 comments I love Carroll, too. I love how Alice starts right off the bat with this:

ALICE was beginning to get very tired of sitting by her sister on the bank and of having nothing to do: once or twice she had peeped into the book her sister was reading, but it had no pictures or conversations in it, "and what is the use of a book," thought Alice, "without pictures or conversations?'

I often feel that way myself, fed up with books with too many words and not enough pictures. :)

I love the language of Jabberwocky, too. But I'm not sure how to say "slithy." Is the i long, or short?


message 7: by Kevin (new)

Kevin  (ksprink) | 11469 comments until i googled carroll i was unaware of his many achievements (inventor, mathematician, photographer) and also did not know about some of the controversies attached to him. i do know that jabberwocky is fun/weird in an silly/odd way and that i love the bluntness of dialogue in alice


message 8: by Sally, la reina (new)

Sally (mrsnolte) | 17319 comments Mod
I get him confused with C.S. Lewis.


message 9: by Misha (new)

Misha (ninthwanderer) I say slithy with a long i, but I don't know if that's correct.


message 10: by Jaime (new)

Jaime | 158 comments I just finished reading Alice and Through the Looking glass...

I had watched the made for TV movie all the time @ my grandmothers when I was younger but I dont believe that I had ever read them.

I as much as I really liked Alice in Wonderland...I didnt like Through the Looking Glass quite as much.

I am going to see the movie next Friday @ the Imax...I am pretty psyched for it.


message 11: by Jaime (new)

Jaime | 158 comments Oh...and in the edition of Looking-Glass that I have it says in the preface that you pronounce "slithy" as if it were the two words "sly, the"


message 12: by Misha (new)

Misha (ninthwanderer) One of the problems I run into with some children's books is I can't remember if I read them or have just seen the movie a gazillion times. Often, even when I have read the book, the movie is what sticks in my brain. I know at one point I owned Alice in Wonderland/Through the Looking Glass but the Disney animated movie is all I can remember. I just don't know if I read the book.


message 13: by Kevin (new)

Kevin  (ksprink) | 11469 comments Sally wrote: "I get him confused with C.S. Lewis."

i do too


message 14: by RandomAnthony (last edited Feb 26, 2010 01:05AM) (new)

RandomAnthony | 14536 comments Oh, I love this conversation.

My favorite part of Alice in Wonderland, I think, involves Alice's conversations with the animals both in and around the pool of tears. I love when she accidentally brings up her cat and the animals cough and make excuses for how they must be going. I also love the caucus race, where all the animals run in random directions to dry off and then ask who has won. And then they want prizes, so Alice gives them prizes, and then they say Alice should get a prize, so she more or less gives herself one.

Oh, and Jaime, I'm seeing the movie in Imax as well...can't wait...


message 15: by Rachel (new)

Rachel | 1107 comments Larry wrote: "Rachel wrote: "I'm more interested in watching J. Depp than anything..."

But why?"


Because he's one of the most versatile actors in this day and age! I want him to surprise me!


message 16: by Félix (new)

Félix (habitseven) Ah.


message 17: by Jaimie (new)

Jaimie (jez476) | 664 comments I've only read Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass and I love them both. I want to read them again in the next week or so. I can't wait for the movie but I don't like Depp's costume and makeup and I'm over Helena Bonham Carter having to be in every Tim Burton movie now. Other than that I'm sure it's going to be great.


message 18: by Misha (new)

Misha (ninthwanderer) This is kind of cool. Sci Fi Wire has the first film adaptation of Alice in Wonderland made in 1907 (although the YouTube credit says 1903 - no idea which is correct). It's from the British Film Institute archives and is pretty damaged, but it's interesting to see how such an early film handled the special effects involved in telling the story.

http://scifiwire.com/2010/02/see-the-...


message 19: by Rachel (new)

Rachel | 1107 comments Depps costume is somewhat...odd for a Lewis Carroll character. I pictured a lot of the things in the book with a grey tinge to them, madhatter included. Helena Bonham Carter has been insisting that her frequent casting isn't nepotism, but it's really hard to believe that all the other female actresses available don't suit any of Tim Burton's female lead.


Jackie "the Librarian" | 8993 comments I don't mind Burton casting Helena in all his movies. She matches his sensibilities.

Lots of directors have favorite actors and actresses they like to use. Scorsese has been using Leonardo di Caprio a lot lately, and Wes Anderson likes the Wilson brothers.

Sometimes they're even married to them, like Woody Allen and Diane Keaton. Or Woody Allen and Mia Farrow...


message 21: by Sally, la reina (new)

Sally (mrsnolte) | 17319 comments Mod
I don't mind either. I think she and Depp fit his style perfectly.


message 22: by Rachel (new)

Rachel | 1107 comments Ooh! Going out of topic here, but have you seen the movie "Enid"?


message 23: by Mandy (new)

Mandy (mandypants) I haven't seen it, but my middle name is Enid. Sorry. I just took off topic even farther off. Was it good? Something I need to netflix?


message 24: by Rachel (new)

Rachel | 1107 comments Mandy Enid...something. Whoaaa...

You could if you want to! It nearly made me cry. Enid Blyton was my hero as a little girl. She could write so many books in so little time, I thought she was superwoman! And this movie, well...this movie sort of disillusions you (me).


message 25: by Jaimie (new)

Jaimie (jez476) | 664 comments Jackie "the Librarian" wrote: "I don't mind Burton casting Helena in all his movies. She matches his sensibilities.

Lots of directors have favorite actors and actresses they like to use. Scorsese has been using Leonardo di C..."


I usually don't mind the nepotism in movies but I just can't stand her.


message 26: by Jaime (new)

Jaime | 158 comments RA...I went to buy my tickets Thursday night and it was sold out. Its quite unfortunate. Guess I will have to wait til the following weekend.


message 27: by smetchie (last edited Mar 01, 2010 04:37PM) (new)

smetchie | 4034 comments Jaimie wrote: "Jackie "the Librarian" wrote: "I don't mind Burton casting Helena in all his movies. She matches his sensibilities.

Lots of directors have favorite actors and actresses they like to use. Scorsese..."


Isn't Helena Bonham Carter supposed to be Tim Burton's muse or something?


message 28: by smetchie (new)

smetchie | 4034 comments Are they married? I knew they had kids together but I wasn't sure if they were married or not.


message 29: by Jaimie (new)

Jaimie (jez476) | 664 comments If she's his muse, what about the movies he did before she came along? And why was Planet of the Apes sucky until the end? (For me the reveal and the cliffhanger made the movie.)


message 30: by RandomAnthony (new)

RandomAnthony | 14536 comments I think I read somewhere they live in houses that are connected but separate.

That sounds pretty good to me sometimes.


message 31: by Matt (new)

Matt | 819 comments Jaimie: I think that he was involved with Lisa Marie prior to his relationship with Helena and I know that she was in some of his pre-Helena movies. Not sure if she ever achieved muse status or not...


message 32: by RandomAnthony (last edited Mar 05, 2010 05:37AM) (new)

RandomAnthony | 14536 comments Reviews seem mixed on AliceEbert gave it three stars, at least, and I usually trust him. I think I'm going tomorrow. I was going to go tonight with my middle child, but my wife wants to go, too, so now I have to wait for her.

Don't tell her I said that.


message 33: by Matt (new)

Matt | 819 comments I finished the book last weekend and then watched a couple of trailers on youtube. It sort of surprised me that the storyline of the movie appears to take some liberties to the point of being a sequel. Was I the last person to figure this out? Still want to see it once the crowds thin out...


Tim (Mole) The Gunslinger (Mole) This is a retort to way earlier bit I think J Depp is a great character actor he seems to become who he plays while say you watch Nicholas Cage his name changes and his parts but thats all that does and if he trys to act its cheesy as hell


message 35: by Sally, la reina (new)

Sally (mrsnolte) | 17319 comments Mod
I like that Tad is basing this on a couple of trailers he watched on youTube.


message 36: by Jaimie (new)

Jaimie (jez476) | 664 comments tadpole wrote: "Jaimie: I think that he was involved with Lisa Marie prior to his relationship with Helena and I know that she was in some of his pre-Helena movies. Not sure if she ever achieved muse status or not..."

Yeah, she was in four of his movies that I can think of off the top of my head: Mars Attacks, Ed Wood, Sleepy Hallow, and Planet of the Apes. But she always had lesser roles. My issue is that Helena has mostly had lead rolls in his films, except for Big Fish & Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. It's just too much of the same. As much as I love Johnny Depp I think I'm just over the same actors in Tim's movies. They're starting to blend in with one another for me.


message 37: by Sally, la reina (new)

Sally (mrsnolte) | 17319 comments Mod
I'm not a fan of referring to him as "Tim" - is he 14? Do we know him personally? Why the sudden familiarity?


message 38: by Félix (new)

Félix (habitseven) *nods in agreement*


message 39: by RandomAnthony (new)

RandomAnthony | 14536 comments I prefer "Timmy", or "Timeister" or "The Timinator".


message 40: by Sally, la reina (new)

Sally (mrsnolte) | 17319 comments Mod
Ah, for a second I thought we were talking about (the mole) Gunslinger.


message 41: by Misha (new)

Misha (ninthwanderer) From the interviews I've read, it does seem to be framed as a sequel to the original Carroll books, but one that tells an alternate version of the same events.

But I haven't watched any trailers on youtube. ;)

I'll probably go see the film, but I'm planning to wait a couple of weeks in the hopes of getting a less crowded theatre.


message 42: by RandomAnthony (new)

RandomAnthony | 14536 comments Was there a thread he didn't shit on today? I want to burn sage all around TC to purify the space.


message 43: by Sally, la reina (new)

Sally (mrsnolte) | 17319 comments Mod
Please do, RA. It was a frantic morning. Larry and Bun were amusingly calm about it.


message 44: by Félix (last edited Mar 05, 2010 02:54PM) (new)

Félix (habitseven) The Legend of Tim(the mole)Gunslinger. They still talk about him after all these years. Surpassed only by Gary the Great.


message 45: by Sally, la reina (new)

Sally (mrsnolte) | 17319 comments Mod
I really did think the Mole was Gary for a while there.


message 46: by Félix (new)

Félix (habitseven) No Gary is reformed. He's very subdued these days.


message 47: by Sally, la reina (new)

Sally (mrsnolte) | 17319 comments Mod
Until he stops taking his medication and becomes Tim.


message 48: by Félix (new)

Félix (habitseven) Hmmmmm ... there's a possibilty. No, Gary is a teacher. He reads real books and literature and stuff.


message 49: by RandomAnthony (new)

RandomAnthony | 14536 comments lights sage sticks, passes them around


message 50: by Jaimie (new)

Jaimie (jez476) | 664 comments Sally wrote: "I'm not a fan of referring to him as "Tim" - is he 14? Do we know him personally? Why the sudden familiarity?"

Cause it's easier than typing Tim Burton. Pure laziness. :-)


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