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message 1: by Amanda (new)

Amanda | 47 comments I just wanted to see what you guys had to say about the other men in Austen's stories. Everyone loves Mr. Darcy, and rightfully so, but what about the other guys. I am partial to Mr. Knightley and Captain Wentworth.


message 2: by [deleted user] (new)

I love Frederick Wentworth! He comes to realize that his wounded pride is keeping him from winning Anne, without the "slap in the face" that Darcy had to have. And such a letter! *swoon*

I am also partial to Brandon, owing in part to seeing him portrayed by Alan Rickman!


message 3: by SarahC, Austen Votary & Mods' Asst. (new)

SarahC (sarahcarmack) | 1473 comments Mod
One of the best things about Wentworth is that he really seemed to want to listen to Anne -- he was so tuned into her words. I just think that puts him over the top for me. Although the other men in Austen are pretty good listeners too. Austen must have loved good conversations between men and women.

So what IS our Alan Rickman up to these days? I would love to see him in something new.


message 4: by [deleted user] (new)

He has a voice part in the new Alice in Wonderland, and then Harry Potter. He also did "Bottle Shock," but I haven't seen it.


message 5: by SarahC, Austen Votary & Mods' Asst. (new)

SarahC (sarahcarmack) | 1473 comments Mod
I am looking forward to seeing Alice. I will look the other one up so I can actually see him in something (rather than just voice). I have to make a trip to Redbox, any suggestions? I know I am twirling off this actual thread!


message 6: by [deleted user] (new)

Let's take it over to the Tea Tray! :)


message 7: by [deleted user] (new)

Amanda wrote: "I just wanted to see what you guys had to say about the other men in Austen's stories. Everyone loves Mr. Darcy, and rightfully so, but what about the other guys. I am partial to Mr. Knightley an..."

Thanks for starting this thread. What do you like about your two "other" guys?


message 8: by Amanda (new)

Amanda | 47 comments I love Mr. Knighley's simple charm and manners. He loves Emma even through her faults. I know it freaks a lot of people out about his age but I think that mature men have their own kind of appeal. I loved how the gentleman that played in the most recent adaptation of Emma was portrayed. He also stared in Mansfield Park (the hollywoodized version). My favorite line from Knightly, "If I loved you any less, I might be able to talk about it more".

Captain Wentworth was my first Austen love. His letter to Anne at the end of Persuasion, made me almost fall out of my chair. I read the letter sometimes when I need a pick me up! The recent Captain Wentworth (new BBC version) was quit good looking but I do love the more realistic version with Amanda Root. His love prove that men and women can be constant and love always.


message 9: by Kim (new)

Kim | 181 comments Amanda wrote: "I love Mr. Knighley's simple charm and manners. He loves Emma even through her faults. I know it freaks a lot of people out about his age but I think that mature men have their own kind of appeal..."

I very much appreciate how you included that people freak out about the age differenes. Back then relationships weren't based on sex and age (like so many are today) they were based on status and wealth (and for those lucky enough love!)


message 10: by [deleted user] (new)

Amanda wrote: My favorite line from Knightly, "If I loved you any less, I might be able to talk about it more". That was very touching and so much in character with the actor's portrayal of Mr. Knightley.

Kim -- It is interesting to see how society's norms have changed. The only part that was "weird" to me was Knightley saying that he first fell in love with Emma when she was 13 (he was 29). He did, literally, watch her grow up! :)


message 11: by Kim (new)

Kim | 181 comments Jeannette wrote: "Amanda wrote: My favorite line from Knightly, "If I loved you any less, I might be able to talk about it more". That was very touching and so much in character with the actor's portrayal of Mr. K..."

True but I think people's lives were much shorter back then as well. People got married a lot younger so when it's all put in context for that period it's not strange but definitely is for us now. I can't imagine how I would feel if I was 13 and a guy was like hey I'm falling in love with you - let's get married. I'd be creeped out for sure!


message 12: by [deleted user] (new)

Yes! I also see that it had to be the well-to-do that married like that. With shorter lifespans a lot of the women in JA must have been left young-ish widows, similar to Mrs. Dashwood in S&S.


message 13: by Amanda (new)

Amanda | 47 comments Jeannette wrote: "Amanda wrote: My favorite line from Knightly, "If I loved you any less, I might be able to talk about it more". That was very touching and so much in character with the actor's portrayal of Mr. K..."

Remember that Lydia in P & P was merely 15 when she was married to Wickham and that was considered quit lucky to Mrs. Bennet! I was a little startled about this but he could have meant that he thought she was lovely and enchanting but not in a sexual sense.


message 14: by [deleted user] (new)

Wickham was after sex, definitely. Knightley wanted to marry this lovely young woman whom he had loved for years, but wanted to wait until she was mature enough to marry. That is so beautiful and sums up the difference between the two men.


message 15: by Amanda (new)

Amanda | 47 comments I totally agree. I often get the movies and books so mixed up but I loved in Emma when Knightly said something to Emma concerning her being such a good hostess at Donwell Abbey that people would think she was the mistress at Donwell. He was hinting to Emma and she was oblivious as usual!


message 16: by Margaret (new)

Margaret Metz | 112 comments I'm a Knightley fan too ~ and for all the same reasons. I also think that his love helped her become a better person.

I think that patience and kindness is something I like in Edmund from Mansfield Park as well. I know he isn't the dashing hero, but he has always been the quiet one who stood by her and saw her when nobody else did. That's a kind of romance that rivals a white horse a drawn sword any day.


message 17: by Amanda (new)

Amanda | 47 comments Lee wrote: "I'm a Knightley fan too ~ and for all the same reasons. I also think that his love helped her become a better person.

I think that patience and kindness is something I like in Edmund from Mansfie..."


I agree, I love Edmund too. I kind of wanted to slap him in the face though when he was blinded by Mary Crawford. But I'm so glad he saw right through her at the end.



message 18: by Margaret (new)

Margaret Metz | 112 comments Men are sometimes blind creatures aren't they? A pretty face (or today it's the whole body) and they sometimes lose all powers of reason. At least Edmund regained them.


message 19: by Shaun (new)

Shaun | 123 comments I have to say that I really liked the character of Mr. Knightley. I bought the DVD set since I missed the whole series when it was live on tv. That helped me with the age difference, but I thought that he was really looking out for Emma (although he didn't know that he was in love with her either!) and guiding her to be the person that she wants to be. I also liked Edmund too, but didn't feel that he was a "strong" a character as Mr. Knightley (my opinion). Edmund was too idealistic for me.


message 20: by [deleted user] (new)

Edmund was a bit more "romantic" versus Mr. Knightley who was more "pragmatic" or practical. I don't think Knightley would have let Mary Crawford turn his head!


message 21: by Amanda (new)

Amanda | 47 comments I would have loved to see Mary Crawford try to win over Knightley. That would have been funny. I think he would have been polite but would have turned her down in a second. I love in Emma when Mrs.
E was insisting on planning the strawberry picking at Donwell and Mr. Knighley put the slam down and said, the only person that will be doing the planning will be Mrs. Knightley, when there may be one. I love it!


message 22: by Teresa (new)

Teresa I personally have always loved Edmund. Yes, he has his head turned by Mary Crawford but I think it also made him realize what he had with Fanny and only makes him cherish her more.

Mr. Knightley has always loved Emma there is no transformation for him it is all about her. He just plugs away waiting for her.

I have also always liked Captain Wentworth for his coming around to his still loving Anne. It makes me want to sign every time.


message 23: by [deleted user] (new)

Yes, Frederick Wentworth is sigh-worthy... :)

I was thinking about Knightley. It is really apparent what a homebody he was. There weren't too many eligible young ladies in Highbury, but he seemed content to wait at least six years for Emma to grow up. He could have easily found a wife in London or Bath, most likely.


message 24: by SarahC, Austen Votary & Mods' Asst. (new)

SarahC (sarahcarmack) | 1473 comments Mod
In several places in Emma, Knightley seems to have good insight about people. Maybe that is a glimpse toward the fact that he has always had positive insight toward Emma, so subconsciously he knew he wanted to wait for her. It is a very sweet and charming setup really and something we can't really write about in modern society -- making it a little more love-story-ish. :-]


message 25: by Amanda (new)

Amanda | 47 comments Teresa wrote: "I personally have always loved Edmund. Yes, he has his head turned by Mary Crawford but I think it also made him realize what he had with Fanny and only makes him cherish her more.

Mr. Knightley h..."


I admire Edmund's courage to be who he is and what he wants to be. He has his heart set on the church and not because he will make a decent living but because that is what he feels his calling is. Most second sons at the time would enter the church to make the money. I also admire that Edmund had the courage tell Fanny to leave his father's house after her attempt to "make the best" out of Tom's sickness.


message 26: by Amanda (new)

Amanda | 47 comments Jeannette wrote: "Yes, Frederick Wentworth is sigh-worthy... :)

I was thinking about Knightley. It is really apparent what a homebody he was. There weren't too many eligible young ladies in Highbury, but he seeme..."


Especially with his fortune, Knightley was quit a catch. I believe that Knightley did not think about marriage very much until he realized that Emma was the one for him. I think he wanted Donwell to pass on to he nephew.


message 27: by Kim (new)

Kim | 181 comments I just watched Persuasion the other night and it reminded me how much I like Wentworth. Nobody ever discusses him. I like him a lot because he definitely begins the novel as a heartbroken man. No something that we're used to seeing in Austen's novels. I guess you can say Darcy is somewhat heartbroken, however we don't see him after Lizzie says no. The next time you see him he's a changed man and when he encounters Lizzie becomes hopeful. So I enjoy Wentworth because he's so different from the other male leads. Anyone agree/disagree?


message 28: by [deleted user] (new)

I agree Kim. I posted about Wentworth in message 2 (see above). He was definitely nursing a broken heart for 8+ years and was miserable in Anne's company, even if he acted as if he didn't care. It is beautiful to see him fall back in love with Anne when he realizes that both he and she have never really stopped loving each other.


message 29: by Amanda (new)

Amanda | 47 comments Kim wrote: "I just watched Persuasion the other night and it reminded me how much I like Wentworth. Nobody ever discusses him. I like him a lot because he definitely begins the novel as a heartbroken man. N..."

I love Wentworth for his constancy. He stayed true to Anne (we assume) for 8 years. He was exposed to the world, and a man with a fortune could have his pick. I like him all the better for his forgiving heart.

I wonder what you guys think of Anne? in my opinion, I think she is a most deserving heroine. She suffers in silence but has real emotion and depth.


message 30: by SarahC, Austen Votary & Mods' Asst. (new)

SarahC (sarahcarmack) | 1473 comments Mod
Wentworth and the whole structure of Persuasion is what attracted me to this story and my love for it has never slacked a bit. He and Anne with their inner emotions and conflict, constantly dealing with it and in such close contact through almost the whole novel. It is the most psychological of the Austen novels for me. The things they are confused about, the things they can't say to each other, the social constraints, the family stuff playing out around them. Brilliant Jane Austen!


message 31: by Kim (new)

Kim | 181 comments Amanda wrote: "Kim wrote: "I just watched Persuasion the other night and it reminded me how much I like Wentworth. Nobody ever discusses him. I like him a lot because he definitely begins the novel as a heartbr..."

I liked Anne a lot. Like you said she sufferes in silence and always put her family's wants before her own. Maybe not the best quality to have but I'm glad it worked out for her in the end. She deserves to be happy after everything she's gone through.


message 32: by [deleted user] (last edited Feb 23, 2010 07:22AM) (new)

I think Anne differs slightly in that she didn't always put her family's wants first, at least not in the utltimate: marriage. I imagine that Charles Musgrove was probably considered a suitable match, but she turned him down. She also manages to spurn Mr. Elliot, and accept Wentworth, something that she believed Lady Russell wouldn't approve of. She held out for her first love against all hope.


message 33: by Amanda (new)

Amanda | 47 comments Jeannette wrote: "I think Anne differs slightly in that she didn't always put her family's wants first, at least not in the utltimate: marriage. I imagine that Charles Musgrove was probably considered a suitable ma..."

I think Anne is the most mature heroine, not just in age, but in everything she does. Her patience with a life that constantly takes and takes and never gives back. I image the torture she went through being next to Wentworth knowing (or thinking) he could never forgive her. I think Anne is the most believable and realistic character.


message 34: by Kim (new)

Kim | 181 comments I'm not sure Musgrove was considered a suitable match. When Mary married him didn't her family keep their distance from her? As far as Mr. Elliot - he wouldn't have been a good match for her either because of what Mrs. Smith tells her about him courting both her and Mrs. Clay.


message 35: by SarahC, Austen Votary & Mods' Asst. (new)

SarahC (sarahcarmack) | 1473 comments Mod
I think that of Anne also. She kept true to herself but wouldn't have rebelled too much. She took care of herself and kind of quietly realized the the faults in her family and even Lady Russell, but didn't get sold by them. I think a lot of young women in her position would not have been too much more outspoken than that. And did anyone else get the feeling that she knew SHE was holding the family together -- she was kind of the silent head of the family?


message 36: by [deleted user] (new)

Anne and Frederick, mature people still hoping to find love after disappointment -- this makes Persuasion my favorite book.


message 37: by Amanda (new)

Amanda | 47 comments Sarah wrote: "I think that of Anne also. She kept true to herself but wouldn't have rebelled too much. She took care of herself and kind of quietly realized the the faults in her family and even Lady Russell, ..."

She was the most responsible person in her family and if her advise would have been taken her family would not have been in the predicament that they were in. I think that Anne takes control when she is able, She was smart enough to do things that were in her control to keep things together.

Anyone else love the scene when Anne runs out of the theater after Wentworth. I think that took a lot of courage. She knew she would be stared at and looks would be given but she was going to catch that chance to speak.


message 38: by Stephanie (last edited Feb 23, 2010 07:43AM) (new)

Stephanie | 7 comments I love Captain Wentworth as well. Your heart breaks for him just as much as for Anne. You know that he is suffering just as much, but he still has that apprehension of possibly getting rejected again. That's why is so distant from Anne. And his letter is by far the best letter I have ever read in a novel.

I also love Henry Tilney from Northanger Abbey. He is so different from other Austen men. He has a sense of humor, which most Austen men don't have much of. He's so charming, you can't help but fall for him.


message 39: by SarahC, Austen Votary & Mods' Asst. (new)

SarahC (sarahcarmack) | 1473 comments Mod
Amanda wrote: "Sarah wrote: "I think that of Anne also. She kept true to herself but wouldn't have rebelled too much. She took care of herself and kind of quietly realized the the faults in her family and even ..."


***************Persuasion Spoiler***********

Amanda, that is such a great part of the story. Is it concert? theater? I know you must mean the same one though. She has been in the same places with him all through the novel and she just wants to be near him that night and find out what he is really feeling. She KNOWS at this point, but just needs a confirmation (I think). And of course he in reality is only in Bath because of her. Does literature get any better than this?


message 40: by Grace (new)

Grace (graycie) | 15 comments Captain Wentworth is my favorite of the Austen Men.
When I watch Persuasion (with Ciaran Hinds), I close my eyes at the letter part and just listen to those beautiful words. That is the best love letter I have ever read.
I also like Henry Tilney for his humour.


message 41: by Amanda (new)

Amanda | 47 comments Sarah wrote: "Amanda wrote: "Sarah wrote: "I think that of Anne also. She kept true to herself but wouldn't have rebelled too much. She took care of herself and kind of quietly realized the the faults in her f..."

Ah, you are right, it is a concert, an italian opera, I think. I sometimes imagine Jane as Anne. Later in her life, suffering many disappointments. I wish someone could have dashed to save her.


message 42: by Amanda (new)

Amanda | 47 comments Stephanie wrote: "I love Captain Wentworth as well. Your heart breaks for him just as much as for Anne. You know that he is suffering just as much, but he still has that apprehension of possibly getting rejected aga..."

Henry Tilney makes me laugh. I used to get frustrated with him for poking fun at Catherine but I think after a couple of readings I have realized that it is just his light hearted personality. I do love him for his integrity. It is amazing how he and Elinor turned out coming from such a dreadful family.


message 43: by Kim (last edited Feb 23, 2010 09:01AM) (new)

Kim | 181 comments I totally agree. That's one thing I've always liked about most of Austen's books. There is always a character that no matter how rude, poor, vulgar or whatever their family is they turn out nothing like them. Re: Bingley (his sisters are horrible); Jane and Lizzie (thank god their not like Mrs. Bennett!); Henry and Eleanor (they're both so warm, very unlike their father); Anne (she's not as obsessed with money and power like her father and sister Elizabeth are); I could keep going but I think you get my point!


message 44: by [deleted user] (new)

The scene in the 2008 film, where Anne chases after Wentworth at the concert: I think that was a Mozart piece. It doesn't happen in the book. Anne seeks him out at the concert and finds him eventually, but the 2008 film added all sorts of running about that wasn't considered proper for the time. I do remember that Anne was called upon to translate Italian for Mr. Elliot during the concert (in the book). The scenes get jumbled sometimes! :)


message 45: by [deleted user] (new)

I am looking forward to next month's discussion of Northanger Abbey. It has been a while for me, and I can only recall the movie version of Henry Tilney (I liked the portrayal very much).


message 46: by Amanda (new)

Amanda | 47 comments Jeannette wrote: "The scene in the 2008 film, where Anne chases after Wentworth at the concert: I think that was a Mozart piece. It doesn't happen in the book. Anne seeks him out at the concert and finds him event..."

I always get the scenes from the films and books mixed up. Its so easy to get your Austen fix fast from a movie, while reading the book takes a bit. I've read all the books at least twice but I still get them mixed up.


message 47: by [deleted user] (new)

So do I! I often go get the book before making a comment about it, just so I don't get the two mixed up. I did this quite a bit during the Emma discussion.

But, the films are so wonderful as an addition to the story. I love the scene with Wentworth and Harville out on the Cob, discussing Anne. The scene in the book is completely different. Both scenes are moving in their own way.


message 48: by Stephanie (new)

Stephanie | 7 comments Amanda wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "I love Captain Wentworth as well. Your heart breaks for him just as much as for Anne. You know that he is suffering just as much, but he still has that apprehension of possibly ge..."

I can understand how some people would get frustrated at Henry for kind of making fun of Catherine, but I kind of saw it as he was trying to teach her, because she is so naive. I think he was just trying to go about it in a kind of joking manner and not seem to harsh, not like Mr. Knightley in Emma. He seems to yell at Emma for misbehaving or for sticking her nose in other people's business. The only time Henry really "yells" at Catherine is when she accuses his father of killing his mother, which is completely understandable on his part. Henry does try to include humor in everything he says to Catherine, so to me, he didn't come off as being mean, rather just trying to make her better informed of the real world.


message 49: by Shaun (new)

Shaun | 123 comments Sigh, I'm jealous, I still haven't read Persuasion or Northanger Abbey, but they are next! I'll re-read the thread on the men and weigh in when I'm though!


message 50: by [deleted user] (new)

We'll start Northanger Abbey (discussing it) on March 5. Hope you will join us then.


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